test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options

Stormwarden Archery Crit build

12346

Comments

  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    aslan3775 said:

    @lirithiel --thank you for writing the guide, and for @mayday#2798 and @kangkeok for your comments.

    I have been playing an archer for quite a while, and my build was 'close' to your suggestions. I finally bit the 'respec' bullet and made the last changes, and --What a HAMSTER difference!

    The Mod 10 changes really seem to let me stay out on the fringes more effectively than in the last three mods. The mobs tend to die much faster, and I get to use most of my archer encounters rather than becoming a Trapper 'trapped' in an Archer spec. I have noticed that my aimed shot is very quick, and I can sometimes get three of them off before a mob can close on me. I don't know if switching stances would work, but I would definitely need to improve my 'keyboard' skills to fit that into my rotation.

    I have two questions--do you have a rough idea of what your crit % is 'unbuffed'? I don't have a bonded companion on this toon, so I was wondering how much of a bump you tend to get from that situation, and if there are other buffs that I am missing. My current crit is ~70% @ 2.8 ilevel and missing a few boons.

    The other question is Thorn Ward--my current rotation tends to focus on Cordon, Longstrider, and Rain of Arrows. I love Hawkshot/Hawkeye---but really, did they need another long animation archery encounter??? Can someone comment on how well Thorn Ward fits into a rotation, and if others prefer Longstrider, are they using the Gushing Wounds aspect very often now that Archers tend to be on the fringes again?

    You're most welcome :)

    My sheet Crit Chance without Bonding procs or Ring of Rising Precision and any other sources in 77.3%.

    As for Thorn Ward, I only use it on single-target fights (dragons, dungeon bosses etc) otherwise it's the standard Rain, Longstrider's and Cordon. I hardly, if ever, use Gushing Wound as Archer - maybe when I'm lazy and don't feel like backing off the mob immediately.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Gotta admit, even as combat, cordon and rain do a shittonne of damage.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I dropped Rain for Thorned Strike, which has a far shorter CD (7 sec), because of the animation of RoS - it tends to get interrupted far too much for my liking. Also I kill stuff so fast as SW Combat that RoA and RoS won't be nearly as effective as TS, which hits pretty damn hard now too and is AoE to boot.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    As a tough old combat toon I usually dive into a group of mobs, drop rain on myself, switch and drop plant growth etc., then circle with splitstrike. Till everything is dead. On single target, gushing wound, CA, PG and rain of swords just create a giant mushroom cloud of red numbers, back off, Longstriders and Roa... rinse repeat. Act also tells me surprisingly enough that magistrates consideration is something like 10% of my damage.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I run a lot of PoM (because reasons) and I usually don't make more than 2-3 swings of CtG after opening with PG before all the mobs are dead. It's only on elite mobs and bosses that I can actually settle into some sort of rotation :D. I really hope they don't nerf Combat too badly eventually because I am really enjoying it for the first time in ages. Previously I just playing Combat out of the love for it.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    tutelo#5367 tutelo Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    I may be asking in the wrong thread, but is there a way to run an archery spec that has decent melee damage or viceversa? A build where I can go into archery or melee and still do decent damage on both (not trapper). Possibly a hybrid build. I do realize that it may not be a BIS build, but as long as I'm having fun with the toon, it doesnt have to be
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User

    I may be asking in the wrong thread, but is there a way to run an archery spec that has decent melee damage or viceversa? A build where I can go into archery or melee and still do decent damage on both (not trapper). Possibly a hybrid build. I do realize that it may not be a BIS build, but as long as I'm having fun with the toon, it doesnt have to be

    The feats in Archery and Combat don't really make for a hybrid build anymore. You could do it but it will be lacklustre as you'll likely be missing out on the good feats in both trees.

