What most people were asking for was buffs to Combat and Archery so that they weren't pigeonholed into Trapper.
The problem isn't so much Archery/Combat as Trapper overperforming. From the looks of the patch notes, they STILL haven't nerfed Swiftness of the Fox and Thorned Roots, f-m-l. The HR base class is weak at best, therein lies the problems more so than the feats. Oh yeah, and again, Swiftness/Thorned Roots.
Trapper is on par with other DPS classes (or at least not outperforming them significantly). If by your definition Trapper is overperforming you're basically asking for HR to become the red-headed stepchild of DPS classes.
Also, they *buffed* thorned roots so ...
Yeah, I'm aware they buffed Thorned Roots, which I don't agree with.
Trapper is overperforming compared to Archery and Combat is what I mean, not overperforming as a whole. As I've stated countless times, it's because of Thorned Roots being in some cases a more than 100% damage boost, and the cooldown reduction feats which is something the other paths don't have. I can deal with Thorned Roots existing, but unless you also give the other paths some sort of insane damage boost, Trapper will continue to be fotm. And honestly, don't you think it'd be easier to buff all around base damage by 30-50% or so, nerf swiftness/thorned, than giving a 100-200% damage boost to feats to compensate on the Archery and Combat paths?
The way English works you would've actually had to say this.
Increasing base damage significantly is a bad idea because of the way it can interact with buffs. Trapper isn't inherently broken right now so it would make more sense to make Archery and Combat perform better without introducing something that could potentially throw the whole class out of balance.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
What most people were asking for was buffs to Combat and Archery so that they weren't pigeonholed into Trapper.
The problem isn't so much Archery/Combat as Trapper overperforming. From the looks of the patch notes, they STILL haven't nerfed Swiftness of the Fox and Thorned Roots, f-m-l. The HR base class is weak at best, therein lies the problems more so than the feats. Oh yeah, and again, Swiftness/Thorned Roots.
Trapper is on par with other DPS classes (or at least not outperforming them significantly). If by your definition Trapper is overperforming you're basically asking for HR to become the red-headed stepchild of DPS classes.
Also, they *buffed* thorned roots so ...
Yeah, I'm aware they buffed Thorned Roots, which I don't agree with.
Trapper is overperforming compared to Archery and Combat is what I mean, not overperforming as a whole. As I've stated countless times, it's because of Thorned Roots being in some cases a more than 100% damage boost, and the cooldown reduction feats which is something the other paths don't have. I can deal with Thorned Roots existing, but unless you also give the other paths some sort of insane damage boost, Trapper will continue to be fotm. And honestly, don't you think it'd be easier to buff all around base damage by 30-50% or so, nerf swiftness/thorned, than giving a 100-200% damage boost to feats to compensate on the Archery and Combat paths?
The way English works you would've actually had to say this.
Increasing base damage significantly is a bad idea because of the way it can interact with buffs. Trapper isn't inherently broken right now so it would make more sense to make Archery and Combat perform better without introducing something that could potentially throw the whole class out of balance.
Agreed. Any increase to base HR damage is going to mean more damage for Trappers, which they may need in comparison to other DD classes, but the last thing we want is for Trappers to remain head and shoulders above Archery and Combat in terms of damage. If Swiftness of the Fox is going to remain untouched, they need to improve Serpent's Weave to be on par with that Trapper feat and give Archers something as well - Bottomless Quiver isn't nearly enough.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
What most people were asking for was buffs to Combat and Archery so that they weren't pigeonholed into Trapper.
The problem isn't so much Archery/Combat as Trapper overperforming. From the looks of the patch notes, they STILL haven't nerfed Swiftness of the Fox and Thorned Roots, f-m-l. The HR base class is weak at best, therein lies the problems more so than the feats. Oh yeah, and again, Swiftness/Thorned Roots.
