Are TRs a viable option to make the main character? + Advisory Questions

imperiousshini · February 2016

Hi,
I already have a DC and a GWF for pve but I want to play smth new, I now have lvled both on HR (trapper) and one (TR)
From those two when i noticed the TRs feats i was amazed! With all those damage/crit/crit.sev buffs shouldn't they be top DPS ?
I mean GWf are very fine but i think they trade dps for survivability as a class which make me think if SW are really the best dps around.

I know that during mods passed TRs were the ultimate destruction machine where they soloed every dungeon (or so I've heard) but they got nerfed?

From my dungeon runs I notice that either TRs are really weak at least weaker from GWF and SW and easy to die or they'll solo the dungeon from the damage output they have (only seen few players that good).

After going through the feats I wonder what the best dps build for pve would be like?

Will a combination of Dailies ( Shocking Execution - Lurker's Assault) where I use shocking execution with the feat to fill my AP and use lurker's assault to activate the bonus dmg having in tray the feat Invisible Infiltrator be the best stealthed dagger I could produce? which means a DC sigil should be my main artifact? or is the AP gain sufficient as the item lvl gets higher?

Also having all these good feats I wonder at which I should spend my points on?
Are the feats that require a certain amount of HP to be missing good? In particular is Deathknell usable cause i haven't used the class in smth other than lvling and if the target is below 30% and it isn't a boss wouldn't be killed almost instantly from other dpsers?

I was told that the best path to pick are Infiltrator and Executioner but I have to say I REALLY dislike the Deulist flurry at will if the target is moving or if the target get killed i remain like stunned and that'd make me vulnerable to incoming attacks, I can only stop the flurry by using stamina which is not that efficient. Is there a certain way to make this At-Will a great weapon?

Also are the Drows the best race for them or is it another race the best?
Which dice roll is the best :S

Sorry for all those Questions!
Shini

Unknown · February 2016

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Unknown · February 2016

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imperiousshini · February 2016

arcofortep12 said:
No they are not top DPS but they are boss killers. Both GWF and SW are top DPS if people build their toons for that. TR are very survivable because they can easiliy lose all the aggro they can get and have high Crit Severity + Chance. Both GWF (Destro) and SW are made of glass, though an SW shoud be more mobile and also have less chances to fall in 'reds'.
But are you talking about PVE or PVP? Because SE is a Daily you should use in a PVP setting. In PVP both GWF and SW are underperforming if not geared.
Races provide small buffs. I would not choose a race because of performance.

Am talking about PVE mainly and why is a PVP daily the Shocking Execution?

ghoulz66 · February 2016

arcofortep12 said:
No they are not top DPS but they are boss killers. Both GWF and SW are top DPS if people build their toons for that.

GWF is top DPS and boring, SW is top DPS only in groups.

aaramis75 · February 2016

To answer the original question - most DPS classes excel at either single-target DPS or AoE DPS. Only GWF destroyer currently excels at both, hence why it tends to be top DPS on paingiver charts.

TRs often don't top DPS charts because they're built for single-target DPS over AoE, and dungeons are generally filled with trash mobs where AoE classes excel.

Throw in the fact that GWF can also stand in red and continue to DPS, and deal their damage instantly and not over time via DoTs, and it's no surprise they rank 1st on the charts.

flyingleon · February 2016

Yes!!! Because many great TR out there.

Unknown · February 2016

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sirjimbofrancis · February 2016

A good geared mi executioner can hold their own with just about all but the highest geared gwfs out there in pve. Don't be afraid to try!

fantasycharacter · February 2016

ghoulz66 said:

arcofortep12 said:
SW is top DPS only in groups.

I'm gonna bet they are also top DPS in thier instance when they solo :P

Unknown · February 2016

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silverkelt · February 2016

every class is viable in pve. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise.. including hr trappers. THERE ARE lines on every class that are "not" top optimal performance.. but dont let poeple tell you you cant run any class. They all do well enough in what they do.

