GF "Rework"

theguiido · July 2016

Stumbling on a reddit titled, GF Major Rework or something like that. Do you think GF will get nuked? or just things like ITF get nerfed. LMK in the comments.

boromir · July 2016

I second this question. Someone posted that the GF,SW and HR are getting a rework on FB. They also said that the preview server should be seeing this soon. Any and all info highly appreciated as things come to light. Fingers crossed that they don't break us like the pally.

theguiido · July 2016

boromir#3940 said:
I second this question. Someone posted that the GF,SW and HR are getting a rework on FB. They also said that the preview server should be seeing this soon. Any and all info highly appreciated as things come to light. Fingers crossed that they don't break us like the pally.

It would be a very dumb move by the Developers to destroy us. As we are "supposed" to be the main tanking class... and have the option to be either a support (buff) or a damage dealer (DPS). Many consider us a Defender/Buff/Control. When in Reality we are Defender/Striker/Buff. If they "nerf" anything it will probably be the Conquerer path. Even though it makes no sense to, (we all know how Cryptic Studios is. I however do not believe we will be seeing a nerf as much though.

As stated in the haste nerf, when the GF at-wills speed was increased, as stated from the developer "that is not all we have to help the Guardian Fighter in the future" this may be a buff to other feats/class mechanics and powers. This may make other paths and more powers viable and able to use. It may also mean they are going to be fixing a lot of the powers and skills that are bugged. If we do get nerfed to a pally where we sit there and just deal no damage or anything of purpose besides lagging with KV than thats a very dumb dumb move by the developers. I hope they do not do this as this will dictate where PvE tanks will go. I won't even begin how this will affect PvP if they nerf the DPS path. Most of the tanks on this game are PvE, even messing around with things like ITF damage or anything like that affects PvE. I hope they see the GF the same way we REAL GF's do. Strikers (DPS)/Defenders (TANK)/ Support (Buff) I HOPE THEY DONT NERF THAT BRO

boromir · July 2016

"Burst" damage in pvp is the main complaint from other toon types that I can see from the pc forums. I remember the devs mentioning other things coming too. Like a continuation of what they did with heals to every swing of crushing surge and hard marks while shield is up etc. I hope it would be a continuation of fixing broken things on the GF. For instance, villain's menace doesn't completely mitigate controlling effects as I can still be stunned by TR's smoke bombs.

GF's in this game are a tight knit group of info/build sharing people. We are very elastic and outside the box thinkers. So no matter what happens, we shall figure out a way to still be effective. I will literally drop my defense boon for HP guild boon and throw on a greater CON belt, reroll dwarf and shoot for 30+ CON and 200k HP for a full blown reflect/deflect build reminiscent of what I ran in mod 5.....if I have to. And that's just one direction I can go. No matter what happens, the GF will still be versatile.

Besides fray I've read that other toon types want a nerf to knight's challenge and a time constraint on knight's valor. Basically clerics that don't believe they should ever die in pvp ever, for any reason at all. And pallys wanting to be viable without the bubble. I read what people say, and it's obvious every single time what type of toon they run as their main......when they complain about a GF.

theguiido · July 2016

boromir#3940 said:
"Burst" damage in pvp is the main complaint from other toon types that I can see from the pc forums. I remember the devs mentioning other things coming too. Like a continuation of what they did with heals to every swing of crushing surge and hard marks while shield is up etc. I hope it would be a continuation of fixing broken things on the GF. For instance, villain's menace doesn't completely mitigate controlling effects as I can still be stunned by TR's smoke bombs.

GF's in this game are a tight knit group of info/build sharing people. We are very elastic and outside the box thinkers. So no matter what happens, we shall figure out a way to still be effective. I will literally drop my defense boon for HP guild boon and throw on a greater CON belt, reroll dwarf and shoot for 30+ CON and 200k HP for a full blown reflect/deflect build reminiscent of what I ran in mod 5.....if I have to. And that's just one direction I can go. No matter what happens, the GF will still be versatile.

