Oathboand Paladins don't even need haste clerics. If they make up to 11k recovery they can perma bubble without haste clerics. But gift of haste is a nice feature regardless. The ppl just abuse it
Petty no. It's not petty the point I'm trying to make Marburg is if you create a. Class that makes every other class obsolete then that's an exploit I'll explain if you get 5 gr in a group good luck beating lostmouth and it HAMSTER for even queing for gray wolf den. But if ur a group of 5 bubbles then it will take about 5 hours But you could win without going down no others avg class could do that yes 5 way Op gwf could but not avg to me that throw the game off I'm not saying need them all the way like gwf need but the point in a tank is to be able to withstand dam I've yet to see an avg tank get one shot but the bubble not only kills the gf its also turned the dc into somthing its not and not because it dont work or anything its just obsolete to taking no dam and walk I g threw easly. Half these dc are not dc these ppl have no clue how to time or build to equal it out besides the cleric is a healer some ppl proved my point by saying dc cant heal or gf is only goods for buffs but in reality no one should take hits unless its collateral dam like in elol because a proper run tank holds threat over all classes so the only focus for dc should be tank 90percent of the time running my dc I see hr or cw way off by themselves because the dont understand that u standby dc not make them come find you and a proper dc can buff or rebuff incoming dmg if they stand inside astral shield and allow to hit with d glow the 28th one big heal I can heal the tank. Who should have most dmg and them in one cast ppl dont understand it makes no since to have dc as haste I'm sure pally has way more powers gthen just that that can buff there party and still function in a group the hashed bubble is going to be nerfed because the devs didn't understand that it could happen and now it throws the game into 100 percent success rate which holds no challenge. Yes nerfing makes ppl mad but the ppl who stick around and play it work hard in char to build them master there rotations to Just become obsolete over a exploit they would rather keep there core gamers then to keep ppl who inv little time and get mad cuz there pally is not God anymore.
I have 4 level 70 characters all over 27Il and my GWF (preferred toon) is 34 (just a shade under) I run different composition groups, I doubt anyone would want to be in a five paaly group and I doubt such a thing even exists in dungeons tbh
Palladins dont make all other classes obsolete they provide balance and incentive for lower level players to run Dungeons, the same folk whining about the OP's were likely whining about the GWF back in the early days, the dungeons I would get tossed from when running my GWF prior to mod beggars belief. Then once they restored them I was mr popular and the guys who were kicking me out wanted me in all of a sudden....go figure.
The point is the constant whining about one character being OP versus another is more destructive than anything else imho. Its okay to go nerf the pallies when you have all your gear and your toons are over 3K as you have everything you need.
Given the structure in Dungeons a dozen runs gets you your T2 gear on that character so why would anyone care about other guys getting theirs and how they get it?
Then you will get underdark and the new gear will drop and those huge grind of heroics will appear to get them, then folk will be screaming for Pallies and Haste Clerics to help out on the 100 Emberclaw runs etc.
Petty no. It's not petty the point I'm trying to make Marburg is if you create a. Class that makes every other class obsolete then that's an exploit I'll explain if you get 5 gr in a group good luck beating lostmouth and it HAMSTER for even queing for gray wolf den. But if ur a group of 5 bubbles then it will take about 5 hours But you could win without going down no others avg class could do that yes 5 way Op gwf could but not avg to me that throw the game off I'm not saying need them all the way like gwf need but the point in a tank is to be able to withstand dam I've yet to see an avg tank get one shot but the bubble not only kills the gf its also turned the dc into somthing its not and not because it dont work or anything its just obsolete to taking no dam and walk I g threw easly. Half these dc are not dc these ppl have no clue how to time or build to equal it out besides the cleric is a healer some ppl proved my point by saying dc cant heal or gf is only goods for buffs but in reality no one should take hits unless its collateral dam like in elol because a proper run tank holds threat over all classes so the only focus for dc should be tank 90percent of the time running my dc I see hr or cw way off by themselves because the dont understand that u standby dc not make them come find you and a proper dc can buff or rebuff incoming dmg if they stand inside astral shield and allow to hit with d glow the 28th one big heal I can heal the tank. Who should have most dmg and them in one cast ppl dont understand it makes no since to have dc as haste I'm sure pally has way more powers gthen just that that can buff there party and still function in a group the hashed bubble is going to be nerfed because the devs didn't understand that it could happen and now it throws the game into 100 percent success rate which holds no challenge. Yes nerfing makes ppl mad but the ppl who stick around and play it work hard in char to build them master there rotations to Just become obsolete over a exploit they would rather keep there core gamers then to keep ppl who inv little time and get mad cuz there pally is not God anymore.