Trapper is on par with other DPS classes (or at least not outperforming them significantly). If by your definition Trapper is overperforming you're basically asking for HR to become the red-headed stepchild of DPS classes.
Also, they *buffed* thorned roots so ...
Yeah, I'm aware they buffed Thorned Roots, which I don't agree with.
Trapper is overperforming compared to Archery and Combat is what I mean, not overperforming as a whole. As I've stated countless times, it's because of Thorned Roots being in some cases a more than 100% damage boost, and the cooldown reduction feats which is something the other paths don't have. I can deal with Thorned Roots existing, but unless you also give the other paths some sort of insane damage boost, Trapper will continue to be fotm. And honestly, don't you think it'd be easier to buff all around base damage by 30-50% or so, nerf swiftness/thorned, than giving a 100-200% damage boost to feats to compensate on the Archery and Combat paths?
The way English works you would've actually had to say this.
Increasing base damage significantly is a bad idea because of the way it can interact with buffs. Trapper isn't inherently broken right now so it would make more sense to make Archery and Combat perform better without introducing something that could potentially throw the whole class out of balance.
Agreed. Any increase to base HR damage is going to mean more damage for Trappers, which they may need in comparison to other DD classes, but the last thing we want is for Trappers to remain head and shoulders above Archery and Combat in terms of damage. If Swiftness of the Fox is going to remain untouched, they need to improve Serpent's Weave to be on par with that Trapper feat and give Archers something as well - Bottomless Quiver isn't nearly enough.
1) It was told not once that to make other paths viable they should have started with buffing at-wills... not by 50% but by 10x, really! I do realize that it's a crutch, but it's still better than the current state. That way archer can pew-pew in PVE and do competitive damage, using thorn ward as debuff, longstrider shot as buff and whatever-he-likes most as another DD encounter, buff/debuff, utility. I'm not sure that's enough for combat HR. As for trapper, he remains the same, but gets the ability to land damage with at-wills too. Careful attack multiproccing should be adressed to prevent disbalance in that case. 2) 2nd thing which can also help is reducing the distance on longstrider and buffing it (100% damage on self, 30% or lower for party). Multistacking should be adressed. 3) 3rd thing which solves no-burst issue is to add SoD-like mechanic to Slasher's mark or whatever. Or it also can be a debuff, that decreases target's healing from all sources for a period of time, or it even can be HAMSTER piercing damage on slasher's mark. Either way it can be a prone on Seismic Shot to gain more control. This all works fine. After something like this is done, you can buff/nerf different feats/powers to get the precise balance.
2) 2nd thing which can also help is reducing the distance on longstrider and buffing it (100% damage on self, 30% or lower for party). Multistacking should be adressed.
IMO what they need more is something that indicates you're at the proper distance from a mob.
What most people were asking for was buffs to Combat and Archery so that they weren't pigeonholed into Trapper.
The problem isn't so much Archery/Combat as Trapper overperforming. From the looks of the patch notes, they STILL haven't nerfed Swiftness of the Fox and Thorned Roots, f-m-l. The HR base class is weak at best, therein lies the problems more so than the feats. Oh yeah, and again, Swiftness/Thorned Roots.
Trapper is on par with other DPS classes (or at least not outperforming them significantly). If by your definition Trapper is overperforming you're basically asking for HR to become the red-headed stepchild of DPS classes.
Also, they *buffed* thorned roots so ...
Yeah, I'm aware they buffed Thorned Roots, which I don't agree with.
Trapper is overperforming compared to Archery and Combat is what I mean, not overperforming as a whole. As I've stated countless times, it's because of Thorned Roots being in some cases a more than 100% damage boost, and the cooldown reduction feats which is something the other paths don't have. I can deal with Thorned Roots existing, but unless you also give the other paths some sort of insane damage boost, Trapper will continue to be fotm. And honestly, don't you think it'd be easier to buff all around base damage by 30-50% or so, nerf swiftness/thorned, than giving a 100-200% damage boost to feats to compensate on the Archery and Combat paths?
