thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
This won't work, it would only be an anti QoL change to the game and atm we have plenty of those.
Why won't it work? For 2 reasons:
1) Players could list an obscure item that has no value for a specific high price. The bots won't be able to see the players name, but the price would be so unique that they would know that it is the person they are selling to. Remember, when the bots are trading with players, they are communicating in some way outside the game.
2) The bots could simply trade items rather than AD. Say a player wanted to buy 1 mil AD to buy a P.PF, instead of the bot selling them 1 mil AD, the bot could just trade a P.PF with them in game It cuts out the double buying. Most of the stuff a player would buy for AD, they could buy from the third party directly and then do an in game trade.
All this idea does is makes the AH less user friendly. I for 1 like to know who I am buying from, or who is the idiot who undercuts by half an items value.
They are putting an awful lot of time and effort in to something that an In Game GM, paid minimum wage, could handle in a few seconds.
You could even recruit players to do this, though I don't know how that works anymore (I remember one gaming company was sued because volunteers weren't paid).
1 person logged in to PE could ban a thousand accounts a day. Would they come back? Sure. They would be restricted to the new rules, and they would have to spend the time creating the accounts and leveling the toons. I don't care how many people are trying to do it, a few dedicated people banning accounts WOULD be able to outrun any number of botters trying to get in eventually.
2-3 minimum wage employees working 8 hours a day, would cost them about 60k a year. Pretty sure they make that on key sales alone.
But, they wont do it and will continue removing pieces of the game to prevent botting, which is like fixing a damaged road by closing it.
This one seems like a really sensible idea, idk if you played or heard about the League of Legends' Tribunal? Nowadays is closed coz Riot decided that atm it would be better if they handle this things on their own, but back then the Tribunal was a comprehensive collection of reports made by players against other players, you were handed a chat log and the reports written by the people reporting, then you had 3 options (Guilty, Not Guilty, Skip) so that way you may choose if said ppl deserved to be punished by the developer or not. Also this feature was available to everyone on the webpage of the game, so everyone could access and participate, even from their phones.
With this game you only need a sample of like 5 min of chat to notice if someone was spamming or not, the whole match in PvP if someone reported another player, something like that... The Tribunal also had some little rewards, maybe as "payment" for your services you could be awarded like 1 Zen every time you judged the player 'fairly'. It's by no means a new system, and it could prove to be useful for this kind of thing.
"Tribunal" is kind of "griefing", there is a group may have hiunded or stalking some victim that they dont like or for some reason to pick on. that victim could just went to bathroom for 2-3 mins, or make some coffee when they are not in combat or some unexpected phone calls.
so, i dont like it, and it sound like the gestipo griefers who may driving others from the game. that why they shut down and do thier own investigations.
But this could be only to prevent spammers, I don't think the Tribunal was that a terrible idea from Riot, and at this point NW could use some help in getting rid of this third party spammers.
They are putting an awful lot of time and effort in to something that an In Game GM, paid minimum wage, could handle in a few seconds.[...]
If you are interested, take a cup of tea and do a search for keywords: gamemaster, abuse. And, minimum wage employees might be tempted to increase income. Collaborating with or even start up a gold selling business could do it, couldn't it?
While it's good idea in general, it limit actual players helping each other. I often post some trash item, that friend of mine will buy and then we trade actual item. I don't want any1 else to buy it at reduced price... it's often non profit trade. As member of large guild there is often a need of items from Wondorous Bazar that as lvl12 VIP user I have access at reduced cost and I often buy items like companions or SMoPs for friends. Unless we have a way to trade AD in-game with other guild members I will not support this idea.
If someone is trying to help out a friend by buying something from them in the Auction House, wouldn't that friend be able to talk to their friend and tell them what specific item is being offered and what the price is?
It doesn't seem like not having names listed by the item in the Auction House would be that much of a problem.
If as you say, you buy something at "a reduced price", and want to sell that item to a specific player, there is nothing to keep someone else, other than that friend from purchasing it anyway, regardless of your only wanting wanting to sell it to that person.
So again it doesn't seem like not having names listed by the item in the Auction House would be that much of a problem.
If the goal is to just buy something from a friend to give them the currency (ADs) they need, does it really matter if you buy it from them in the Auction House or someone else does?
Once again it doesn't seem like not having names listed by the item in the Auction House would be that much of a problem.
So why exactly is it a bad idea to not have the names of the seller listed with the items for sale in the Auction House?
This won't work, it would only be an anti QoL change to the game and atm we have plenty of those.
Why won't it work? For 2 reasons:
1) Players could list an obscure item that has no value for a specific high price. The bots won't be able to see the players name, but the price would be so unique that they would know that it is the person they are selling to. Remember, when the bots are trading with players, they are communicating in some way outside the game.