I have 4 level 70 characters all over 27Il and my GWF (preferred toon) is 34 (just a shade under) I run different composition groups, I doubt anyone would want to be in a five paaly group and I doubt such a thing even exists in dungeons tbh
Palladins dont make all other classes obsolete they provide balance and incentive for lower level players to run Dungeons, the same folk whining about the OP's were likely whining about the GWF back in the early days, the dungeons I would get tossed from when running my GWF prior to mod beggars belief. Then once they restored them I was mr popular and the guys who were kicking me out wanted me in all of a sudden....go figure.
The point is the constant whining about one character being OP versus another is more destructive than anything else imho. Its okay to go nerf the pallies when you have all your gear and your toons are over 3K as you have everything you need.
Given the structure in Dungeons a dozen runs gets you your T2 gear on that character so why would anyone care about other guys getting theirs and how they get it?
Then you will get underdark and the new gear will drop and those huge grind of heroics will appear to get them, then folk will be screaming for Pallies and Haste Clerics to help out on the 100 Emberclaw runs etc.
its not balance to hit a daily over and over that absorbs all dmg what balanced about that and tbh the gwf nerf waas crappy but even now the gwf is pretty bal the cw perma freeze and dps was nerfed the tr dps was nerfed the dc and tank is completly useless because unless u run haste the pally can absorb all dmg its like this gwf sw are dps cw hr are party support or mob control tr a mix of both more dps tho then it leaves gf and dc as survival classes but the one class a pally is god mode it works no matter what party is made up of thats not balanced that sstatement is the most ignorant thing ive ever heard about this game balanced hahahaha its like turning the skill lvl from hardcore to fluffy unicorns its funny u say incentive for lower geared players but if these lower geared player would of ran with proper tank and dc learned to time the moves they wouldnt of had a problem but the pally makes them not need a rotation no need to care about what encounters you use no need to use dodge stand where ever u want and y get t1 gear as soon as u hit 70 get a pally & haste jump into etos and get ur seals u will have full elven in 4 hours thats not skill not balanced not even fun but your deff of balanced and mine is way differ i got all elven for my char by running t1 then t2 2 char by not using bubble at all so no exuse but also i know how to buils and use all my char and of coarse no 1 would run 5 pally in dung its hypathetical but would result in sucess
my only statement to dev would be knock it down so it absorbs 50% of dmg and not apply to aoe marked in red that way ppl still take dmg and have to move and still req heals and mahburg i think you would be surprised running with tank who knows how to manage threat and pull all agro and dc who can buff/debuff and heal there grp
Petty no. It's not petty the point I'm trying to make Marburg is if you create a. Class that makes every other class obsolete then that's an exploit I'll explain if you get 5 gr in a group good luck beating lostmouth and it HAMSTER for even queing for gray wolf den. But if ur a group of 5 bubbles then it will take about 5 hours But you could win without going down no others avg class could do that yes 5 way Op gwf could but not avg to me that throw the game off I'm not saying need them all the way like gwf need but the point in a tank is to be able to withstand dam I've yet to see an avg tank get one shot but the bubble not only kills the gf its also turned the dc into somthing its not and not because it dont work or anything its just obsolete to taking no dam and walk I g threw easly. Half these dc are not dc these ppl have no clue how to time or build to equal it out besides the cleric is a healer some ppl proved my point by saying dc cant heal or gf is only goods for buffs but in reality no one should take hits unless its collateral dam like in elol because a proper run tank holds threat over all classes so the only focus for dc should be tank 90percent of the time running my dc I see hr or cw way off by themselves because the dont understand that u standby dc not make them come find you and a proper dc can buff or rebuff incoming dmg if they stand inside astral shield and allow to hit with d glow the 28th one big heal I can heal the tank. Who should have most dmg and them in one cast ppl dont understand it makes no since to have dc as haste I'm sure pally has way more powers gthen just that that can buff there party and still function in a group the hashed bubble is going to be nerfed because the devs didn't understand that it could happen and now it throws the game into 100 percent success rate which holds no challenge. Yes nerfing makes ppl mad but the ppl who stick around and play it work hard in char to build them master there rotations to Just become obsolete over a exploit they would rather keep there core gamers then to keep ppl who inv little time and get mad cuz there pally is not God anymore.