The way English works you would've actually had to say this.
Increasing base damage significantly is a bad idea because of the way it can interact with buffs. Trapper isn't inherently broken right now so it would make more sense to make Archery and Combat perform better without introducing something that could potentially throw the whole class out of balance.
Agreed. Any increase to base HR damage is going to mean more damage for Trappers, which they may need in comparison to other DD classes, but the last thing we want is for Trappers to remain head and shoulders above Archery and Combat in terms of damage. If Swiftness of the Fox is going to remain untouched, they need to improve Serpent's Weave to be on par with that Trapper feat and give Archers something as well - Bottomless Quiver isn't nearly enough.
And I said the premise for these buffs is to NERF swiftness. There is NOTHING that will ever put Archery and Combat on par with trapper without nerfing the latter short of 100-200% damage bonuses in the feat. Whatever Archery/Combat does, Trapper will always do better because of the strong feats it has.
Trapper isn't inherently broken? Are you kidding me? As a single feat path it's INCREDIBLY broken. You remember what happened when OPs and TRs had broken cooldown reduction feats? They became the single most broken classes in the game (along with other issues, but cooldown reductions were a massive part of that). You say you want burst? Having cooldown reductions != burst. You want Archery and Combat to be on par with Trapper? Nerf the bloody feats to be on par with them, then BUFF THE BASE CLASS. Nothing in the game should have 0 cooldowns on anything, that's just incredibly broken.
Trapper will always be head and shoulders above Archery and Combat because of the cooldown reduction feats + thorned roots, and giving those two paths similar/same feats is just stupid and asking for things to be more broken.
What most people were asking for was buffs to Combat and Archery so that they weren't pigeonholed into Trapper.
The problem isn't so much Archery/Combat as Trapper overperforming. From the looks of the patch notes, they STILL haven't nerfed Swiftness of the Fox and Thorned Roots, f-m-l. The HR base class is weak at best, therein lies the problems more so than the feats. Oh yeah, and again, Swiftness/Thorned Roots.
Trapper is on par with other DPS classes (or at least not outperforming them significantly). If by your definition Trapper is overperforming you're basically asking for HR to become the red-headed stepchild of DPS classes.
Also, they *buffed* thorned roots so ...
Yeah, I'm aware they buffed Thorned Roots, which I don't agree with.
Trapper is overperforming compared to Archery and Combat is what I mean, not overperforming as a whole. As I've stated countless times, it's because of Thorned Roots being in some cases a more than 100% damage boost, and the cooldown reduction feats which is something the other paths don't have. I can deal with Thorned Roots existing, but unless you also give the other paths some sort of insane damage boost, Trapper will continue to be fotm. And honestly, don't you think it'd be easier to buff all around base damage by 30-50% or so, nerf swiftness/thorned, than giving a 100-200% damage boost to feats to compensate on the Archery and Combat paths?
The way English works you would've actually had to say this.
Increasing base damage significantly is a bad idea because of the way it can interact with buffs. Trapper isn't inherently broken right now so it would make more sense to make Archery and Combat perform better without introducing something that could potentially throw the whole class out of balance.
Agreed. Any increase to base HR damage is going to mean more damage for Trappers, which they may need in comparison to other DD classes, but the last thing we want is for Trappers to remain head and shoulders above Archery and Combat in terms of damage. If Swiftness of the Fox is going to remain untouched, they need to improve Serpent's Weave to be on par with that Trapper feat and give Archers something as well - Bottomless Quiver isn't nearly enough.
And I said the premise for these buffs is to NERF swiftness. There is NOTHING that will ever put Archery and Combat on par with trapper without nerfing the latter short of 100-200% damage bonuses in the feat. Whatever Archery/Combat does, Trapper will always do better because of the strong feats it has.
