Okay, the first thing that needs to be sorted out are the bonding stones as these are completely making a mockery of everything. They are so powerful that the game is not about character development anymore and thinking about your skills, stats, what path to take, but it has become about getting a companion of choice, get your rank 12 bonding stones as soon as you can and sod everything else, because ultimately it is really no that important. They are truly the worst idea ever as companions are there to act as as support and to provide bonuses to a well developed characters. They also make Ioun Stones completely pointless and along with every single runestone in the game. It should not be like this, players should make a choice and weigh up the pro's and con's of that choice. Do I take a Ioun Stone which does not provide any benefits other than stat boosts, or do I take a companion which does not give as a good a stats bonus, but does give me a NPC fighting along side me and potentially saving my butt. But nope, there is no choice, just get bonding stones which can make a 2.4k gs completely out DPS a 3k same class. Utterly ridiculous, please re-address this complete game destroying failure of balance.
Speaking of balance, please for the love of god, make the classes like they are supposed to be. Every single class should be useful, every single class type should be needed for dungeons and adventuring (what adventuring?). At a certain point, there is no need for GF's, there is no need for DC... Even in DPS there is an unbalance. No class should be able to do more damage the a GWF, as it is point blank range, whilst SW's and HR are ranged, so they sacrifice damage for distance and safety. CW's should be about control, hence "Control Wizard" and should have little DPS... The whole thing is an utter mess and think you need to go back to the start and really think about the classes, how they work and how they are used in parties and bring some much needed balance back to the game. And when I say balance, I mean parties needing a tank, a healer, a controller, and fighters... Not yeah, we can take any old class, because it doesn't matter, as everyone has bonding stones and yeah... That is a ridiculous position for a D&D based rpgmmo to be in... Just make an announcement and get it sorted. Of course people will cry, becasue they want everything, they want healers that do the best DPS and GWF's with super high healing skills so they don't need DC's in the party to keep alive. The whining of many modern gamers is destroying so many games, so please ignore these and bring some real balance back to the games and the party becomes all important again.
Seeing as you now sorting out the ridiculous bonding stones, how about making all the epic armour give the same stat bonuses, but in categories. Thus helping to increase the variation of character builds. Stronghold, Elemental, Sharandar, Dread Ring, Ice Windale and about 3-4 variants of armour that can be crafted should all have level 142 armour and weapon (Equal to Artifact and doesn't cost 5 million AD to buy) that can be upgraded to level 145, the only thing that changes is the stats bonuses, but that all have they same amount in total. My god am I sick to death of seeing everyone wearing the same thing because the character character crafting has been destroyed.
Please give us some adventure, some areas to explore that you cant fast travel too. The new Bryn, Lonelwood are all new fantastic areas to explore, especially Lonelywood, it just amazing... But how about at attaching multilevel (10?) dungeons via cave entrances and ruins to explore... Don't have time and what about cost? Not a problem, work with the community to make these dungeons, I mean you have the forge already? Make more use it, incorporate it into the game, get a couple of people to help and guide the public and polish them off... And then if they get selected give them 5 million AD or something, run creative dungeon competitions. Competition, please create and design a 10 level dungeon with boss, with history and lore and get your dungeon in the new expansion and win 5,000,000 AD (or something).... Then when you give out Adventure Marks for the stronghold, you give people more because they are actually adventuring and it takes longer and also give really good loot like dropping the new rings etc at the end of these dungeons. But you can't do it in one go and takes time, you say... That is fine, the way you use portals to travel from one area to another means you can block access to areas that are not ready yet and slowly, adding the pieces together like a jigsaw and slowly but surely you can build up a massive area along the sword coast for people to explore, go adventure, encounter random wandering creatures, big bosses at the bottom of dungeons and link all these areas you have created together. Random quest generation for inns and taverns, making more use of them. It doesn't mean to say that you cant incorporate dailies and weeklies, or the stopping from the need to buy xen... You just need to be creative... And make all explorable area's level 70... so the whole world becomes the end game and not just the dungeons.
The other thing you can do with this more open bigger world, is have safe villages (apart from events or random encounters) around that have PVP arena's in them, where players can join different villages, create leagues, play games home and away, creating real competition for people, give pvp some seriously love and attention.