I have 4 level 70 characters all over 27Il and my GWF (preferred toon) is 34 (just a shade under) I run different composition groups, I doubt anyone would want to be in a five paaly group and I doubt such a thing even exists in dungeons tbh
Palladins dont make all other classes obsolete they provide balance and incentive for lower level players to run Dungeons, the same folk whining about the OP's were likely whining about the GWF back in the early days, the dungeons I would get tossed from when running my GWF prior to mod beggars belief. Then once they restored them I was mr popular and the guys who were kicking me out wanted me in all of a sudden....go figure.
The point is the constant whining about one character being OP versus another is more destructive than anything else imho. Its okay to go nerf the pallies when you have all your gear and your toons are over 3K as you have everything you need.
Given the structure in Dungeons a dozen runs gets you your T2 gear on that character so why would anyone care about other guys getting theirs and how they get it?
Then you will get underdark and the new gear will drop and those huge grind of heroics will appear to get them, then folk will be screaming for Pallies and Haste Clerics to help out on the 100 Emberclaw runs etc.
its not balance to hit a daily over and over that absorbs all dmg what balanced about that and tbh the gwf nerf waas crappy but even now the gwf is pretty bal the cw perma freeze and dps was nerfed the tr dps was nerfed the dc and tank is completly useless because unless u run haste the pally can absorb all dmg its like this gwf sw are dps cw hr are party support or mob control tr a mix of both more dps tho then it leaves gf and dc as survival classes but the one class a pally is god mode it works no matter what party is made up of thats not balanced that sstatement is the most ignorant thing ive ever heard about this game balanced hahahaha its like turning the skill lvl from hardcore to fluffy unicorns its funny u say incentive for lower geared players but if these lower geared player would of ran with proper tank and dc learned to time the moves they wouldnt of had a problem but the pally makes them not need a rotation no need to care about what encounters you use no need to use dodge stand where ever u want and y get t1 gear as soon as u hit 70 get a pally & haste jump into etos and get ur seals u will have full elven in 4 hours thats not skill not balanced not even fun but your deff of balanced and mine is way differ i got all elven for my char by running t1 then t2 2 char by not using bubble at all so no exuse but also i know how to buils and use all my char and of coarse no 1 would run 5 pally in dung its hypathetical but would result in sucess
HR party support?
Ha not if built really well, the only class that out-dps's me is a very good GWF (sometimes by a rediculas margin) and some-what rarely a good SW. A decent HR is DPS as well as party support and mine can end up sometimes with 2mil healing at the end of a dungeon run Technically its a survival class too as I ended up having to solo the Scorpions in LoL the other day and the last 30-40% of Kessells boss on my own... but then my stats are pretty high these days.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
i agree with @wdj40. HR Trapper is a high performance DPS class with flexibility to provide party support. i have the same experiences with my build, and i still lack several boons and am undergeared compared to many.
as for the pally discussion, as with all classes, there are 3 trees to choose from. i chose the justice tree for mine, because i want to be able to dish out holy justice, and as such i focus on DPS. in other words, i don't want to be capable of perma bubble without a haste cleric. i can still tank without constant bubble, and when i have bubble ready that is a bonus. at the end of the run i've also contributed my share of DPS and sometimes a bit of healing. this is my vision of how a paladin is, and it's always been my vision of a paladin since i was a kid.