Besides fray I've read that other toon types want a nerf to knight's challenge and a time constraint on knight's valor. Basically clerics that don't believe they should ever die in pvp ever, for any reason at all. And pallys wanting to be viable without the bubble. I read what people say, and it's obvious every single time what type of toon they run as their main......when they complain about a GF.

I know and I laugh at that. Knights Challenge?? Really?!?! LOLOL no real GF gives a **** about that. Just like cleave, it sucks anyways. I do honestly believe they might nerf some some damage aspects and put a cap on ITF, but I mainly think it's a continuation of aid to the GF since we are BEYOND like wayyyyy behind the paladin in tanking. Especially when their threat gets fixed lmao whats the point to tank xD.

All jokes aside, I do not plan on the GF getting murdered, nor do I think some of our skills will be toned down a bit. I feel mainly ITF will have a capstone and WILL not be able to be combined with other DR buffs. And if this does get nerfed (DPS tank) I can find so many ways around it. The REAL GF's will prevail, and all these people recently making tanks wills stop after these changes. Unlike us who will always find new ways to work around it. I am still very curious though. I can only assume what I said off what the Developer said. Hopefully nothing to bad.

nightranger7477 · July 2016

Probably a 80% cap on itf no interaction with DC AS and HG, OP Sigal and maybe a rework of KV and the tact capstone for ap gain, Strum did say Major..... Hopefully not though.

zman81420 · July 2016

We are getting effed in the A

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1218295/interum-patchnotes/p1?new=1&sso=eyJuYW1lIjoiIiwicGhvdG91cmwiOiIiLCJjbGllbnRfaWQiOiIxNDQzOTY4OTgxIn0=+f0c706c0ff6727698709afd4faaeda9b0fba4de4+1468319874+hmacsha1

boromir · July 2016

Well it seems that the devs want all GF's to go IV Protector, no exceptions. SM is going to be all but useless with a 3 second steel defense.

I understand the fray debuff, but not being connected to DR is strange. Also, they don't say what fray 'is' going to be connected to. Looks like 2 AOE encounters and valor is the meal ticket. I vote for a strike on fray when this hits...lol. Nuke? Yes, this is a nuke.

nightranger7477 · July 2016

Decimation, stacking defense is completely worthless now 80% cap, dr doesn't interact with itf, buff is a flat 25% dmg increase, this puts GF on the LV with OP tanks and aura of courage. This was done to make the GF and OP equal as tanks. Price of azure enchantment gonna fall like a rock. Oh and God Forbid you made a OP Sigal mythic, complete waste of refinement. I was so tempted to do so last double refinement glad I held off, emperor beetle price as well will fall dramatically. Wow just Wow....

tiptoejimbo · July 2016

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So pretty sure that gfs are supposed to get 4% hp per point in CON. Definitely not getting that =/

Why can't that be in the rework ?

oliboyph · July 2016

I think the idea of the ITF rework bringing GF down to OP level is flawed. Remember that OP's defend themselves by using at-wills and encounters. They can effectively tank Orcus while using Bane as a debuff and give allies more damage with their Aura Gifts feat, which scales with their power stat so there's plenty of benefits from investing in item levels and bondings.

Tank GF's will no longer benefit from improving defense, so bondings is useless for them, at the same time there's not much returns from an investment of resources into the class(unless you are a conqueror). Hit 3k ilvl, 80% DR some rank 10 raidants for HP and you are as good as you can get. Progressing towards 4k ilvl is pointless now.

theguiido · July 2016

oliboyph said:
I think the idea of the ITF rework bringing GF down to OP level is flawed. Remember that OP's defend themselves by using at-wills and encounters. They can effectively tank Orcus while using Bane as a debuff and give allies more damage with their Aura Gifts feat, which scales with their power stat so there's plenty of benefits from investing in item levels and bondings.

Tank GF's will no longer benefit from improving defense, so bondings is useless for them, at the same time there's not much returns for the amount invested resources into the class anymore (unless you are a conqueror). Hit 3k ilvl, 80% DR some rank 10 raidants for HP and you are as good as you can get. Progressing towards 4k ilvl is pointless now.