AS you gear up.. and exceed 3k+ it matters even less.. everything dies so quick.. if you happen to be the "dps" option.. ANY of the classes can do well enough to carry anything.. including edemo.

I will say at lower i levels, gwf is clearly a easier option and they are GREAT farming toons, as you dont have to super gear them to blow through all the dailies.

putzboy78 · February 2016

agree with the above. It really depends on what role you want to play in the group. Do you want to focus on clearing trash mobs or do you want to nuke the boss? TR is for nuking the boss. I used to have a cw designed for chewing up trash mobs. We would clear the dungeon then I'd be like "okay i got us here its your turn" because my single target damage was terrible. I would always top dps chart, but it didn't mean my role was any more important to the success of the team (trash clearer an make for fast runs but lets face it, even a low dps team can clear trash with the gift of time).

TR can be good for dungeons and I've been with some very good ones that use smoke bomb to stun the mobs versus using a tank to take the initial agro/beat down.

So yes TR can be a great addition to a PVE team

Personally i enjoy playing tr, he's like a little ninja rolling around throwing daggers.

As noted by @arcofortep12 the races have far less meaning at end game than they did prior to mod 6. This is because diminishing returns were removed (we used racial bonuses to stack more stats without diminishing return penalty). In general i recommend you pick the race that you can stand to look at a couple hours a day. In general half orc is considered to be the best race because of the crit severity bonus (crit severity is difficult and expensive to stack).

Unknown · February 2016

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Unknown · February 2016

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kurtb88 · February 2016

TS I have a TR as my main. She is 2844 Total Item Level (TiL) and deals really good damage in PvE. She is constantly winning paingiver in groups with equal TiL, and even beating other TR's that are over 3K TiL. Of course she rarely out damages GWF's that are well geared and played properly, but that's a given in Neverwinter. She is totally setup for PvE because I rarely PvP. I don't think I would consider doing PvP until I at least his 3500 TiL.

From my experience TR is very enjoyable to play, and very powerful in groups or when solo. The combination of high single-target and AoE damage, plus a TR's ability at constant crowd control makes the class one of the best. Therefore I highly recommend TR as a main class.

I have tried several builds, came up with them myself, and the best one for PvE, in my opinion is:

Race: Half-Orc
Class: Trickster Rogue
Paragon Path: Master Infiltrator
Feat Line: Executioner

Starting Ability Scores (these are the scores I rolled originally in 2013; they could perhaps be better if the strength was higher)

15 Str
10 Con
20 Dex
10 Int
08 Wis
13 Cha

Add all ability score increases to Strength and Dexterity for final scores:

22 Str
12 Con
27 Dex
12 Int
10 Wis
15 Cha

Then after equipping maxed Golden Belt of Puissance and adding Campfire your scores are:

25 Str
13 Con
30 Dex
13 Int
11 Wis
16 Cha

Heroic Feats:

Action Advantage (1/5)
Weapon Mastery (3/3)
Toughness (3/3)
Cunning Ambusher (3/3)
Endless Assault (3/3)
Lucky Skirmisher (2/3)
Scoundrel Training (2/3)
Disciple of Strength (3/3)

Paragon Feats:

Flashing Blades (5/5) [Saboteur]
Roll With The Punches (5/5) [Scoundrel]
Bloody Brawler (5/5) [Scoundrel]
Arterial Cut (5/5) [Executioner]
Vicious Pursuit (5/5) [Executioner]
Dying Breath (5/5) [Executioner]
Death Knell (5/5) [Executioner]
Last Moments (5/5) [Executioner]
Shadow of Demise (1) [Executioner]