    You can maybe mix Archery/Combat with Trapper without actually playing Trapper, by going for Deft Strikes and Swiftness of the Fox but you'll likely have to take a few other Trapper feats as well to get to those feats.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    jhpnwjhpnw Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 611 Arc User

    I may be asking in the wrong thread, but is there a way to run an archery spec that has decent melee damage or viceversa? A build where I can go into archery or melee and still do decent damage on both (not trapper). Possibly a hybrid build. I do realize that it may not be a BIS build, but as long as I'm having fun with the toon, it doesnt have to be

    Combat can still do well with the range side Cordon and split the sky and ROA as well as thorn ward are all good ranged encounters.

  • Options
    tutelo#5367 tutelo Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    This was the build I was looking at; it is definitely not BIS but I was gonna make up the difference with stats and gear as much as possible.

    https://nwcalc.com/index.html#/hr?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13n0ili:1uu2lc0:15u3x00:1000000&h=1&p=swd&o=0

    If this doesnt work, then maybe the one below. Im not looking to play trapper, just able to switch between melee/range as I see fit

    https://nwcalc.com/index.html#/hr?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13n0ili:1000000:15u3x0p:1uu2i00&h=1&p=swd&o=0

    These are all PVE; I've no intention to pvp

    @jhpnw:

    By what youre saying, then it would be better for me to run the second build and use a high crit build with vorpal to do better damage.

    Thoughts? Opinions?
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I can't really say. I tried the Combat/Trapper hybrid build in Mod 9 but didn't like it (I went all the way into Swiftness). I don't think the Archery/Combat hybrid build will be very effective although I haven't tried it.

    Tbh it all comes down to playstyle. Combat is in-your-face and deals MEGA AoE damage if you go SW, while Archery is single-target and ranged. I play both at over 3k IL and my Combat HR cannot compete with my Archer in boss fights/single target but then there is no way my Archer can match Combat in AoE.

    Trapper is the hybrid spec and it still does the highest damage, played correctly, and you very much use both ranged and melee attacks often. I played it for about 2 months in Mod 9 but it didn't feel the same as the old Mod 2 hybrid HR.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    mayday#2798 mayday Member Posts: 100 Arc User

    This was the build I was looking at; it is definitely not BIS but I was gonna make up the difference with stats and gear as much as possible.



    https://nwcalc.com/index.html#/hr?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13n0ili:1uu2lc0:15u3x00:1000000&h=1&p=swd&o=0



    If this doesnt work, then maybe the one below. Im not looking to play trapper, just able to switch between melee/range as I see fit



    https://nwcalc.com/index.html#/hr?b=1oa5:k6rwk5:8dep:5tb7d,13n0ili:1000000:15u3x0p:1uu2i00&h=1&p=swd&o=0



    These are all PVE; I've no intention to pvp



    @jhpnw:



    By what youre saying, then it would be better for me to run the second build and use a high crit build with vorpal to do better damage.



    Thoughts? Opinions?

    i would not recomend any of the builds you have posted.

    there was a thread about a pvp hybrid, mix of piercing blades and swiftness, without a cap-feat, and it seems to perform well enough.

    if you want a mix playstyle, not being trapper, then go full combat. Combat is not as versatile as trapper is, but has more flexibility then archery.

    Being archer, you will go mele only ocasionaly - to drop a plant growth or gushing wound, but most of the time you will spent in ranged stance, while a combat HR can keep some buff or utility ranged skills that do damage in mele: fox, ward, cordon, longstrinder, rain of arrow; and as combat you will go ranged to use them much more often then archery would dive mele.
    But all in all you will not shift stances as much as trapper does, and will be less ”supporter” then archery and much less ”supporter” then trapper, so you will be forced to be a true DPSer to be usefull
  • Options
    tutelo#5367 tutelo Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    Sweet! Thanks for the info. I will go combat then.

    For combat, would it help to take 5 points in fleet stance or not?
  • Options
    jhpnwjhpnw Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 611 Arc User
    probably should start a separate thread rather than highjacking The archer SW thread if you are pvp then combat knowing you will not be top in PVe but if just want to pve then Trapper will give the best performance ion both melee and ranged
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User

    Sweet! Thanks for the info. I will go combat then.



