That is also the problem. Players with 4.2k IL calling anyone lower IL than them scrubs and pugs. I would love to see these BIS guys try to PVP with 2k IL.
whats the problem in that? i dont judge them based only on 2k item level, but most of them are scrubs.. i have a 2.5k item level iGWF for PvE , and i am also judged by PvE players, they remove me from their parties etc. even thou i outdamage them quite frequently and i am always top3 dps.
So discrimination is done by every player in game , right? its not only PvP.
If i were a 2k item level and i would PvP , i would do the possible that ican to win the match, and that's by cappin the nodes and try to be a team player, do i see any 2k item level do that? they either are doing anti-play, they are either playin like TRs with first strike, and run away without caring about the nodes, or either they go 4 players on 1 node to get slaughtered, when PvP domination is about obtainin points by cappin and keepin the nodes. i've solo qued and those 2k item level are doing exactly the opposite of what needs to be done, so why would i wish to DOWNGRADE my toon to their LEVEL of scrubness ? no boons , no insginias fine. and then we have r12 and transcendents and mythic artifacts we remove them aswell. While everything will be removed until you will be satisfied you will realize that you will still be fightin the same matches as before.
when it could be easier to keep those 2k item level away from BiS players, atleast in PvP domination , make GauntleGrym of SH PvP that way you desire. Make it rewarding, but do not ruin PvP domination with your wishes.
right now the most important thing is that there isn't a premade que , and we need one, second to that we need class balance, no removal of everything, because they aren't that bad for now, since there are plenty of way to work around it.
HR players complain about their lack of burst damage , other classes complain about HRs that they are controllin to much with their dazes/disables/roots etc. CW players complain about their lack of burst damage and that they have to use shield on tab, other classes complain about CWs that they spam repel way to often and their chaotic regrowth. SW players complain their lack of burst damage. other classes complain about SWs that they are hard to catch and these past few modules they are takin less and less damage, and they healing quite alot GWF players complain their lack of burst damage and the stack system being hard to achieve, other classes complain about GWFs that they are healing quite alot and being hard to kill.
Fix these 4 classes and you will have fun PVP matches.
last time i checked GFs / TRs are fun to play GFs can one rotate. TRs have a good daily and good utility encounters, the only 2 classes that stand a chance in beating a paladin or a cleric.
so yea remove boons and insignias cause we will all play a GFs, TRs , paladins and clerics.
they can do nothing anyway, even if they perfectly theorycraft their gameplay, it make ZERO difference,they will be roflstomped, others teamates will be roflstomped only it takes few seconds more ...
and they know it and dont bother queing anymore
there is already not much to stomp anymore, some AD-junkeys or nubs who dare to step in PVP rest in peace and gl to the player who queue, desperately try to stick with their broken gear, how many fun matches out of ten doing solo queue?
these guys from pvp guilds just dont fully understand pvp in this game protected by gear and premades. i am sure majority of them just quit after a month when they start NWO as a new game nowadays. their advices here are so funny
they can say them "l2p scrubs", but they have nowhere to learn anything and their possible learning make zero difference
I do not condemn anyone and I do aggree that lot´s of this issue is made by the developper but I do not agree with most of these arguments at all. Following these advises nothing will change and nothing will improve as long as I do not implement a PVP wich is 1. easy to step and in case you like it 2. automatically improves your char by doing PVP in form of some PVP focussed talents and maybe 4 pieces of gear you can farm, done, nothing else needed to show your skill, in case you got none it was all about your gear 3. what we got atm is a game putting godlike chars vs 2k player
in case you want to play a PVP focussed game wich bases on PVP it´s definitely the wrong game imo, even those games, if F2P, are not that gear focussed
all in all PVP fails due to the fact that NWO is free to play or more pay to play regarding PVP
if you are reffering to stronghold boons, i am against removing them, not only that we worked alot of time for them, but they are fine for now. but talkin about boons and insignias i belive you are reffering to the amount of healing they can offer.
so let me say it as example my GWF, it's a STRIKER class, as a strike class he can get healings from: - Sharandar boon : Elven Tranquility 20.000 hp heal every 1 minute. - Dread Ring boon: Enraged Regrowth 20.000 hp healing (4ticks of 5000 hp) heal every 1 minute. - Elemental Evil boon : Gale of Retribution 24.000h p healing (4ticks of 6000 hp ) heal every 1 minute.
