Players Solution Focused Outreach to Other Players & Cryptic. Let's Get This Fixed.

shoukons · February 2016

Critical thinking, constructive behavior, facing the facts and solution focused conversations are needed to help NW grow and not count their losses every mod drop. I've pointed out 3 basic issues and how they were handled and a basic constructive solution on how to handle this. I'm looking for others to take on a part of this discussion to help with more detailed solutions as to help this game grow in numbers. There are many more problems to be identified and worked on, these are just the three I identified as general issues.

NW on PvE:
Problem: Broken character mechanics are the main issue which cause speed runs & immortal groups which make PvE content Zzz.
Crpytic Solution: Put mandatory timers on the new Skirmishes instead of fixing mechanics to stop speed runs and efficient farming of AD.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though.

NW on PvP:
Problem: Broken character mechanics cause PvP to be a game of no deaths and just running around nodes pushing people.
Cryptic Solution: Add perma-stealth rings for all classes, more broken mechanics.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though. Don't add more broken mechanics.

NW on Economy:
Problem: Chinese food is 1/5th the price of Zen so the masses buy from the cheaper source.
Cryptic Solution: Ban players and blame the players for buying the cheaper AD and say that the players are promoting stealing of accounts for AD.
Constructive Solution: Starve the black market. Making Zen $2-4 more than black market ad per million would immediately close down the black markets for the zen would be at a reasonable price and SAFE. This move by cryptic would save the accounts of all their players, no more ad/accounts stolen, save the integrity of their game and make them more money while enhancing the community. Wouldn't Cryptic want to do that? This would also bring investors back into the parent company for many of us have sold due to the lack of management.

I'd like to see this game live past The Division and DCU Online in strength, not just barely holding on and surviving. Players are always offering help. Why not take it?

telprydain · February 2016

I liked reading in another post that there was an admitted problem with the way it was working: See an issue, putting a sticking plaster on the issue, create a new issue.
Apparently class balance is high on the list for this year, so I look forward to seeing some improvements.

kreatyve · February 2016

I would like to mention that NOTHING is EVER deleted from these forums. Things get hidden from public view, for many reasons, but the devs have access to everything, so if something had to be moderated for whatever reason, the devs can still see it.

They are working on bug fixes just as much as they are working on new content. The last few patches have had quite a few bug fixes, though they also introduced a couple new ones.

They are trying though.

xalorus · February 2016

@shoukons Agreed with the economy aspect of it.

I would just to see the 10% ad trade house cut removed. They did a fantastic job with the transmute price cut. Let these people build off of what they sell. 100k off of a 1m sell still does a lot and for people like me who help other players often that ad can go back to them.

Nice topic and Tc

farmerreg · February 2016

shoukons said:
Critical thinking, constructive behavior, facing the facts and solution focused conversations are needed to help NW grow and not count their losses every mod drop. I've pointed out 3 basic issues and how they were handled and a basic constructive solution on how to handle this. I'm looking for others to take on a part of this discussion to help with more detailed solutions as to help this game grow in numbers. There are many more problems to be identified and worked on, these are just the three I identified as general issues.

NW on PvE:
Problem: Broken character mechanics are the main issue which cause speed runs & immortal groups which make PvE content Zzz.
Crpytic Solution: Put mandatory timers on the new Skirmishes instead of fixing mechanics to stop speed runs and efficient farming of AD.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though.

NW on PvP:
Problem: Broken character mechanics cause PvP to be a game of no deaths and just running around nodes pushing people.
Cryptic Solution: Add perma-stealth rings for all classes, more broken mechanics.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though. Don't add more broken mechanics.

NW on Economy:
Problem: Chinese food is 1/5th the price of Zen so the masses buy from the cheaper source.
Cryptic Solution: Ban players and blame the players for buying the cheaper AD and say that the players are promoting stealing of accounts for AD.
Constructive Solution: Starve the black market. Making Zen $2-4 more than black market ad per million would immediately close down the black markets for the zen would be at a reasonable price and SAFE. This move by cryptic would save the accounts of all their players, no more ad/accounts stolen, save the integrity of their game and make them more money while enhancing the community. Wouldn't Cryptic want to do that? This would also bring investors back into the parent company for many of us have sold due to the lack of management.

I'd like to see this game live past The Division and DCU Online in strength, not just barely holding on and surviving. Players are always offering help. Why not take it?

