Combat - How should it be played?

ghoulz66 · August 2016

Throw Caution with it's CD reduction and extra feat seems too much of a DPS buff to not make use of. Rain is only good for hybrids, but even when I tested that out it gave no real improvement to DPS. Rain of arrows is nice, but rain of swords is a crippler for the capstone.

lirithiel · August 2016

Well I will start off with the set-up I have on live: Rain, Fox, PG and then mess around with the others to see what results I get. I'm still lacking a damage buff and may take the Throw Caution feat to see how much more damage it reduces. Also I see there is a tiny CD reduction being added to Lightning enchantment, which I recently bought so I want to see how that performs when Mod 10 launches.

@rayrdan: is Thorned Strike doing decent damage on preview? The pishpoor damage it does on live is the sole reason I never used Thorn Ward on Combat except when I used to pvp.

@ghoulz66: what CD reduction on Throw Caution feat? I thought it was reduced damage resistance meaning we'd take less damage than without the feat.

logandarkwater · August 2016

Ive been playing a combat HR since day one for me. Love the play style and mechanics. The extra 50% Crit Sev sold me on the class. Gotta load up on Azure Enchants though just to get my Crit chance back to where it should be. Was never one to just to sit back and fire arrows from a distance hoping no one attacks me. Glad they finally bumped up the damage of the at-wills.

Just wanted to add that I've always used Hindering Strike along with PG and Rain of Swords. RofS bleed dmg is pretty good if your patient. And if you can't wait for the cd's, shift out of melee range and spam Cordon and Rain of A then re-enter the frey. A longer shift would be helpful though, gotta hit it like four times when enganged with a dragon. I also use Lone Wolf and Twin Blade, and Seismic and Hurricane for Dailies. Rapid and Split for at-wills. Love the AofE for split strike, you just cant sit in the middle of a group and use it, you have to shift to the outside as its an arc. Only reason why this class works is due to Wilds Medicine and Battle Crazed. Without the Life Steal and healing boosts, combat HR surviveability in melee range would be HAMSTER.

rayrdan · August 2016

@lirithiel i cant tell you the exact number i have on tooltip but i was agreeably pleased compared to live

ghoulz66 · August 2016

lirithiel said:
Well I will start off with the set-up I have on live: Rain, Fox, PG and then mess around with the others to see what results I get. I'm still lacking a damage buff and may take the Throw Caution feat to see how much more damage it reduces. Also I see there is a tiny CD reduction being added to Lightning enchantment, which I recently bought so I want to see how that performs when Mod 10 launches.

@rayrdan: is Thorned Strike doing decent damage on preview? The pishpoor damage it does on live is the sole reason I never used Thorn Ward on Combat except when I used to pvp.

@ghoulz66: what CD reduction on Throw Caution feat? I thought it was reduced damage resistance meaning we'd take less damage than without the feat.

You read it wrong. I meant it gotten a CD reduction along with a feat to further boost it(not CD).

Used to be like 17 seconds, now with a CD of like 10.

lirithiel · August 2016

I'm killing stuff in WoD and BS by using just CtG. Even did a HE in WoD without any sweat. Not missing the loss of Lifesteal on Battle Crazed but loving the extra Deflect. RoS animation is still too long and with the lag in BS it's even worse so giving Thorned Strike a test run. Combat is better than what it was - not there yet but my Archer is taking a back seat for now as I carve swaths of death around me >:)

flowcyto · August 2016

Getting good mileage from feated Throw Caution + PG + Thorn Strike. Two shorter cds for decent Flurry uptime, a dps buff that's almost always up during combat, and Plant Growth is Plant Growth (though for single targets Gushing Wound can replace it, if ya dun like PG cheese; Fox Shift works alright for AoE too).

Rain of Swords/Arrows can be okay, but I'm a bit soured on RoS due to its slow anim that's prone to missing targets entirely.

Wish they'd make Throw Caution a pbAoE that doesn't require a target like Steel Breeze. Dun have many other complaints for Combat atm, aside from Pathfinder not really measuring up to Stormwarden in AoE (feated Bear Trap is okay as a single-target dps power if ya add in its bleed and short cd for Flurry, though).

silence1x · August 2016

My second HR is at level 64 but this thread has renewed my interest in changing her to Combat spec. Now, the only question is Stormwarden or Pathfinder. . . .

krondhor · August 2016

silence1x said:
My second HR is at level 64 but this thread has renewed my interest in changing her to Combat spec. Now, the only question is Stormwarden or Pathfinder. . . .