2) The bots could simply trade items rather than AD. Say a player wanted to buy 1 mil AD to buy a P.PF, instead of the bot selling them 1 mil AD, the bot could just trade a P.PF with them in game It cuts out the double buying. Most of the stuff a player would buy for AD, they could buy from the third party directly and then do an in game trade.
All this idea does is makes the AH less user friendly. I for 1 like to know who I am buying from, or who is the idiot who undercuts by half an items value.
Really?
No one would get the impression there was something 'fishy' going on if a seller offers a single minor healing potion or another usually inexpensive item for 1,000,000 ADs (the going price for a single purchase of ADs from a third party vendor if what I've read from the persistent spammers in the game is correct) in the Auction House.
As for selling actual in game items in the Auction House, without the attached name to the item, no one purchasing that item would know if it came from a third party vendor or an actual player in the game players would be inclined to purchase items solely if the price of that item seemed reasonable to them... which has the potential of seriously cutting into the profits for those third party vendors and possibly even discouraging them from trying to sell items in the Auction House.
As for wanting to know who undercuts your price for a listed item in the Auction House... it's a free market system and people can sell - or buy what ever they want for any price they want, knowing who might be selling an item for cheaper than what you listed it serves no purpose that I can think of.
Or at least that would be my thoughts on the topic.
Just to note, with the usual blind AH style, when you buy something you don't get to pick which item you buy... you just buy the lowest priced item and that's that.
So no, you couldn't go buy the gold sellers auction with a specific value, with my proposal you go to the AH and find what you want, then press Buy, the system sells you the lowest priced one and you never know who sold it to you. It arrives in your mailbox as usual, and the seller gets the money, but there really is no need for the two of you to know who each other are.
It is sort of like the ZAX but for items. This idea isn't totally unique, there are other games implementing similar ideas and since these latest changes seem to have barely made a dent in the spammers activities while seriously hindering the ability of new players to enjoy the game I think other ideas might be worth thinking about!
Looks like the old spam dogs are learning a few new tricks...
All of my characters are hidden except for friends so either they are hanging around in PE for the rare ocassions I put in a personal appearance there to do some banking or to turn in a quest - or they are scoping out the Auction House and snatching names from there to send people spam-mail because I'm getting third party spam mail for characters that haven't been to PE in a long time - but they have put items up for sale in the Auction House.
It looks like aside from the reasons some people have listed here for objecting to removing the names from items for sale in the Auction House, there might be another reason those third party spammers would like to see the names stay...
Here's a thought -
Keep the character name on the items in the Auction House but get rid of the @account name?
they have 3rd party name search that not approved, sort of old asheron's call's 3rd party "ID tracker" to see who is in the area or in dungeon, typically used for mob tracker for "rare spawns" or quest mob that hard to find due to wander ability. then, they collect our names/and "@" handler tags and use us for in-game mail spams, sort of keylogger bait if we want to visit thier site to request our names get dropped from mailing list. that is dangerous trick to fall for.
not recommended to visit 3rd party sites.
you got this right, diochi, i have used anon and only friends/guild can see me for invites for groups, those not on my list, they still find me by using ARC's player/guild search, most often looking for highest rank officers for invites to commit bank robberies, or they using 3rd party ID tracker to overwrite "anon" settings and access to any bank at any ranks by skipping the probation period before earning next rank and bypass the guild settings.
i am just asking, have we noticed how much laggy it get since closing the Gateway?. i am sure Devs are completely almost helpless when seeing how much 3rd party had been running uncontrolled and new programs created just about everyday, and few could be undetectable.
devs only choice was to hit Economy, redo profession nodes, and make items bounded to make market valueless.
i would make names off the seller list from auction house, no need for names, just anon, to keep names private.
then again, just remember it, if you played other online games by a decade ago, some players used ID tracker for PvP and tracking the names, they even had "DM alert" when they were doing UMC (unattended micro combat) when any dungeon masters investigating the reports and checking, if they caught UMCers, they ban those players if failed several questions or not responding.
the alert just warn the player the incoming DM is getting closer, and then pretending to play, DM characters are ghost to mobs, and they can suspend spawns, they know when they see "chat script" if that player seem afk and active in combat, they will ask some elaborated or simple questions to see if they are answering best they can. sometimes, when the alert went off, few of scripts will get them log off, avoiding DM's testings.
Comments
Why won't it work? For 2 reasons:
1) Players could list an obscure item that has no value for a specific high price. The bots won't be able to see the players name, but the price would be so unique that they would know that it is the person they are selling to. Remember, when the bots are trading with players, they are communicating in some way outside the game.
2) The bots could simply trade items rather than AD. Say a player wanted to buy 1 mil AD to buy a P.PF, instead of the bot selling them 1 mil AD, the bot could just trade a P.PF with them in game It cuts out the double buying. Most of the stuff a player would buy for AD, they could buy from the third party directly and then do an in game trade.
All this idea does is makes the AH less user friendly. I for 1 like to know who I am buying from, or who is the idiot who undercuts by half an items value.