Bravo!

shoukons · February 2016

xalorus said:
@shoukons Agreed with the economy aspect of it.

I would just to see the 10% ad trade house cut removed. They did a fantastic job with the transmute price cut. Let these people build off of what they sell. 100k off of a 1m sell still does a lot and for people like me who help other players often that ad can go back to them.

Nice topic and Tc

That would def be something to look into. Another topic to bring up within the umbrella of economy. The 10% fee is there to erase AD from the game, the question is if Cryptic has gone overboard with erasing AD and making gaining AP too difficult which then falls into why people buy Chinese food and how Crpytic could eradicate the black market completely with effort which then could be an argument, if the black market AD is eradicated and the zen to AD prices were fair, on keeping the AD eraser of the 10%. All good stuff we can find constructive solutions for and fair balance.

wdj40 · February 2016

kreatyve said:
I would like to mention that NOTHING is EVER deleted from these forums. Things get hidden from public view, for many reasons, but the devs have access to everything, so if something had to be moderated for whatever reason, the devs can still see it.

They are working on bug fixes just as much as they are working on new content. The last few patches have had quite a few bug fixes, though they also introduced a couple new ones. They are trying though.

Normal people just cannot or do not realise how much work actually goes into testing, making and running a video game.

When I was a games tester back in the day, I was testing games on the PS1, Gameboy,PC and N64 etc etc. Just making Power Rangers on the PS1 took 9 months to a year. I could complete the game in 36mins and it was aimed at children but still it takes that long to test, re-test, re-build, re-test etc etc etc.

We had 4-10 people testing it towards the end of the project and at the end of projects we were putting in 80hr weeks or more and working until 2-3am in the morning. That was a very small childrens game so imagine how much testing etc has to go into something like this.

This type of game is extremely difficult to get everything right and balanced as well as make new content and try to repair existing content.

mahburg · February 2016

kreatyve said:
I would like to mention that NOTHING is EVER deleted from these forums. Things get hidden from public view, for many reasons, but the devs have access to everything, so if something had to be moderated for whatever reason, the devs can still see it.

They are working on bug fixes just as much as they are working on new content. The last few patches have had quite a few bug fixes, though they also introduced a couple new ones. They are trying though.

I understand what you are trying to do, but lets be blunt do the devs think any of the players actually believe what they or you as the mods actually say anymore?
They burned their credibility and everyone interfacing with us with the "debacle" until they climb down and fix it no one will believe anything form "officialdom" imho!

firepats12 · February 2016

The only point I object to is the last one. Buying from outside source is against the rules, whether it is more profitable to do so or not does not matter....the rules are the rules. In regards to the "wrongful" bans, if anything was bought with that tainted AD then whoever bought it AND whoever posted the item need to be banned. I only say this because how are the devs supposed to know that the seller didn't ask someone to buy their item with the tainted AD? They can't know for sure, so the easiest thing to do is to ban anyone associated with the tainted AD. They can cry to support all they want but no one can know for 100% certainty that the seller didn't ask someone to buy it. Just my two cents

shoukons · February 2016

wdj40 said:

kreatyve said:
I would like to mention that NOTHING is EVER deleted from these forums. Things get hidden from public view, for many reasons, but the devs have access to everything, so if something had to be moderated for whatever reason, the devs can still see it.

They are working on bug fixes just as much as they are working on new content. The last few patches have had quite a few bug fixes, though they also introduced a couple new ones. They are trying though.
Normal people just cannot or do not realise how much work actually goes into testing, making and running a video game.

When I was a games tester back in the day, I was testing games on the PS1, Gameboy,PC and N64 etc etc. Just making Power Rangers on the PS1 took 9 months to a year. I could complete the game in 36mins and it was aimed at children but still it takes that long to test, re-test, re-build, re-test etc etc etc.

We had 4-10 people testing it towards the end of the project and at the end of projects we were putting in 80hr weeks or more and working until 2-3am in the morning. That was a very small childrens game so imagine how much testing etc has to go into something like this.

This type of game is extremely difficult to get everything right and balanced as well as make new content and try to repair existing content.