Stormwarden if you focus on PVE, Pathfinder if you focus on PVP

jaymadiv · August 2016

I'm currently using Cordon/PG, Longstriders/Gushing Wound, Fox for my encounters. CtG and Split for my at-wills. Lone Wolf and BladeStorm as my Features.

I briefly tried Pathfinder and I just didn't like Careful Attack not being an actual attack, as a Combat spec. i think Pathfinder is better suited for Trapper and Archer.

Gushing Wound and Split Strike makes for a pretty awesome combo.

nightdagger88 · August 2016

It's a shame that the combat tree doesn't have a real good purpose applied. In theory it should be a nice two swords masterblade or something. If everything worked correctly we would have more distinctive players and a nice variety of builds instead of same ones hanging around. However it's nice thou the Archer tree got some nice upgrades, i haven't seen much of them anymore, maybe now we can some some ranged dps striking again.

I started my HR few days before mod 10 release, and i'm loving it.

lirithiel · August 2016

I don't like what they did with the Combat capstone. Previously I'd fire off an encounter followed by at-will and onto next encounter followed by at-will and so on and so on. But now I actually have to delay my encounters by 2 secs to make the most out of Blade Hurricane/Flurry which equates to even less damage. I wish they'd scrap the capstone completely and come up with something new.

silence1x · August 2016

lirithiel said:
I wish they'd scrap the capstone completely and come up with something new.

That can be said for many classes/paths unfortunately.

logandarkwater · August 2016

lirithiel said:
I don't like what they did with the Combat capstone. Previously I'd fire off an encounter followed by at-will and onto next encounter followed by at-will and so on and so on. But now I actually have to delay my encounters by 2 secs to make the most out of Blade Hurricane/Flurry which equates to even less damage. I wish they'd scrap the capstone completely and come up with something new.

Combat tree has always been about maximizing the damage of your at-wills, and it still is after the newest upgrades. Nothing changed there. They just do more damage now.

ghoulz66 · August 2016

Amenar left before any final improvements could be made.

One nice QoL change would have been making Flurry charge based so you could choose when to unload at-will spam rather than being forced to use at-wills immediately after an encounter.

isssssho · August 2016

Might be jumping in a bit late on this thread but nvm that. When mod launched I first respeced to archery, was not so impressed than to combat. I like it and intend to stay as it is. My dmg is a bit lower than when i was trapper due to some of my items not being intended to use with combat build as well as 10% less base crit (and me being newbie with rotations). But PVE wise SW is only path viable due to clear the ground (aoe swing at will very similar to gwfs wms). Now to maximise use of flurry point is to use 1 encounter on each 2 sec + at will. In my case plant growth (very high dmg), thorn strike (only 6 sec cd) and fox swift (few monomer hits but high dmg). Atm using legendary dex. belt but I feel urge to switch back to lostmauth set.
If I helped anyone see something new I'm glad and I'd be thankful if someone could point out things that I'm eventually missing.

lirithiel · August 2016

I'm playing SW Combat and use the same encounters as you are @isssssho. I don't use Rapid at all anymore after the massive buff to CtG which I now use with Aimed Strike. I am in the same boat with regards to itemization. I've been stacking Power and Deflect with almost no Crit but I'm not sure where to go. I'm also looking for a good artifact to use as active. Trying to stay away from stats like Control Bonus and Control Resist so want to avoid those artifacts. I already have Forgehammer of Gond which I intend to keep though. I previously used the Seldarine set and still have the neck and belt but no longer have the artifact. Didn't feel I needed the healing and the stats were cr@ppy anyway. OH damage sux balls so the Lostmauth set will be weaker for Combat.

ghoulz66 · August 2016

Managed 56% crit atm for high/? crit route. Rank 8s/9s and only one artifact with crit on it. The new relic armor has power/crit on it vs my DF chest with power/arp. So getting crit higher is more than achievable.

lirithiel · August 2016

@ghoulz66: How much Deflect do you have? Did you choose the Crit boons over the Deflect ones?

isssssho · August 2016

Well today was lot better than yesterday I guess - figured ctg have 360 degree angle so now just jumping right in middle. Tested lostmauth set with common quality belt - 5-6% dmg in act so still kinda meh. when I max my brutals I should be ok crit wise, well, I am almost ok even now due to using sudden crit with companion so at combat start for first 10 sec i have about 75-80% crit but after that im screwed XD
Well good thing is there is plenty of space to improve dps since I already saw some gwfs owning me in etos n cn.

