The bubbles broken, what you using now?

onetruknight · June 2016

So.. After respecting five different times. I'm having trouble landing a solid build for my prot. Pally.. I am completely at a loss. With threat gain being so broken. I'm really starting to feel as the days of the tanking pally is over. Most people I know rolled heals.

Group que's are a joke.. And with no gaurentee to get an actual healer.. It's almost hopeless..

For example. Group make up two protection OP, GWF, SW, TR this was in a que for a epic CN. Yeah.. Even with us synchronizing are bubble spams. And alternating off and on with different dailys we were still getting owned.

It wasn't till we pulled in a Guardian fighter into the group before we were successful.. Now we are three tanking the final boss.. This is ridiculous..

I have tried so many different possibilities.. Trying my hardest to raise my overall damage MIT. But nothing seems to be working.

So please any help you all could give or input..

Thank you.

midental · June 2016

Hi

i'm OP and i'm permabubble after the nerf. Obviusly is not like in the past. Is a challenge to remain perma but i can cast bubble every 8 second (i f under devoted sigil is istantaneus).

The real thing is that player need to re-learn to play. Now in dungeons players MUST escape from red zone (not stay inside like in the past). If your party know how to play the bubble is still efficent and near to perma.

I think that now i'm 3450 IL but early will be 3700 and bubble will be really perma again.

Remember that permabubble is useseless if your party stay in the red. Try to do CN with this tactic and you will discover a new paladin very very nice to play

ketthoover · June 2016

I'm a bubble, I haven't touched him since nerf.

Curious about the build you are using to get perma still, encounters etc. or maybe you know stat goals to get there. I was perma but I never got a snail and I now think I am SOL on using this character. May have to respec to a healadin idk. May make sense since dc meta is now dps buff/debuff. Just hurts as gear etc may be completely wrong and require more farming.

I think the damage reduction from 80% to 50% is more of a nerf than the duration to bubble. As you said people can't sit in the red anymore like they did. But, they still can with gf so people will want to avoid Pallys now.

I really wish they had at least buffed the tanky side of the pally to provide some viable dps. The OP is supposed to be a hybrid toon but now he's just a healer that's better than a dc or a tank that does same or less dps while being less tanky than a gf. If they were viable dps you could rationalize being a support dps/tank.

zman81420 · June 2016

Roll a GF and come over to the darkside.

blindmonkeyz · June 2016

Definately, i stripped my Pally of all his enchants. Rebuilt my GF that was one of my mains back in mods 4 and 5 and got him to 4k now. Learning how much i missed playing a GF

ketthoover · June 2016

null

I picked up extra slots last summer to start an army, then found out about the leadership nerf around mod 6.

I rolled 1 of each character, so I have a gf. Issue is I never played with him, he has just leveled through invoking and leadership. Never selected paragon or anything. He's lvl 70 now, but has no boons etc. put a lot of time effort into OP he became main when mod 6 hit as my TR took major nerf.

I like to main a dps and support, so most of last 8 mo have been focused on GWF and OP, then if play a little on my TR since he had so much stuff. Lately I've been really enjoying my TR and even seeing him out perform GWF, so I just hate to think I'm dumping both.

ketthoover · June 2016

Suggestions on GF build?

Top on mmominds is ackter and mushroom.

ninefingersbaru · June 2016

I feel your pain. The nerfs are real!

I have a 3.6k item level oath of protection. Prior to the nerfs I was perma-bubble and could take Demo on epic demo and Orcus in CN without the aid of an AP tank or haste cleric.

Last week when the nerf came in I was reintroduced to what it was like to feel incorrectly spec'd and poorly equipped.

My guild mate and I spent the entire weekend looking at what we could do. Like most we were both heavy in Justice with a few points in light.

We've changed our focus from perma-bubble to perma-binding oath (or as close to as possible)

Still using Oath of protection but have now gone heavy in light and the rest in bulwark. I'm not in front of my game atm but basically we looked at certain feats that would help increase damage resistance as well as cooldown timer. Justice offers the cool downs but it's more DPS than Tank IMO.

For bulwark I've put 5 points in each of the following Unflinching Resolve, Stand Fast, Sancitity
For Light I went with 5 points in Seraphim, Gifts of Light, Warriors Bastion, Aura Gifts, Holy Bonds and 1 point in Redemption

I'm going to drop the 5 points in Gifts of Light and Aura Gifts and put them into light touched and echoing heals. We've tested and it seems that the right bumper (redemption) is counting as a healing spell and will proc light touched and echoing heals.

