My opinion on drains is that they are uneffective waste of overload slot. I do use ward, only rank 1 because this is all I have. I haven't really seen many using rank 2 drains yet but I know guilds have them here and there not everyone just use them.
I think AP drains is particularly good against lagadins, and should be used to counter Divine Protector at all cost, especially if that lagadin only has rank 1 ward, he should be dealt with rank 2 drain. Maybe that's harsh but this is what I think of Divine Protector and Lag Inc.
Boons and all good associated with Strongholds are there because of hard collective, everyday, work and motivation of all the guild members to excel even further, so they should be available for those who are dedicated and this also counts towards the recruiters, that made guild big and recruits appropriate people, it's mainly thanks to them and good management of the guild that makes it possible, I find agrument that someone is in a small guild not a valid one, because that is a management flaw not the game issue.
Rank 2 drains are being used daily in solo, duo, trio, and full PMs from certain guilds my friend, the fact that you haven't seen many tells me how much you PVP. Secondarily they are not ineffective. Unless you have a ward of the same level to counter them then plan on your team getting wrekt most likely.
The "lagadin" problem is only made worse if the lagadin actually has the drains lol. If you outgear the pally and have a higher guild so you have drains you could most likely have killed that pally, sans drains, anyway if he was focused. End game Pallies already have access to drains and wards.
I don't have any problem with guilds that get a lot of benefits from their SH (although in PVP 8k of a stat is ridic lol) but the main problem is that with drains against those who don't have them or who have lesser wards/drains the game is not a game. It's just a matter of standing still while your opponent wrecks you. It's like the dumbest mechanic in the history of gaming that I've run across tbh. There is no game, no matter how unbalanced, I've ever seen where a single implementation stops you from doing anything effective.
So while I agree with you that good leadership builds guilds, and bigger guilds get advantages, I 100% disagree that this should be one of them. Single worst design move of the game imho.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Well what I meant is that I don't use them, I go with a ward yes, but not with drain.
I don't PvP all day, partly because I solo queue and miss the fun of premade run and partly because I do some PvE content and other fun stuff with guildies that is not PvP. That's why I probably missed some part of the issue mentioned there, I simply wanted to point out that I do not like the concept in general. I'm able to take out many paladins, mostly but it's not a rule, depending on my PUG setup and enemy setup. Well I don't enjoy paladin addition to the game, both to PvE and to PvP, that's why I wrote about that rank 2 drains taking on Lagadins.
Well simply those who use it, they will continue and those who don't they won't. Fact is that they can be countered and if you feel like it you can always slot 2 wards for each type of drain.
In my opinion drains or wards altogether don't give as much advantage as ambush and vision rings in these specific situations.
Again, I must disagree, you've clearly not fought an HR with rank 2 drains who keeps you perma stunned, without stamina, and completely without daily. You become useless as they whittle you down. No chance to dodge to break the chain at all.
Also TR's using Bloodbath will drain an entire node, it goes on and on man. While I completely agree rings of vision and ambush need to be done away with as well (maybe my next poll/post) they are not worse than drains. Drains literally ruin any PVP experience and make people walk away from this game and never look back.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
[//] Drains help lower geared/ lower skilled players to survive longer.
"Drains help lower geared players defeat higher geared players. Drains help lower skilled players defeat higher skilled players."
I wouldn't say defeat But be able to survive longer, which is ok. (instead of being an easy kill.) A BIS Players will always stay in Advantage, no matter if such enemy use drains or the Rings Ambush/Coward etc.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
[//] Drains help lower geared/ lower skilled players to survive longer.
"Drains help lower geared players defeat higher geared players. Drains help lower skilled players defeat higher skilled players."
I wouldn't say defeat But be able to survive longer, which is ok. (instead of being an easy kill.) A BIS Players will always stay in Advantage, no matter if such enemy use drains or the Rings Ambush/Coward etc.
Problem is man, unless that BIS player has some principles (i.e. has issues with using the drains because they think they'r a broken game mechanic) they will have access to higher drains than you + better gear. It doesn't really pan out man. They'll either have wards for your drains or higher level drains and stop you from doing anything. This is why drains don't help anyone except already geared, high level SH guilded peeps tbh.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
It makes PVP worse by taking away from game mechanics.