    For combat, would it help to take 5 points in fleet stance or not?

    Most definitely! We need all the speed boost we can get. You can take 5 points from Serpent Weave - it really doesn't do much for CDs.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    robinrp83#8535 robinrp83 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Hey ! i am French thus I understood the main thing of the build but for the rotation, you use longstrider, cordon and rain but while the powers reload, you use Electric shot or aimed shot ?
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User

    Hey ! i am French thus I understood the main thing of the build but for the rotation, you use longstrider, cordon and rain but while the powers reload, you use Electric shot or aimed shot ?

    On mob packs, Electric Shot and on single target, Aimed Shot.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    chemodan007chemodan007 Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    The big problems of the Archer:
    1. Distance. Not all buffs get to the Archer,
    2. Predator.

    The problem №1.
    You can solve it, if you stand close to the target. But then you lose "Stillness of the Forest", "Longstrider", "Aspect of Falcon", "Hunting Hawk". From one problem moved to the other.

    The problem №2.
    Predator works as debuff 50%. The amount of debuffs have a cap equal to 100%. Predator does not bring any effect in a good group of players, because even without Predator, we often have the debuff on the top bar. All debuffs exceeding 100% work as 100%: 110% works like 100%, 150% works like 100%, 200% works like 100%, etc.

    I think these issues have already been discussed on the forum. Why the developers did not think about it, when reworked Hunter-Ranger?
    Drider
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User


    The problem №1.
    You can solve it, if you stand close to the target. But then you lose "Stillness of the Forest", "Longstrider", "Aspect of Falcon", "Hunting Hawk". From one problem moved to the other.

    This is a non-issue really as the buffs we get from our own distance at range doesn't compare to the buffs we get from the party. Many buffs have a range of 30' which is where you need to be at for Longstriders'. Stillness is only 25' and so is Aspect of the Pack R4 so that is fine too. Aspect of the Falcon gives you 5% extra damage at 30' which is better than nothing at all. The only one on your list is Hunting Hawk active bonus but then so many HRs don't have the companion so it's not really a biggie. It's a pity that it doesn't work the same as Falcon - then I'd actually use the HH.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    It is an issue if u compare to other tree. The other tree gets to fully utilize their bonuses while in party buff. Archer in the other hand needs to gimp its bonuses in order to get the party buff. And if what @chemodan007 says in problem No2 is true, that makes archer capstone more inferior to the other tree. Its clearly a bad design that archer doesnt perform well as it should be in a party and the developer @mimicking#6533 @strumslinger need to know. They should add things like "while stillness of forest is active, u gain party buff as long as the buff source( dc,gf,op,cw..etc ) is within your max range ( that include additional range from aspect of falcon )". Also making Prey as an independent debuff solely for the archer that activate it, will solve problem No2.
  • Options
    chemodan007chemodan007 Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    kangkeok said:

    It is an issue if u compare to other tree. The other tree gets to fully utilize their bonuses while in party buff. Archer in the other hand needs to gimp its bonuses in order to get the party buff. And if what @chemodan007 says in problem No2 is true, that makes archer capstone more inferior to the other tree. Its clearly a bad design that archer doesnt perform well as it should be in a party and the developer @mimicking#6533 @strumslinger need to know. They should add things like "while stillness of forest is active, u gain party buff as long as the buff source( dc,gf,op,cw..etc ) is within your max range ( that include additional range from aspect of falcon )". Also making Prey as an independent debuff solely for the archer that activate it, will solve problem No2.