thefiresidecat · August 2016

rayrdan said:

wdj40 said:

rayrdan said:
if you are interested im proposing to change dodges into a sprint that can offer HRs the mobility and DR they need.
Image to move as fast as a gwf getting the goodie of the new shadow slip from SW.
Our dodges just suck compared to that.
go check the feedback thread and bump me up

@armwald
See I disagree with you here, I absolutely love our shift mechanism and would not want to change it much. Just a bigger distance and less Stamina consumption/regen delay would be nice.
@wdj40 when reading my posts you should not see my as a HR advocate.
i m just a player that saw the whole HR evolution in 3 and so years playing in great pvp guild (synergy/absolute/chocolate shop) and great full pve ones (gravityxgame the one im actually in) . Using ACT as it was bread and butter.
Of course my opinions may be biased ( at least for you, but of course they are a bit) but act gave me numbers for 3 years....
i m pretty much known by everyone that plays this game (not like this is important) but this brings to talk with them and known what they really want and complain about.
Right now i feel my comments are fitting a great number of HRs' desires.
Your feedback for devs is valuable as much as mine, the only difference is that in 3 years i stockpiled 4k posts more than you (and this again for devs makes no difference).
just take in mind, i act for the good of everyone.
Archery is almost playable, trapper kept its playstlye, combat is a fighter at least in pvp.
i would call them good results.
i m sure sprint over dodges would make them even better. The things you are able to dodge right now, are 10x times easier to handle with sw sprint to name one.
Im not one of those happy american players with low ping sadly.

you don't speak for me either.

I also like shift as it is other than what soonergm mentioned. I totally agree with sooner on this personally. I also have gladiators guile and some movement from boons. With those things i'm ok with my speed in general. I don't have a hard time keeping up.

lirithiel · August 2016

Okay I can confirm that there is really no point in using Rapid Strike over CtG for single target. I went to the single Caer Konig target dummy and tested both at-wills on a 5-min timer, and Rapid did 3.8 million damage (496 hits) while CtG did 3.7 million damage (482 hits). So Rapid Strike isn't all that rapid compared to CtG and only did marginally more damage over a long period. The numbers would be even more minuscule during shorter fights. Both tests I used the corresponding MH feature with 10% damage boost.

Atm I'm also using the Loyal Commander gear on my companion over Loyal Avenger. I lose roughly 20% Crit chance with the Bonding proc up but my Recovery is over 9k now! Also I am running with a Lightning enchant which procs like crazy and further reduces my CDs. I'm loving the Combat rework although I feel improvements can still be made. A speed boost would be greatly appreciated for one thing.

artanisen · August 2016

lirithiel said:
Thinking about how I envision HR, a sprint would be better suited to the class, with GWF getting our short dodges instead. Realistically it makes much more sense. We should be quickly in and out of combat. If not a sprint we should have a lot more innate movement speed. Combat is just too slow since we lost the speed bonus from the old pvp sets. Someone else noted that HR sometimes sprint forward ninja syle (my Combat HR does that and I have no idea why myself)and it would be cool if we got that type of sprint animation and not something silly like GWF or annoying as SW.

If you are talking about shifting forward as you hit the w key.
It's probably because you have the option to double tab to shift turned on.
if that is the case.

-
But speaking of the shifting i hate hr shifting. Consume so much stamina for such a short distance.
specially having to do it multiple times to avoid the large red bursts circles.
I do wish i had a lot more deflection though, well just a tad bit more. HR are so squishy
someone breaths on me i faint. but i know someone will criticize me over that sentence.
-

On topic: It would be nice if all 3 trees where accessible, allowing feats points to be
put anywhere. but allow 1 final feat. Making builds a little more interesting.

lirithiel · August 2016

artanisen said:

lirithiel said:
Thinking about how I envision HR, a sprint would be better suited to the class, with GWF getting our short dodges instead. Realistically it makes much more sense. We should be quickly in and out of combat. If not a sprint we should have a lot more innate movement speed. Combat is just too slow since we lost the speed bonus from the old pvp sets. Someone else noted that HR sometimes sprint forward ninja syle (my Combat HR does that and I have no idea why myself)and it would be cool if we got that type of sprint animation and not something silly like GWF or annoying as SW.
If you are talking about shifting forward as you hit the w key.
It's probably because you have the option to double tab to shift turned on.
if that is the case.