the problem is the community. if there is no haste cleric, i'm willing to give it a go, but most pugs refuse. sometimes a group will give it 1 chance.... and if anyone drops 1 time people leave. also with the way most people have built their dps toons, they get 1 shot by standard mob attacks... that is why the healer DC can't keep up. you are getting 1 shot by a piece of trash and then blame everyone else around you. smh.
on the other hand, when i run with my righteous cleric, i won't do it without a paladin.. bubble or heal. i can't heal well enough to keep the party alive and in pug it's unlikely to get matched with another cleric. i can haste though so a bubble works perfectly and with the buffs/debuffs i provide, the runs are generally pretty quick even with low geared players.
all that said, there should be some better balance, but the nerf hammer is coming soon enough to the paladin. i haven't taken the time to research what that entails yet, but i hope i can still play the way i want to with my build.
Ha not if built really well, the only class that out-dps's me is a very good GWF (sometimes by a rediculas margin) and some-what rarely a good SW. A decent HR is DPS as well as party support and mine can end up sometimes with 2mil healing at the end of a dungeon run Technically its a survival class too as I ended up having to solo the Scorpions in LoL the other day and the last 30-40% of Kessells boss on my own... but then my stats are pretty high these days.
ur talking about a very buffed hr if you get same sw gwf and hr the hr well be well behind dps if u dont believe come run with my guild theres plenty of hr's but cant keep up with sw or gwf thats lowered geared then that so they fall into mob clean up cuz just like cw thats there best spot in group i mean hr and cw can lay down the dmg but if your 3rd against compairable classes then ur not in the same grade and there real spot is dps support because of it they thats y i changed my cw to be control base because i was lacking behind ppl in the last mod i was out doing by 10 mill but the hr just as cw (hint roots and freeze are control based or trash clean up so the big dogs can wack down there target with ease) are support and are best utilized that way
Oathboand Paladins don't even need haste clerics. If they make up to 11k recovery they can perma bubble without haste clerics. But gift of haste is a nice feature regardless. The ppl just abuse it
To put this to rest, it is not necessary to have a crazy high recovery stat to perma bubble. I am at 7k recovery now, but could easily perma without a haste cleric when recovery was in the 4-5k range. There are several ways to get to perma bubble - it's a matter of selecting and coordinating feats / boons / equipment to support your play style.
I see all the bad player comments and it's so whiney. I ran a full health DC and switched to Haste. I have no down time in dungeon runs and we are not 'lazy' nor is it lack of ability or skill, I can play either. It's simply the set up of the current dungeons and the most advantageous to get through without playing it forever. But if that is your thing, then by all means find a team that runs it the way you want to play it. Don't change your build if you don't want to, find other players who want to play your way.
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
Oathboand Paladins don't even need haste clerics. If they make up to 11k recovery they can perma bubble without haste clerics. But gift of haste is a nice feature regardless. The ppl just abuse it
Other classes like having faster AP gain as well... and not all of them are capable of perma-dailies without help from a virtuous DC.
I'm a Pro Pally. I run bubble all day long. Not necessarily because I want to, but because it gets us through the dungeons faster.. we've already ran the dungeons to death through legit means and using work arounds. Granted this is with a group that I normally play with. We can run the dungeons without bubble but why make thing more difficult than needed? We've gotten Spider down to 8-10 minute runs. I'm a self sufficient bubble I do not need a haste or gf, that being said I like running with either or both. I'm also a dps paladin.. I lay the smack down on all around me. I've out dps'd hr, tr, sw, and even gwf and I've lost to them as well. It depends on our pulls. As far as a 5 pally group? Find me 4 others who know how to play their class and are willing and I'll run that for fun. I've already ran a 3 pally, haste, and gf through spiders, it took about 25 minutes but was figuratively a walk in the park. I was top dps at 160MIL without using binding oath/reflective dmg. And that was all thanks the gf boosting our stats all to hell and the haste getting us our dailies that much faster.