Yes, repair the content correctly with time, not quick destructive bandages, I agree with you.

zak3056 · February 2016

firepats12#3687 said:
They can't know for sure, so the easiest thing to do is to ban anyone associated with the tainted AD. They can cry to support all they want but no one can know for 100% certainty that the seller didn't ask someone to buy it. Just my two cents

So, I've gotta ask: exactly what is the motivation of the hypothetical seller you speak of? "Here is some money. Please buy my valuable item at market price" has exactly zero upside for the seller, and that is how a reasonable human being can conclude that they are blameless.

firepats12 · February 2016

The only thing I could think about it is a guildie helping a guildie. One guildie wants a good bit of AD, but the other guildie does not want to blow so much irl money. So the 1st guildie says just buy from the 3rd party site and then buy my item. Seems VERY likely imo. Therefore not "blameless" at all, tainted AD is tainted AD.

mahburg · February 2016

null
The reality is though outside of those very narrow circumstances you have no clue who buys your stuff or the source of their funds
Banning players for being on the wrong end of a transaction seems unfair to me

firepats12 · February 2016

True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.

mahburg · February 2016

firepats12#3687 said:
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.

In that case any of us could get banned I sold a Glorious resurgence pack for over five mill recently how would I know who bought it? I wanted the AD for the Mimic for my guild in case I bail following the recent nonsense (still debating), should I expect a ban for me taking AD off some random dude in the Exchange?

zak3056 · February 2016

firepats12#3687 said:
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.

8/10. The troll was well camouflaged, and very well executed. Bravo, sir.

shoukons · February 2016

firepats12#3687 said:
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.

To give a real life example as another outlet of perspective, this is the exact philosophy going on around in politics. I know one candidate just said that even if 1 of 10,000 refugees is going to be a murderer you shouldn't let the 9,999 in. Anyone see the destructiveness and incorrect pattern with both statements and ways of thinking about refugees and the very narrow circumstances of banning in this game?

yourenext2die · February 2016

"Cryptic Solution: Add perma-stealth rings for all classes, more broken mechanics." Tell me about it. I was going against two OP's that were both holding down two different nodes going in and out of stealth. Complete and utter BS.

shoukons · February 2016

yourenext2die said:
"Cryptic Solution: Add perma-stealth rings for all classes, more broken mechanics." Tell me about it. I was going against two OP's that were both holding down two different nodes going in and out of stealth. Complete and utter BS.

Mandatory to use the stealth and vision rings in PvP. What happened on PC when this mod dropped also happened on XBox. Same philisophical flaw with the Drains/Wards.

s4v10rx · February 2016

shoukons said:
Critical thinking, constructive behavior, facing the facts and solution focused conversations are needed to help NW grow and not count their losses every mod drop. I've pointed out 3 basic issues and how they were handled and a basic constructive solution on how to handle this. I'm looking for others to take on a part of this discussion to help with more detailed solutions as to help this game grow in numbers. There are many more problems to be identified and worked on, these are just the three I identified as general issues.

NW on PvE:
Problem: Broken character mechanics are the main issue which cause speed runs & immortal groups which make PvE content Zzz.
Crpytic Solution: Put mandatory timers on the new Skirmishes instead of fixing mechanics to stop speed runs and efficient farming of AD.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though.

NW on PvP:
Problem: Broken character mechanics cause PvP to be a game of no deaths and just running around nodes pushing people.
Cryptic Solution: Add perma-stealth rings for all classes, more broken mechanics.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though. Don't add more broken mechanics.

NW on Economy:
Problem: Chinese food is 1/5th the price of Zen so the masses buy from the cheaper source.
Cryptic Solution: Ban players and blame the players for buying the cheaper AD and say that the players are promoting stealing of accounts for AD.
Constructive Solution: Starve the black market. Making Zen $2-4 more than black market ad per million would immediately close down the black markets for the zen would be at a reasonable price and SAFE. This move by cryptic would save the accounts of all their players, no more ad/accounts stolen, save the integrity of their game and make them more money while enhancing the community. Wouldn't Cryptic want to do that? This would also bring investors back into the parent company for many of us have sold due to the lack of management.

I'd like to see this game live past The Division and DCU Online in strength, not just barely holding on and surviving. Players are always offering help. Why not take it?

all this complain have been brought up countless times since mod 5 and so far devs does not even bother to fix it. only way MMO to survive is listening to the feedback of the gamers playing this game as gamers is the one that make and break it. take a look at AION, ragnarok online and ultima online, WOW to this day ppl still playing those games as the devs quickly resolve the issues and bugs.

blenderfrog91 · February 2016

The AD problem is so easy, put the black market out of business.