I think the *vs overload (Wizard, GWF, GF, TR, HR exc...) are quite interesting. Players are all different, some players might have issues with a class, some with another...those overloads could potentially create some variety, with player slotting different offensive or defensive, specific overloads, and others going just for a generic boost with black ice overloads or glyphs.
Instead, we're all stuck with drains and wards because these overloads overperform and outperform all the other overloads. Tyrion is right: they do not help less geared people and guilds. They're just another powerful tool for high SH players/ guilds. And they force every player who refuses to use them, to slot wards. Also: imagine 2 players using stamina drains. They hit each others till they have no stamina left (few seconds). After that what you get is a duel with no dodges. In an action-oriented combat system, this is unacceptable.
It makes PVP worse by taking away from game mechanics.
well for example yesterday drains helped me to teach a lesson to well known ambush ring user cw. Thanks drains? but ye in an ideal lack of broken items like ambush ring and broken mechanics like haste dc and perma bubble, drains should be removed asap
It makes PVP worse by taking away from game mechanics.
I met some BIS CW´s using ambush ring last days, and I do not like that from so called "skilled player" from know PVP guilds, it´s cheap tbh the guys that used them were by far not the best CW´s I met, these player are more like trolls imo stamina drains rank 2 is more than stupid, you are disabled, that´s it, no game no fun no competition just c.rap
I met some BIS CW´s using ambush ring last days, and I do not like that from so called "skilled player" from know PVP guilds, it´s cheap tbh the guys that used them were by far not the best CW´s I met, these player are more like trolls imo stamina drains rank 2 is more than stupid, you are disabled, that´s it, no game no fun no competition just c.rap
+1
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Drains are a pathetic way for people with low skill and high gear score to stomp pug teams and feel better about themselves.
Oh my dear God! These rings are really a pain in the neck. I have to write this down, cause we average players fight our way daily through a lot of AFKers and other nonsense in Demonic HEs and/or skirmishes to get a better ring for our main(s) or our alts, something like crit or power, while RNG blesses some mega trolling people with those legendary ones.
Met a Pali in PVE in eLOL, had a quick look at him, +5 legendary ring of Ambush paired with a +4 Cowardice Ring and drains all over in every overload slot. A Bubbladin.... Guess where he uses it normally.
I really have to fight with my senses, how uneducated some are, that they can't see, that their 15 mins trolling in PVP cuts the wooden bridge under themselves. 15 mins of "fun" once or twice and in a month the guy won't find anybody in PVP, because of lack of population.
I could answer my question, but won't do it of course and all you here complaining, you too could also, is humanity now so dumb, they can't see the obvious?
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
It makes PVP worse by taking away from game mechanics.
Soi it looks like, at the time of this post, that around 80% if those who answered this poll feel these drains are detrimental. Approx 12% think they add depth to the PVP environment, and 8% think they help a select group to overcome a gap.
Devs, I think this is pretty telling. I mean seriously, the vast majority of players hate these drains. I'm going to writ another post with some possible adjustment suggestions if you won't consider removing them altogether. I hope this catches your attention though, and is on your "radar".
Thanks for your time.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
dragoness10Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 780Arc User
edited February 2016
Drains are a pathetic way for people with low skill and high gear score to stomp pug teams and feel better about themselves.
Think for a minute if you'd like to be stripped naked of gear, unable to use a mount, not able to consume potions, not able to use items, and had your stats equalized to everyone elses' of your class.
Everyone hated that sort of idea in Neverwinter Classic for warzone specific areas, and I think that holds true here too.
PS. I just clicked one of the options for voting. Oops. I need pay better attention, or have more coffee. One of the two.
" I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
0
architect40Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 20Arc User
edited February 2016
Drains add depth to the PVP experience.
It hurts the mechanics of the game? How lame can you get? Many of the mechanics are becoming overpowered and need a way to be offset. In my opinion AP gain in the game is ridiculously high now in the game, and the drains help to offset the spamming of dailies. Only HRs have cool downs on their dailies. If every class had cool downs on their dailies AP drains wouldn't be necessary! Also, DCs, GFs, and OPs are way overpowered and it helps to offset their overpowered abilities. If you think AP and stamina are essential to your build then you need to use the wards.
Yes, as a HR I choose to use rank 2 drains in all pvp, but only choose to use the Pokémon rings in strong hold pvp. Believe me it doesn't help that much!
