test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Clearing up some misconceptions with regards to how debuffs work:
thefabricant
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
Comments
Coming in a lockbox in mod 10:
On a serious note, thank you for the clear explanation of how debuffs work. I can see why you are concerned with the way the developers presented the upcoming retraction of the older sets, since there are many other areas that need to be addressed. Let's hope this is just the first of many corrections.
Rather, some of the currently overpowered buff/debuff interactions built into certain classes, items and companions could potentially trivialize new content before its even released. Therefore alongside the removal of mod5 set bonuses the aforementioned debuffs need to be looked at as well and adjusted accordingly. Not just the gear, not just the buffs/debuffs, but BOTH equally.
I have always maintained that many of the buffs/debuffs in this game are immensely strong, far too strong for their own good and that gameplay balance (and scaling) suffers for it.
Remember that time you said (the devs), "We cant really work on introducing new PVP content until we balance the classes". Well why doesn't that same logic apply to PVE content? I know your working on it, but 'within the year' may not be good enough.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12889171
Especially this part: In other words: removing a few lines in a database: 2 minutes. Reworking a fundamental part of the game engine: weeks if not months. Weeks of programmers time don't appear magically. On the other hand, removing the set bonuses took no resources from that task. For those still upset, read the quote again.
It's also implicit that cryptic is testing the waters with this change. If all the devs get is complaints, you can be sure nothing else will ever happen. There's a time for vigilance and a time for supporting. It's clearly time to support them if you don't like buffs stacking.
Checking at the moemnt the masks fell. SOmeone mentioned before the pieces are limited and now looking in auction house i can see 10 helmets panicked poeple trying to sell!
1. Regardless of the sets being OP or not OP according to formulas being presented after the announcement, the sets got that reputation right here on these forums and build threads by the players not the devs.
2. These sets go for ~10m AD a piece, and according to the trade house the same players always appear to be profiting from their sale. I'm not going to speculate why this is, but it leads me to this point. If the sets only provide a trivial buff to damage does it make any kind of sense that it is being passed around for 40-60 million AD in game or $$$ outside of the game via 3rd party transactions? To me that's a serious issue and it should be to you to being that you mathed it out and discovered the buff is a non issue.
3. The fact that other items in the game are OP and should be looked at brings up a good point but doesn't really apply here. There's always been broken mechanics in this game. They usually get patched but not nearly fast enough. When this happens there's always backlash from the public. You can't leave things like LM set broken for a year and then patch it it's happening again now with the Orcus set, the token, and others. The players get used to it and then they patch it.
4. This is just my opinion/speculation and this has a lot to do with 2. but I've noticed over the years that nothing makes Cryptic get off their rears like losing a $. They introduced new sets in game that can be purchased with trade bars. Trade bars are obtained by opening chests. Chests opened by keys, keys obtained by $$ or ZaX. Either method requires in game economy to flow within the confines of the game. However with HV, KV, HP sets you have massive amounts of currency changing hands for 2 year old items by a small group of players both inside and outside of the game for a trivial amount of gains perpetuated by the players themselves through the forums. It all ties together. It's ugly, and they took way too long to address it as usual.
It's time these items go away. However I do agree with you that there's plenty of OP stuff in the game that needs fixing but it's my opinion that this has more to do with some other issue not related to their benefits. Cryptic is just being Cryptic about it.
If you're confident that the bonus to those sets are so minor then wouldn't it be beneficial to remove them given that class guides, build threads, and what have you are leading people to believe that the gear is OP and the prices are justified? Also why wait to expose these misconceptions til after they announce their removal from the game? Couldn't you have exposed this a long time ago?
As for the formula, we simplified it into 2 parts. It does vary depending on monster level, but all that really matters is 70-72 and 73, so that was what is included. The great part about this though, is you can test this formula, you go out and test a hypothetical situation, then plug the values for the hypothetical situation into the equation and compare observed result to predicted value. You should find 100% accuracy.
Everything is being looked at. It's just the fact that the sets (as the tip of the iceberg) were incredibly easy to fix, as well as an important variable to remove from the equation.
Everyone's going all chicken little on "They aren't addressing the real problem!!!!" without realizing they actually are in process of doing just that.