Drowned weapons : heals me 50% of my max hitpoints for 30s and 30s downtime, there are 15 ticks 1 tick every 2s of 5.721 hp a total of 85.815 hp (max hp 171.000).
Lifesteal 17.5% chance + Endless Consumption : whenever you lifesteal you get 3x times that amount : so if i deal a hit of 20k damage and that boon proccs it will be 20k x3 = 60.000 hp healing , if i deal 100k damage hit thats 300.000 hp healing.
Wheel of elements: water buff ,: heal for 100% maximum hitpoints over 30s, it has 20ticks every 1.5s with the amount of 8.581 hp per tick x 20 ticks = 171.000 hp.
^All of the Above are subject to healing depression and incoming healing bonus v All of the Bellow aren't subject to healing depression and incoming healing bonus
PVP potion + Stronghold Boon :Healing potion bonus increases the amount of healings from potions by 48% so having 171.000 HP , the healing potion has 4 ticks total of healing 1tick every 3s for 12s with a cooldown of 2minutes = 15689 hphealings x 4 ticks = 62.758 hp
Drowned pants and shirt 1k every 3s for 1 minute you get 60s/3s = 20s = 20 times x 1k = 20.000 hp per minute that only if you crit Insignias:
Survivor's Blessing Whenever you Deflect an attack, you are healed for 3% of your maximum Hit Points over 4 seconds. myself having 171.000 hp , it's 1,287 HP every 1s over 4s it's 5.148 hp. With 30% deflect you can easily have it 100% of the time while you are getting attacked , because 1/3 hits , it will surerly be deflect, so if you are in a fight for 60s it will be 100% of the time so 1,287x60s = 77.220 , ofc this depends on what class you are playing, but since i am a GWF , i am always taking damage.
Vampire's Craving Whenever you perform a Lifesteal, you are healed for 3% of your maximum Hit Points over 4 seconds. the same formula goes for it as it goes for deflect, but since i am a GWF i am not able to procc it 100% of the time, but classes such as SW or HRs that are attacking their enemies 100% of the time with their dots, the healing is 100% of the time up.
Oppressor's Reprieve Whenever you are Stunned, Knocked, or Immobilized, you are healed for 4% of your maximum Hit Points over 4 seconds. this is 1,716 hp every 1s for me , 6.864 hp for 4s , ofc this is proccing only when i am controlled , it proccs alot of times when i fight a HR ,or a TR with smoke bomb, it doesn't procc when i fight another GWF.
Champion's Struggle Whenever you are reduced to 50% Hit Points, you instantly recover 10% of your Stamina and are healed for 10% of your maximum Hit Points over 10 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 60 seconds. it's 3,421 hp every second for 10s with a total of 34.210 hp , while it proccs most of the times when i fight against a TR, GF or another GWF.
What i can say is that insignias are proccing differently based on what class you are up against,, and this is fine, while the other sources of healing doesn't count that much with who you are fighting against, if i were to ask for anything that needs to be reworked/removed are:
1. Remove Endless consumtion 2. Nerf the wheel of elements from 100% to 50%. 3. Make the Elven Tranquility, Enraged Regrowth and Gale of Retribution exactly how insignias are, to not be affected by healing depression or incoming healing bonus. 4. Drowned weapons should have 2minutes cooldown. (it proccs for 30s, and hte downtime should be 1 minute 30s)
anything else to add i would say that some classes need a buff on their weapon damage and some additional rework on their damage bonuses. ex: HR, CW, GWF, SW while TR, and GF are performing better with the healing above because they have burst damage, so burst vs healing over time it's a WIN. the GWF would be in here too, only if a build like INTIMIDATION was in the past was ipresent nowadays. The last buff on the weapon damage was in module 6, when players barerly got around 100k HP , nowadays gettin 171.000 hp - 220.000 hp will be a piece of cake, therefor there needs to be a increasement in damage somewhere for some classes that are lacking.
I can't stop laughing at this post due their own hypocrisy: A lot of players here want a balanced PvP game yet they scream "please, don't nerf the mechanics that make me OP!" .
"Remove all" is not balance, if you want balance you first start fixing some clases, for example, and as many people think, GF and TR. Just figure how is posible tr have a daily that can hit more than 100k (that is ridiculous), TR can shocking a BIS gwf for 120k, CW can ice knife a BIS gwf for 15k, is that balance?. And GF ... well every one knows.