It hurts the mechanics of the game? How lame can you get? Many of the mechanics are becoming overpowered and need a way to be offset. In my opinion AP gain in the game is ridiculously high now in the game, and the drains help to offset the spamming of dailies. Only HRs have cool downs on their dailies. If every class had cool downs on their dailies AP drains wouldn't be necessary! Also, DCs, GFs, and OPs are way overpowered and it helps to offset their overpowered abilities. If you think AP and stamina are essential to your build then you need to use the wards.
Yes, as a HR I choose to use rank 2 drains in all pvp, but only choose to use the Pokémon rings in strong hold pvp. Believe me it doesn't help that much!
Just lol at everything you said. HR has cool down on their dailies? Dude you can pop your daily "disruptive shot" faster than any other daily that any other class has. The reason there is a "cooldown" is because it doesn't consume all your AP, you constantly have it available. It's like having another encounter power that also procs your drains.
The "pokemon" rings, I assume you mean ambush rings. If you think they don't help much then I don't know what to tell you. Between ambush rings and AP drains HR's are like invisible and unkillable and they will lock you down till you die.
So either: 1) you don't know your class well 2) You're trying to disguise how insanely OP these drains are on HRs or 3) You're trolling.
Honestly I don't care which as each elicits the same response. LOL
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
It hurts the mechanics of the game? How lame can you get? Many of the mechanics are becoming overpowered and need a way to be offset. In my opinion AP gain in the game is ridiculously high now in the game, and the drains help to offset the spamming of dailies. Only HRs have cool downs on their dailies. If every class had cool downs on their dailies AP drains wouldn't be necessary! Also, DCs, GFs, and OPs are way overpowered and it helps to offset their overpowered abilities. If you think AP and stamina are essential to your build then you need to use the wards.
Yes, as a HR I choose to use rank 2 drains in all pvp, but only choose to use the Pokémon rings in strong hold pvp. Believe me it doesn't help that much!
depth to the game...lol. My stamina is zero being drained by rank 2, not moving 1 mm even using rank 1 wards, since cryptic forgot (as they allways do) to implement anything like a Cooldown. I can walk like a snail and my shiftmechanic normally adding a 30% DR and cc immunity is not working any more. A GWF with bravery using battle fury can dance arround me and twohit me with ease by that, redicules. You obviously are one of these troll-members (two PVP guilds got these enchants for know?) using drains constantly, no skill player for sure, I only can laugh about the stupidity destroying your own battelfield, few month and all you can do is play with your epeen on the node, have fun PVP guilds these days must be really, really desperate, taking every 3k+ up to BIS nub without anything like skill or behaviour
Drains actually have the potential to be a good addition to the game, but like so many things in NW, Cryptic had to find some way to monetize them, so they tied them to Stronghold progression.
There are 2 drains and 2 wards (Stamina and AP), so when you slot one you are always taking a risk. If you slot 2 drains, you are vulnerable to drains yourself. Slot 2 wards, and you are immune to drains. The theory is good ... where cryptic failed horribly here was by not making them available equally to everyone. Worse yet, they made them in 2 ranks, just so the high ranking guilds always had an advantage over low ranking ones.
So, good in theory, bad in implementation.
<<Edit - It's also worth pointing out that polls like this are totally pointless. Drains are not likely to go away given that a considerable amount of time, effort and (most importantly) Zen has gone into building up guild halls so people have rank 1 or 2 drains.>>
Drains actually have the potential to be a good addition to the game, but like so many things in NW, Cryptic had to find some way to monetize them, so they tied them to Stronghold progression.
There are 2 drains and 2 wards (Stamina and AP), so when you slot one you are always taking a risk. If you slot 2 drains, you are vulnerable to drains yourself. Slot 2 wards, and you are immune to drains. The theory is good ... where cryptic failed horribly here was by not making them available equally to everyone. Worse yet, they made them in 2 ranks, just so the high ranking guilds always had an advantage over low ranking ones.
So, good in theory, bad in implementation.
<<Edit - It's also worth pointing out that polls like this are totally pointless. Drains are not likely to go away given that a considerable amount of time, effort and (most importantly) Zen has gone into building up guild halls so people have rank 1 or 2 drains.>>
Well, interestingly you voted for one thing and then gave all the reasons why you should've voted for another. Yes, had the drains and wards been available to everyone then everyone could slot wards and we basically have overload slots for nothing. Well freaking done cryptic.
