None of the solutions work. Period you can still sell something undercutting everyone and be transferring AD. The buyer will just send you the item back through the mail..... So only one way to stop this type of problem. No more trading. Everything is perminantly bound to your character.
Gluck have fun game over. If you wanna play you will pay.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.
In that case any of us could get banned I sold a Glorious resurgence pack for over five mill recently how would I know who bought it? I wanted the AD for the Mimic for my guild in case I bail following the recent nonsense (still debating), should I expect a ban for me taking AD off some random dude in the Exchange?
Well if this "random" dude as you say had bought the item with tainted AD, then maybe you will get banned. Its all he said she said. You and all the others can claim all day long that you had no idea that the AD was tainted, but no one knows for sure. Is it an odd way to handle things, sure. But as I said, better to ban all associated with tainted AD than to try and weed through all the liers that claim they had no idea it was tainted AD.
Hang on right there, I dont like what you are implying, my Transaction was a perfectly normal every day transaction and was as it happens the first Legendary Item I have sold on the AH so I should not have to claim anything or prove anything, either I know the guy or I don't. Easy way to substantiate it is in the recent players list on Live or from my friends list.
I hope you never find yourself on a jury I would hate to be confronted with that view if my life depended on it.........well he seems like he may be innocent but we cant ever be sure as we weren't there so hang his HAMSTER !
Incredible view to take on any disputed set of circumstances!
It's impossible to police what users do with their AD. To suggest monitoring transactions and banning those that are 'suspect' is very Patriot Act, and is an abuse of power that can only go wrong. The only way to cure any percieved problem with abuse of the game's ecomony is to allow for the transfer of all currencies between an account's characters. This does not weed out the black market --there will always be those who will flock to where a dollar can be made in any arena-- but it emilinates the possibility of banning the wrong people for the wrong reasons simply because a policeman has misinterpreted what the server transaction log is reading. To say "ban them all, anyone involved is guilty" is so short sighted and lacking intelligence that I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
How do you beat the black market? You don't. You can't. If there is something that can be obtainied and sold then you'll have diggers, that is a fact of life. They will only be gone when the game is dead and the tiny bit of money they make with unsavoury business becomes a waste of their time; at that point they move on to a more popular, profitable game. You can't undercut them, you can't overprice them. They will always exist as an outlet selling the game's currency at a cost under what is possible in the game, and the reason for that is in the manner in which they obtain the currency they sell. It's like selling in bulk, you have so much questionably obtained overstock that you can afford to sell at a reduced unit price in order to move product and assure customers/sales with the value you're providing per unit.
You can't stop them from playing, you can't stop them from farming, you can't stop them from abusing loopholes that the developers (or those in charge of ecomomy balancing) haven't thought through properly. [see: the former ability to generate AD through Leadership]
If someone uses a stolen credit card to buy heaps of Zen and then uses that Zen to profiteer, that's not a game economy issue, that's a TOS issue and a criminal act. That action has a protocol and the offender can be reprimanded. This is the extent of what can be done by the developers and by Microsoft. Any and everything else is nonsense really.
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.
In that case any of us could get banned I sold a Glorious resurgence pack for over five mill recently how would I know who bought it? I wanted the AD for the Mimic for my guild in case I bail following the recent nonsense (still debating), should I expect a ban for me taking AD off some random dude in the Exchange?
Well if this "random" dude as you say had bought the item with tainted AD, then maybe you will get banned. Its all he said she said. You and all the others can claim all day long that you had no idea that the AD was tainted, but no one knows for sure. Is it an odd way to handle things, sure. But as I said, better to ban all associated with tainted AD than to try and weed through all the liers that claim they had no idea it was tainted AD.
Hang on right there, I dont like what you are implying, my Transaction was a perfectly normal every day transaction and was as it happens the first Legendary Item I have sold on the AH so I should not have to claim anything or prove anything, either I know the guy or I don't. Easy way to substantiate it is in the recent players list on Live or from my friends list.
I hope you never find yourself on a jury I would hate to be confronted with that view if my life depended on it.........well he seems like he may be innocent but we cant ever be sure as we weren't there so hang his HAMSTER !
Incredible view to take on any disputed set of circumstances!
I am simply stating what the devs point of view is. I already said it sucks that some innocent people get caught in the cross fire, but the bans have to be done. They can't go through your friends list/recent players list from Xbox, only Microsoft could MAYBE do that. So there is literally ZERO ways for them to know for 100% certainty that the seller of said item had nothing to do with the tainted AD.
**Also since you choose to bring up the court system which has no in-game basis, I will have to go with the opposite of a little known saying, instead of "innocent until proven guilty"....in this case it is and should be "guilty until proven innocent".
How is one to know who is associated with tainted AD. I was in the enclave. Was approached for a trade. I told them I needed AD more than anything. He said just list n item in TH and he would buy it. I got temp ban after that. I now don't accept any trade offers. Sad it came to this.
So banning people isn't a viable option in my opinion. The should lower the price of Zen.
Only permma ban should be people who moded there system.
Yep, til he finds himself on the receiving end - sells something at a normal price and gets permabanned because the purchaser previously bought AD from a 3rd party site.
