PVE TR's need a boost in damage

pmswithagun · June 2016

As far as damage dealers go, PVE TR'S aren't getting the same boosts that other classes are such as SW's, GWF'S, and CW's. I know pvp rogues are doing fine but pve rogues not so much. Please address this issue so they can be just as competitive.

talon1970 · June 2016

Well, and i wrote these as an pure PvE Tr as Mainchar since open beta, we have always take a look for pvp (even if we don't play it).
Every time we got an buff (ok only in Mod 5 with the rework) it has such an huge impact (or still has SE as example) in pvp, so the nerf bat came back and we actet worser then before.

So what could have an boost?
dazing strike, lashing blade, smoke, cos, firststrike all these things could be too strong then in pvp...
The only thing i could see is wicked reminder, more dps and changed back as an full aoe attack.

I am glad to be in a guild where our SWs refusing to play with the bugged puppet, we Trs are still the first in an add group for the initial stun and dps so we are always good in the paingiver charts (thefabricant has an good post how paingiver really works)

And actually with an AC/DC in a group, no class can reach temporary more pure, raw power than an TR with buff from an AC/DC and selfbuff with Whirlwind in an large addgroup (320k power was my highest seen in CN and meanwhile all my radiant Enchants are now on R12 so there is more possible^^).

I am with you, that we could have an boost, but as mentioned above, for our class there is always the pvp part.....

greywynd · June 2016

I run a Whisperknife Executioner. I have no problems in PvE with him.

lwedar · June 2016

My cleric has no problems in pve either but I don't think that is the point the OP is trying to make...

demonmonger · June 2016

Tr does not need to be changed for pve

/played 280+days total

karakla1 · June 2016

Seriously, what's up with all these "Class X need to be improved!" threads lately. There is basically no class that can't deal damage. Guys, learn to play. Ask in the class forums for advice.

zibadawa · June 2016

I've never had damage problems with my TR, once suitably spec'd into a proper PvE build. It does more or similar damage with respect to any other class in a dungeon with similar ilvl and companion set-up. SW's are the only ones that can outstrip that, but that's using their exploitable abilities to full effect.

Maybe you just aren't built and geared properly? And are erroneously comparing your 2.4k with an ioun stone to a 3.5k with r12 bondings?

phaadnightsong · June 2016

I have not reached my full potential as of this post, but my main character is a TR and I am a backstabber specialist in Pure PVE.
I tend to have issues when I get too many adds like with the dungeons out in WoD when I solo them, but all in all I think we are pretty good as we are. I have little to no trouble doing the solo heroics in WoD in most cases, so I think it might just be a build issue vs play style. If your build doesn't fit your play style, you will feel like you are under powered. And, keep in mind, while we'd all love to be able to solo everything with whatever class we play (especially TR), it just will not happen, unless there's a really obvious bug.

durugudesu · June 2016

karakla1 said:
Seriously, what's up with all these "Class X need to be improved!" threads lately. There is basically no class that can't deal damage. Guys, learn to play. Ask in the class forums for advice.

indeed.

deathbeez · June 2016

I would like to see TRs get a damage buff for PvE.
OPs also. And legit-build SWs.

greywynd · June 2016

I'd like to see anything my GF sticks his spear into roll over and die with that one hit, too.

tornnomar · June 2016

TR's are always going to be under the microscope because of the PVP aspect. How dare a single target character be good at single target damage in PVP! This is obviously sarcastic, but will help illustrate my point.
The answer is not to boost other classes so that they can compete, the answer is that the devs really need to address all the broken feats, broken enchants, skills that send power into outer space, and a host of other things.
They say they fixed X, but fixing X broke Y and Z, to fix Y and Z, they break...well there are 23 other letters that can be used here...

hadestemplar · June 2016

pmswithagun said:
As far as damage dealers go, PVE TR'S aren't getting the same boosts that other classes are such as SW's, GWF'S, and CW's. I know pvp rogues are doing fine but pve rogues not so much. Please address this issue so they can be just as competitive.

My fellow NWO player.
First of all, from your post I think u haven't met well geared TR during epic dungeons. First before Start everything u have to remember what TR is in first place and what his role he/she takes.
TR is best single target elimination class. Thats mean he is not best slaughter when comes mass monster elimination . But when Tr hits eDemogorgon from back, he hit hard. And damage output is high, and if u play properly it can easy rival other classes.. TR is same as warlock.. all dmg start to shine when fight last longer than 1 min. In other words stronger monsters is, more benefits u so.