Secondarily you go on to state that polls, like the one you just voted and posted on, are totally pointless... Yet you decided it was worth your time. You see the reason we post these things is that feedback may not immediately give us gratification in the form of deletion of drains but it does have the potential to get noticed and factored in to future decisions, or changes to the drains actions and/or availability.
The forums aren't always going to give us what we want from the devs, but at least with honest open feedback we can try to give them player perspective and try to help positively influence the game we enjoy.
Thanks for your time.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Well, interestingly you voted for one thing and then gave all the reasons why you should've voted for another. Yes, had the drains and wards been available to everyone then everyone could slot wards and we basically have overload slots for nothing. Well freaking done cryptic.
Secondarily you go on to state that polls, like the one you just voted and posted on, are totally pointless... Yet you decided it was worth your time. You see the reason we post these things is that feedback may not immediately give us gratification in the form of deletion of drains but it does have the potential to get noticed and factored in to future decisions, or changes to the drains actions and/or availability.
The forums aren't always going to give us what we want from the devs, but at least with honest open feedback we can try to give them player perspective and try to help positively influence the game we enjoy.
Thanks for your time.
I actually do believe that drains could have been a useful addition to the game. They do add to the strategy of the game in one sense ... for example, Do I slot an AP drain to help me deal with the permabubble OP on the other team knowing it will leave me only able to slot one ward. Which one do I choose?
Linking the overloads to the Stronghold though changes this considerably - now it's put in the best drains you have and let those with a lesser stronghold suffer. Drains now are an advantage to those guilds who have a rank 8 market (and to a lesser extent those with a rank 8 one).
I also realize the forums are handy feedback for the devs, which is why I DID post here. I'm not expecting changes though .. and given their recent track record I am not even sure I'm expecting them to consider the balance implications next time the opportunity to make a few dollars comes their way .... in fact, I am willing to bet that the next mod will bring us some very expensive and very OP "must have" mounts that further destroy what little balance we have left. But yes, I did post, and I do hope they are reading. I'm just not optimistic at all.
I actually do believe that drains could have been a useful addition to the game.
Could've been, but weren't, which goes back to my original statement. They do not, in their current state, add depth to the game. They add troll and even more gear/guild disparity.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Comments
The "lagadin" problem is only made worse if the lagadin actually has the drains lol. If you outgear the pally and have a higher guild so you have drains you could most likely have killed that pally, sans drains, anyway if he was focused. End game Pallies already have access to drains and wards.
I don't have any problem with guilds that get a lot of benefits from their SH (although in PVP 8k of a stat is ridic lol) but the main problem is that with drains against those who don't have them or who have lesser wards/drains the game is not a game. It's just a matter of standing still while your opponent wrecks you. It's like the dumbest mechanic in the history of gaming that I've run across tbh. There is no game, no matter how unbalanced, I've ever seen where a single implementation stops you from doing anything effective.
So while I agree with you that good leadership builds guilds, and bigger guilds get advantages, I 100% disagree that this should be one of them. Single worst design move of the game imho.
Also TR's using Bloodbath will drain an entire node, it goes on and on man. While I completely agree rings of vision and ambush need to be done away with as well (maybe my next poll/post) they are not worse than drains. Drains literally ruin any PVP experience and make people walk away from this game and never look back.
"Drains help lower geared players defeat higher geared players.
Drains help lower skilled players defeat higher skilled players."
I wouldn't say defeat But be able to survive longer, which is ok. (instead of being an easy kill.)
A BIS Players will always stay in Advantage, no matter if such enemy use drains or the Rings Ambush/Coward etc.
Instead, we're all stuck with drains and wards because these overloads overperform and outperform all the other overloads.
Tyrion is right: they do not help less geared people and guilds. They're just another powerful tool for high SH players/ guilds. And they force every player who refuses to use them, to slot wards.