Powers

Class Features:
Skillful Infiltrator
First Strike

Encounters:
Dazing Strike
Lashing Blade
Smoke Bomb

At-Wills:
Sly Flourish
Duelist's Flurry

Dailies:
Shocking Execution
Whirlwind of Blades

Boons

Sharandar: Dark Fey Hunter, Fey Elusiveness, Elven Haste, Elven Ferocity, Elvish Fury
Dread Ring: Conjurer's Gambit, Evoker's Thirst, Illusion Shimmer, Shadow Touch, Endless Consumption
Icewind Dale: Encroaching Tactics, Refreshing Chill, Sleet Skills, Cool Resolve, Winters Bounty
Underdark: Primordial Might, Primordial Regenesis, Drow Ambush Tactics, Dwarven Stamina, Abyssal Strikes
Tyranny of Dragons: Dragon's Claws, Dragon's Gaze, Draconic Armorbreaker, Dragon's Greed, Dragon's Thirst (1/3), Dragon's Fury (1/3), Dragon's Revival (1/3)

Active Companions:
Dancing Blade (Erinyes of Belial is better but costs 10 times as much)
Seige Master
Air Archon
Fire Archon
Ioun Stone of Radiance (Summoned)

For combat you Stealth in on a fresh group of mobs and hit them with Dazing Strike which crits them all for huge amount because of First Strike (and it's even better if your Artifact Off-hand Class Feature is set to First Strike). Then you smoke bomb and use at-wills to finish them off. Whenever your daily is up, and there are lots of mobs, Stealth and hit Whirlwind of Blades for huge crits on every mob. Otherwise keep using encounters when they are ready, stealth and use smoke bomb when you can because it stuns everything for a long time and deals a lot of critical "damage over time" to them all. If the mobs have high health I start with Flurry to get some bleeds going, then switch to Flourish to finish them off.

With the feats and companions you deal the most damage after the mob has less then 50% health: your damage begins to skyrocket from the Fire Archon plus Death Knell and Last Moments. I made sure to upgrade all my companions to Purple to get the most damage increase out of them and it really pays off, someday I will upgrade Dancing Blade into Erinyes of Belial for another +5% Crit severity.

P.s. I only use Shocking Execution when fighting a single target like a boss or mini-boss.

I can't think of anything else to say at the moment. If anyone makes this TR build I hope they like it.

wanderer0000 · February 2016

TR is a great class, it is much more fun to play than gwf for dps, are at least as good as a cw on control and can buff the party damage by a lot with wicked reminder. Also you can do GREAT damage with TR just need to mind your position and powers timing much more than just bash all the buttons like the gwf. it is hard to find because most trs are pvp builds, but a nice pve tr build played right can do as much damage as any dedicated dps in game.

godsblade · February 2016

wanderer0000 said:
TR is a great class, it is much more fun to play than gwf for dps, are at least as good as a cw on control and can buff the party damage by a lot with wicked reminder. Also you can do GREAT damage with TR just need to mind your position and powers timing much more than just bash all the buttons like the gwf. it is hard to find because most trs are pvp builds, but a nice pve tr build played right can do as much damage as any dedicated dps in game.

are at least as good as a cw on control and can buff the party damage by a lot

might want to add, go invisible at will, has built in movement speed and looks pretty cool too.

The quote would and should be a hint to Cryptic CW may need a control boost.

Rolen

aaramis75 · February 2016

godsblace said:

might want to add, go invisible at will, has built in movement speed and looks pretty cool too.

The quote would and should be a hint to Cryptic CW may need a control boost.

Rolen

They can't go invisible at will unless specifically built for it (and most aren't that kind of build); and the built-in movement speed is only using certain class features, which not everyone uses, and isn't all THAT noticeable. A minor boost, if nothing else.

putzboy78 · February 2016

The invisible part can be a nuisance for party play without tank however, that's four people sharing the damage of five. So please be considerate unless your running with geared teams that can handle he extra agro (especially if one of those people are wearing lvl 60 T1 gear)

gluggo · February 2016

my 3200 IL TR (Worm) loafs around now while my 2400 IL HR (Budzo) has taken his place. I find him much more enjoyable to play, much more effective at getting his daillies done and I feel more useful in groups and in heroic encounters.

but, I digress, it may be that I just like the mechanics of the HR better, he just seems more fun to me at this time.

lag can be a ball-buster to a TR, I seem to cope with it better on my HR.

and who needs stealth anymore? just get an Ambush ring.

lwedar · February 2016

Here is the real test, look at LFG channel and see what classes people are asking for. This will always show you the most OP class for a given role during the current mod. They nerf and buff so much in this game mod to mod that each class has had a shining moment. They they slowly fade as another class gets their buffs.