Yes this game sucks and shows I how console users want ease and fast games throw the slightest challenge and they cry there is nothing balanced about the paladin at all it's thwclass where <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> useto make the game simple cuz if they cant win easly they go play another game plus ppl think well now hi have ur gear I call fornerf No dunbasses I've always hated op cuz the take stratagy out and make game very 8 year old friendly to every o.o delete ur char cuz there ment for 10 and under
I'll ignore the childish name calling aspect of your post as it serves no purpose.
Quite simply the pally is needed when your group is under geared. In my experience a GF is able to replace an OP once they get past 2.6k (on average). Only yesterday I witnessed a 2k GF run into the FIRST group in ETOS and die within 3 seconds, this is pretty typical for those less than 2.5k. Once a GF becomes properly geared & learns their class I prefer them over Pallys.
I would actually be happy with the bubble being removed completely & possibly being replaced with a feat that reduces enemy crit damage or something. Add that to existing passives for reducing enemy damage plus Binding Oath for damage redirect and they can get along easily with either type of healer.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
So much hate and discontent towards pallys. It seem very childish. Some people prefer to do runs with them cause it lets them be more wild and random..... I will agree it can and does make runs a lot easier, but for some that's what they won't...... ITs and game folks.
That being said like in previous post, simply don't run with them. If you are butt hurt about the class,voice your concerns and leave it at that. Don't constantly complaining about it. Once is enough.
I run a pally for what it does "tank" and it tanks really well(with or without the bubble). Soooo stop the complaining, and don't mess it up for folks.
My first character is a TR but I love my pally for the simple fact that I can single handedly, without a great deal of investment, help other people through t1 and t2 content that they would not otherwise be able to run without a very specific group of higher level players....I can pretty much grab any four players in the guild and go for it.
I like a challenge from the game and I don't mind some (or many) deaths, but if you are still under 2K IL trying to get some gear from a t1, it's an awful grind these days full of failed runs without some support from high gear experienced players or a cheap pally (and maybe haste combo). It's fun to help the newer players experience the content and get some gear and the pally is a cheap way to do it.
I do want to start building a GF, my son has one and I play it from time to time, it seems like a ton of fun and a great help in party.
Oathbound Paladins are a great class in theory, very versatile team buffs, healer or tank tree.
My problem lies with the lack of difficulty already present in this game. I don't go anywhere with paladins anymore, and they are basically doomed to carrying low level players around, because they and any four players near them are permanently immune to damage.
I don't see how a daily that last 20 seconds, and makes all other players immune to damage, combined with an encounter that makes the Pally immune to damage, could ever have made sense on paper.
All I ask is for the paladin to be more difficult to play. Tone down the feats and abilities to make it possible to take damage from time to time. If I wanted to be permanently invisible, I would run leveling dungeons...
Heck, as a bubble pally I wouldn't mind them removing the bubble ability. For the most part, pallies don't need it. It is their teammates who need it. I could go through most places without it and do fine but without bubble but eveyrone else would die. L0L Then I'd get blamed for it for not having a bubble up. L0L
OP, you never said why you personally think the Pally should be nerfed. Was it because they make things easy? No offense, but that is hardly a reason for a nerf lol. By not messing with the bubble they are appeasing the VAST majority of their player base. If they did anything to break the bubble in any way, then there would just be another up roar from then players.
I agree with Firepats. it would be stupid for them to nerf the bubble pally. If you don't want to run with one don't run with one. most people don't like banging their heads against the wall. if they nerfed it you'd lose many more people than we've already lost.
I understand your position, but how does it affect you if the pally stays the same? You seem to be asking for a nerf....just because. If you don't like the class, then don't play with it. If some others, that are maybe still leveling, want/need a pally then why deprive them of the same treatment you (or maybe not you), and most of the other players had.