    Thanks, I'm glad I found the one who understands it :)
    Pls, anyone who thinks the same support me in this topic:
    hr-archery-spec-big-problem
    Drider
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I've said all along that the way the devs envision how Archery should be played just doesn't work in NW because of the way buffs and debuffs work (mostly small range). We cannot utilise our own core abilities because then we miss out on all the goodness provided by own party members. The idea that Archers should play at maximum range needs to be scrapped, which means they would need to rework Stillness of the Forest, which I have been pushing for for quite some time. I am okay with the new version of Falcon as any dps boost is welcome but then the devs also need to consider changing the Hunting Hawk active bonus as well, which will likely never happen.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    The idea of archer playing at long range could still work without changing anything. They just need to add a function where archer is able access party buff from max range. Playing archer at less than 30ft does not makes it feel like an archer anyway. Might as well go combat or trapper.
  • Options
    kickapoodkickapood Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Since Lostmauth set is not that good anymore, is there any other artifact set that would be the most beneficial for us? Like black ice or something else
  • Options
    wdj40wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User
    kickapood said:

    Since Lostmauth set is not that good anymore, is there any other artifact set that would be the most beneficial for us? Like black ice or something else

    Orcus Set... that is what I upgraded my Lostmauth Set to.... eventually, takes a bit of a Grind to get the set mind you :)
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    No Orcus set is terribad for Archers stats-wise. It's basically the same as Lostmauth set where stats sucked on artifact but pre-nerf the proc is what made it BiS for all dps classes. The cost isn't worth it and even if you had the shard or belt I would sell it and make a tidy profit. Don't go for a set - just choose whatever artifact, neck and belt has the best stats you require.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
  • Options
    wdj40wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User
    lirithiel said:

    No Orcus set is terribad for Archers stats-wise. It's basically the same as Lostmauth set where stats sucked on artifact but pre-nerf the proc is what made it BiS for all dps classes. The cost isn't worth it and even if you had the shard or belt I would sell it and make a tidy profit. Don't go for a set - just choose whatever artifact, neck and belt has the best stats you require.

    Yeah my bad, I didnt realise I was in the Archer thread again... sorry :)
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • Options
    barentar#7031 barentar Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Hey lirithiel,

    Very nice build and thought process behind Archery. I'm glad I'm not the only one trying to prove Archery is viable! it's funny how people assume you're Trapper after a dungeon run.

    I've come up with pretty much the same conclusions and build on my own. However a few differences and thoughts.

    In Single target fights I actually switch up Cordon/Rain of Arrows to Commanding Shot and Hawk Shot. Now I have tried doing some testing but haven't been able to fully lock the numbers. I'm still thinking my combo would be better over RoA+Thorn. Reasoning:

    I already have over 60% RI so I don't need more from Thorn. Thorn's damage meanwhile is lacking. Commanding shot meanwhile provides a dmg increase debuff itself (couldn't find anywhere by how much though) plus lower the dmg the boss deals. Commanding shot's damage itself is very nice (120-200k per hit depending on buffs atm for me, IL2600 without any bondings yet). Hawk shot is the highest damage dealing ability I can spam every 6 sec or so thanks to Aimed shot reducing my cooldowns by -1sec per shot (this is one of the most useful Archery feats no one here mentioned, also why Aimed is even more better than Rapid). Hawk shot on top of it also has a nice melee buff too.

    I do understand that both Commanding and Hawk have long animations but it's not that much worse than Aimed shots' internal cooldown and bot provide both higher DMG and utility (buffs).

    Also imo the best passives are Falcon + Aspect of the pack (with artifact weapon bonus).

    Any thoughts on it?
  • Options
    wdj40wdj40 Member Posts: 1,958 Arc User
    You guys should check out some of McKlaud's clips... he is an Archer on X1 and an extremely good one. I have seen his clips in PvP as well as PvE and I am always pretty impressed http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/X3333X/videos he also solo's some of the hardest content in the game as an Archer spec.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • Options
    mrreaux#5943 mrreaux Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    Hey lirithiel, as mentioned already appreciate the write-up and knowing that Archer is viable away from Trapper. I've always been drawn to the range attackers in these types of game genre's. I've always like the range style. After reading through this sporadically between these last few days or so, i have a couple questions.

    1. Is it basically a pure Archery / Range play style, or are you forced to stance dance like trapper? I haven't played a HR because of this 'stance dance' it gives me a headache lol.