Sell AD in the Zen market, this fixes - immediately - the AD to Zen ratio Arc talks about.

However, Arc is not interested in sustainable, quality measures to improve the game, they're only interested in how much cash can they grab from you before they shut the game down.

shoukons · February 2016

s4v10rx said:

shoukons said:
Critical thinking, constructive behavior, facing the facts and solution focused conversations are needed to help NW grow and not count their losses every mod drop. I've pointed out 3 basic issues and how they were handled and a basic constructive solution on how to handle this. I'm looking for others to take on a part of this discussion to help with more detailed solutions as to help this game grow in numbers. There are many more problems to be identified and worked on, these are just the three I identified as general issues.

NW on PvE:
Problem: Broken character mechanics are the main issue which cause speed runs & immortal groups which make PvE content Zzz.
Crpytic Solution: Put mandatory timers on the new Skirmishes instead of fixing mechanics to stop speed runs and efficient farming of AD.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though.

NW on PvP:
Problem: Broken character mechanics cause PvP to be a game of no deaths and just running around nodes pushing people.
Cryptic Solution: Add perma-stealth rings for all classes, more broken mechanics.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though. Don't add more broken mechanics.

NW on Economy:
Problem: Chinese food is 1/5th the price of Zen so the masses buy from the cheaper source.
Cryptic Solution: Ban players and blame the players for buying the cheaper AD and say that the players are promoting stealing of accounts for AD.
Constructive Solution: Starve the black market. Making Zen $2-4 more than black market ad per million would immediately close down the black markets for the zen would be at a reasonable price and SAFE. This move by cryptic would save the accounts of all their players, no more ad/accounts stolen, save the integrity of their game and make them more money while enhancing the community. Wouldn't Cryptic want to do that? This would also bring investors back into the parent company for many of us have sold due to the lack of management.

I'd like to see this game live past The Division and DCU Online in strength, not just barely holding on and surviving. Players are always offering help. Why not take it?
all this complain have been brought up countless times since mod 5 and so far devs does not even bother to fix it. only way MMO to survive is listening to the feedback of the gamers playing this game as gamers is the one that make and break it. take a look at AION, ragnarok online and ultima online, WOW to this day ppl still playing those games as the devs quickly resolve the issues and bugs.

Zero complains. Just observation, facts and constructive suggested solutions.

s4v10rx · February 2016

shoukons said:

s4v10rx said:

shoukons said:
Critical thinking, constructive behavior, facing the facts and solution focused conversations are needed to help NW grow and not count their losses every mod drop. I've pointed out 3 basic issues and how they were handled and a basic constructive solution on how to handle this. I'm looking for others to take on a part of this discussion to help with more detailed solutions as to help this game grow in numbers. There are many more problems to be identified and worked on, these are just the three I identified as general issues.

NW on PvE:
Problem: Broken character mechanics are the main issue which cause speed runs & immortal groups which make PvE content Zzz.
Crpytic Solution: Put mandatory timers on the new Skirmishes instead of fixing mechanics to stop speed runs and efficient farming of AD.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though.

NW on PvP:
Problem: Broken character mechanics cause PvP to be a game of no deaths and just running around nodes pushing people.
Cryptic Solution: Add perma-stealth rings for all classes, more broken mechanics.
Constructive Solution: Fix broken mechanics, many ways have been outlined in the forums, many erased though. Don't add more broken mechanics.

NW on Economy:
Problem: Chinese food is 1/5th the price of Zen so the masses buy from the cheaper source.
Cryptic Solution: Ban players and blame the players for buying the cheaper AD and say that the players are promoting stealing of accounts for AD.
Constructive Solution: Starve the black market. Making Zen $2-4 more than black market ad per million would immediately close down the black markets for the zen would be at a reasonable price and SAFE. This move by cryptic would save the accounts of all their players, no more ad/accounts stolen, save the integrity of their game and make them more money while enhancing the community. Wouldn't Cryptic want to do that? This would also bring investors back into the parent company for many of us have sold due to the lack of management.