These are just some of the thing I think needs to be done. There can be so much more to this game than running around in circles. Fine, if some people want to do that, they can, there is no reason stuff like that can be incorporated.
Oppressor is the CW control tree, it has little DPS. Thaumaturge is the DPS tree and needs more damage. Nobody rolls a CW to be low DPS and to try to control enemies with control immunity or control resist. Bosses are control immune. Light armor classes should have more damage than heavy armor classes. Heavy armor classes should have more survivability, less DPS. Even if control was to ever be needed again, the CW should still have high damage because it is a cloth-wearing class.
Better put some plate on that mother, ans give GWF some cloth. lol Screw that.
I am not talking about PVP balance, as PVP completely unbalanced at well.... It needs a whole lot of work... I hate PVP in actual fact, just for egotistical muppets. That said, they can be a very important part a the game as a vibrant PVP population, would still contribute revenues and funds to the game and make the game feel alive.
And no I don't have rank 12 bondings, because I don't want them as they are stupid and OP and completely spoil the game.
As for CW comments, I think the CW should be able to partially control everything. Give them less DPS, and change it to ICE, Fire and lightening branchs, we you can apply control. Just make it more interesting and CW's more useful to parties, bring back the old singularity to control mass mobs. CW's could be so much more interesting than they are.
To be fair the devs don't care about balance anymore. GFs and OPs can tank without the support of a healer, on purpose, it seems. I wish healers were needed, but they're not anymore, all this because the blubbering is so massive when GFs - the strongest class currently - get the slightest nerf that the devs don't really bother trying anymore.
To be fair the devs don't care about balance anymore. GFs and OPs can tank without the support of a healer, on purpose, it seems. I wish healers were needed, but they're not anymore, all this because the blubbering is so massive when GFs - the strongest class currently - get the slightest nerf that the devs don't really bother trying anymore.
And this is the real problem, as well as the game descending, just get better gear.... That is it and that doesn't support a long term positive future for the game or the developers.
The solution is not to nerf CW, they have been nerfed enough and most CWs play as DPS. The solution is to give Oppressor more DPS and un-nerf some control spells. They could tweak enemies to be more vulnerable to control. If you want to be control, go Oppressor.
But this is the kind of thing that has created 99% of the problems with balance (ie, classes being useful and needed by parties)... The solution has always been give out more DPS and everything will be better, I want my DC to uber heals and DPS and control and buffs and debuffs, because I am a modern gamer and I demand it. And in the brutal honesty, that is the biggest most damaging attitude to have in gaming and has ultimately run many games into the ground. Even Elite Dangerous has fallen into this trap and the game has gotten a lot worse for it. The last thing this game needs is throwing more DPS around as a cure all.
Who is mentioning nerfing the CW, I am talking about making it better, more interesting and creative. For the love of God, I just can't see how giving the CW more interesting and creative control is ever considered a nerf, seeing that the classes primary role is control.
Healers should not be debuff gods at this point. Right now every class has something desirable except maybe trs
I think creating real dungeons with traps, locked boxes, secret walls where thieving skills are required as you cant progress through to the deeper dungeons with out them.
lol Finally someone said's it. But everyone wants to be a god so they give god like abilities. Well all except the dc class.
:note: This is a non-troll post
Post edited by artanisen on
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Great men are almost always bad men." “If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
Who is mentioning nerfing the CW, I am talking about making it better, more interesting and creative. For the love of God, I just can't see how giving the CW more interesting and creative control is ever considered a nerf, seeing that the classes primary role is control.
How is turning a wizard in control of destructive, powerful magic into Paste-Pot-Pete making it more interesting for players who select Control Wizards because they want to take on the role of being powerful, destructive, magic wielders ? This is a Role Playing Game not a Class Designation Game.
Who is mentioning nerfing the CW, I am talking about making it better, more interesting and creative. For the love of God, I just can't see how giving the CW more interesting and creative control is ever considered a nerf, seeing that the classes primary role is control.
How is turning a wizard in control of destructive, powerful magic into Paste-Pot-Pete making it more interesting for players who select Control Wizards because they want to take on the role of being powerful, destructive, magic wielders ? This is a Role Playing Game not a Class Designation Game.