Second, if you want balance, you improve the queue system (I have posted this before). You need to take away some healing?, yes, and lancer explain it very well.
And finally, what is your argument to take away SH bonusses?. I mean is just ridiculous, 1vs1 can't not be done right now becouse nobody dies, without SH (lot of damage lost) it will be even harder.
So when we talk about balance, we have to talk with arguments.
I can't stop laughing at this post due their own hypocrisy: A lot of players here want a balanced PvP game yet they scream "please, don't nerf the mechanics that make me OP!" .
"Remove all" is not balance, if you want balance you first start fixing some clases, for example, and as many people think, GF and TR. Just figure how is posible tr have a daily that can hit more than 100k (that is ridiculous), TR can shocking a BIS gwf for 120k, CW can ice knife a BIS gwf for 15k, is that balance?. And GF ... well every one knows.
Second, if you want balance, you improve the queue system (I have posted this before). You need to take away some healing?, yes, and lancer explain it very well.
And finally, what is your argument to take away SH bonusses?. I mean is just ridiculous, 1vs1 can't not be done right now becouse nobody dies, without SH (lot of damage lost) it will be even harder.
So when we talk about balance, we have to talk with arguments.
Cus u get as many defensive bonuses as u get offensive ones, and the Defeinsive one in return can give even MORE offense (like defense for a GF) But all u guys are failing to understand this.
And imo u shouldn't HAVE to be in a big guild to compete in PVP.
we don't like ppl that use drains/ambush ring or anything that might/is buggy, right?
we ask for a premade que system, if they do not want to remove those items, we distance ourself for those that are using them, it's like in kindergarted if you want to play with us, you would obey some minimal unspoken rules, if not we ignore you. Thats one of the things that a premade que can offer and many many more .
That´s what work in other mmos, but NWO throws all together in one match. Premade queusystem would be nice, I agree, but it would be better to have somthing like a PVP map with disabled boons etc. on top to get a player base in this game. Letting the rest of the PVP community rot in hell with all that player, who doesn´t follow any order and care about nothing is no solution
The grand way of dealing with most of the issues discussed here are obviously house rules. I don't think set rules in PVP make any sense based on how often balanced has shifted between different powers, builds, items and other mechanics. Today it might be boons and insignias, tomorrow something else.
You should be able to define the rules you want to PVP in. On/Off Boons, Mounts, Companions. Pick a (i)lvl range, ban items and classes. You want to PVP only against your level of 43? Of course. Open World rules in Domination? Here you go! +/-200 your item level? Absolutely! This is me going full pipe dream mode of course, because different rule sets would completely break the queue system and make pugging impossible. You'd need a queue group in which one team sets the rules and invites the other team, so ten players can queue into the same map under the same rules.
The more important question might be how much effort the devs are willing to put into PVP anyway. We know the NCL is going to come back at some point, but otherwise I see PVP heading the Foundry way with little to no changes going forward. The next promising facet of the game going down the drain, but in the end they will probably point to their numbers again and say it's not worth for the 2-3% that are interested in a competitive format.
The grand way of dealing with most of the issues discussed here are obviously house rules. I don't think set rules in PVP make any sense based on how often balanced has shifted between different powers, builds, items and other mechanics. Today it might be boons and insignias, tomorrow something else.
You should be able to define the rules you want to PVP in. On/Off Boons, Mounts, Companions. Pick a (i)lvl range, ban items and classes. You want to PVP only against your level of 43? Of course. Open World rules in Domination? Here you go! +/-200 your item level? Absolutely! This is me going full pipe dream mode of course, because different rule sets would completely break the queue system and make pugging impossible. You'd need a queue group in which one team sets the rules and invites the other team, so ten players can queue into the same map under the same rules.
The more important question might be how much effort the devs are willing to put into PVP anyway. We know the NCL is going to come back at some point, but otherwise I see PVP heading the Foundry way with little to no changes going forward. The next promising facet of the game going down the drain, but in the end they will probably point to their numbers again and say it's not worth for the 2-3% that are interested in a competitive format.
its time they learn as a company how to handle stuffs like this one. even assuming the game is totally dead (pvp/foundry wise) and not worth the effort i would do my earnest tries here instead of ruining a brand new game with the same errors. apparently champions online is one of their previous fails with same modality.