I agree with Firepats. it would be stupid for them to nerf the bubble pally. If you don't want to run with one don't run with one. most people don't like banging their heads against the wall. if they nerfed it you'd lose many more people than we've already lost.
Not to mention they are kind of important now for many teams in final boss fight on new CN. My 3k GWF was basically worthless. Bubbledin is the only tank with any hope of survival, unless you have a DC on board.
lol, I can't wait to see how many people come spamming in PE begging for a Bubble to run Caste Never. All the high and mighty people will be put in their place.
seriously, there is a lot of let them eat cake attitude in these forums. yeah, for those lucky enough to be in a good big active guild you can find people good enough to run the dungeons without any (other form) of crutch. but for those in small guilds or no guild without the boons, without the high level players, relying on randoms.. having a class that can make it doable is the difference between throwing up your hands in despair and putting in another game and staying.
if you think the game is too easy with certain classes form groups with out them. easy peasy. no reason to force other people to play like you think you want to play just because. as my grandmother always used to say. it takes all kinds to make the world go round. let other people play how they want to play. you play how you want to play. easy peasy. dictators make the world a dire play.
I want the paladin to be nerfed because A ) I have a protection Pally who can get any group of 4 through the current content without once using the bubble. B ) There is no place in an mmo for permanently invinsible group play, maybe without the bubble, people would learn to play their class rather than simply stand still and cycle through encounters. C ) If you think bubble pallys are the only way of tanking any available content, try running with a GF cleric combo, or a healing Pally and some control. D ) My main point is not to remove paladins, or destroy the build, simply to tone it down to a point where 2000 Item level pallys can't keep a permanent forcefield around a group and take zero damage. It's not about the abilities, so much as the ease of achieving a permanent bubble. With no repercussions for their actions in a dungeon, you are not helping new players, you are teaching them that they'll never need to learn the dungeons, enemies, or how to play their class.
Comments
Palladins dont make all other classes obsolete they provide balance and incentive for lower level players to run Dungeons, the same folk whining about the OP's were likely whining about the GWF back in the early days, the dungeons I would get tossed from when running my GWF prior to mod beggars belief. Then once they restored them I was mr popular and the guys who were kicking me out wanted me in all of a sudden....go figure.
The point is the constant whining about one character being OP versus another is more destructive than anything else imho.
Its okay to go nerf the pallies when you have all your gear and your toons are over 3K as you have everything you need.
Given the structure in Dungeons a dozen runs gets you your T2 gear on that character so why would anyone care about other guys getting theirs and how they get it?
Then you will get underdark and the new gear will drop and those huge grind of heroics will appear to get them, then folk will be screaming for Pallies and Haste Clerics to help out on the 100 Emberclaw runs etc.
and of coarse no 1 would run 5 pally in dung its hypathetical but would result in sucess
Ha not if built really well, the only class that out-dps's me is a very good GWF (sometimes by a rediculas margin) and some-what rarely a good SW. A decent HR is DPS as well as party support and mine can end up sometimes with 2mil healing at the end of a dungeon run
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
as for the pally discussion, as with all classes, there are 3 trees to choose from. i chose the justice tree for mine, because i want to be able to dish out holy justice, and as such i focus on DPS. in other words, i don't want to be capable of perma bubble without a haste cleric. i can still tank without constant bubble, and when i have bubble ready that is a bonus. at the end of the run i've also contributed my share of DPS and sometimes a bit of healing. this is my vision of how a paladin is, and it's always been my vision of a paladin since i was a kid.
the problem is the community. if there is no haste cleric, i'm willing to give it a go, but most pugs refuse. sometimes a group will give it 1 chance.... and if anyone drops 1 time people leave. also with the way most people have built their dps toons, they get 1 shot by standard mob attacks... that is why the healer DC can't keep up. you are getting 1 shot by a piece of trash and then blame everyone else around you. smh.
on the other hand, when i run with my righteous cleric, i won't do it without a paladin.. bubble or heal. i can't heal well enough to keep the party alive and in pug it's unlikely to get matched with another cleric. i can haste though so a bubble works perfectly and with the buffs/debuffs i provide, the runs are generally pretty quick even with low geared players.
all that said, there should be some better balance, but the nerf hammer is coming soon enough to the paladin. i haven't taken the time to research what that entails yet, but i hope i can still play the way i want to with my build.