Ummm because a control wizard is about controlling the battlefield not destroying it, that is what the DPS classes such GWF, SW and HR are for... It the class in game, not one I have designed.
lol Finally someone said's it. But everyone wants to be a god so they give god like abilities. Well all except the dc class.
:note: This is a non-troll post
"I want my DC to uber heals and DPS and control and buffs and debuffs, because I am a modern gamer and I demand it. And in the brutal honesty, that is the biggest most damaging attitude to have in gaming and has ultimately run many games into the ground. "
You do realise I was talking 3rd person, as if I was one of those people and how damaging that attitude is to have and to pander too?
To be fair the devs don't care about balance anymore. GFs and OPs can tank without the support of a healer, on purpose, it seems. I wish healers were needed, but they're not anymore, all this because the blubbering is so massive when GFs - the strongest class currently - get the slightest nerf that the devs don't really bother trying anymore.
And this is the real problem, as well as the game descending, just get better gear.... That is it and that doesn't support a long term positive future for the game or the developers.
Bonding runestones are a problem yes, but the real issue can be summed up in two words.....
Power Creep
Yes folks removing soft caps on primary attributes are always a terrible idea. Being able to obtain a 100% crit rate for dps or 100% dr for tanks (hard cap is 80% but with powers 100% is pretty obtainable) is pretty freaking ridiculous.
So their solution is to just make everything in dungeons one-shot (little zombie guys in CN anyone) if they aren't debuffed. The way combat works now is a lot different from mod 5. You could survive a few hits from mobs in pirate king or frozen heart before dying making healing relevant. Now it's all about buffing and debuffing. I understand they wanted to make tanking important again, but they went the extreme and made it too important, thus making healing less important. That plus all the self healing from insignias being based on max HP turns tanks into immortal machines that can't be killed if geared and played correctly. This is a huge issue that makes pve content rather boring if you ask me.
lol Finally someone said's it. But everyone wants to be a god so they give god like abilities. Well all except the dc class.
:note: This is a non-troll post
"I want my DC to uber heals and DPS and control and buffs and debuffs, because I am a modern gamer and I demand it. And in the brutal honesty, that is the biggest most damaging attitude to have in gaming and has ultimately run many games into the ground. "
You do realise I was talking 3rd person, as if I was one of those people and how damaging that attitude is to have and to pander too?
If it was me you are referring too.
I didn't mean to make it sound rude if it seem that way. Was agreeing with you pointing out the balance. to me in my opinion this game is way to catered to dps with no type of rock,paper scissor type of balance with no strategy required. It's either go dps and buff or go home.
i would liked to play a dc class/healer type but the hole class is not very attractive to me.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." "Great men are almost always bad men." “If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
You have some really good points in your original post here. Problem now is that this thread is being taken over by "class balance" whiners and we should be looking at the big picture and that has to do with content.
Yes, the new zones look great as you mentioned, but there is so little to do. Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun. Yes, there should be numerous caves and entrances to explore and give us items we need for the campaign. I mean, after 10 minutes of doing the required 2 quests in Bryn and one quest in Lonely, there is nothing more of interest to do.
TLDR: Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun. Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun. Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun.
twitch.tv/kaligold
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I think you would have a better response to your thread if you weren't trying to pigeonhole CW into how you view the class as what you think the class should be and instead tried to expand upon it. As it currently stands, (in theory) the class has 3 possible roles, controller, striker and leader. Both the striker and leader side of the control wizard see play, but the controller is vastly under performing in PVE. This is primarily due to 2 factors. The first being the fact that everything has such high control resistance and the control wizard cannot pierce it and the second is because the content is just not designed for the class. Things that are designed to be controllable, don't need to be controlled. Furthermore, for the foreseeable future, the devs do not intend to change this (if you read their post on the preview forums about boss fights in FBI.)
The point is, the class is intended to have 3 different possible roles, not just 1 and different people like playing different roles. You should rather try to expand upon the role that isn't performing well and improve it, rather than degrade the roles that are performing and then elevate the under performing 1 to the point where its the only existing role. That would not be improving the class and expanding upon its choices, it would instead be limiting them to a narrow minded view of how the class should be played.
You have some really good points in your original post here. Problem now is that this thread is being taken over by "class balance" whiners and we should be looking at the big picture and that has to do with content.