Some people have worked hard to get their boons. Why shouldn't they be allowed to enjoy them? To me, it is the same as telling that people shouldn't be allowed to use their best gear in pvp. And why say the guild boons are fine and the personal ones aren't? I think if we start removing some, we should remove all at least to be fair to people in less maxed guilds if balance is a thing we're truly concerned of.
Maybe there could be another mode of vanilla Domination in which there are no boons or insignia bonuses, but I'm not in favor of completely taking out something I spent so many hours to get. Grinding campaigns is the scourge of my NW existence and, after all that mind-numbing repetition, I'd like to get some use out of them.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited April 2016
well other games suffered from unbalanced pvp and they developed normalized one to keep players. And i am sure they were too pvp-dead and heavy pve focused, but still they do it. so why should cryptic be different and risk their reputation long term
population willing to have fun in pvp and possibly spend cash is still here i am sure, we will see it next NCL no matter what other changes are. and it can be permanent if changes are made.
2016 - year of reworks . now or never . never again
well other games suffered from unbalanced pvp and they developed normalized one to keep players. And i am sure they were too pvp-dead and heavy pve focused, but still they do it. so why should cryptic be different and risk their reputation long term
population willing to have fun in pvp and possibly spend cash is still here i am sure, we will see it next NCL no matter what other changes are. and it can be permanent if changes are made.
2016 - year of reworks . now or never . never again
A change is more than needed, but far too late. But in case they get PVP renewed and more challenging, who knows. Lot´s of player are waiting for a change, some come back jump in PVP for one or two matches and stay away for the next 6 month atm. Maybe cryptic got a plan, hope so.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
well other games suffered from unbalanced pvp and they developed normalized one to keep players. And i am sure they were too pvp-dead and heavy pve focused, but still they do it. so why should cryptic be different and risk their reputation long term
population willing to have fun in pvp and possibly spend cash is still here i am sure, we will see it next NCL no matter what other changes are. and it can be permanent if changes are made.
2016 - year of reworks . now or never . never again
A change is more than needed, but far too late. But in case they get PVP renewed and more challenging, who knows. Lot´s of player are waiting for a change, some come back jump in PVP for one or two matches and stay away for the next 6 month atm. Maybe cryptic got a plan, hope so.
its not too late. players are still here playing pve or waiting somewhere nearby playing pvp in other games and sufffering of sort too so they should come back with ease
1. Remove Endless consumtion 2. Nerf the wheel of elements from 100% to 50%. 3. Make the Elven Tranquility, Enraged Regrowth and Gale of Retribution exactly how insignias are, to not be affected by healing depression or incoming healing bonus. 4. Drowned weapons should have 2minutes cooldown. (it proccs for 30s, and hte downtime should be 1 minute 30s)
I would support this. I made a thread months ago about self-healing on NON healing classes is FAR too much. I would suggest a few alternatives however.
1) Instead of REMOVING this, I would suggest making it a flat 5% lifesteal chance. Endless Consumption is a 30-33% chance to proc and it TRIPLES your heal, so effectively its DOUBLING your lifesteal. Change this to a 5% chance, and that is STILL a massive nerf to lifesteal, but what it allows is for lower non-geared players to have a decent place at obtaining a few lifesteal %.
2) Wheel of Elements heal - I agree here as well. Nerf the heal by cutting it in half. This way at BEST it can be used to heal for 25% in PVP.
3) I dont know how Insignias work, all I have heard is bad things. I would disagree with making these boons NOT affected by HD. This is exactly the type of thing we need to remove - self healing.
4) Drowned Weapons need to just be changed so its on par with others. I think rather than giving this flat healing, this could have some type of % chance, like a 25% chance when healed to heal for 25% more. Something like this... When you look at the other ones, they restore AP, give run speed, decrease inc damage and then this one heals.... Which is hands down INCREDIBLE... It just needs to go rather than have the effect nerfed. The options are endless. Increased recovery for 10 seconds, or increased incoming healing, etc etc.
Things like HR/CW that have their self healing sources would also need to be re-evaluated and nerfed (Like Chaotic Growth, and Wilds Medicine) to provide something else.