The thought process is that we will sacrifice our DPS in order to spot heal our GWF's (cause you know there are tons of them running around)

We've started to use Shield of Faith instead of Divine Protector - it lasts longer and with our AP gain we can keep popping it with little to no downtime.

I've also gone to using Aura of Protection and Aura of Truth rather than Aura of Wisdom and Aura of Vengeance. If I feel like I'm not getting enough cooldown I will switch out Truth for Wisdom.

My guildmate runs a summoned Mercenary with bonding stones, I'm using the Angel of protection from the Piety store.

I'm mixed on the Angel - it does add some healing and more damage mitigation (casts the equiv of GF's Knights Valor) however I don't really see companions gift proc during combat, I see it when I'm out of combat (not sure if it's glitching or if its because it's a healer and not striker)

Occasionally we can still get 1 shot by Orcus... but that dudes a beast so we can live with the occasional 1 shot from him.

asjohnson · June 2016

Bubbles can, and I have seen, them still be perma-bubble. All the incorrect information out there, people were led to assume that bubbles will be obsolete....but they are not. You can still be perma, it is possible, and it is still a good way to go through dungeons.

onetruknight · June 2016

@ninefingersbaru#2832 seems legit. Why not I'll give it a go.. Can you tell me what your stats look like..

ninefingersbaru · June 2016

Yes I can still just about permabubble with my AP gain, but I prefer to use it situationally now rather than all the time. If someone goes down I'll bubble so they can get picked up, or bubble after they are picked up to make sure they are not instantly 1 shot. I'll also use the bubble on the Illithilich (2nd boss in CN) when the boxes come up to show where the spikes are when the ceiling and floor change.

But I'm seeing better tanking results with Divine Shield than I am with Diving protector (bubble)

The problem with the bubble is not so much the shorter duration (it's a super fast 6 seconds) it's the loss of damage resistance - I'm sure once people remember that red spots on ground = bad or the ones that never played back in Mod 4 or 5 learn for the first time that red on ground = bad, it won't be as dangerous to use.

Personally CN should have it's item level requirement increased to 2500 and the nerfs wont be nearly as bad as they are at the moment (2k GWF's trying to get Orcus set - and have never played where they have to avoid red)

onetruknight · June 2016

@asjohnson#4476 the only way I can see being a perma bubble is ONLY in the presence of an AP tank.. The haste cleric is dead..so there's no hope from them anymore. I will agree that people became lazy with the bubble.. And avoided leaving the bad spots. Not only do pallys have to re learn to play the class. But everybody may need to relearn to dungeon correctly. I've spent so much money trying to get my pally correct. It's just sickening that they would go so extreme with this Nerf.

asjohnson · June 2016

Yea, the nerf was extreme. But I literally just got done with a CN run with a 3.4k Pally from Cold Blooded. He kept the bubble up the whole time. The only other support class was a buff/debuff DC. I don't know how he was perma, but he dam sure was lol

ninefingersbaru · June 2016

onetruknight said:
@ninefingersbaru#2832 seems legit. Why not I'll give it a go.. Can you tell me what your stats look like..

Yeah I can post it when I'm home. Basically I had been stacking all Radiant in both offensive and defensive prior to nerf.

I'm going to keep the Radiant in my defense slots (guild has defense boon and I'm feated for extra def from equipment) and I'm going to mix in some silvery into my offensive slots.

I've got twisted main and off hand (both are legendary) and I'm somewhere around 18k power, 9k recovery, and 13k defense (I can be more exact later)

I'm using greater plated belt of Constitution and Tiamat's necklace (both legendary). Artifacts im using Sigil of devoted (main artifact) Thyan book of the dead, Wheel of Elements, and Heart of the Black Dragon (all mythic)

Dragonflight head, arms, and feet (power /recovery) and elemental Elven chest (power/recovery)

I think my rings are +4 brutality and +4 sudden defense.

That might give you an idea of where my stats are sitting till I can get exact stats posted.

armadeonx · June 2016

What they should've done was remove the bubble completely and replaced it with a pure tanking skill, e.g. one that forces all enemies within aura range to attack the pally for 10-12 secs.

The pally would just need to get enough AP gain to keep that active and put the rest on defence. Getting to 80% DR is not hard and the pally assumes a proper tank role.

