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Specialize GF (This is my proposal)
juliofp70
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 109 Arc User
Well, i play GF and i see that atm we are a class able to do eveything almost at the same level being conqueror, protector or tactician. So i want to make a propose... Lets nerf KV and ITF and speciallize all paths.
Knights Valor DR - 5% per additional rank, down from 10%
InTo The Fray - 10% base +5% per additional rank (total 25%)
So, now that we know what i sugest as a nerf lets speciallize each class:
Conqueror Path: Does more damage but have less KV (5% per additional rank) and 25% ITF
Protector Path: Brawling Warrior Feat: Now with 5 points gives 20% more DR per additional rank.
1 point: 8% (5% + 3%)
2 points: 11% (8% + 3%)
3 points: 14% (11% + 3%)
4 points: 17% (14% + 3%)
5 points: 20% (17% + 3%)
Unshakable Line: Each ally within 20' of you increases your stamina regen by 2/4/6/8/10% and party damage by 5/10/15/20/25%.
A more protective path with increased KV and 50% buff (25% ITF + 25% Unshakable Line)
Tactician Path: Inspiring Leader: Now 5 points gives 20% per rank.
1 point: 12% (10% + 2%)
2 points: 14% (12% + 2%)
3 points: 16% (14% + 2%)
4 points: 18% (16% + 2%)
5 points: 20% (18% + 2%)
More buff (ITF 80%) but less KV (5% per aditional rank)
Knights Valor DR - 5% per additional rank, down from 10%
InTo The Fray - 10% base +5% per additional rank (total 25%)
So, now that we know what i sugest as a nerf lets speciallize each class:
Conqueror Path: Does more damage but have less KV (5% per additional rank) and 25% ITF
Protector Path: Brawling Warrior Feat: Now with 5 points gives 20% more DR per additional rank.
1 point: 8% (5% + 3%)
2 points: 11% (8% + 3%)
3 points: 14% (11% + 3%)
4 points: 17% (14% + 3%)
5 points: 20% (17% + 3%)
Unshakable Line: Each ally within 20' of you increases your stamina regen by 2/4/6/8/10% and party damage by 5/10/15/20/25%.
A more protective path with increased KV and 50% buff (25% ITF + 25% Unshakable Line)
Tactician Path: Inspiring Leader: Now 5 points gives 20% per rank.
1 point: 12% (10% + 2%)
2 points: 14% (12% + 2%)
3 points: 16% (14% + 2%)
4 points: 18% (16% + 2%)
5 points: 20% (18% + 2%)
More buff (ITF 80%) but less KV (5% per aditional rank)
GF Your Personal Yeti - Strawberry Yakuza
Post edited by juliofp70 on
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Comments
This is not a nerf thread, its to balance GF based on his paths.
DR from KV only increasing by 5% with Brawling warrior, and it not work with KV rank 4.
tactician depends on itf and offensive stats to do some damage (with this change have more 40% itf damage gived BASED ON DR but lets see)
With this changes:
conqueror with 15k defense = 65% DR
tactician with 15k defense = 65% DR
so conqueror gets 40% of 65% = 26%
tactician gets 80% of 65% = 52%
you have a 26% increased damage on tactician ITF.... but you forget this:
conqueror:
wrathfull warrior: +15%
crushing shield + 20%
cruel cut style +15%
staggering challange +20%
tactical superiority +15% (up from 10%)
reckless atacker: +25%
jagged blades +750% weapon damage
tactician dont have any buff without itf (well, crushing pin that lasts 3s)
Total: 26% to tactician
40-55% to conqueror
Sorry but this is a fair nerf
now for the post itself...
Protector Path: Brawling Warrior Feat: Now with 5 points gives 20% more DR per KV rank. UP FROM 5%
1 point: 8% (5% + 3%)
2 points: 11% (8% + 3%)
3 points: 14% (11% + 3%)
4 points: 17% (14% + 3%)
5 points: 20% (17% + 3%)
what about the dr cap. this makes no sense. at 20% per stack ignoring the dr KV be the new bubble. it will either ignore the dr cap, put incoming dr at 99% or still stop at 80% and a decent gf will have 2 to 3 stupid feat points that don't do anything. either way... stupid.
I haven't got the energy to go on... but my assumption this is just about pvp...
OP bubble cuts 50% damage and the party player still have his own DR to reduce damage taken even more.
For ex: I have 80% DR caped, take 10000 damage (pally cuts 5000 with bubble) and then 80% of 5000 is negated by my DR... So i only take 1000. Now explain me with this changes how kv will be the new bubble.
60% KV means that only someone with 50% personal DR will cap 80% (50 * 0.60 = 30.... 30 + 50 = 80)
but 15% per rank is also an option.
Same here, his comment reveals a lack of knowleadge about GF class
It's funny that you tried to lecture john on game mechanics yet you ended up failing miserably.
Julio, bubble makes you immortal (if you are not the caster), you don't seem to understand how it works. All group members but the OP are invincible when bubble is up as all incoming damage (meaning protected memebers don't lose a single hitpoint... nothing, zero, nada!) is split in 2> bubble absorbs 50% and the Paladin takes the other half.