Then I think something that SHOULD have been done module 6 was players BASE HP is such HAMSTER. That needs to scale better. They tried to do this with GEAR having a truck ton of HP on it, but in reality when you nerf ALL the self healing, players EHP Pools will be too low, thus doing something like a BASE level 70 character should have DOUBLE the BASE HP of a lvl 60. I think our base HP (depending on CON) was ~24k-25k at 60? So a BASE HP of a lvl 70 player should be about 50k (I think its like 32k now?). So this would bump players HP up a bit to make up for the lack of self healing.
THIS will bring the game back to its glory. Remove self healing, bump HP a bit, now the focus will be back on teamwork and you can truly feel like you can "whittle" someone down over time with proper moves/rotations. As it is right now, people help themselves SO much its just silly and its caused a MASSIVE exodus of players over the last several modules.
I think it's fundamentally misguided when people argue that their "hard work" should come ahead of having a fun and functional game mode.
The biggest impediment right now to PvP being that is the vast differences in power between characters. I don't think individual character boons are a major issue here, as access to most of them is relatively low-hanging fruit. The Stronghold boons are more obvious culprits for being a power creep issue, though, along with enchantments, artifacts and equipment in general.
The simple solution is to have a game mode that's as fair as possible and minimizes the impact of gear, boons and so forth -- Domination -- while other forms of PvP -- like Stronghold and Icewind Dale -- can include everything. That way, people get to benefit from what they worked for, and the game also retains a PvP mode that would allow a broader player base to participate on an equal basis, which should be more fun for everyone.
Agree 100%. Domination needs to be a "stripped down" game for competitive purposes. No Pots, No Boons. I would even suggest NO artifacts (maybe just a primary?).
People think that these boons are "helping Pugs" when in reality, they are not and I think people are mis-understanding the issue. Sure the "total stat allocation" might be closer when you take a 2k player + boons against a BIS + boons. However the REAL issue lies in synergy. You have a player who has an extra 4k Life steal and knows how to use/build around his lifesteal.... it wont be a fair fight no matter what happens.
So sure you strip things down and the BIS player might still MASSIVELY outgear a non BIS player, but the BIS player will have MUCH less synergy, self-sustainability, etc. I mean thinking of my GWF, how much lifesteal would be removed if I lost my boons? Basically ALL of it minus a little I get from artifacts. Sure, the non BIS player would lose stats as well, but my ability to self sustain is gone, meaning that NOW that 1 PUG 2k cant 1v1 me, but TWO 2k PUGs might be able to, where as give me all my boons, and I can out sustain them and out rotate them and win.
Dont think pure stats, we need to think about power "availability' here. We also didnt get into the fact that its HIGHLY doubful a 2k player will even have all his boons, so in that regard, it WILL actually create a smaller gear gap.
At the end of the day, the biggest issue with NW is that EVERY class is merging more towards a "god class" rather than having each one focus on one specialization. All classes can seemingly now deal damage, tank, and heal. Where as modules 0-2 where this game was in its PRIME, didnt allow for this as much. Classes had specific focus. Healers healed, tanks were tanky, DPS were DPS. There was much less spill over between them and THIS is what causes BIS players to be able to STOMP over PUGs is that a DPS class (like a GWF) can not only tank 3 pugs, can out damage them AND out heal them thus comes out triumphant. Where as in the past, self healing was much smaller so a 2v1, even against non geared players, was MUCH harder to live through since you just couldnt sustain as long.
They nerfed healing with heal depression many mods ago and removed the effect regen had on everyone but now we are basically back where we were but WORSE due to all the self healing going around. Its probably the #1 issue that plagues the game and if its ever to be fixed, its what needs to be hit with the nerf bat HARD.
At the end of the day, the biggest issue with NW is that EVERY class is merging more towards a "god class" rather than having each one focus on one specialization.
Which is the main source of all bad things brough to Neverwinter since mod4: 7 out of 8 classes can be strikers while reitaining their main job too. That MUST GO AWAY FOR GOOD and classes must be "locked" into their roles.
1000% agree man. This is what I have been saying since module 4.
Classes like CW need to be CONTROL first. Each class has a specified main and off roles. The issues started early on when CWs had the highest control AND DPS thus CN runs were usually 3 CWs. Tenacity screwed up their control and since then they have been crying for more and more PVP.