I'd like to see this game live past The Division and DCU Online in strength, not just barely holding on and surviving. Players are always offering help. Why not take it?
all this complain have been brought up countless times since mod 5 and so far devs does not even bother to fix it. only way MMO to survive is listening to the feedback of the gamers playing this game as gamers is the one that make and break it. take a look at AION, ragnarok online and ultima online, WOW to this day ppl still playing those games as the devs quickly resolve the issues and bugs.
Zero complains. Just observation, facts and constructive suggested solutions.

meh..the dev or the main team of programmers that is in charge of this game is not gonna do anything about it, u should know that by now bruh no matter the countless of feedback, observation and constructive criticism that the community provide to cryptic.

firepats12 · February 2016

zak3056 said:

firepats12#3687 said:
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.
8/10. The troll was well camouflaged, and very well executed. Bravo, sir.

Thanks, but it wasn't a troll. I am 100% serious.

firepats12 · February 2016

mahburg said:

firepats12#3687 said:
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.
In that case any of us could get banned I sold a Glorious resurgence pack for over five mill recently how would I know who bought it? I wanted the AD for the Mimic for my guild in case I bail following the recent nonsense (still debating), should I expect a ban for me taking AD off some random dude in the Exchange?

Well if this "random" dude as you say had bought the item with tainted AD, then maybe you will get banned. Its all he said she said. You and all the others can claim all day long that you had no idea that the AD was tainted, but no one knows for sure. Is it an odd way to handle things, sure. But as I said, better to ban all associated with tainted AD than to try and weed through all the liers that claim they had no idea it was tainted AD.

s4v10rx · February 2016

firepats12#3687 said:

mahburg said:

firepats12#3687 said:
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.
In that case any of us could get banned I sold a Glorious resurgence pack for over five mill recently how would I know who bought it? I wanted the AD for the Mimic for my guild in case I bail following the recent nonsense (still debating), should I expect a ban for me taking AD off some random dude in the Exchange?
Well if this "random" dude as you say had bought the item with tainted AD, then maybe you will get banned. Its all he said she said. You and all the others can claim all day long that you had no idea that the AD was tainted, but no one knows for sure. Is it an odd way to handle things, sure. But as I said, better to ban all associated with tainted AD than to try and weed through all the liers that claim they had no idea it was tainted AD.

u do know that u r talking about 90% of the individuals that is playing this game right? cryptic is just shooting themselves on the foot if they start giving perma ban to AD seller and buyer, as no1 is goig to play and support this game if they start doing that.

firepats12 · February 2016

s4v10rx said:

firepats12#3687 said:

mahburg said:

firepats12#3687 said:
True they are very narrow circumstances, but its better to ban all associated with the AD than to just guess who is in the wrong.
In that case any of us could get banned I sold a Glorious resurgence pack for over five mill recently how would I know who bought it? I wanted the AD for the Mimic for my guild in case I bail following the recent nonsense (still debating), should I expect a ban for me taking AD off some random dude in the Exchange?
Well if this "random" dude as you say had bought the item with tainted AD, then maybe you will get banned. Its all he said she said. You and all the others can claim all day long that you had no idea that the AD was tainted, but no one knows for sure. Is it an odd way to handle things, sure. But as I said, better to ban all associated with tainted AD than to try and weed through all the liers that claim they had no idea it was tainted AD.
u do know that u r talking about 90% of the individuals that is playing this game right? cryptic is just shooting themselves on the foot if they start giving perma ban to AD seller and buyer, as no1 is goig to play and support this game if they start doing that.

90%? I highly doubt that. Only a small minority of people actually waste money on this game anyway. And typically those who waste money are those you get items worth selling for high prices. Thus those people are maybe 30-40% of the players(and that percent is being really generous).

armadeonx · February 2016

Lol so you want to ban 30-40% of the player base just in case some of them buy AD? Have you actually thought through the consequences of that..?

Unfairness aside, you are talking about banning the players who spend real money via the Zen market - that means the real money dries up & the game closes due to lack of profits; leaving the other 60-70% with no game. I.e. 100% of the player base loses, as do Cryptic & PWE. Blanket banning based on a probability is completely counter productive.

The proper solution is this:

1. Know the market value of all items
2. Have traceability of items so their sources are known
3. Have a reputation score associated with all player accounts

This allows Cryptic to automatically know:

a. If an item is being sold at a highly inflated price to transfer AD
b. If items have been picked up with 'stolen' Zen then transferred by personal trade to the purchaser
c. If an account is new or has been previously linked with suspect sales

This allows for targeted banning backed up by evidence, rather than the 'net casting' method they are currently using.

Players Solution Focused Outreach to Other Players & Cryptic. Let's Get This Fixed.

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