I hope these changes don't happen, and they listen to people, because this is horse ****. They wonder why players leave, this is why players leave. They go beyond overkill on classes and instead of fixing their game, they instead fix things that aren't the problem. Like seriously they nerfed villains menace but it STILL doesn't work. Shield is still glitched, cast times are way to long, heck even our CON doesn't even work. We don't even have as much HP as a paladin! The list goes on and on, and then this? Now they want us to be just like paladins?

You have to be kidding me, like seriously who is the main tanking class the Paladin or the GF for real because they just nerf and nerf and ruin and ruin their own game. I loved my GF, but now knowing this is my fate in 2 months is horrifying. I cannot even begin to say how upset and furious me and fellow GF's are. How many already quit the game because of this. It was said by @amenar that the GF is way behind the paladin in tanking, and that they have plans to help us in the future. Is this your idea of help? to see what is supposed to be the "MAIN" tanking class in this game fall? Now we are compared to the Paladins even though they didn't come till after MOD 5? How we are still behind them? how much this will affect Tactician and Conquerer GF's? They wouldn't have any idea because they have no idea what is actually happening, nor do they even listen to their players on their own game. Clearly. Infact, when has the main tanking tree on the GF got any love? Mod 6? thats over a year ago. Now it seems they want us as this.

Iron Vanguard Protector "TANKS" who now just sit their, lag the game with knights valor, and just sit their pressing buttons and moving around. Take out the word Fighter in our name because the Anvil of Doom is now the Anvil of Pillow, Steel Defense, which was the main way to tank orcas, is now chopped in half. Makes so much sense. Yeah just keep doing what you feel like doing as us players keep suffering, as each day we beg you and show you what needs to be fixed, but no, you listen to the pugs that got 2 shotted in a dom game, or listen to the elitist that are 4284. Never the mass amount of people who know what they are actually talking about. I hope they are happy with what they have done if this is their idea of "Helping the GF Tank".

PS just remove cleave lol, seriously 20% damage bonus, faster cast time, in game buffs i can mod with Artifact Class Features etc... now regain stamina, won't change my mind to use this useless ATWILL.

zman81420 · July 2016

My build, mythics, insignias and ranks 12 azures are kinda pointless now all fully geared at stacking defense. Fully decked out companion with 6 rank 12 azures and bondings, now <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. If I work up the courage for a respec I keep on keeping on if now there is this neat thing called the outdoors I keep hearing people talk about. I've spent well over a year creating a pure buff tank and it's being demolished. Pretty sad.

nightranger7477 · July 2016

Same thing I thought with my pally when they nerfed him, I went healadin and am having fun learning the new play style. I took my old Day 1 GF off the shelf and got him up to respectable il buff tact build, now with this "rebalance" will probably respec to protector and exchange some azures for some radiants off my pally, I think GF will still be viable just not the buff melt gods they have been. The first time I ran orcus with my GF and he was dead in 5 seconds was fun the first couple of times but the itf as hg interaction was truly trivializing the content, it should not be possible to kill anything in this game that fast, I am glad that they are trying to fix the broken mechanics that are making everything a cake walk but I think it was wrong to make ITF a flat buff. It should in my humble opinion have been capped, not removed from dr scale. They are not done with rebalancing yet and I am sure many more changes are coming for other classes that will completely shift the fundamentals for playing their classes as well.

zman81420 · July 2016

So much useless equipment now which sucks the most. Millions and millions of AD in items around waiting to be fed into a suitable item. They dicked with the true tank of the game so lets see how this stands. Everyone who cried about the GF being too OP is really going to feel this repercussion.

dukesirashi · July 2016

According to this, the last year of me playing this game and building my PVE 3.2K GF is gonna be totally wasted. I am at 80% DR finally (i don't use bondings) and now the entire class is gonna be destroyed because the DPS characters have broken mechanics that people exploit for massive damage buffed by the GF. Nice. Now my GF's only purpose will be to attempt to compete with the aggro magnet companions in dungeons which it struggles to do at at my current level much less at 2K. That isn't even worth doing. Welcome back to being kicked from every dungeon because you decided to play a GF. Who in their right mind would want to run a dungeon with a GF in the party once this class killing nerf goes into effect?!?!? A pally can heal and tank (better than a GF of the same il, see Orcus) a cleric can debuff and heal, a GF now will be useful for what exactly? Serously, what viable PVE options will we have? A DPS build that can't compete with anyone? A tank build that can't compete with some companions much less with a Pally? A buff/debuff build that cannot compete with any other support class? Zman is correct. We are getting major screwed.