Trapper isn't inherently broken? Are you kidding me? As a single feat path it's INCREDIBLY broken. You remember what happened when OPs and TRs had broken cooldown reduction feats? They became the single most broken classes in the game (along with other issues, but cooldown reductions were a massive part of that). You say you want burst? Having cooldown reductions != burst. You want Archery and Combat to be on par with Trapper? Nerf the bloody feats to be on par with them, then BUFF THE BASE CLASS. Nothing in the game should have 0 cooldowns on anything, that's just incredibly broken.
Trapper will always be head and shoulders above Archery and Combat because of the cooldown reduction feats + thorned roots, and giving those two paths similar/same feats is just stupid and asking for things to be more broken.
Yeah that's a load of hyperbolic nonsense and you know it. They're not even really competing with equal ilvl GWFs even after the lolset nerf. The idea that they can't create feats to compete with trapper is ridiculous because it's just a matter of making them up. What do you think they have to make human sacrifices to change archery feats or some nonsense? Your idea of changing cooldowns would require a ridiculous amount of testing and multiple patches during which Trapper would likely be gimped and archery/combat would be OP. It's much easier to balance something that isn't broken and within the context of the other classes trapper isn't really broken.
Trapper is fine as it is, if they nerf trapper we can't compete to other classes and it's really obvious. The problem are combat and archery trees that need more ways to do damage. For Pvp we need some skills to do burst damage.
Again with the nerf nerf nerf. Instead of needing something viable, why not buff the two trees that are absolutely terrible. Everyone always reverts to the nerfs when something performs better than they think it should.
i think what he meant is to give trapper burst damage in exchange of swiftness of fox nerf..so instead of spamming encounter with no cooldown with no damage, he rather to have encounter that deal damage but with cooldown ( to help HR in pvp i suppose). Then he also suggest in making all 3 tree, trapper, combat and archer to be on par with each other in term of dps with all the same mechanics and the swiftness of fox nerf counted in. After that, he suggest that the dps of HR as a whole to be raised to a level to be on par with GWF or other competitive class atm.
The swiftness of fox he propose is to remove the cooldown reduction component from being affected by multiple target..may it be party buff or hitting multiple target.. to prevent abuse power..for example u can spam unlimited fox shift and hawk eye at the same time if the number of allies ( companion included) around u is enough..u can have an invicible team that have foxshift on 24/7 ( hmm..useful for orcus now i think about it..holy HAMSTER..we dont event need tank now..haha just kidding)..so what he propose is to make swiftness of fox cooldown reduction to proc on executing a power instead of based on number of target.
So conclusion is he wanna remove something that could be abused while buffing HR damage to be bursty so it is on par with other competitive class in PVE and PVP. I hope i didnt misinterpret anything.
I think thats alot of work of changing and testing..although sound helpful but i doubt they could do it on time untill mod 10 is released...maybe sometime in the future..
Edit: probably i m bad at explaining but..the nerf that ralexinor propose is not to remove swiftness of fox all together..it is to able swiftness to proc its cooldown reduction base on encounter use and not by the number of target affected by the encounter. So the playstyle is still there..cd is still reduced when u change ur stance. Understand that he too propose to buff up the dps for trapper to compensate the loss..so basicaly its not a nerf.
The problem is the trapper play style doesn't exist without swiftness and a couple other feats. The solution isn't to nerf the only viable path, the other two paths need to be fixed. All it would take for the archery tree to be fixed is a feat that boost at will damage. The combat path needs a miracle to be viable. Nerfing pve doesn't fix pvp and vise versa.