I remember when tenacity FIRST came out and they introduced healing depression... Everyones HP shot through the roof due to tenacity (EHP) however their "self healing" was severely nerfed which created long fights but not indefinite fights on nodes. I mean just re-watching some of my old videos from back when this happened has made me realize just how far removed from the glory days this game has come: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x697kT8hDYs (I think this was module 2+, before module 3). Not to get into "balance" issues here as we know GWF was arguable top of food chain back then, but still. You can see the massive difference between this and where we are now where everyone regens HP back to full within a few seconds if you dont nuke the HECK out of them.
I think the PRIMARY issue that has caused this, isnt necessarily that everyone has turned into a striker, but I think its STARTS with the fact that everyone has SO much self healing, which allows people to have plenty of sustainability enough to WANT to spec into striking. The other issue that FORCES this, is that because of the self healing, everyone NEEDS to do this in order to kill anyone...
If self healing were diminished MASSIVELY from this game, you will see a much much bigger dependence on healing classes and it will create other classes whose primary roll isnt a striker, to focus on other things like control...
I really think if the self healing were to get nerfed BIG time, you would see a totally different game and I TRULY believe that you would take a major step towards balancing classes.
Although everyone here saying the truth and want the game become batter. But I doubt they will remove any of those from PVP. I believe Cryptic rather nerf a class to the ground than remove/disable any of those on PVP. :*
Neverwinter is a F2P game, and its not selling skins or nice house/base game.(why not sell especial contents for foundry? ) Its a P2W, Pay to survival, Pay to catch up game. Please don't say Cryptic don't give you optionsto let you catch up BIS or match the large/top guild entry ticket:
1. OPEN YOUR WALLET. 2. Switch on your brain dead zombie mode to become a human meat bot to farm hard 24/7 day 48 weeks.
Those artifacts, enchantment stones, boons, marks and insignias are strongly affect PVP than PVE as we don't need BIS to finish PVE contents but just eveything easier and faster. They are the selling point/indirect product for Cryptic. How can you ask they to remove their main income? >:)
It may also relate to why the match queue mapping still not change to base on equal item level. The imbalance matching is the way to full fill BIS player's big ego(not everyone) and build up psychological gaps in non BIS player's mind to encourage them open wallet/spend. If we PVP at equal gear, then why not just wear the uncommon gear to fight and no demand for those items.
Fully agree, I stop play PVP because I queued without insignias and I die 1vs1 against 3k GF... Few insignias make opponent immortal and fully health regeneration. At theory I could buy them as it's not a problem with AD but this was too much for me. First drains, then ambush ring and now insignia - I moved to PVE and have some fun. Aslo some of my friends left PVP or even game. I will not even mention that this is another thing which increase the gap between bis players and regular one, which is really bad in my opinion.
However if you really want to have insignia in PVP then make that only 1 can be active, not all 5.
Fully agree, I stop play PVP because I queued without insignias and I die 1vs1 against 3k GF... Few insignias make opponent immortal and fully health regeneration. At theory I could buy them as it's not a problem with AD but this was too much for me. First drains, then ambush ring and now insignia - I moved to PVE and have some fun. Aslo some of my friends left PVP or even game. I will not even mention that this is another thing which increase the gap between bis players and regular one, which is really bad in my opinion.
However if you really want to have insignia in PVP then make that only 1 can be active, not all 5.
Correct, but sadly not understood by the developer and some others, posting solutions, how to fix this or improve that... There is near no PVP in this game because 99% stay away from this redicules system. A player, entering these days, could either pay 1000 ´s of dollars or wait 3 years to get BIS. Normal people just shake their heads and stay out for sure.
Comments
they can say them "l2p scrubs", but they have nowhere to learn anything and their possible learning make zero difference
Following these advises nothing will change and nothing will improve as long as I do not implement a PVP wich is
1. easy to step and in case you like it
2. automatically improves your char by doing PVP in form of some PVP focussed talents and maybe 4 pieces of gear you can farm, done, nothing else needed to show your skill, in case you got none it was all about your gear
3. what we got atm is a game putting godlike chars vs 2k player
in case you want to play a PVP focussed game wich bases on PVP it´s definitely the wrong game imo, even those games, if F2P, are not that gear focussed
all in all PVP fails due to the fact that NWO is free to play or more pay to play regarding PVP
Top PVP player will have 30% more stat thats it,
beginer DC with green armor could hold a node for half hour.