Wouldn't the better approach be adding content that allows for players to be challenged while using the things that have been in the game (bondings, companion gear, buffs/debuffs etc)? Just taking away and only adding one new dungeon isn't good game design IMO.
I'm fine with removing these set boni, since they're no longer accessible. I'm talking about the other mechanics that people have spent a LOT of time grinding for and money purchasing. They keep doing nerfs with nothing of substance being added then they'll have a balance game with no one playing it...
The irony here is the ones being most vocal against these changes, due to them feeling other changes are higher priority, are shooting themselves in the foot. More difficult changes will be less likely to happen if there is a significant backlash over this simple one.
ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF MOD 5 SETS
I’m not crying because they nerf mod 5 sets. I personally hate that new players don’t have access to legacy items, so I’m not against this removal. On the other hand, I feel very sorry for the people who bought these sets. One of my friend bought it few weeks ago and you can imagine how much he spent. The fact is that I have serious doubts that they know what they should fix. I mean, if you know that Token is bugged and that it’s a very rare item, why do you decide to put it in the next lockbox as a rare reward? It’s obvious that many people will use it and invest AD to refine it. That’s why I shout, because I reported this and other things several times, but I have the impression that they still aren’t aware of certain stuff. I’m sure they know about CS and Tyrannical Curse, but they are hard to fix.
Let’s say that when I wrote those posts I exploded, but not because of the removal, just because when I try to explain something to the community they often tell me I’m saying HAMSTER, I’m lying, or they just ignore me. Usually I’m a very quiet person and I lose fights against people that clearly haven’t tested anything. So yeah, I took it personally and that was a mistake by my side.
ABOUT THE HP SET
HP set is overrated. It’s better than new sets in T1 contents and if the allies don’t use bondings, but with the new sets you can easily gain more or less 5k additional Power and if you re AC you can transfer to your allies 5000*0,75*3,85 (1 hitting directly the allies + 2,85 through allies’ bondings r12). They are situational and there isn’t such a difference when you run CN and FBI.
ABOUT THE HV SET
CWs aren’t meant to be full supporter and they can’t be as effective as DCs, so they have to use all what they can. HV set isn’t mitigated by DR and it is the only option for a debuffer CW. It’s helpful, but it doesn’t mean that the parties I run with are particularly slowed down without it.
ABOUT THE FABLED AND KC SETS
I had no chance to actually test them, but as far as I know Fabled is broken, while KC is nothing special.
ABOUT MY SPREADSHEET
I’m still working on it, there are probably typos, mistakes and missing stuff. I managed to finish the overall formula only few days ago and I’m still checking it. For now it seems correct, let’s hope that I won’t have bad surprises.
We can consider the effectiveness given by enemy’s DR and attacker’s RI as the “base effectiveness”. Dread enchantment is added to this base effectiveness and that’s why it repeats several times in the formula, slightly increasing the effectiveness of some categories of debuffs (btw thanks to falkon84 that helped me with it).
DR debuffs are additive with the base effectiveness, while DEF debuffs are multiplicative. This means that, if our RI isn’t capped and the effectiveness is below 100%, DEF debuffs are less effective.
DR2 and DEF2 debuffs are subjected to a further mitigation that depends on enemy’s DR and level (mob’s level affects these debuffs if it’s 3 more than player’s level).
DR debuffs are additive with other DR debuffs, DEF debuffs are additive with DEF debuffs, Mutipliers debuffs are multiplicative with every debuff.
Btw DR and DEF are just two random names for these categories, don’t look for a particularly meaning for them.
And another rework that come again will nerf supporters to the ground...
I did not however, think it was game breaking, or extra cheesy, Its not the Chromatic storm token, or the ambush drake, its not even CS or TT..
I think the point is, you have to always start at the MOST game breaking issues and go down, you dont start at the bottom and go up.. that will not be balanced at all.
Every time you remove things like multi WOL sharing and super uncapped ITF fixes, then you go down the list and fix the next game breaking HAMSTER.
This is the only real way to ensure balance. When you just remove sets to appease poeple, it really does nothing.
However, whatever at this point, I knew it was coming. Sadly I wont be doing mod 10 content and the garbage HAMSTER they are throwing at us, so I will sit around in dragonflight, until such a time as those morons get some sort of clue as to what is a acceptable grind.