Yes, the new zones look great as you mentioned, but there is so little to do. Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun. Yes, there should be numerous caves and entrances to explore and give us items we need for the campaign. I mean, after 10 minutes of doing the required 2 quests in Bryn and one quest in Lonely, there is nothing more of interest to do.
TLDR: Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun. Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun. Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun.
I was thinking the same thing. There is more to the OP than just balance.
Thank you for pointing that out, as there is so much more than can do with this game that what we are seeing at the moment.
I think you would have a better response to your thread if you weren't trying to pigeonhole CW into how you view the class as what you think the class should be and instead tried to expand upon it. As it currently stands, (in theory) the class has 3 possible roles, controller, striker and leader. Both the striker and leader side of the control wizard see play, but the controller is vastly under performing in PVE. This is primarily due to 2 factors. The first being the fact that everything has such high control resistance and the control wizard cannot pierce it and the second is because the content is just not designed for the class. Things that are designed to be controllable, don't need to be controlled. Furthermore, for the foreseeable future, the devs do not intend to change this (if you read their post on the preview forums about boss fights in FBI.)
The point is, the class is intended to have 3 different possible roles, not just 1 and different people like playing different roles. You should rather try to expand upon the role that isn't performing well and improve it, rather than degrade the roles that are performing and then elevate the under performing 1 to the point where its the only existing role. That would not be improving the class and expanding upon its choices, it would instead be limiting them to a narrow minded view of how the class should be played.
I wasn't trying to pigeon hole the CW, I am trying to point out there isn't balance between all the classes as many of them are not needed in parties. Which is not what it is about.
And yes, I have looked into and yes CW's can have different roles, the problem is, only one role is needed and that is DPS. Every class needs an overhaul.
And there is more to my opening post than just class balance.
"The whining of many modern gamers is destroying so many games, so please ignore these and bring some real balance back to the games and the party becomes all important" -isnt that exactly what youre doing in this post? should they ignore you? The only problem with this game is no content. Everyones dressed up with nowhere to go. Rank 12 bondings arent easily accessible to everyone. Neither is an optimal companion at epic level. Also to not use something in a game because its 'OP' just tells me you are a burden to anyone you play with. More and more mods come out with nothing added to the game, so everyones slowly becoming too strong. In many other games, they combat this with a complete rework of the leveling system or power acquisition. In neverwiter, there are plenty of people wearing the same gear since mod 5! Anyway, i do agree certain things do need to be fixed, but there is definitely a bigger need for new challenging content that will not be gated by time to make us believe that there is actual substance. If everyone is too powerful then make enemies that decrease that (like ap drain in shar). Make content have more problem solving or precise timing to it, no amount of power can win with horrible teamwork in a situation like that.
Cryptic had a game called City of Heroes once. I recall picking up and playing a Dominator in the City of Villains expansion. It was a control class with pretty good cc but very poor dps and tanking ability as it should be. I actually needed a team of other players in order to do even normal content. Years later as the game evolved or devolved, depending on personal opinions the same ol Dominator could still apply great cc but was now also able to self heal and dish some serious damage on its own. Its just inevitable it seems. Fast forward to Neverwinter, the CW has been a dps machine and will continue to be so. Cryptic are past the point of no return with this game, this is my honest opinion. They are so deep in HAMSTER they cant get out even if they wanted to. So they simply follow management and focus on developing more and more ways that prompt people to spend money.. too bad. I really like the way the game plays, the combat is still one of the best Ive ever played. The environments are not as pretty or as vast as GW2 for example but I got back here not to GW2 so thats saying something. The game still has this unique appeal and this potential to be something great, I just dont think this studio and publisher are capable of realizing said potential.
Post edited by emilemo on
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
My main is GWF. I can tell you, I do not need a CW to control adds for me. So, any boost to control would require a hard nerf to all DPS classes and a change in some NPCs and bosses to be able to be controlled. That is not likely to happen. CW in no way needs a DPS nerf, it needs a little boost to Thaum and a big boost to Renegade and Oppressor.
Honestly I think that a hard nerf to DPS is exactly what the game needs. Whether it is better to do that via hard nerfing the DPS of all powers or by nerfing the power of the ludicrous amount of stackable buffs I'm not sure of. Power creep is way out of control.