With players being able to achieve perma-bubble again it's quite likely they will do a second nerf to it - effectively burying the class. They need to go back to the drawing table and actually fix threat generation. The pally currently needs the bubble because its group damage reduction is insufficient to counter enemy attacks in T2s.

ninefingersbaru · June 2016

I changed up my companions post nerf, but a combination of yeti and dread warrior will help a bubble pally keep agro - not to mention have a chance at making your toon as big as Orcus or Demo - which is HILARIOUS to see.

asjohnson · June 2016

ninefingersbaru#2832 said:
I changed up my companions post nerf, but a combination of yeti and dread warrior will help a bubble pally keep agro - not to mention have a chance at making your toon as big as Orcus or Demo - which is HILARIOUS to see.

Wait, what power makes the Pally get huge? I've seen the GF do it, but I've never seen a pally do it

telprydain · June 2016

ninefingersbaru#2832 said:

We've changed our focus from perma-bubble to perma-binding oath (or as close to as possible)
.

I can more or less do that, but the big question for me is… So what? So what if I can bind all day long?
I mean, I’m invincible – but how exactly is that helping the team. The joy of the bubble wasn’t that it was a buff for us, it was the ability to protect everyone else. But with threat and taunts broken, how exactly does binding oath keep our team alive?
I can face tank Orcus, but nothing is stopping him from turning around and stomping the GWF/TR. I can tank the spider queen, but can’t get aggro of the hordes of adds that fill the arena.
From what I’ve seen, we can’t keep aggro like a GF, and our buffs aren’t as good as a GF or DC.

I want to roll as a protection cleric, but in every single case the healer seems to offer a better boost to the team.

stpensive · June 2016

asjohnson#4476 said:

Wait, what power makes the Pally get huge? I've seen the GF do it, but I've never seen a pally do it

The Yeti companion, not a power...

armadeonx · June 2016

The problem is one of mind-set as much as skills. With bubble previously being the only purpose to a pally, everyone maxed out recovery and AP gain at the expense of everything else - understandably.

Threat generation is a completely different subject though, and not one which Pallys have had to consider before.

Each enemy rates party members threat based on how much damage or healing they put out - your recovery & defence mean nothing to it and the 'taunt' skills give a short boost to your current threat but even with the protection paths x5 threat multiplier, that's not enough to out-threat a high dps class with current specs.

To generate sufficient threat and run a proper aggro tank you need your dps output to be higher than 1/5th of the top DPS dealers output in your group. If they are dealing 100 mill, you need to do over 20 mill.

That means bringing your RI to above 55% for a start - most pallys I see have negligible RI. You'll probably also need to lose some of that all-precious recovery to increase crit & power.

You don't need to out dps anyone but you do need to be within range so your x5 threat multiplier can do the rest.

The bubble is a crutch - and a bad one, in that it takes all your resources just for that one skill. As I said above, they need to remove it completely and replace it with a 100% forced taunt skill that makes everything in aura range come at you - and stay on you.

pr3stigex · June 2016

stpensive said:

asjohnson#4476 said:

Wait, what power makes the Pally get huge? I've seen the GF do it, but I've never seen a pally do it
The Yeti companion, not a power...

lol I was wonder if my unstoppable was glitched, I keep getting big without hitting unstoppable, now I know. Is it "blood thirsty" that makes you grow? Although I have never grown to the size of orcus lol wtf.

asjohnson · June 2016

I use a yeti on my play too, but I have never gotten that big.

oggycz · June 2016

I play PC version. I am 3.1 IL protection pally. After nerf I switched to Shield of faith for party in critical situation. And Lay on hands, when something terrible happens to me. I use perfect negation and trans. feytouched for better survivability. Aura of radiance, when need to hold aggro. It worked well for eDemo. I am experimenting with Bane for bosses, very good buff and debuff for party members, but 0 AP gain for me.

telprydain · June 2016

armadeonx said:

That means bringing your RI to above 55% for a start - most pallys I see have negligible RI. You'll probably also need to lose some of that all-precious recovery to increase crit & power.

You don't need to out dps anyone but you do need to be within range so your x5 threat multiplier can do the rest.

All of that is true - and part of it will be for the other classes to learn to control their DPS - don't go waving your sword/spells around indiscriminately if you don't want to get subsequently ganked by the aggro. Learn to focus fire on groups you can handle.
But be that as it may, I'm still struggling to find my footing. Some of the builds I've tried really excel at specific situations - healing seems great at Orcus, Prot is great at eToS with lower-level groups
I'm just wondering if there's a prot build that can build aggro with healing... but I'm not sure that'd work.

satniteeduardo · June 2016

If you have 2 well built pre nerf perma bubbles and are coordinated then you should have a bubble up at all times. Please don't tell me it takes longer than 10 seconds to refresh the bubble. Whether that is the best way to go or not I will leave up to others but a 10 second bubble refresh is very doable.

armadeonx · June 2016

telprydain said:

armadeonx said:

That means bringing your RI to above 55% for a start - most pallys I see have negligible RI. You'll probably also need to lose some of that all-precious recovery to increase crit & power.