Also speaking about buff.. At this current mod.. Neverwinter have more buffed toons than any other game. It can actually rival lineage 2 which I consider game around buffs. So my friend i think there are enough of buffs.. And now its time for every class player to learn properly handle own toon.
Even if u are not number one or number 2 by paingiving, or killing. trust me u can be way more useful than any other in party...
For example I had Pure healind dedicated DC. I was in bottom by dps, killing, even bad by buffing. But when I was in party.. It was rare that anyone would die. Even undergeared toon could go in heavy battle

So first rule is finally found own role within party..

demonmonger · June 2016

If you are TR and having troubles in pve
List your
Power:
Deflect:
Lifesteal:
Critical:
Recovery:
Encounters

Thanks

hadestemplar · June 2016

magenubbie said:

Funny thing is, reaching top paingiver and winning the "who's the better killer" game (executioner) come naturally when you do exactly that. After the broken GWF and SW obviously. There's no competing with broken classes and you shouldn't be bothered to get upset by them beating you in those scores.

Funny, in last 10 days time period I have been in dungeons and so, Tr's, Hr's,cw's who where on top by killing.
I play with warlock, and neither its so broken as here in forum guys claims.. I been with DC + GF in party and never manage to hit so called uber dmg. Neither I where on top by dmg output.. While some guys play with Tr, hr,cw who where not in any guild and where number 1 by killing and paingiving..

Tr is assasination specialist, thats mean its not desinged to go in front of group monsters show them midle finger and easy kill them all.
Tr is good when comes strong< single target elemination. Enough to check edemogorgon fights, Tr don't try face demogorgon in head2head battle. Most trs which I so, they hit in back, once its turn back on tr. And damage output is huge.

magenubbie said:
Anyway, those scores are useless, circumstantial and don't give a clear picture of your performance. They only have limited value when you play the game with the same 5 people in exactly the same way every time. Which is almost never. It's not worth getting grudges over.

Well my friend, I would be extreme happy if devs would remove these killer, paingiver statistics from this game..

Once guys enter epic dungeons is start racing, who will be better killer, better paingiving.. However overall teamwork gone.
For example, since underdark mod release, I met only 1 CW who used arcane singularity. That daily power is not striking one, but for CC, he gathered all monsters in one group, than we all as >team< wiped them all.
In boss fight Tr avoided to get hed2head fight with boss as now some try do... But did hits from back in right moments and all went OK.
If u stick with your role within party, then u do good damage. but once guys start building rocket engine from paper. They screw up and start complain. Thats including all classes,, HR, TR, SW,CW,GWF,GF,OP.

gu3sto · June 2016

demonmonger said:
If you are TR and having troubles in pve

List your

Power: 26

Deflect: 1.7

Lifesteal: 7.8

Critical: 9.8

Recovery: 5.2

Encounters: dazing strike. lashing blade, smoke bomb

Thanks

You're welcome

jugger71 · June 2016

Reduce that crit, increase your recovery and call it good. TRs have 100% crit while in stealth.

izwor · June 2016

Except bugged SW with puppet hitting for milions of damage TR is best DPS you can get for single target and second best after GWF for AoE.
You need to remember that item level isn't everything. With new Mounts and Isignia Bonuses, Bondings on Companions, good Active Companions choice, Stronghold Boons there is a lot more than item level shows.

About paingiver in general, it counts hits for milions of dmg (eg. IBS GWF on mob that has 500k HP, or Puppets in the same situation) which trully does not matter, while TR cannot hit that hard from a single attack (except Executioner Capstone- SoD).

Next time you go to dungeon try this set of skills:
Skilfull and Invisible Infiltrator - class feature

Single Target:
Smoke Bomb, Stealth, Wicked Remnider (use it to reactivate SoD on boss), Impossible to Catch only if needed, to stay as long as possible next to boss
Lurkers Assault - use to regain Stealth - reactivate SoD, dmg boost is nice too
Duelist Flurry - Use as much as possible

AoE (weak enemies):
Whirlwind of Blades - best to start combat whith it
Smoke Bomb, Stealth, Dazing Strike, Blade Flurry 4x
Sly Flurish to finish whats left or Duelist Flurry on hard/big mobs

What to remember?
Duelist Flurry and it's bleed effect is up to 50% of your damage.
Shadow of Demise is up to 10% of your damage.
Encounters counts for 10-20% of your damage depending on dungeon
Wheel of Elements - fire boost is up to 5% of dmg
Other buffs like Lostmouth Set (1-3%), Magistrates Patience (1-2%)
Party buffs (eg. OP Radiant Aura up to 10%),

DC can buff your whole party damage almost twice, GF even more. That is why boss fights do not last long and TR has less time to shine. And this is why we have broken SWs with puppets arround.