Only experiencing it first hand overcomes this type of mindset.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
I don't spend/have not spent any money on this game, so everything I have I leveled it myself. So I don't have anything to sell, and even if I did, I still wouldn't. I just don't understand how no one understands the point I am presenting. There is NO WAY to determine whether you knew the person with tainted AD, so how are the devs supposed to know? I have said that it sucks for the innocent people, but remember the saying....one bad apple spoils the bunch.
I don't spend/have not spent any money on this game, so everything I have I leveled it myself. So I don't have anything to sell, and even if I did, I still wouldn't. I just don't understand how no one understands the point I am presenting. There is NO WAY to determine whether you knew the person with tainted AD, so how are the devs supposed to know? I have said that it sucks for the innocent people, but remember the saying....one bad apple spoils the bunch.
Sorry I think everyone else gets it fine, its you that seems to have the issue, people cant be held accountable for what they cannot know, if you buy a car through a dealership and it later turns out to be stolen the Police don't press charges against you for theft.
You may lose the car and seek redress against the Dealership but you aren't guilty of anything. This is because you acted in "Good faith" in this instance the Vendor is the one taking action against purchasers for something they cannot possibly know? Where then is the basic human consideration of "acting in good faith"?
@mahburg Its a game, the devs are only in it for the money. There is no such thing as "good Faith", or basic human consideration lol. I think that is the over arching issue that no one here is getting. The devs only want money, and they don't care about the people playing the game as long as they spend that money. So guess what the devs are not getting if you buy 3rd party......MONEY.
So therefore the idea to punish those costing them money is all they see. So my points are all valid, the whole since they don't know who bought the AD and LOSE them money, then they will ban all people associated because in their view all people associated are costing them money.
*Also, if you are the one with the stolen car you would 100% get booked in jail for a least a brief stay btw.
@mahburg Its a game, the devs are only in it for the money. There is no such thing as "good Faith", or basic human consideration lol. I think that is the over arching issue that no one here is getting. The devs only want money, and they don't care about the people playing the game as long as they spend that money. So guess what the devs are not getting if you buy 3rd party......MONEY.
So therefore the idea to punish those costing them money is all they see. So my points are all valid, the whole since they don't know who bought the AD and LOSE them money, then they will ban all people associated because in their view all people associated are costing them money.
*Also, if you are the one with the stolen car you would 100% get booked in jail for a least a brief stay btw.
Not necessarily if you can show what was believed to be clear title (in good faith) it then would become a civil matter in most jurisdictions. The US may differ of course.
Comments
Gluck have fun game over. If you wanna play you will pay.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I hope you never find yourself on a jury I would hate to be confronted with that view if my life depended on it.........well he seems like he may be innocent but we cant ever be sure as we weren't there so hang his HAMSTER !
Incredible view to take on any disputed set of circumstances!
How do you beat the black market? You don't. You can't. If there is something that can be obtainied and sold then you'll have diggers, that is a fact of life. They will only be gone when the game is dead and the tiny bit of money they make with unsavoury business becomes a waste of their time; at that point they move on to a more popular, profitable game. You can't undercut them, you can't overprice them. They will always exist as an outlet selling the game's currency at a cost under what is possible in the game, and the reason for that is in the manner in which they obtain the currency they sell. It's like selling in bulk, you have so much questionably obtained overstock that you can afford to sell at a reduced unit price in order to move product and assure customers/sales with the value you're providing per unit.
You can't stop them from playing, you can't stop them from farming, you can't stop them from abusing loopholes that the developers (or those in charge of ecomomy balancing) haven't thought through properly. [see: the former ability to generate AD through Leadership]
If someone uses a stolen credit card to buy heaps of Zen and then uses that Zen to profiteer, that's not a game economy issue, that's a TOS issue and a criminal act. That action has a protocol and the offender can be reprimanded. This is the extent of what can be done by the developers and by Microsoft. Any and everything else is nonsense really.
**Also since you choose to bring up the court system which has no in-game basis, I will have to go with the opposite of a little known saying, instead of "innocent until proven guilty"....in this case it is and should be "guilty until proven innocent".
How is one to know who is associated with tainted AD. I was in the enclave. Was approached for a trade. I told them I needed AD more than anything. He said just list n item in TH and he would buy it. I got temp ban after that. I now don't accept any trade offers. Sad it came to this.
So banning people isn't a viable option in my opinion. The should lower the price of Zen.
Only permma ban should be people who moded there system.
Wow is all I can come up with to that
Guilty till proven innocent? Really
Only experiencing it first hand overcomes this type of mindset.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
You may lose the car and seek redress against the Dealership but you aren't guilty of anything. This is because you acted in "Good faith" in this instance the Vendor is the one taking action against purchasers for something they cannot possibly know?
Where then is the basic human consideration of "acting in good faith"?
So therefore the idea to punish those costing them money is all they see. So my points are all valid, the whole since they don't know who bought the AD and LOSE them money, then they will ban all people associated because in their view all people associated are costing them money.
*Also, if you are the one with the stolen car you would 100% get booked in jail for a least a brief stay btw.