With this game you only need a sample of like 5 min of chat to notice if someone was spamming or not, the whole match in PvP if someone reported another player, something like that... The Tribunal also had some little rewards, maybe as "payment" for your services you could be awarded like 1 Zen every time you judged the player 'fairly'. It's by no means a new system, and it could prove to be useful for this kind of thing.
so, i dont like it, and it sound like the gestipo griefers who may driving others from the game. that why they shut down and do thier own investigations.
And, minimum wage employees might be tempted to increase income. Collaborating with or even start up a gold selling business could do it, couldn't it?
It doesn't seem like not having names listed by the item in the Auction House would be that much of a problem.
If as you say, you buy something at "a reduced price", and want to sell that item to a specific player, there is nothing to keep someone else, other than that friend from purchasing it anyway, regardless of your only wanting wanting to sell it to that person.
So again it doesn't seem like not having names listed by the item in the Auction House would be that much of a problem.
If the goal is to just buy something from a friend to give them the currency (ADs) they need, does it really matter if you buy it from them in the Auction House or someone else does?
Once again it doesn't seem like not having names listed by the item in the Auction House would be that much of a problem.
So why exactly is it a bad idea to not have the names of the seller listed with the items for sale in the Auction House?
Just curious.
No one would get the impression there was something 'fishy' going on if a seller offers a single minor healing potion or another usually inexpensive item for 1,000,000 ADs (the going price for a single purchase of ADs from a third party vendor if what I've read from the persistent spammers in the game is correct) in the Auction House.
As for selling actual in game items in the Auction House, without the attached name to the item, no one purchasing that item would know if it came from a third party vendor or an actual player in the game players would be inclined to purchase items solely if the price of that item seemed reasonable to them... which has the potential of seriously cutting into the profits for those third party vendors and possibly even discouraging them from trying to sell items in the Auction House.
As for wanting to know who undercuts your price for a listed item in the Auction House... it's a free market system and people can sell - or buy what ever they want for any price they want, knowing who might be selling an item for cheaper than what you listed it serves no purpose that I can think of.
Or at least that would be my thoughts on the topic.
So no, you couldn't go buy the gold sellers auction with a specific value, with my proposal you go to the AH and find what you want, then press Buy, the system sells you the lowest priced one and you never know who sold it to you. It arrives in your mailbox as usual, and the seller gets the money, but there really is no need for the two of you to know who each other are.
It is sort of like the ZAX but for items. This idea isn't totally unique, there are other games implementing similar ideas and since these latest changes seem to have barely made a dent in the spammers activities while seriously hindering the ability of new players to enjoy the game I think other ideas might be worth thinking about!
All of my characters are hidden except for friends so either they are hanging around in PE for the rare ocassions I put in a personal appearance there to do some banking or to turn in a quest - or they are scoping out the Auction House and snatching names from there to send people spam-mail because I'm getting third party spam mail for characters that haven't been to PE in a long time - but they have put items up for sale in the Auction House.
It looks like aside from the reasons some people have listed here for objecting to removing the names from items for sale in the Auction House, there might be another reason those third party spammers would like to see the names stay...
Here's a thought -
Keep the character name on the items in the Auction House but get rid of the @account name?
How's that for a compromise?
then, they collect our names/and "@" handler tags and use us for in-game mail spams, sort of keylogger bait if we want to visit thier site to request our names get dropped from mailing list. that is dangerous trick to fall for.
not recommended to visit 3rd party sites.
you got this right, diochi, i have used anon and only friends/guild can see me for invites for groups, those not on my list, they still find me by using ARC's player/guild search, most often looking for highest rank officers for invites to commit bank robberies, or they using 3rd party ID tracker to overwrite "anon" settings and access to any bank at any ranks by skipping the probation period before earning next rank and bypass the guild settings.
i am just asking, have we noticed how much laggy it get since closing the Gateway?. i am sure Devs are completely almost helpless when seeing how much 3rd party had been running uncontrolled and new programs created just about everyday, and few could be undetectable.
devs only choice was to hit Economy, redo profession nodes, and make items bounded to make market valueless.
i would make names off the seller list from auction house, no need for names, just anon, to keep names private.
then again, just remember it, if you played other online games by a decade ago, some players used ID tracker for PvP and tracking the names, they even had "DM alert" when they were doing UMC (unattended micro combat) when any dungeon masters investigating the reports and checking, if they caught UMCers, they ban those players if failed several questions or not responding.
the alert just warn the player the incoming DM is getting closer, and then pretending to play, DM characters are ghost to mobs, and they can suspend spawns, they know when they see "chat script" if that player seem afk and active in combat, they will ask some elaborated or simple questions to see if they are answering best they can.
sometimes, when the alert went off, few of scripts will get them log off, avoiding DM's testings.
Also I think the majority of people claiming they sell things at a reduced rate to friends are actually full of poo, too.