Second, if you want balance, you improve the queue system (I have posted this before). You need to take away some healing?, yes, and lancer explain it very well.
And finally, what is your argument to take away SH bonusses?. I mean is just ridiculous, 1vs1 can't not be done right now becouse nobody dies, without SH (lot of damage lost) it will be even harder.
So when we talk about balance, we have to talk with arguments.
And imo u shouldn't HAVE to be in a big guild to compete in PVP.
Premade queusystem would be nice, I agree, but it would be better to have somthing like a PVP map with disabled boons etc. on top to get a player base in this game.
Letting the rest of the PVP community rot in hell with all that player, who doesn´t follow any order and care about nothing is no solution
You should be able to define the rules you want to PVP in. On/Off Boons, Mounts, Companions. Pick a (i)lvl range, ban items and classes. You want to PVP only against your level of 43? Of course. Open World rules in Domination? Here you go! +/-200 your item level? Absolutely! This is me going full pipe dream mode of course, because different rule sets would completely break the queue system and make pugging impossible. You'd need a queue group in which one team sets the rules and invites the other team, so ten players can queue into the same map under the same rules.
The more important question might be how much effort the devs are willing to put into PVP anyway. We know the NCL is going to come back at some point, but otherwise I see PVP heading the Foundry way with little to no changes going forward. The next promising facet of the game going down the drain, but in the end they will probably point to their numbers again and say it's not worth for the 2-3% that are interested in a competitive format.
even assuming the game is totally dead (pvp/foundry wise) and not worth the effort i would do my earnest tries here instead of ruining a brand new game with the same errors.
apparently champions online is one of their previous fails with same modality.
Maybe there could be another mode of vanilla Domination in which there are no boons or insignia bonuses, but I'm not in favor of completely taking out something I spent so many hours to get. Grinding campaigns is the scourge of my NW existence and, after all that mind-numbing repetition, I'd like to get some use out of them.
population willing to have fun in pvp and possibly spend cash is still here i am sure, we will see it next NCL no matter what other changes are. and it can be permanent if changes are made.
2016 - year of reworks . now or never . never again
But in case they get PVP renewed and more challenging, who knows.
Lot´s of player are waiting for a change, some come back jump in PVP for one or two matches and stay away for the next 6 month atm. Maybe cryptic got a plan, hope so.
Enjoy!
1) Instead of REMOVING this, I would suggest making it a flat 5% lifesteal chance. Endless Consumption is a 30-33% chance to proc and it TRIPLES your heal, so effectively its DOUBLING your lifesteal. Change this to a 5% chance, and that is STILL a massive nerf to lifesteal, but what it allows is for lower non-geared players to have a decent place at obtaining a few lifesteal %.
2) Wheel of Elements heal - I agree here as well. Nerf the heal by cutting it in half. This way at BEST it can be used to heal for 25% in PVP.
3) I dont know how Insignias work, all I have heard is bad things. I would disagree with making these boons NOT affected by HD. This is exactly the type of thing we need to remove - self healing.
4) Drowned Weapons need to just be changed so its on par with others. I think rather than giving this flat healing, this could have some type of % chance, like a 25% chance when healed to heal for 25% more. Something like this... When you look at the other ones, they restore AP, give run speed, decrease inc damage and then this one heals.... Which is hands down INCREDIBLE... It just needs to go rather than have the effect nerfed. The options are endless. Increased recovery for 10 seconds, or increased incoming healing, etc etc.
Things like HR/CW that have their self healing sources would also need to be re-evaluated and nerfed (Like Chaotic Growth, and Wilds Medicine) to provide something else.
Then I think something that SHOULD have been done module 6 was players BASE HP is such HAMSTER. That needs to scale better. They tried to do this with GEAR having a truck ton of HP on it, but in reality when you nerf ALL the self healing, players EHP Pools will be too low, thus doing something like a BASE level 70 character should have DOUBLE the BASE HP of a lvl 60. I think our base HP (depending on CON) was ~24k-25k at 60? So a BASE HP of a lvl 70 player should be about 50k (I think its like 32k now?). So this would bump players HP up a bit to make up for the lack of self healing.
THIS will bring the game back to its glory. Remove self healing, bump HP a bit, now the focus will be back on teamwork and you can truly feel like you can "whittle" someone down over time with proper moves/rotations. As it is right now, people help themselves SO much its just silly and its caused a MASSIVE exodus of players over the last several modules.
