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PVE only PUGs kill PVP matches, solutions needed

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  • edited October 2016
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  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User
    Help people with their builds, treat them with respect by not name calling them name and trade a few caps. Pvp is the way it is right now... not because of boons or GH levels. Its premades that talk smack to pugs or pvers. People need to grow up. We all did this to ourselves some more then others of course.

    They are new to pvp give them a break. When you first started out you weren't the best player either probably. They will get better with practice. Don't scare them off or make them not to play so we can keep playing with the same 50-100 people.

    -Trent the Barbarian
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • ajlir#7970 ajlir Member Posts: 367 Arc User

    Help people with their builds, treat them with respect by not name calling them name and trade a few caps. Pvp is the way it is right now... not because of boons or GH levels. Its premades that talk smack to pugs or pvers. People need to grow up. We all did this to ourselves some more then others of course.

    They are new to pvp give them a break. When you first started out you weren't the best player either probably. They will get better with practice. Don't scare them off or make them not to play so we can keep playing with the same 50-100 people.

    -Trent the Barbarian

    I'm sorry but it's not going to work. People generally don't do anything for other people for free. They are toxic to exert dominance and feel good about themselves. That's the reward for being at the top.

    It'll just go back to the same old "git gud or gtfo" environment.
  • rhodahrhodah Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 117 Arc User
    I play since beta and I worked hard to get good gear. In every game I played there was an advantage for players with good gear. And you seriously wanna remove that advantage? Cryptic should make good gear available for all players more easily. My guild worked hard to achieve GH 20. And now suddenly boons should be removed in PVP? Never.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    clonkyo1 said:

    SOmetimes is a loss but other times i have seen the premade team to lose the match.

    Yes, but seems that players like defiantone, Pando and so on don't even think that it could be archive by a "pug but geared team" at all. It's obvious that UNDERGEARED pugs are a problem AS LONG as "gear gap" exists. If no one of them is watching this problem, then, they should quit playing PvP at all.
    EXACTLY.

    Guys, I keep saying this. I dont know how many of you played in the early days, like modules 0-2 were FANTASTIC and we had 10x the number of premades running around and guess what, PUG groups OFTEN WON.

    What has changed between then and now?

    More boons, SH boons, Mount bonuses, Artifacts, artifact equipment, tenacity.


    ALL those things contribute to a now MASSIVE gear gap between PVE players and PVP players.

    Back in those early days, you didnt have ANY artifacts (thousands of stats). You had 2 modules of boons (compared to today with more thousands of stats). You didnt have artifact gear and the BIS gear was PVE GEAR... You didnt have SH boons, you didnt have tenacity - forcing players to have TWO sets of gear and basically shunning the PVE crowd from PVP.


    THIS is what is wrong with PVP. Not premades, not pugs.... GEAR.

    They need to remove all mount bonuses and boons from PVP. That is the FIRST step in fixing it. They need to then remove tenacity on gear and just give EVERY player a BASE "damage resist, ARP resist and Control resist" on theri character sheet and yes, REMOVE crit suppression.

    Something like:
    80% Damage Resist
    75% ARP resist
    35% control resist
    (these are just rough suggestions).


    NOW you wont have a massive gear gap between PVE and PVP. Now you wont have 2.5k or 3k casual or PUGs who cant even 5v1 a BIS player. Will they still have a hard time? YES. But it will be MUCH easier for them to compete, where as now they stand ZERO chance.
  • sinjen12sinjen12 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    easy fix op abilities need to be toned down agianst players. make it so power and all other stats do not work in pvp only allow tennacity stats to work make entire new stat for each one tenacity power , crit etc and base tanacity score reduces damage vrs players and gives a base amount of of reduction depending on type of armor metal cloth leather chainmetal . do not let non pvp boons effect pvp char in pvp. and non pvp enchantments armor reinforce etc etc do not work in pvp. make all non pvp weapons have a base damage score of 1 in pvp matchs at lvl 10 everyone gets a green set of pvp gear thats stats go up as u level and make em all artifacts only upgradeable by a new pvp only refine stone and once item is mythic they can use that item as a coin to trade in for new set that is artifact piece that has to be leveled up agian but base stats at green are equal or slight better than the one they traded for this forces pvpers to have to work hard for what they got instead of being in super large guilds that help them get the best of the best and it also allows people who hate pve to not have to play pve and wouldnt give creditcard warriors a edge. and it would increase the sales of the pvp bonus things that gives u dbl glory for pvp. also sell enchants on pvp vendors and all of pvp stuff is bind to character not to account. and weapon enchants and all enchants can have a time limit on em so that it keeps people from building up massive amounts of glory
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  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    Making Dom only open every few hours is also an option. Force everyone to have to queue at a certain time.

    Help people with their builds, treat them with respect by not name calling them name and trade a few caps. Pvp is the way it is right now... not because of boons or GH levels. Its premades that talk smack to pugs or pvers. People need to grow up. We all did this to ourselves some more then others of course.