Also: imagine 2 players using stamina drains. They hit each others till they have no stamina left (few seconds). After that what you get is a duel with no dodges. In an action-oriented combat system, this is unacceptable.
but ye in an ideal lack of broken items like ambush ring and broken mechanics like haste dc and perma bubble, drains should be removed asap
tbh the guys that used them were by far not the best CW´s I met, these player are more like trolls imo
stamina drains rank 2 is more than stupid, you are disabled, that´s it, no game no fun no competition just c.rap
Met a Pali in PVE in eLOL, had a quick look at him, +5 legendary ring of Ambush paired with a +4 Cowardice Ring and drains all over in every overload slot. A Bubbladin.... Guess where he uses it normally.
I really have to fight with my senses, how uneducated some are, that they can't see, that their 15 mins trolling in PVP cuts the wooden bridge under themselves. 15 mins of "fun" once or twice and in a month the guy won't find anybody in PVP, because of lack of population.
I could answer my question, but won't do it of course and all you here complaining, you too could also, is humanity now so dumb, they can't see the obvious?
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Devs, I think this is pretty telling. I mean seriously, the vast majority of players hate these drains. I'm going to writ another post with some possible adjustment suggestions if you won't consider removing them altogether. I hope this catches your attention though, and is on your "radar".
Thanks for your time.
Everyone hated that sort of idea in Neverwinter Classic for warzone specific areas, and I think that holds true here too.
PS. I just clicked one of the options for voting. Oops. I need pay better attention, or have more coffee. One of the two.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Yes, as a HR I choose to use rank 2 drains in all pvp, but only choose to use the Pokémon rings in strong hold pvp. Believe me it doesn't help that much!
The "pokemon" rings, I assume you mean ambush rings. If you think they don't help much then I don't know what to tell you. Between ambush rings and AP drains HR's are like invisible and unkillable and they will lock you down till you die.
So either:
1) you don't know your class well
2) You're trying to disguise how insanely OP these drains are on HRs or
3) You're trolling.
Honestly I don't care which as each elicits the same response. LOL
My stamina is zero being drained by rank 2, not moving 1 mm even using rank 1 wards, since cryptic forgot (as they allways do) to implement anything like a Cooldown.
I can walk like a snail and my shiftmechanic normally adding a 30% DR and cc immunity is not working any more.
A GWF with bravery using battle fury can dance arround me and twohit me with ease by that, redicules.
You obviously are one of these troll-members (two PVP guilds got these enchants for know?) using drains constantly,
no skill player for sure, I only can laugh about the stupidity destroying your own battelfield, few month and all you can do is play with your epeen on the node, have fun
PVP guilds these days must be really, really desperate, taking every 3k+ up to BIS nub without anything like skill or behaviour
There are 2 drains and 2 wards (Stamina and AP), so when you slot one you are always taking a risk. If you slot 2 drains, you are vulnerable to drains yourself. Slot 2 wards, and you are immune to drains. The theory is good ... where cryptic failed horribly here was by not making them available equally to everyone. Worse yet, they made them in 2 ranks, just so the high ranking guilds always had an advantage over low ranking ones.
So, good in theory, bad in implementation.
<<Edit - It's also worth pointing out that polls like this are totally pointless. Drains are not likely to go away given that a considerable amount of time, effort and (most importantly) Zen has gone into building up guild halls so people have rank 1 or 2 drains.>>
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Secondarily you go on to state that polls, like the one you just voted and posted on, are totally pointless... Yet you decided it was worth your time. You see the reason we post these things is that feedback may not immediately give us gratification in the form of deletion of drains but it does have the potential to get noticed and factored in to future decisions, or changes to the drains actions and/or availability.
The forums aren't always going to give us what we want from the devs, but at least with honest open feedback we can try to give them player perspective and try to help positively influence the game we enjoy.
Thanks for your time.
Linking the overloads to the Stronghold though changes this considerably - now it's put in the best drains you have and let those with a lesser stronghold suffer. Drains now are an advantage to those guilds who have a rank 8 market (and to a lesser extent those with a rank 8 one).
I also realize the forums are handy feedback for the devs, which is why I DID post here. I'm not expecting changes though .. and given their recent track record I am not even sure I'm expecting them to consider the balance implications next time the opportunity to make a few dollars comes their way .... in fact, I am willing to bet that the next mod will bring us some very expensive and very OP "must have" mounts that further destroy what little balance we have left. But yes, I did post, and I do hope they are reading. I'm just not optimistic at all.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Thanks for your reply.