People think that these boons are "helping Pugs" when in reality, they are not and I think people are mis-understanding the issue. Sure the "total stat allocation" might be closer when you take a 2k player + boons against a BIS + boons. However the REAL issue lies in synergy. You have a player who has an extra 4k Life steal and knows how to use/build around his lifesteal.... it wont be a fair fight no matter what happens.
So sure you strip things down and the BIS player might still MASSIVELY outgear a non BIS player, but the BIS player will have MUCH less synergy, self-sustainability, etc. I mean thinking of my GWF, how much lifesteal would be removed if I lost my boons? Basically ALL of it minus a little I get from artifacts. Sure, the non BIS player would lose stats as well, but my ability to self sustain is gone, meaning that NOW that 1 PUG 2k cant 1v1 me, but TWO 2k PUGs might be able to, where as give me all my boons, and I can out sustain them and out rotate them and win.
Dont think pure stats, we need to think about power "availability' here. We also didnt get into the fact that its HIGHLY doubful a 2k player will even have all his boons, so in that regard, it WILL actually create a smaller gear gap.
At the end of the day, the biggest issue with NW is that EVERY class is merging more towards a "god class" rather than having each one focus on one specialization. All classes can seemingly now deal damage, tank, and heal. Where as modules 0-2 where this game was in its PRIME, didnt allow for this as much. Classes had specific focus. Healers healed, tanks were tanky, DPS were DPS. There was much less spill over between them and THIS is what causes BIS players to be able to STOMP over PUGs is that a DPS class (like a GWF) can not only tank 3 pugs, can out damage them AND out heal them thus comes out triumphant. Where as in the past, self healing was much smaller so a 2v1, even against non geared players, was MUCH harder to live through since you just couldnt sustain as long.
They nerfed healing with heal depression many mods ago and removed the effect regen had on everyone but now we are basically back where we were but WORSE due to all the self healing going around. Its probably the #1 issue that plagues the game and if its ever to be fixed, its what needs to be hit with the nerf bat HARD.
Classes like CW need to be CONTROL first. Each class has a specified main and off roles. The issues started early on when CWs had the highest control AND DPS thus CN runs were usually 3 CWs. Tenacity screwed up their control and since then they have been crying for more and more PVP.
I remember when tenacity FIRST came out and they introduced healing depression... Everyones HP shot through the roof due to tenacity (EHP) however their "self healing" was severely nerfed which created long fights but not indefinite fights on nodes. I mean just re-watching some of my old videos from back when this happened has made me realize just how far removed from the glory days this game has come:
I think the PRIMARY issue that has caused this, isnt necessarily that everyone has turned into a striker, but I think its STARTS with the fact that everyone has SO much self healing, which allows people to have plenty of sustainability enough to WANT to spec into striking. The other issue that FORCES this, is that because of the self healing, everyone NEEDS to do this in order to kill anyone...
If self healing were diminished MASSIVELY from this game, you will see a much much bigger dependence on healing classes and it will create other classes whose primary roll isnt a striker, to focus on other things like control...
I really think if the self healing were to get nerfed BIG time, you would see a totally different game and I TRULY believe that you would take a major step towards balancing classes.
Neverwinter is a F2P game, and its not selling skins or nice house/base game.(why not sell especial contents for foundry?
1. OPEN YOUR WALLET.
2. Switch on your brain dead zombie mode to become a human meat bot to farm hard 24/7 day 48 weeks.
Those artifacts, enchantment stones, boons, marks and insignias are strongly affect PVP than PVE as we don't need BIS to finish PVE contents but just eveything easier and faster. They are the selling point/indirect product for Cryptic. How can you ask they to remove their main income? >:)
It may also relate to why the match queue mapping still not change to base on equal item level. The imbalance matching is the way to full fill BIS player's big ego(not everyone)
and build up psychological gaps in non BIS player's mind to encourage them open wallet/spend. If we PVP at equal gear, then why not just wear the uncommon gear to fight and no demand for those items.
However if you really want to have insignia in PVP then make that only 1 can be active, not all 5.
There is near no PVP in this game because 99% stay away from this redicules system.
A player, entering these days, could either pay 1000 ´s of dollars or wait 3 years to get BIS.
Normal people just shake their heads and stay out for sure.