    They are new to pvp give them a break. When you first started out you weren't the best player either probably. They will get better with practice. Don't scare them off or make them not to play so we can keep playing with the same 50-100 people.

    -Trent the Barbarian

    I'm sorry but it's not going to work. People generally don't do anything for other people for free. They are toxic to exert dominance and feel good about themselves. That's the reward for being at the top.

    It'll just go back to the same old "git gud or gtfo" environment.
    Not everyone at the top is a prick especially on "other consoles" I help people all the time in dom! You would be surprised how many people pick up pvp on a daily basis if you only treated them well. I've given out my build in its entirety and people still play to this day, although alot of people can't play a SM gwf.. at least I can say I tried. Alot of people can't even do that!

    The people I run into all the time know they are going to get smashed. But they know for sure I'll be nice and not rub it in. So you know what? They que back up to fight me! Really its that simple if you want people to play remember its just a game. No one here is playing this game for money or a trophy this ain't MLG.
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User

    Making Dom only open every few hours is also an option. Force everyone to have to queue at a certain time.

    You know, I think it was a mistake to get rid of the "hourly events" that was something unique to the game and gave people more incentive to do things at different times. I thought Dungeon Delves was cool, as well as the extra glory hour...

    I dont see them going BACK on something they removed like this, but I think that was one small factor in all of this. Doing "events" really boosts peoples willingness to play.

    Even with that though, it still doesnt address the issue of "average" players getting STOMPED by BIS players - in or out of a premade.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    Very easy: remove RAD from PvP. You said it.

    Also: people PvP for RAD only because current PvP system is 9/10 a stomp by partial or (more rarely) full premades. Playing PvP now is pointless. It's not even playing. You join, you see if you got lucky and didn't meet a partial premade of BiS PvPers, then you either fight or spend the rest of the game tradecapping or waiting at campfire.

    What PvP should reward is, for example, boosts and stuff you can use in PvP. The more you win, the better you perform, the stronger you get. When you lose, you get weaker. Out of PvP, you get no benefits.

    Now only people interested in PvP would play PvP, and stompers would have less players to farm. Also no more bots in PvP.

    Obviously before this you need a very solid matchmaking to avoid stompers and premades farming PvP to get stronger and stomp even more in the future.
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  • metikulousmetikulous Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    pando83 said:

    Very easy: remove RAD from PvP. You said it.

    Also: people PvP for RAD only because current PvP system is 9/10 a stomp by partial or (more rarely) full premades. Playing PvP now is pointless. It's not even playing. You join, you see if you got lucky and didn't meet a partial premade of BiS PvPers, then you either fight or spend the rest of the game tradecapping or waiting at campfire.

    What PvP should reward is, for example, boosts and stuff you can use in PvP. The more you win, the better you perform, the stronger you get. When you lose, you get weaker. Out of PvP, you get no benefits.

    Now only people interested in PvP would play PvP, and stompers would have less players to farm. Also no more bots in PvP.

    Obviously before this you need a very solid matchmaking to avoid stompers and premades farming PvP to get stronger and stomp even more in the future.

    No, rewards should be increased for pvp.

    AD gets people in the door and hopefully increases or at least maintains pvp population. More pvp specific rewards such as exclusive skins or something that would hopefully make people want to improve and be more competitive would be nice as well. Maybe a ladder season each module where you have to be BIS and ultra competitive to get unique titles and gear sets/skins/mounts/whatever.

    Better matchmaking for gear gap would solve most problems. I don't mind facing groups of people coordinated people if I'm solo queuing because I could do the same too. It's when one team severely out gears another that it becomes less fun.


  • xxxhansolxxxxxxhansolxxx Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    Matchmaking by IL is not really a solution. My main is close go 4k, but totally built for PVE. If I go PVP and face a team of PVPers of 3k+ IL, I'm totally useless, even tho my IL is high. A ranked matchmaking system sound like a better idea to me, both for smaller players and for Big PVPers.
  • ionvnegativoionvnegativo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    rhodah said:

    I play since beta and I worked hard to get good gear. In every game I played there was an advantage for players with good gear. And you seriously wanna remove that advantage? Cryptic should make good gear available for all players more easily. My guild worked hard to achieve GH 20. And now suddenly boons should be removed in PVP? Never.

    That "advantage" is what killed pvp in this game in the long term....geared ppl just keep denying that fact.

    The pvp polulation right now is no more than 60-80 "active" players, just check the first 4 pages of top killers in leaderboard to see how many matches that ppl have played in the last mod....ppl quit because is not worth trying to fight against those "advantages", i am in the page 2 of that stupid top killers in leaderboard only by pug'ing with my crappy 3,3k TR and im also quitting pvp because for ppl that cant reach that "advantages" the game is boring and a total waste of time.

    The big pvp boys, the pvp "pros", killed this game by taking advantages over the vast mayority of ppl. Gear gap must be removed.
    Put some basic armor, go solo queue and try to fight a premade with 5 lions(i mean all the stuff that has been used since the very begining) 10 times in a row for 3 years, then you will understand how those "advantages" made ppl to quit.