skilsforhire · July 2016

They should let GF's trade out enchantments if these changes are the case. Just like the lostmauth set. Or else a huge waste of resources has happened to us all. Many will quit and move on.

zman81420 · July 2016

I bet they don't bother offering a retraining token. If they do I'd be as surprised as a nun at a Bachelorette party.

theguiido · July 2016

seriously when paladins threat gets fixed being a guardian fighter will be irrelevant if they go through with these changes. We will always be the paladins little brother.

grandpaxxx · July 2016

I knew this was coming about a month ago. Sold all my rank 12 Azure and Silvery and Bonding stones made a killing. Keeping all my AD on the sidelines. It's gonna get messy for awhile.

theguiido · July 2016

grandpaxxx said:
I knew this was coming about a month ago. Sold all my rank 12 Azure and Silvery and Bonding stones made a killing. Keeping all my AD on the sidelines. It's gonna get messy for awhile.

Let the EXODUS begin

zman81420 · July 2016

Going to be rough for a while. Congratulations idiots (in general) for crying your eyes out and getting the tanks in this game utterly destroyed.

egerius · July 2016

theguiido said:

boromir#3940 said:
"Burst" damage in pvp is the main complaint from other toon types that I can see from the pc forums. I remember the devs mentioning other things coming too. Like a continuation of what they did with heals to every swing of crushing surge and hard marks while shield is up etc. I hope it would be a continuation of fixing broken things on the GF. For instance, villain's menace doesn't completely mitigate controlling effects as I can still be stunned by TR's smoke bombs.

GF's in this game are a tight knit group of info/build sharing people. We are very elastic and outside the box thinkers. So no matter what happens, we shall figure out a way to still be effective. I will literally drop my defense boon for HP guild boon and throw on a greater CON belt, reroll dwarf and shoot for 30+ CON and 200k HP for a full blown reflect/deflect build reminiscent of what I ran in mod 5.....if I have to. And that's just one direction I can go. No matter what happens, the GF will still be versatile.

Besides fray I've read that other toon types want a nerf to knight's challenge and a time constraint on knight's valor. Basically clerics that don't believe they should ever die in pvp ever, for any reason at all. And pallys wanting to be viable without the bubble. I read what people say, and it's obvious every single time what type of toon they run as their main......when they complain about a GF.
I know and I laugh at that. Knights Challenge?? Really?!?! LOLOL no real GF gives a **** about that. Just like cleave, it sucks anyways. I do honestly believe they might nerf some some damage aspects and put a cap on ITF, but I mainly think it's a continuation of aid to the GF since we are BEYOND like wayyyyy behind the paladin in tanking. Especially when their threat gets fixed lmao whats the point to tank xD.

All jokes aside, I do not plan on the GF getting murdered, nor do I think some of our skills will be toned down a bit. I feel mainly ITF will have a capstone and WILL not be able to be combined with other DR buffs. And if this does get nerfed (DPS tank) I can find so many ways around it. The REAL GF's will prevail, and all these people recently making tanks wills stop after these changes. Unlike us who will always find new ways to work around it. I am still very curious though. I can only assume what I said off what the Developer said. Hopefully nothing to bad.

________

Just reading through these threads but yeah... we need more threat generation (it's always been lacking even with companions and maxed heroic) and putting a timer on KV is plain stupid. They do need to fix the lag that comes when KV is combined with Guarded Assault and Steel Supremacy. I never experienced lag with KV alone but running that reflect set-up assuredly lags the game out (most noticeably in PVP).

indylol · July 2016

I think we will be fine in PvP. I already have my mind made up on how i will approach dps after the changes. I'd like to see some finalized numbers to be sure what I want to try will work but I suspect we will still be able to 1 hit people in PvP but the only difference is we will likely partner up with an HR or a CW rather than the usual TR.