TR damage will probably get a buff in the next balancing patch

pjz99 · February 2016

aaramis75 said:

...and the built-in movement speed is only using certain class features, which not everyone uses, and isn't all THAT noticeable. A minor boost, if nothing else.

20% run speed at rank 4 isn't minor.

As somebody who owns both an exe rogue and a swords/destroyer GWF, imo TR needs a large buff to damage, single-target and AOE. My GWF can just stand in huge crowds of CC immune stuff and smash it all, occasionally pressing tab/encounters, my TR has to throw smoke bomb/dazing and roll a lot and wait for cooldowns. I don't think they're in the same ballpark at all, with similar gear score.

e:

kurtb88 said:
Class Features:
Skillful Infiltrator
First Strike

Encounters:
Dazing Strike
Lashing Blade
Smoke Bomb

At-Wills:
Sly Flourish
Duelist's Flurry

Dailies:
Shocking Execution
Whirlwind of Blades

This is the same power selection I use, my feats are a little different but very close.

ghoulz66 · February 2016

The problem is, is that TRs are fine as they are. It's SW imbalances in parties and GWFs who make them look terrible.

imperiousshini · February 2016

Thank you all very much for your answers I ll try the build and their differences in Preview!!

kurtb88 · February 2016

pjz99 said:

aaramis75 said:

...and the built-in movement speed is only using certain class features, which not everyone uses, and isn't all THAT noticeable. A minor boost, if nothing else.
20% run speed at rank 4 isn't minor.

As somebody who owns both an exe rogue and a swords/destroyer GWF, imo TR needs a large buff to damage, single-target and AOE. My GWF can just stand in huge crowds of CC immune stuff and smash it all, occasionally pressing tab/encounters, my TR has to throw smoke bomb/dazing and roll a lot and wait for cooldowns. I don't think they're in the same ballpark at all, with similar gear score.

e:
kurtb88 said:
Class Features:
Skillful Infiltrator
First Strike

Encounters:
Dazing Strike
Lashing Blade
Smoke Bomb

At-Wills:
Sly Flourish
Duelist's Flurry

Dailies:
Shocking Execution
Whirlwind of Blades
This is the same power selection I use, my feats are a little different but very close.

Yes they pretty much work the best for me in PvE. I find the rotation efficient and fun.

putzboy78 · February 2016

without lol set my 1.7 tr is far easier and better to play than my GWF.

pjz99 · February 2016

kurtb88 said:
Yes they pretty much work the best for me in PvE. I find the rotation efficient and fun.

I dunno I wouldn't really say doing zero DPS waiting for cooldowns is all that efficient - granted Flurry is really good for single target but meanwhile the GWF presses tab and does comparable/better single target and pretty damn good AOE /shrug

putzboy78 said:
without lol set my 1.7 tr is far easier and better to play than my GWF.

If you're geared for deflect/regen, I hope you enjoy it while it lasts because essentially no rogue gear above itemlevel 115 has either on it, outside of artifact slots.

kurtb88 · February 2016

pjz99 said:

kurtb88 said:
Yes they pretty much work the best for me in PvE. I find the rotation efficient and fun.
I dunno I wouldn't really say doing zero DPS waiting for cooldowns is all that efficient

rofl...i deal 30-80 million dmg dood

pjz99 · February 2016

I'm glad you like your TR /shrug GWF is just plain way better defensively, and very competitive offensively.

setill · February 2016

Use an howlbear companion, don't go stealth, raise your power with whirlwind of blade and DC ap bug, smoke and path of blades, enjoy.

Are TRs a viable option to make the main character? + Advisory Questions

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