    Wanna keep those advantages???, boons, mounts, high level enchants, etc, OK fine you earned/paid for them, keep with that mentality, but expect as well to play alone or at most with the same 10 ppl (THIS IS ALREADY HAPPENING FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!), because at the end of the day the arena will by empty.

    Believing pvp is only for the pvp high gear pros, doomed this game.
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  • goodyearbaddaygoodyearbadday Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    macjae said:

    This is so one-sided. PvP people can play PvE and not the other way around?

    Maybe I should kick people who wears tenacity gear, am I doing this right?

    No one is saying PvE players shouldn't be allowed to play PvP. The problem is that there are PvE players that join PvP matches and don't play. They do just enough to get the consolation reward, then go AFK.

    The equivalent in PvE is someone standing AFK for a whole dungeon run and showing up to collect the loot after each boss, doing the bare minimum to do so. And then causing the whole run to fail at the final boss by not doing anything. If someone behaves like that in a dungeon run, that is an entirely valid reason to kick them.

    The topic isn't a particular breed of player in general, but a particular kind of behavior that some players engage in. Not every PvE player does this; some will do their best to contribute to the team, racking up dozens of deaths.

    It's like telling normal motorcycles should only be used in paved roads but mountain bikes can be used in both off-roads and paved.

    That's how the developers designed tenacity gear, unfortunately -- PvP has an additional, required stat on gear and you're going to die like a wet paper bag without it. PvE doesn't. So you can use PvP gear for PvE and perform alright (though slightly behind equivalent PvE gear), but if you use PvE gear in PvP you get shredded.

    This is something they should change, as it's making it extremely hard to casually pick up a PvP match now and then.
    This is a really weak argument. Tenacity is literally the least of the causes of the gear gap between BIS, end-game PvP'ers & PUG's. Is 800 - 1200 tenacity gonna help a toon survive encountering a player with r12 enchants? when all they have are r7 -r8? I don't think so. Is tenacity gonna save a lvl 5 - 7 guild member from a lvl 10+ guild member? probably not.
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  • goodyearbaddaygoodyearbadday Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    clonkyo1 said:

    SOmetimes is a loss but other times i have seen the premade team to lose the match.

    Yes, but seems that players like defiantone, Pando and so on don't even think that it could be archive by a "pug but geared team" at all. It's obvious that UNDERGEARED pugs are a problem AS LONG as "gear gap" exists. If no one of them is watching this problem, then, they should quit playing PvP at all.
    Undergeared PUG's quit SH siege.... now it's dead. Undergeared Pug's quit Gauntylgrym.... now it's dead. Are you SURE you want the PUG' to quit domination too?
  • ionvnegativoionvnegativo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User


    Undergeared PUG's quit SH siege.... now it's dead. Undergeared Pug's quit Gauntylgrym.... now it's dead.

    this is true.

  • edited October 2016
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  • drewhayesdrewhayes Member Posts: 101 Arc User
    macjae said:

    This is so one-sided. PvP people can play PvE and not the other way around?

    Maybe I should kick people who wears tenacity gear, am I doing this right?

    No one is saying PvE players shouldn't be allowed to play PvP. The problem is that there are PvE players that join PvP matches and don't play. They do just enough to get the consolation reward, then go AFK.

    The equivalent in PvE is someone standing AFK for a whole dungeon run and showing up to collect the loot after each boss, doing the bare minimum to do so. And then causing the whole run to fail at the final boss by not doing anything. If someone behaves like that in a dungeon run, that is an entirely valid reason to kick them.

    The topic isn't a particular breed of player in general, but a particular kind of behavior that some players engage in. Not every PvE player does this; some will do their best to contribute to the team, racking up dozens of deaths.

    It's like telling normal motorcycles should only be used in paved roads but mountain bikes can be used in both off-roads and paved.

    That's how the developers designed tenacity gear, unfortunately -- PvP has an additional, required stat on gear and you're going to die like a wet paper bag without it. PvE doesn't. So you can use PvP gear for PvE and perform alright (though slightly behind equivalent PvE gear), but if you use PvE gear in PvP you get shredded.

    This is something they should change, as it's making it extremely hard to casually pick up a PvP match now and then.
    Actually, there are some people that are saying that PVE oriented players shouldn't be allowed to PvP. Which is really silly. How do you get good @ pVP? Get PvP gear. How do you get PvP gear? Play PvP. Don't have PvP gear? NO pVp for you! Le sigh.

    Your analogy could use a little work. A PUG in PvP is like a Lvl 60 toon that accidently ended up in ETOS. After getting one shot by trash mobs a half dozen times, there is not much point trying to finish the dungeoun. Unfortunately, unlike PVE, if I quit a PvP match because I can't compete.... there are no rewards, so I don't get any better. ... and I get stuck with a leaver penalty. I have seen a few high end PvP players complain because it can take them up to an hour to find a team that they are evenly matched with. That must be a nice problem to have. It has been weeks since I met an evenly matched team. Before the solo-queue, it had been months.

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