    2. Does race play a major factor? I'm guessing no, unless its min max? Just drop wis/dex.

    3. How well does the damage scale versus Trapper and the Combat builds lingering around. I'm seeing a few Archers here around lately, but never endgame more of the early stages. When i PM some of them, none seem to reply so idk haha. I wrecked at lvl 7 in the first skirmish though by a landslide. Mainly due to Split Strike spam lol.

    4. Any type of game-play of you/anyone playing?

    Alright im kinda rambling, again, thanks for the guide. Def looking forward to make one.
  • Options
    lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User

    Hey lirithiel,

    Very nice build and thought process behind Archery. I'm glad I'm not the only one trying to prove Archery is viable! it's funny how people assume you're Trapper after a dungeon run.

    I've come up with pretty much the same conclusions and build on my own. However a few differences and thoughts.

    In Single target fights I actually switch up Cordon/Rain of Arrows to Commanding Shot and Hawk Shot. Now I have tried doing some testing but haven't been able to fully lock the numbers. I'm still thinking my combo would be better over RoA+Thorn. Reasoning:

    I already have over 60% RI so I don't need more from Thorn. Thorn's damage meanwhile is lacking. Commanding shot meanwhile provides a dmg increase debuff itself (couldn't find anywhere by how much though) plus lower the dmg the boss deals. Commanding shot's damage itself is very nice (120-200k per hit depending on buffs atm for me, IL2600 without any bondings yet). Hawk shot is the highest damage dealing ability I can spam every 6 sec or so thanks to Aimed shot reducing my cooldowns by -1sec per shot (this is one of the most useful Archery feats no one here mentioned, also why Aimed is even more better than Rapid). Hawk shot on top of it also has a nice melee buff too.

    I do understand that both Commanding and Hawk have long animations but it's not that much worse than Aimed shots' internal cooldown and bot provide both higher DMG and utility (buffs).

    Also imo the best passives are Falcon + Aspect of the pack (with artifact weapon bonus).

    Any thoughts on it?

    I'm just very comfortable with the rotation I employ. It's good to see other players trying different things. I have given Hawk a go but I find it too clunky due to the animation. Because I use TW I don't see a need for Commanding Shot. The debuff last longer on TW as well and its damage isn't as bad as people think. It was third behind Aimed and RoA the last time I tested.

    Hey lirithiel, as mentioned already appreciate the write-up and knowing that Archer is viable away from Trapper. I've always been drawn to the range attackers in these types of game genre's. I've always like the range style. After reading through this sporadically between these last few days or so, i have a couple questions.

    1. Is it basically a pure Archery / Range play style, or are you forced to stance dance like trapper? I haven't played a HR because of this 'stance dance' it gives me a headache lol.

    2. Does race play a major factor? I'm guessing no, unless its min max? Just drop wis/dex.

    3. How well does the damage scale versus Trapper and the Combat builds lingering around. I'm seeing a few Archers here around lately, but never endgame more of the early stages. When i PM some of them, none seem to reply so idk haha. I wrecked at lvl 7 in the first skirmish though by a landslide. Mainly due to Split Strike spam lol.

    4. Any type of game-play of you/anyone playing?

    Alright im kinda rambling, again, thanks for the guide. Def looking forward to make one.

    1. Pure ranged style. There is no need to go into melee stance.

    2. Race only matters for the Timmy Powergamers. If you play for fun first and foremost then choose whatever race you fancy most.

    3. I'm sure there are a few very good Archers around end-game but at same IL, Trapper will blow Archery out of the water, if said Trapper knows what they're doing.

    4. If you mean videos, I don't do those sorry and don't know of anyone. Check the link @wdj40 posted just above.

    I'm taking a break from the game due to the HAMSTER "content" since Mod 10 but hopefully our new CM will help get the ship on the right track again.
    Our pain is self chosen.

    The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Sign In or Register to comment.