Let's say you and a op are 2 manning egwd (just an example, I know it sounds crazy eeñven though Lazalia can or could solo it lol), you're fighting Ethraniev Marrowslake as a cw and bubble is up. You get hit by the shadow hands for 1 million》 bubble takes 500k and the paladin takes the rest, which then is mitigated by his dr and skills. That 1 million hit does zero damage to your cw because bubble and paladin took it for you, is that clear?
If you could somehow get a low level to a castle never run and fight orcus, said boss, when hitting the level 1 toon with 1.2% damage resistance wouldn't be able to kill it... why? Because all damage the character takes is split 50/50 by the bubble and the paladin meaning the level 1 toon is left unscratched, that's how it works.
Ask a paladin to run with you, stand in aoes while the bubble is up and take a look at your health... then come back here and tell us if you still think you, the non caster, take any damage (that actually drops any hitpoints) when divine protector is up.null
I'm sure you cannot do that without bonding stones nor a cleric that can buff your dr... can you?
Once bonding stones get patched to give 3 stats in 1 proc only without going further than that and into the fray to not get any damage bonus if you exceed the dr cap (80%), your buffing power will go down considerably (it will be around 38% of what is is now). It will still be good, but not as good it is now. Oh and the hallowed ground + astral shield + itf glitch is going to get patched too, isn't? And you guys still want to downgrade that power at is base level? wow just wow.
What about the guardians that are below the dr cap and don't have bonding stones? Their itf (without buffs, bonding stones or glitches) would be hilariously bad if said ability gets the savage nerfs Julio is hoping for.null
I agree with you 100%, mate. The op doesn't even know well how basic things work in game, yet he makes this post with those weird changes, like, really?
Anyway, a nerf on ITF (which seems to be inevitable at this point) will affect everyone, and will in fact cut the Buff of the players at the higher end of the spectrum the most. Let's say they plan to reduce ITF to just 75% of DR. My 180% will be reduced to +135% damage boost. If someone has 60% DR, then he will have +45% damage buff.
Now, you will probably want to argue that +45% is so low. Why yes, yes it is, but he won't be stuck there forever. We still see GF's getting into parties with 30% DR, heck we even take GF's with no ITF or KV. Everyone who started this game as a GF has been there, it never stopped us. It's the same with DPS classes/builds, you have to start somewhere.
The reality is we obviously need to implement some kind of change. And, if you have read all of the options, you'll most probably come to the same conclusion.
Uh? I wasn't talking about big buffs, you left out most of my post when you quoted me, I clearly stated the only reasons guardians can buff that much and the fixes it would take to work as intended so before quoting me please make sure you actually know what I mean, I don't like repeating things just because people don't pay attention when reading.
An itf working as intended would be like this (as state in tooltip):
You give 100% of your dr as damage bonus but!! but!! here comes there difference: Anything above 80% dr (how itf is supposed to be...) will give no aditional offensive power so it will be a waste, itf won't benefit from hallowed ground/astral shield either buf rather, exclusively by the gf's dr (how it should be).
So, when working as intended, in your case, itf would be a lot less powerful (less than half of what is oa now) but would still be benefitial for dps folks. And don't credit just yourself for the current state of your itf as it makes you lose credibility, we both know your 180%+ damage buff comes from things such as glitches or things not wai, otherwise your buff would not exceed 80%, plain and simple and you know it.
Edit: Man how annoying, I don't know what happened, I replied to you this morning but I just realized something went wrong and my answer wasnt posted, on top of that, most of it got lost...
I totally disagree with those "options", especially because the one who suggested them doesn't seem to understand basic things from the game, just look at how he thinks the bubble works for Sargent Knox's sake! 0.o
Btw I don't understand the point of the rest of your post, you are saying that OPs are better at protecting his party, ok.. so? What does it have to do with augmenting KV? Also, what exactly did OP say that does not agree with what you just said? He said Pally will take 50% (true, same with what you said), he said that this 50% damage taken will be further cut down by the Pally DR (You did not mention this, is this not correct? Is this your point of contention?).
The last part you are still staying that we should keep ITF that way but once you hit 80% DR you are maxed. That's the same thing as the post that I quoted, you want to have max ITF without getting best gears. That's why I did not include it.
Here's the problem with limiting ITF: GF's can reach maximum ITF buff at 2.5k . So... either we move the rest of your progression towards offense or we just stop right there, no more progression needed. Is this what you want? 2.5k ilvl and 3 bondings stones is as good as max?
For other classes, progressing past 2.5k ilvl still gives many benefits. OP's and DC's have power buffs, it also improves their healing depending on their build. For OP tanks it gives them better AP regeneration so they can pop bubble more often, either way there's a reason to continue improving their gears (no need to discuss the other classes).
If you plan to stop at 80% DR for ITF then that's that for tank GFs, if you want to go past 2.5k ilvl then Conqueror is the only good Path to take, after all the only advantage Tacs will have is 5% ITF buff and AP regen, which will be rather pointless when you can just deal 10-15% (conservatively) of the total party dps as well as buffing.