GL.

lwedar · June 2016

macjae said:

tornnomar said:
TR's are always going to be under the microscope because of the PVP aspect. How dare a single target character be good at single target damage in PVP! This is obviously sarcastic, but will help illustrate my point.
The problem with TRs in PvP are a bit more involved than that. It's more like this:
1. They have far, far too much in the way of survival tools, making them by far one of the hardest classes to kill. They're the opposite of a squishy class, but they're supposed to be squishy. Everything else about them would be fine if they were actually squishy.
2. They actually don't deal much damage. They have one devastating attack (Shocking Execution) and mediocre damage apart from that (or possibly exploiting some particular bugs).
3. Shocking Execution is particularly bad against two classes, that have no way to mitigate the damage.
4. TRs in PvP excel at cc far moreso than damage -- Smoke Bomb being invisible when cast, Courage Breaker ignoring cc immunities, dazes from Shadow Strike or Dazing Strike.
5. Because of their feats and the fact that stealth grants 100% crit chance, TRs can ignore a couple of offensive stats and focus only on Power and Recovery.

TRs getting more consistent higher damage from their encounters would be entirely fine in a PvP context if they simultaneously adjusted Shocking Execution to work more like it used to, and heavily toned down TR survival ability.

There are plenty of classes that have both high damage and high survival ability. I hope this balancing patch helps adjust across the board.

greywynd · June 2016

magenubbie said:

On that we are in agreement. It meant nothing in the past and still doesn't. The only use it has is an excuse to kick players or criticize performance.

Good for getting the titles. Nothing more.

nightbringer121 · June 2016

So all of You who said that TR is perfectly okay are trying to tell me that it's perfectly normal for pug groups announce their search for players like this? "LFM CN 3k+ (No TR!)" are you telling me that it's okay that once you pick up TR you automatically dont wan't to do pve at all and you don't need to be invited by other players into higher tier dungeons? And no it's not a single occasion it happens quite often that as a TR i won't get an invite just because I am TR. This issue seriously needs to be resolved sooner or later...

izwor · June 2016

Find guild with good alliance. Stop runing pugs.

TRs are fine where they are. The only reason people don't want random TRs in their party is weak PvE wise TRs with 4k toons that play 'PvP only' and have no clue about PvE.
It is not as bad as it was in mod3, when the only class needed for any content was CW and GWF.

Have you ever seen on /lfg chat LF2M HR/TR/CW? no, why?
Couse SWs are bugged and GWFs have one set of skill for everything.
Easy to play, easy to be good, even if you're not that good player.
To play TR you need to know the class, have good build and gear and master your skills/powers rotation to compete with other top DPSs. The same is for HR, which is even more difficult to play.

But... while most GWFs and SWs bring only DPS, you may stun/daze to help party, save the day with revive at boss, solo kill boss while other party members are deqad, etc. The game is not only about DPS. And... playing TR is pure fun.

plasticbat · June 2016

nightbringer121 said:
So all of You who said that TR is perfectly okay are trying to tell me that it's perfectly normal for pug groups announce their search for players like this? "LFM CN 3k+ (No TR!)" are you telling me that it's okay that once you pick up TR you automatically dont wan't to do pve at all and you don't need to be invited by other players into higher tier dungeons? And no it's not a single occasion it happens quite often that as a TR i won't get an invite just because I am TR. This issue seriously needs to be resolved sooner or later...

You need to joint a good guild and then you can forget about pug.

itbls · June 2016

You're just playing tr wrong or build your tr wrong. Most of the rogues you see in pugs are pvp spec so they look like trash in pve. Their is one thing they need to change back and that's Shadow of Demise when it use to proc on the mobs tr hit and not just one single mob. That ninja Nerf was dumb and they didn't even include it in any patch notes.

itbls · June 2016

magenubbie said:

plasticbat said:

nightbringer121 said:
So all of You who said that TR is perfectly okay are trying to tell me that it's perfectly normal for pug groups announce their search for players like this? "LFM CN 3k+ (No TR!)" are you telling me that it's okay that once you pick up TR you automatically dont wan't to do pve at all and you don't need to be invited by other players into higher tier dungeons? And no it's not a single occasion it happens quite often that as a TR i won't get an invite just because I am TR. This issue seriously needs to be resolved sooner or later...
You need to joint a good guild and then you can forget about pug.
Agreed. Pug takes nothing but the elites. And a TR does no AoE damage and doesn't overbuff the already overgeared party, so they "slow down" the run. The fact they compensate for that during the bosses is conveniently ignored. It's always been like that. Shunned in PvE, hated in PvP, good at both.

Best way to deal with this is remove /lfg from your chat window and join a guild and/or /legit (-like channel). That's how every normal TR does it and it will make your game much more enjoyable.

"does no AoE damage"
Shows how much you know about rogues.

PVE TR's need a boost in damage

Comments