You don't need to out dps anyone but you do need to be within range so your x5 threat multiplier can do the rest.
All of that is true - and part of it will be for the other classes to learn to control their DPS - don't go waving your sword/spells around indiscriminately if you don't want to get subsequently ganked by the aggro. Learn to focus fire on groups you can handle.
But be that as it may, I'm still struggling to find my footing. Some of the builds I've tried really excel at specific situations - healing seems great at Orcus, Prot is great at eToS with lower-level groups
I'm just wondering if there's a prot build that can build aggro with healing... but I'm not sure that'd work.

Personally I don't think the prot pally has enough healing power to make it worth the effort. I'd go with aggro and everyone else just needs to remember the old mod 5 thing of 'red is bad' and move it.

My pally is still a week or 2 away from a proper trial but I've been running with 4 points in aura of radiance and the results are positive. A bit more work on his offence stats should hopefully get him to a working position.

theopv · June 2016

pr3stigex said:

stpensive said:

asjohnson#4476 said:

Wait, what power makes the Pally get huge? I've seen the GF do it, but I've never seen a pally do it
The Yeti companion, not a power...

lol I was wonder if my unstoppable was glitched, I keep getting big without hitting unstoppable, now I know. Is it "blood thirsty" that makes you grow? Although I have never grown to the size of orcus lol wtf.

Its not just the yeti, its the yeti and merc. Both have the chance of making you grow. When they proc together is when you go super size

theopv · June 2016

As for the whole bubble/tank argument there are many factors that we pallys have to consider. The damage reduction from 80% to 50% is huge. Orcus will hit huge and taking 50% of it is gonna smart. My recovery is currently at 13.5k and my cooldown on binding oath is 12 seconds so I can hit binding oath, wait till it gets to 5 seconds, hit divine call, hit templars wrath then go back into binding oath. Works most of the time. There are times that I swear I have hit it but the game takes no notice and I die. There is no point having a bubble if you are not in binding oath as all you will do is die. I have found that I have gone from being a "yay a pally" in dungeons to "oh, was hoping for a GF". I have 1600 AP gain from various things, the weapon set that can give 25% of AP 25% of the time, the snail which I got ages ago cos it was funny and am glad I did!
Pally is not fun any more!!! Have levelled a GF and am currently playing and having fun with that. Will wait until others post their results and have a play then.

I tried Orcus with a pug team and found that it was so unpredictable and difficult to plan ahead to tank the dude. I ran the same with my GF which is 300IL lower and even though I dont fully understand how to tank effectively with it we ran it three times without many problems.

armadeonx · June 2016

I'm led to believe they are working on pally threat gen. If they do come back with a fix any time soon I can see the pally assuming to old role of the GF - aggro magnet. We just don't have the group buffs to compete with GF's so it's the only thing left - or healadin ofc.

That means the pally with need to run at 80% DR without bubble and binding oath may fall out of favor - I mean, only 20% feedback + maxed at pally HP makes it almost pointless already.

Going full on defence stat + dps spec makes much more sense these days.

colin · June 2016

i am totally screwed with this game a lot of my friends are looking at leaving the game
Have spent a lot of time and money in building my pally to have it nerfed so badly
they are making it so that its a game for individuals rather than a team effort

onetruknight · June 2016

@colin#7788 where as I will agree with you in the amount of money being spent to not only gear and gem a certain way in order to be effective in a dungeon. However I will have to disagree a small amount when it comes thier purpose of this redicoulous Nerf. The reason it happened because the perma bubble DID NOT allow for a team effort of play. It was more or less us doing what ever we could to keep our bubbles up.. At that point it didn't matter what the rest did.. They are trying to build team effort. Now with that being said. The way they Nerf out the palidin without giving us a much needed fix to threat gain was extremely wrong on their part. So believe me I understand the frustration when it comes to this Nerf.

Its really sad what they did. I could understand nerfing the timer OR the damage it mitigates.. But both, really come on.

There is a gentleman that has posted up his talent spec here in this chat. I have tried it and it works, ehhh...OK. I still haven't had the chance to talk to him one on one to learn his rotation. I can honestly say threat gain is still an issue, even more now that we can't protect our party members from damage anymore.

I still feel as if the day of the bubble is dead. My current rotation and dailys doesn't even include the bubble daily anymore. And it won't not until other people learn to dungeon.. And that may take awhile.

The bubbles broken, what you using now?

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