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The curious concept of Great Weapon Fighter tanking.
prometheusen
Member Posts: 63 Arc User
The beaten path never appealed to me in any area of life. I like to try things differently... if everyone is going offense, I'd like to see if I can make defense work. It's a different kind of entertainment...
The first character I ever created in Neverwinter was a Great Weapon Fighter, back during the launch. I still have that character today and he has gone through many iterations. Recently, I decided to REALLY try tanking. So I examined the most reasonable feats to select, which powers would best serve this cause, and what kind of attributes I should prioritize... To add some real flavor to this challenge, I also decided that I wanted my original avatar to still be PvP competent.
Well, long story short; it kinda worked... barely. Well, OK, that might be a little too optimistic...
On paper, it looks like a Great Weapon Fighter could tank; but the truth is, they really can't. Nothing remotely close to what a Guardian Fighter or Oathbound Paladin can. Here are some observations as to why it falls short (maybe this is also a health warning to other players that may consider the path of the tank GWF... be warned, it's unpleasant).
1. Aggro Maintenance - so this is actually a compound problem with #2 but I'll start by saying that even with a total investment in every feat there is for generating threat, the GWF can't seem to pull this off reliably. Is it because the Trickster Rogues and Control Wizards are simply generating too much damage that vetoes the threat of the GWF? Maybe... but I suspect it has a lot more to do with #2...
2. Controlled Crisis - the GWF is so easy to control until they activate Unstoppable.... Pushed, knocked down, stunned, slowed, you name it, the GWF is going to experience it... a lot. In comparison to the Guardian Fighter/Oathbound Paladin, it looks like GWFs spend as much time on the floor or standing stupefied as they do fighting. This also produces another problem in terms of survivability for the doleful tank-poser.
3. Shieldless, Dodgeless - Well, when you're surrounded by 10 monsters and the team is relying on you to make sure that you take the hits mostly in their place, you get to do that... for about 2 seconds. The lovely SHIFT key that is the guardian angel for Trickster Rogues, Control Wizards, Guardian Fighters, etc. Doesn't do HAMSTER for a GWF in a tanking capacity (actually I really don't think it does much for them in any capacity).
4. Semi-Thick Skin, Soft Paws - Given the devotion placed to the Sentinel feat tree, there isn't much room for a promise of damage. Going this route makes the GWF hit more than a Devoted Cleric; but that's about it... Oh and a lot less useful than a Devoted Cleric, heh.
Now, this is just a few notes... Despite all of this, when Unstoppable is active, for that 5 or so seconds, yes, it seems like maybe the GWF can tank after all... But it's quite infrequent and in order to generate as much Determination as possible, this limits room for useful encounter powers. Perhaps the Sentinel tree should be more about frequent or lengthier Unstoppable episodes; because it's worth mentioning again, when in Unstoppable, it addresses pretty much all 4 of those points in some way.
The first character I ever created in Neverwinter was a Great Weapon Fighter, back during the launch. I still have that character today and he has gone through many iterations. Recently, I decided to REALLY try tanking. So I examined the most reasonable feats to select, which powers would best serve this cause, and what kind of attributes I should prioritize... To add some real flavor to this challenge, I also decided that I wanted my original avatar to still be PvP competent.
Well, long story short; it kinda worked... barely. Well, OK, that might be a little too optimistic...
On paper, it looks like a Great Weapon Fighter could tank; but the truth is, they really can't. Nothing remotely close to what a Guardian Fighter or Oathbound Paladin can. Here are some observations as to why it falls short (maybe this is also a health warning to other players that may consider the path of the tank GWF... be warned, it's unpleasant).
1. Aggro Maintenance - so this is actually a compound problem with #2 but I'll start by saying that even with a total investment in every feat there is for generating threat, the GWF can't seem to pull this off reliably. Is it because the Trickster Rogues and Control Wizards are simply generating too much damage that vetoes the threat of the GWF? Maybe... but I suspect it has a lot more to do with #2...
2. Controlled Crisis - the GWF is so easy to control until they activate Unstoppable.... Pushed, knocked down, stunned, slowed, you name it, the GWF is going to experience it... a lot. In comparison to the Guardian Fighter/Oathbound Paladin, it looks like GWFs spend as much time on the floor or standing stupefied as they do fighting. This also produces another problem in terms of survivability for the doleful tank-poser.
3. Shieldless, Dodgeless - Well, when you're surrounded by 10 monsters and the team is relying on you to make sure that you take the hits mostly in their place, you get to do that... for about 2 seconds. The lovely SHIFT key that is the guardian angel for Trickster Rogues, Control Wizards, Guardian Fighters, etc. Doesn't do HAMSTER for a GWF in a tanking capacity (actually I really don't think it does much for them in any capacity).
4. Semi-Thick Skin, Soft Paws - Given the devotion placed to the Sentinel feat tree, there isn't much room for a promise of damage. Going this route makes the GWF hit more than a Devoted Cleric; but that's about it... Oh and a lot less useful than a Devoted Cleric, heh.
Now, this is just a few notes... Despite all of this, when Unstoppable is active, for that 5 or so seconds, yes, it seems like maybe the GWF can tank after all... But it's quite infrequent and in order to generate as much Determination as possible, this limits room for useful encounter powers. Perhaps the Sentinel tree should be more about frequent or lengthier Unstoppable episodes; because it's worth mentioning again, when in Unstoppable, it addresses pretty much all 4 of those points in some way.
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Comments
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
The way i see it, dungeons should be designed after class balance so that a Sentinel GWF+CC class (CW or trapper) can do the protection job of a tank while providing the some DPS, as an alternative to a tank+full DPS combo.
A sentinel should get a boost and work when mixed with a controller, with off-tanking and, for example, some damage reduction on the mobs he hits in AoE (buff wicked strike debuff through sentinel advanced feats).
Can also give reaping strike a "pull" effect+ increased determination gain through sentinel tree.
But with the release of mod 6 they ruined so much that almost every class has been reduced to 1 feat tree type of build with some minor variations. Pre mod 6, a well built GWF could tank and even solo Castle Never. Now you gotta dump a lot of money into GWF to do that. But as a GWF player, I see no reason for a GWF to need to tank, we have 2 tank classes now, do we really need 3?
I really wish cryptic would take a break from pumping out these damn grind fest campaigns and just really work at making finally fixing feats and balancing the classes. I miss being able to play my HR as a pure archer.
It is an offtank character of course it can hold bosses. It gives no survivability to party yes. But there are other classes for that.
Hint: with daring shout it can pull bosses from main tanks.
I had to roll a GWF in mod2 because despite their boosting no GWF in my guild and my surrounding could give a acceptable kiting to Draco in CN and died 20 secs before it...