No I realised it's from the speed increase you get after using Fox Shift.

mayday · August 2016

lirithiel said:
Okay I can confirm that there is really no point in using Rapid Strike over CtG for single target. I went to the single Caer Konig target dummy and tested both at-wills on a 5-min timer, and Rapid did 3.8 million damage (496 hits) while CtG did 3.7 million damage (482 hits). So Rapid Strike isn't all that rapid compared to CtG and only did marginally more damage over a long period. The numbers would be even more minuscule during shorter fights. Both tests I used the corresponding MH feature with 10% damage boost.

Atm I'm also using the Loyal Commander gear on my companion over Loyal Avenger. I lose roughly 20% Crit chance with the Bonding proc up but my Recovery is over 9k now! Also I am running with a Lightning enchant which procs like crazy and further reduces my CDs. I'm loving the Combat rework although I feel improvements can still be made. A speed boost would be greatly appreciated for one thing.

I think the test should be done in another way:

the main source of DMG for combat is piercing blades (20+%)
and flurry (~20%)
while the dps from atwills (im my case ctg and aimed strike) is about 10% (sometimes more)

so... best atwill for solo target is that one, which can do most hits in 2 sec of flurry. if rapid shot does the same as CtG, then the one that hits harder is better.

from your test, Rapid shot does an averige of 7.661k per hit
CtG does 7676.34 dmg per shot

15 damage difference, so if you manage to do 4 hits of rapid shot, and only 3 hits of ctg during flurry, rapid shot wins.

And, a bit on solo target DPS:
skill setup
CtG + aimed shot
gushing wound+thorn strike+PG
blade storm+pack or venegance

the routine: land the thorn ward, go mele, aimeg strike->gushing->CtG(flurry)->PG->CtG(flurry)->thorn strike->CtG(flurry), go range, update ward (if not off cd, just go back mele and spam a bit of CtG), now you can go 30ft away to shot a longstrinder, and in such a case, dive mele ->PG or thorn strike->CtG(flurry) and then update aimed strike and use gushing->CtG(flurry)-> the 3rd encounter power->CtG(flurry). if you do not use longstrinder, then just repeat the first steps: land the thorn ward, go mele, aimeg strike->gushing->CtG(flurry)->PG->CtG(flurry)->thorn strike->CtG(flurry)

explanation: each tic from aimed strike, if you are buffed with flurry, will strice 2 aditional times for 160% dmg, and at the same time, you spam the other atwill, so our goal is to keep the uptime of flurry as high as we can for ticks to be buffed

my rotation is not as smooth as i would like to (only 3k recovery), but with 9k recovery, it should be ok.

feanor70118 · September 2016

ghoulz66 said:
Amenar left before any final improvements could be made.

One nice QoL change would have been making Flurry charge based so you could choose when to unload at-will spam rather than being forced to use at-wills immediately after an encounter.

I don't know how you could make a capstone charge based - I'd just say that Flurry should start when you first strike with an at-will following an encounter - that would make Aimed Strike more useful.

lirithiel · September 2016

Still, Combat is in a far better place than before Mod 10. I'm not sure there is any other class that can compete with SW Combat in AoE damage now. I shred packs of mobs with CtG, Plant Growth and Thorned Strike and I don't even use Blade Storm or Twin-Blade Storm. Combat lacks single-target damage but Aimed Strike and Gushing Wound help somewhat in that respect. Overall the damage has gone waaaaaay up and I am a happy HR.

david · September 2016

I was testing Combat earlier this week to understand/establish a rotation for PvP. I ended up not using a cap stone. Survival was not an issue making it possible to be a *huge* distraction on a node. So I look forward to Mod 10's damage bonus.

krondhor · September 2016

I play now myself a full combat build, after 2 years of being Trapper, I've also tried the hybrid build for a couple weeks, but since I focus at PVP, the full combat (pathfinder) does really perform better, but its of course a total different play style now.

lirithiel · September 2016

krondhor said:
I play now myself a full combat build, after 2 years of being Trapper, I've also tried the hybrid build for a couple weeks, but since I focus at PVP, the full combat (pathfinder) does really perform better, but its of course a total different play style now.

You're still switching stances often enough if you're using Thorned Strike, Fox and Plant Growth - not as much and as fluently as Trapper granted but not so different. You're just not doing anything from range as Combat unless you open with Cordon.

Combat - How should it be played?

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