And for those who aren't up to the challenge of rebuilding and redesigning our role in PvE or PvP, i say good luck to you. The rest, we've got work to do.

theguiido · July 2016

indylol said:
I think we will be fine in PvP. I already have my mind made up on how i will approach dps after the changes. I'd like to see some finalized numbers to be sure what I want to try will work but I suspect we will still be able to 1 hit people in PvP but the only difference is we will likely partner up with an HR or a CW rather than the usual TR.

And for those who aren't up to the challenge of rebuilding and redesigning our role in PvE or PvP, i say good luck to you. The rest, we've got work to do.

Yeah bro IV GANG. Don't know how they will address some of these changes though in a later date. Appreciate the feedback on this.

I hope we do end up getting a feat rework for all 3 paths or something because imo I see the tactician and protector currently in mod 10 being underpowered if you ask me. I also wouldn't mind a change in conquerer.

Unknown · July 2016

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theguiido · July 2016

xsayajinx1 said:
@theguiido Real GF give a **** about Knights Challenge?

You stomping pugs in a solo queue does not prove anything to me.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

theguiido · July 2016

xsayajinx1 said:
Keep denying the truth KC is on PC one of the most used encounters in premade matches as well. Since you can easily clear people with it no matter if a healing class like DC/OP is around.

It's all about "know how to play with the encounter" and that's not hard to be honest.

Not denying anything. I personally just don't use it and many of my friends find it a joke to use for the fact it often misses, it take a lil bit to charge up, when they go into stealth aka hide like a coward it cancels.

Trust me, I've used it. I just don't like it and a lot of the GF community here on xbox wouldn't mind it getting nerfed because no top GF's on here even use KC. Nor do I know any GF on here who uses, which doesn't mean much because there is probably still people who still use it. None the less yeah the double damage is cool, but the risk reward factor and just the cancelation when people go into stealth I simply don't find it appealing to use. Premades I find it to use bull charge and anvil and fray for the simple fact phones help your TR dunk and anvil catches people on low health instantly dead. Thats just my opinion though.

Back to the topic at hand though, amenar said they will be putting an updated preview build for the GF soon to test on the PC. I hope my feedback, as well as the constructive and concise feedback and bug fixes that others have shown are noticed by the developers. I hope a lot of our feedback gets put in because there is still many issues regarding the class compared to the OP tanking wise. Feat change and power buffs would be nice to.

sulajpl · August 2016

Well, i have something to ask for. Obviously, I'm a SM Protector. Annnd I'm really worried with all threads above. What i really mean to ask for, Will 'DR' be SO nerfed at the usless point, or just the new type of damage (frost damage, something like in ID but more dreadful) is indomitable? As seen, at the first adventure zone foes deal primarily physical damage. I guess it all starts up with giants. I'm a bit under 3K IL, my power cap is 10k while defense cap is 21,5k.
Should I pick the IV, increase everything else, especially HP in cost of defense and use Ferocius Reaction active?
It still sounds unbelieveable for me. Thanks in advance for Your answer.

oliboyph · August 2016

sulajpl said:
Well, i have something to ask for. Obviously, I'm a SM Protector. Annnd I'm really worried with all threads above. What i really mean to ask for, Will 'DR' be SO nerfed at the usless point, or just the new type of damage (frost damage, something like in ID but more dreadful) is indomitable? As seen, at the first adventure zone foes deal primarily physical damage. I guess it all starts up with giants. I'm a bit under 3K IL, my power cap is 10k while defense cap is 21,5k.

Should I pick the IV, increase everything else, especially HP in cost of defense and use Ferocius Reaction active?

It still sounds unbelieveable for me. Thanks in advance for Your answer.

In my experience both SM and IV work. I prefer IV for the next mod though (probably because I like the new style of play). Just make sure you max your DR then invest the rest on HP. If you are using scaling items (rising def, twisted set, etc), you'll want to start at 70% DR, since you'll end up with 80%+ later on.

GF "Rework"

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