Lifesteal/self-healing is back to where it was in mod5. My HR is pretty much dead or at full HP all time and I don't even even the lifesteal guild boon. This pretty much makes healing useless. Not only that, it forces monsters to be one-shot machines to be relevant. If the monsters are one-shot machines then tanks have to be reaaally tanky. But then they are so tanky that in PvP you can't kill them unless you use piercing damage. It's a bad loop going on.
Let's compare Dread Vault and CN final boss fights:
Dread Vault was a mix of one static boss and a large number of mobs. These mobs where not one-shot killing monsters, they were controllable and they could control you as well. Control was needed to keep them from making the whole floor red and shutting you down, aggro management was needed to bring them close to the edge where more control was needed to push them off the ledge. Healing was needed as monsters didn't kill you in one hit and gave time to the cleric to heal, and also because self-healing was not abundant. DPS was obviously needed to kill mobs and the boss. It took a long time to win the fight and closing your first DV was an achievement you were proud of. It was a complex fight, it required tactical thinking, positioning and a lot of dodging.
In CN control is not needed. There is only one boss and it is control immune. Healing is not much needed. Most DPS classes can lifesteal their life back to full in a matter of moments. Tanking is still needed (if you avoid the cheesy companion tanking...). Aggro management is reduced to a minimum as there is only one monster. (compare it with old Frozen Heart where the GF had to keep aggroing hordes of monsters). What you are left with is DPS (either direct or via buff/debuffs...) and the amount of creep is so high that Orcus gets vaporized in seconds. I have been many times with parties where he didn't even have the time to use the first of its special abilities... Closing CN doesn't feel as an achievement. I closed CN with my guildies on the first run. And it's not a complex fight... we're down to the point that the game is "stack all your bonuses up and vaporize the poor sod once again". By the way the fact that closing the dungeon is so easy and fast forces Cryptic to keep the value of the loot at a low level and that makes everything feel even more grindy.
Another good example was Malabog in the beginning (except for the final fight...). Redcaps were a real pain, they had healers that you had to target first, powries stealing your AP (basically stealing your power), monsters that could control you and some heavy hitters.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Comments
And no I don't have rank 12 bondings, because I don't want them as they are stupid and OP and completely spoil the game.
As for CW comments, I think the CW should be able to partially control everything. Give them less DPS, and change it to ICE, Fire and lightening branchs, we you can apply control. Just make it more interesting and CW's more useful to parties, bring back the old singularity to control mass mobs. CW's could be so much more interesting than they are.
GF can do top tier DPS+buff+tank, because you know, that is quite clearly their job. I now know 6 GFs who can fill all 3 roles at once.
SW is a better leader than GF and has more control than CW, because arms should clearly prone bosses. Control warlock anyone?
CW still has no meaningful control and is forced to either play DPS or Support in the form of buff/debuff.
Clerics still immortalize the party with AA.
Bonding Stones are still out of whack.
Buffs/Debuffs still scale things to absurd levels.
But hey, all is WAI.
Who is mentioning nerfing the CW, I am talking about making it better, more interesting and creative. For the love of God, I just can't see how giving the CW more interesting and creative control is ever considered a nerf, seeing that the classes primary role is control.
Well all except the dc class.
:note: This is a non-troll post
"Great men are almost always bad men."
“If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
sigh
You do realise I was talking 3rd person, as if I was one of those people and how damaging that attitude is to have and to pander too?
If it was me you are referring too.
Power Creep
Yes folks removing soft caps on primary attributes are always a terrible idea. Being able to obtain a 100% crit rate for dps or 100% dr for tanks (hard cap is 80% but with powers 100% is pretty obtainable) is pretty freaking ridiculous.
So their solution is to just make everything in dungeons one-shot (little zombie guys in CN anyone) if they aren't debuffed. The way combat works now is a lot different from mod 5. You could survive a few hits from mobs in pirate king or frozen heart before dying making healing relevant. Now it's all about buffing and debuffing. I understand they wanted to make tanking important again, but they went the extreme and made it too important, thus making healing less important. That plus all the self healing from insignias being based on max HP turns tanks into immortal machines that can't be killed if geared and played correctly. This is a huge issue that makes pve content rather boring if you ask me.
to me in my opinion this game is way to catered to dps with no type of rock,paper scissor
type of balance with no strategy required. It's either go dps and buff or go home.
i would liked to play a dc class/healer type but the hole class is not very attractive to me.
