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PvE Scoundrel
treetrunkofunk
Member Posts: 6 Arc User
Hey guys, 4 months or so into this game and have finally settled on a TR as my main. I levelled as an MI scoundrel and really enjoy how it has played so far using Sly Flourish/Cloud of Steel, Dazing Strike/Smoke Bomb and either Lashing Blade of Path of Blades, Lurkers/Whirlwind of Blades.
My question is, is this sort of build viable in epic dungeons or am I just gimping the group? Can't seem to find much info on the Scoundrel path in pve on the forums and mmominds dates back a couple of years.
Any guidance/links to builds would be greatly appreciated.
TIA.
My question is, is this sort of build viable in epic dungeons or am I just gimping the group? Can't seem to find much info on the Scoundrel path in pve on the forums and mmominds dates back a couple of years.
Any guidance/links to builds would be greatly appreciated.
TIA.
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no its not a high dps (executioner), no its not a perma stealth build (saboteur), but man its just fun.
i recently respced my tr to pure pve mi scoundrel and with certain feats, dailies, an boons im able to:
A. maintain constant combat advantage = 2xdmg
B. insane power buff during fights . my peek was today with freaking 62k power! (and im not using the new brutality rings, so if i did power would probably reach 70k or even higher)
you might not be the high pain-giver but you almost always will be the one picking up the high dps glass canons dropping like flies at hard fights and sometimes even be the only one left in the fight and have to finish the job.
so if you can leave your ego (like my other trs have) and just have fun with this wonderful class go scoundrel.
tr cooldown are high so you aint a controller
tr scoundrel dps is rather low
0 selfhealing
i can understand the ones playing a good wk scoundrel in pvp, that s the only thing in game resembling skill
there are just better paths for pve, ofc you are free to pursue your scoundrel idea.
■ The easy-peasy carebear/milkrun/cakewalk difficulty of PvE, and as a result, support/CC considered obsolete
■ Frequency of CC-immune mobs
In case of sabos, they receive damage buffs via methods that maintain stealth for prolonged durations -- which also means use of the autocrit + CA, hence they don't have much direct damage buffs. Generally execs are considered best for PvE and the combination of Deathknell+Lastmoments is a great duo of conditional-passive damage.
However, scoundrels aren't too shabby either so long as the CC can be maintained, which means its actually optimized for teamplay synergies. If by luck, a PvE-tweaked scoundrel is teamed with either (a) a CC-focused CW, or (b) a Trapper HR, then you can easily notice the scoundrel damage starting to go through the roof. If there's a real permacontroller within the team, then that's by itself a permanent +25% damage buff through Lowblows that doesn't require any other conditions to fire off. When you do a 26/15 stat distribution to scoundrel/exec, then you can get upto Deathknell in the exec tree.
So if you think about it, the most powerful combinations of damage buffs an exec will dish out will be a combination of DK+LM. When the target is under 70% HP the exec will occasionally get 25% damage buffs depending on its rate of restealthing, and if makes extensive use of Lurker's Assault another +25% from Back Alley Tactics. When the target is under 40% HP then LM fires off all the time, so it's a constant +25% buff, which is occasionally beefed up with Lurker's +25%, but the threshold of the damage doesn't change. It's still +50% (LM+LA). When the target falls below 30%, then from that point DK kicks in as well, so a total +75% damage buff from that point on (LM+DK+LA).
In comparison, if there's a constant source of CC in the party, then the scoundrel gets a constant +25% from Lowblows right off the bat. Skullcracker gets the full 6 second benefit in PvE, so SC can be maintained 40% of the time in PvE -- meaning, another 25% damage buff, so from the very start of the fight a scoundrel get's 25% damage boost 60% of the time, and a +50% boost 40% of the time. With the use of BAT, another +25% is added, so the scoundrel gets a damage buff that fluctuates between 25%~75% from the start and maintains that throughout the fight. When the target comes under 30% HP, DK from the exec tree will add another +25% as a constant, so the fluctuation becomes 50% ~ 100%.
So in theory, the scoundrel actually starts off with a much higher damage buff than the exec and maintains that all throghout the fight, and then the exec starts catching up in regards to overall damage dealt, as the target comes lower in HP.
....
The problem is, nobody plays a support/CC class in PvE. Empirically speaking, support/CCs and team-synergy fighting is most efficient when the enemies are powerful -- thus, requiring more than just "heals, deals and meatshields" to fight effectively. However, NW PvE is 'casual'. The most efficient way of fighting in this milkrun/cakewalk PvE is to just bombard the whole area with DPS classes, so there's no merit in building a CC-focused CWs or Trappers in PvE.
Besides, most minibosses and bosses are CC-immune from the start. There's no support mechanic for the scoundrels in this aspect, and thus, sunce the targe'ts perma CC-immune, the scoundrel is perma useless. Most minion groups are just mass-eradicated within like 20 seconds with all the firepower the CWs or GWFs are dishing out. Mini-boss/Boss fights are the ones that take up a significant timespan, and throught this entire ordeal, scoundrel's are defanged.
TL;DR/ Two bulletpoint summary:
1. Theoretically, scoundrels have the capacity to deal just as much -- or even more -- damage in PvE, when compared with other TR builds, because it optimizes much better with cross-class synergies than other two paths.
2. Unfortunately, NW PvE is screwed up easymode, so nobody needs those synergies in the first place. Also, NW systematically screws the scoundrels with "permanent CC-immune bosses".