If you read, even that one portion that I took, even if it is out of context, you just said that GF's that don't have enough DR and no bondings will have bad buffs, yes that is true, and it is the same thing with DPS. Do you see GWFs doing tons of damage with bad gears? Why should the GF be different?
Don't be ridiculous, don't make things up, it makes yourself look bad man, and do assume things, it's very annoying. If you next is a bunch of lies and nonsense like this one I'm replying to, I will not bother answering, just so you know.
I'll point out some of your silly points:
Unless you're in a large guild with the 8k defense boon, at 2,5 item level you do not reach the dr cap unless you're super lucky with artifacts and such and even then I doubt it, I've seen 3k+ il gfs from medium guilds (like mine, so no 8k defense boon yet) that have 24k+ defense and their dr is around 78.7% or so.
You cannot have such base (base base base b-a-se, don't miss that word) damage resistance without bonding stones nor could your itf be as optimal (still excelent though) as it is now without being empowered ( by the glitch) by hallowed ground and astral shielsld. My base damage dr is 66.8%.
The only way I can see having 2,5k il and 80% dr would be:
- Super high rank azure enchanments (rank 12 in every possible slot)
- Max rank artifacts
- Elemental elven/dragon flight armor or using dusk armor while in a group
- No enchanments in utility slots so they don't inflate your item level.
- 8k defense boon (aka large guild)
- Mounts (like emperor beetle) and epic insignias
You see, your guess is not reliable because not all 2,5 il guardian fighters can mee those conditions (especially new players) and you know it, don't you?
While bubble is active you, the protected toon, take zero damage, why is it so hard to understand to you? The op made it sound as if you actually can take damage while bubble is active, in his example, he even said the protected toon would take 1k damage for Christ's sake 0.0
Don't you get it? I don't "plan" anything, the dr cap is 80%, itf's buff is not supposed to get any benefit once you get past that point, that's what needs to be fixed and hopefully that will be the case.
What do I want? Things working as intended so they stop making the game less easy.
Once you reach the dr cap, well, at least in my case, I'd try to stack everything else into deflect. I have no reason to put things into offense, my gf's threat generation is good enough to keep bosses on me (of course there can be a few exceptions here and there but that's it) and that's what matter. If orcus keeps attacking my guardian while the healer keeps me alive and the dps folks do their job, that's all that matters. Of course extra damage for soloing can be nice bu meh, I have completed all campaigns already (except pvp and last 2 boons of Tyranny of Dragons) so I don't care.
Oh gosh man, read well before replying and don't make things up nor asume thinflg either. No bondings doesn't mean bad buff, you just go used to broken mechanics and you see them as "normal". Decently built gfs can tank epic content well at barely over 2000 il and sub 50% dr lol, I know that because it was the case with my toon and with knight's valor on all the time, mind you.
Also maybe you can quote where OP said that toons under bubble get damage. I apologize if I missed it, but I did not see it.
Why is bonding a broken mechanic? Because you don't like it? Because it's not DnD? I saw your comment before about removing pvp.
We have alliance now, high boons will become common soon.
And your last paragraph, I don't even know where you pulled that out from. Never said anything against that.
Oh gosh you didn't pay attention when reading Julio's stuff.
Jesus Christ almighty, you even missed the "base base base b-a-s-e" thing... wow just wow. I'm done with you.
I don't even get why you are stressing base defense? You act as if there is a difference between defense that is added to you by your own gears and that which is added to your through boons or companions.
Just Bondings on common companion, no loyal rings even.
If this is what you mean by @juliofp70 being wrong. He is talking about the Oathbound Paladin taking 50% less damage when bubble is up.
From wiki:
This is a complaint tailored more towards pvp than pve content. PVP for a GF is basically the same rotation for everyone....there are exceptions. The conquerer hits harder, the protector can't be put down very easy.....and the tactician? Well the tactician buffs and protects his team, but not himself. Yeah, I see a pattern here.
If it's truly about pve content, then it's still not viable as it punishes the conquerer and protector while helping the tactician.
The conquerer cannot, I repeat cannot inflict enough damage to make up for the daily generation, protection and fray buff a tactician gives his team by way of feats or capstone. Nor the protection of himself and his team by way of the protector tree. Just the fray that he can manage. The conquerer only 'adds' to the damage at a moderate level with his own skills. But that means dumping KV for a damage producing encounter, and squishy teams don't like that in a dungeon.
No balancing between paths needs to happen. Cap fray at 80% and fix the CS/steel blitz glitch. That's it and that is all.
The nerf/fix to the bonding procs will fix a great deal. No more 85k power for dps's or ridiculous fray.
Stacking power is no secret. Stacking defense isn't either.
You say that the 80% max suggestion isn't going to be enough? If I'm reading you right, that is. Well I don't agree. Matter of fact I take it back. Things are just fine with the only really broken mechanic gone.....the bubble.