"Great men are almost always bad men."
“If God is all-powerful He cannot be good, if God is good He cannot be all-powerful!”
Yes, the new zones look great as you mentioned, but there is so little to do. Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun. Yes, there should be numerous caves and entrances to explore and give us items we need for the campaign. I mean, after 10 minutes of doing the required 2 quests in Bryn and one quest in Lonely, there is nothing more of interest to do.
TLDR:
Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun.
Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun.
Grinding Heroic Encounters is NOT fun.
The point is, the class is intended to have 3 different possible roles, not just 1 and different people like playing different roles. You should rather try to expand upon the role that isn't performing well and improve it, rather than degrade the roles that are performing and then elevate the under performing 1 to the point where its the only existing role. That would not be improving the class and expanding upon its choices, it would instead be limiting them to a narrow minded view of how the class should be played.
Thank you for pointing that out, as there is so much more than can do with this game that what we are seeing at the moment.
And yes, I have looked into and yes CW's can have different roles, the problem is, only one role is needed and that is DPS. Every class needs an overhaul.
And there is more to my opening post than just class balance.
Cryptic had a game called City of Heroes once. I recall picking up and playing a Dominator in the City of Villains expansion. It was a control class with pretty good cc but very poor dps and tanking ability as it should be. I actually needed a team of other players in order to do even normal content. Years later as the game evolved or devolved, depending on personal opinions the same ol Dominator could still apply great cc but was now also able to self heal and dish some serious damage on its own. Its just inevitable it seems. Fast forward to Neverwinter, the CW has been a dps machine and will continue to be so. Cryptic are past the point of no return with this game, this is my honest opinion. They are so deep in HAMSTER they cant get out even if they wanted to. So they simply follow management and focus on developing more and more ways that prompt people to spend money.. too bad. I really like the way the game plays, the combat is still one of the best Ive ever played. The environments are not as pretty or as vast as GW2 for example but I got back here not to GW2 so thats saying something. The game still has this unique appeal and this potential to be something great, I just dont think this studio and publisher are capable of realizing said potential.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Lifesteal/self-healing is back to where it was in mod5. My HR is pretty much dead or at full HP all time and I don't even even the lifesteal guild boon. This pretty much makes healing useless. Not only that, it forces monsters to be one-shot machines to be relevant. If the monsters are one-shot machines then tanks have to be reaaally tanky. But then they are so tanky that in PvP you can't kill them unless you use piercing damage. It's a bad loop going on.
Let's compare Dread Vault and CN final boss fights:
Dread Vault was a mix of one static boss and a large number of mobs. These mobs where not one-shot killing monsters, they were controllable and they could control you as well. Control was needed to keep them from making the whole floor red and shutting you down, aggro management was needed to bring them close to the edge where more control was needed to push them off the ledge. Healing was needed as monsters didn't kill you in one hit and gave time to the cleric to heal, and also because self-healing was not abundant. DPS was obviously needed to kill mobs and the boss. It took a long time to win the fight and closing your first DV was an achievement you were proud of.
It was a complex fight, it required tactical thinking, positioning and a lot of dodging.
In CN control is not needed. There is only one boss and it is control immune. Healing is not much needed. Most DPS classes can lifesteal their life back to full in a matter of moments. Tanking is still needed (if you avoid the cheesy companion tanking...). Aggro management is reduced to a minimum as there is only one monster. (compare it with old Frozen Heart where the GF had to keep aggroing hordes of monsters). What you are left with is DPS (either direct or via buff/debuffs...) and the amount of creep is so high that Orcus gets vaporized in seconds. I have been many times with parties where he didn't even have the time to use the first of its special abilities... Closing CN doesn't feel as an achievement. I closed CN with my guildies on the first run.
And it's not a complex fight... we're down to the point that the game is "stack all your bonuses up and vaporize the poor sod once again".
By the way the fact that closing the dungeon is so easy and fast forces Cryptic to keep the value of the loot at a low level and that makes everything feel even more grindy.
Another good example was Malabog in the beginning (except for the final fight...). Redcaps were a real pain, they had healers that you had to target first, powries stealing your AP (basically stealing your power), monsters that could control you and some heavy hitters.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80