SoonerGM - HR Trapper
Haven - Righteous Cleric
Ethereal Justice - OP Paladin
HR party support?
Ha not if built really well, the only class that out-dps's me is a very good GWF (sometimes by a rediculas margin) and some-what rarely a good SW. A decent HR is DPS as well as party support and mine can end up sometimes with 2mil healing at the end of a dungeon run
ur talking about a very buffed hr if you get same sw gwf and hr the hr well be well behind dps if u dont believe come run with my guild theres plenty of hr's but cant keep up with sw or gwf thats lowered geared then that so they fall into mob clean up cuz just like cw thats there best spot in group i mean hr and cw can lay down the dmg but if your 3rd against compairable classes then ur not in the same grade and there real spot is dps support because of it they thats y i changed my cw to be control base because i was lacking behind ppl in the last mod i was out doing by 10 mill but the hr just as cw (hint roots and freeze are control based or trash clean up so the big dogs can wack down there target with ease) are support and are best utilized that way
This whole thread is based on abject egotism.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Quite simply the pally is needed when your group is under geared. In my experience a GF is able to replace an OP once they get past 2.6k (on average). Only yesterday I witnessed a 2k GF run into the FIRST group in ETOS and die within 3 seconds, this is pretty typical for those less than 2.5k. Once a GF becomes properly geared & learns their class I prefer them over Pallys.
I would actually be happy with the bubble being removed completely & possibly being replaced with a feat that reduces enemy crit damage or something. Add that to existing passives for reducing enemy damage plus Binding Oath for damage redirect and they can get along easily with either type of healer.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
That being said like in previous post, simply don't run with them. If you are butt hurt about the class,voice your concerns and leave it at that. Don't constantly complaining about it. Once is enough.
I run a pally for what it does "tank" and it tanks really well(with or without the bubble). Soooo stop the complaining, and don't mess it up for folks.
I like a challenge from the game and I don't mind some (or many) deaths, but if you are still under 2K IL trying to get some gear from a t1, it's an awful grind these days full of failed runs without some support from high gear experienced players or a cheap pally (and maybe haste combo). It's fun to help the newer players experience the content and get some gear and the pally is a cheap way to do it.
I do want to start building a GF, my son has one and I play it from time to time, it seems like a ton of fun and a great help in party.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
My problem lies with the lack of difficulty already present in this game. I don't go anywhere with paladins anymore, and they are basically doomed to carrying low level players around, because they and any four players near them are permanently immune to damage.
I don't see how a daily that last 20 seconds, and makes all other players immune to damage, combined with an encounter that makes the Pally immune to damage, could ever have made sense on paper.
All I ask is for the paladin to be more difficult to play. Tone down the feats and abilities to make it possible to take damage from time to time. If I wanted to be permanently invisible, I would run leveling dungeons...
if you think the game is too easy with certain classes form groups with out them. easy peasy. no reason to force other people to play like you think you want to play just because. as my grandmother always used to say. it takes all kinds to make the world go round. let other people play how they want to play. you play how you want to play. easy peasy. dictators make the world a dire play.
A ) I have a protection Pally who can get any group of 4 through the current content without once using the bubble.
B ) There is no place in an mmo for permanently invinsible group play, maybe without the bubble, people would learn to play their class rather than simply stand still and cycle through encounters.
C ) If you think bubble pallys are the only way of tanking any available content, try running with a GF cleric combo, or a healing Pally and some control.
D ) My main point is not to remove paladins, or destroy the build, simply to tone it down to a point where 2000 Item level pallys can't keep a permanent forcefield around a group and take zero damage. It's not about the abilities, so much as the ease of achieving a permanent bubble. With no repercussions for their actions in a dungeon, you are not helping new players, you are teaching them that they'll never need to learn the dungeons, enemies, or how to play their class.