3. Conclusion: so long as the current PvE style is maintained, no, PvE scoundrel builds are very inefficient.
(ps) Try doing LoL with a scoundrel. From the beginning, the entire map is infested with golems. Then the miniboss scorpions also don't give a chit about CCs, and then the big, bad, CC-immune dragon.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I just hit 3k iL with Atwil and my build is starting to really kick HAMSTER. I can take on 5 opposing players in GG and kill 2 or 3.
T2 is where I really shine. I have raised my damage 25 million, on average, in the t2 runs where I am involved. To say that a Scoundrel is handicapped regarding DPS is laughable. I can challenge MI Exec's with my Wk Scoundrel build, on the Paingiver spectrum. It is all about knowing the rotations that work and using them. My last eToS run netted me a cool 100 million damage, which had me at #1 on Paingiver and Executioner... by 37 million. The rest of the party was a couple of Legit members(OP and CW) and a couple of guildies, DC and TR.
Not being able to CC due to CDs... lol. My recovery is at 18% and I can rinse and repeat every 6 to 8 seconds. Throw a Lurker's Assault in there and I recover faster... as does my stealth. I am talking every 3 to 4 seconds. It is about knowing what to use and when to use it.
I just ran an eLoL with guildies and I was #1 in Executioner and #2 in Field Medic. The number 1 spot were taken by Tabatha... who may be one of the most dominating PvE SWs in the game. With the Paingiver I was 3rd by a hair due to my dying during Lostmauth, halfway through. STUPID Epic Lair of Lag.
I will share my build with people who request it... and promise not to share. Also, I ask that they fine tune it to their style of play. My build is about the feats, powers, boons, enchants and rotations... and the relationships they have with each other.
The ONLY DD I refuse to run, besides eCC for obvious reasons, is eGWD. Why would that be? I am handicapped in there due to the CC Immune mobs. I do very well in there, and have run it and finished with a strong and experienced group... but it is a choice I made. I do VERY well in the new content with my build.
As kweassa has stated before... the best Scoundrel combo will have to be the Wk due to the synergy.
I recently added the Shadow Demon... and upgraded him to Legendary... to boost my Deflection and the results from the Deflection severity.
BTW... the boss fights are not always about fighting the boss. I delivered over 50 million damage in the Syndryth fight alone also killing a minimum of 30 adds that spawned, as a side-effect of my rotation. In t1's it is... but t2's it is about the boss and adds. I can stop casts by demons, casters, spiders and undead and keep that stun going for the entire fight. That has allowed me to be the guy who saves the party from a wipe... or saves me so I can res them.
The belief that the Scoundrel is inefficient in PvE, is a myth, and I am more than willing and capable to bust that myth.
Chestnut... never inadequate... just different. LOL
STR and DEX. Currently mine is 22 and 27
I don't doubt his Scoundrel performs just in the way he says it does, nor do I doubt its pretty darn competitive and impressive. In the end, the problem is systematic -- ie. my own Scoundrel has always been a genuine low-power, low-DPS, utility/survival geared build that requires technical approach and a lot of active decision making to make it work. This is fun for me, and in many cases not too shabby a contendor against other TR builds in terms of PvP.
However, systematically speaking it's more akin to a "self-gimping" for the purpose of different and more active approach to combat -- one that requires you to make moves and countermoves to how the opponent reacts, instead of just passively throwing knives from invisibility with one hand while picking your nose with the other and still winning the fight by waiting out until the AP charges up every 30secs to spam SE. This Sabo way of fighting in PvP is lame as h3ll and allows players to yields results way above their current skill level -- but inevitably, this also means that systematically speaking, the build is superiorly efficient in terms of combat, as in "superior enough to allow even nubs to achieve good results just by following the exact recipe for success." That's "systematic."
Hence, in terms of how the system is set up there are certain limitation to the Scoundrel. It's just not PvE-friendly, and the effort it takes to offset that problem is not easy.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I am not going to lie... this build takes a lot of customization and fine-tuning... but I cannot deny how well it works.
In the last 2x RP events I have been able to collect enough RP to increase my stats and iL to levels that make me much more productive than before.
TBH... one of the reasons I am not willing to share this with everyone is due to the simplicity of the rotation and my desires to keep this from becoming a "cookie-cutter build".
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I was even recently told by a player who has criticized my abilities in PvP.... despite never being opposed to me... that my build was scary effective. They could not even tell what powers I was using due to all of the stuns I slapped on them. Right now my TR is 3.5k...
i mean ok you are happy about your tr but "same damage during a boss fight of a equally geared GWF" with a scoundrel tr wearing a perfect lightning is a bit hard to believe
There are dynamics to my build that allow me to do more than just my own damage... and when I am attacking one I am almost always hitting more than one.
I am shocked Rayrdan that you know so much about my gear. First knowing about my pet 2 days after I got him and now my weapon enchant.
I'm definitly not a skilled player, but i like learning and try new things.
For Exes or Sabos, though? I'd wager Vorpal is still king for them. Stealthed DF spam with a Vorpal and Lostmauth is just plain nuts, and I can't imagine any other enchant will compete with that.
It offers you additional 15% movement speed which let the Scoundrel feels great in combat. You stun enemies for critical hits, get additional damage for stunned enemies and you should get the perk where you get +25% additional Damage for depleted Action Points which mean your daily hit's really powerfull (great combination with lurker assault).
And like the other player wrote, it is viable.
The only thing i consider not viable is to roll a wisperknife. I can't still figure out what is the good thing in this path (seriously the DPS of a wisperknife is always inferior as an MI, i never saw actually a good wisperknife in PvE doing great damage). Maybe they are good at PvP, but even there it is not that great in my opinion.