Why nerf trapper tree? The devs already admitted that hr class underperforms in damage compared to other classes. Nerfing trapper tree will just further increase the gap. No cd on trapper is op? The only atwill that adds dps is CA on pf. Plant growth deals more damage than seismic shot. Encounters are all the trapper community got. Then you want to put charges? Nonono The best thing to do for now is not to change a thing on trapper and buff archery and combat
For Trapper we only use at wills in pvp or to fill AOTS. To really give a good burst damage to at wills or do away with long animations on encounters but give longer cool downs would not benifit Trapper class. This would help archer and Combat much more than trapper. Let aimed shot fire instantly then give it 3 charges with 3 seconds in between with a 14 sec cool down and buff it where it does same damage of cordon. Trappers would not use it due to it does not help our thorned roots.Kill Split the skys animation make it last a little longer and remove 5 max from cordon and plant growth. Then you have a winning 3 rotation combo for archers. start shoot drop cordons then drop spilt the sky on top pick off others or kill boss with aimed shot. for for melee aimed strike and plant growth for what ever got thru and aimed strike with dot for boss fights have spilt the skys melee version give faster cool downs to ranged powers
Comments
Increasing base damage significantly is a bad idea because of the way it can interact with buffs. Trapper isn't inherently broken right now so it would make more sense to make Archery and Combat perform better without introducing something that could potentially throw the whole class out of balance.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
2) 2nd thing which can also help is reducing the distance on longstrider and buffing it (100% damage on self, 30% or lower for party). Multistacking should be adressed.
3) 3rd thing which solves no-burst issue is to add SoD-like mechanic to Slasher's mark or whatever. Or it also can be a debuff, that decreases target's healing from all sources for a period of time, or it even can be HAMSTER piercing damage on slasher's mark. Either way it can be a prone on Seismic Shot to gain more control. This all works fine.
After something like this is done, you can buff/nerf different feats/powers to get the precise balance.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1218454/official-feedback-thread-hunter-ranger-changes
HR community is numb, most pvp players don't even come here and then we end up with broken HAMSTER for ages, as it's too late to fix anything after changes are already applied.
I also ask you to vote here:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1218524/the-changes-to-hr-are-a-direct-insult-arent-they
We should really show the developers that we are completely declining such attitude to making balance. Thanks.
Trapper isn't inherently broken? Are you kidding me? As a single feat path it's INCREDIBLY broken. You remember what happened when OPs and TRs had broken cooldown reduction feats? They became the single most broken classes in the game (along with other issues, but cooldown reductions were a massive part of that). You say you want burst? Having cooldown reductions != burst. You want Archery and Combat to be on par with Trapper? Nerf the bloody feats to be on par with them, then BUFF THE BASE CLASS. Nothing in the game should have 0 cooldowns on anything, that's just incredibly broken.
Trapper will always be head and shoulders above Archery and Combat because of the cooldown reduction feats + thorned roots, and giving those two paths similar/same feats is just stupid and asking for things to be more broken.
Character: Vendetta
The swiftness of fox he propose is to remove the cooldown reduction component from being affected by multiple target..may it be party buff or hitting multiple target.. to prevent abuse power..for example u can spam unlimited fox shift and hawk eye at the same time if the number of allies ( companion included) around u is enough..u can have an invicible team that have foxshift on 24/7 ( hmm..useful for orcus now i think about it..holy HAMSTER..we dont event need tank now..haha just kidding)..so what he propose is to make swiftness of fox cooldown reduction to proc on executing a power instead of based on number of target.
So conclusion is he wanna remove something that could be abused while buffing HR damage to be bursty so it is on par with other competitive class in PVE and PVP. I hope i didnt misinterpret anything.
I think thats alot of work of changing and testing..although sound helpful but i doubt they could do it on time untill mod 10 is released...maybe sometime in the future..
Edit: probably i m bad at explaining but..the nerf that ralexinor propose is not to remove swiftness of fox all together..it is to able swiftness to proc its cooldown reduction base on encounter use and not by the number of target affected by the encounter. So the playstyle is still there..cd is still reduced when u change ur stance. Understand that he too propose to buff up the dps for trapper to compensate the loss..so basicaly its not a nerf.
Character: Vendetta
The best thing to do for now is not to change a thing on trapper and buff archery and combat