test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

GWFs, now spec'ed into marathon runner tree

13

Comments

  • dufistodufisto Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    pando83 said:


    OPaladins can be strong even without them.
    TRs can use Vorpal and SF and the MI/Sabo build can still perform well.
    DC can wear elven battle and another random enchant and still tank very well and be strong.
    They will be at a disadvantage vs users of overperforming enchants, but the class itself would still work outside T.Fey-T.Neg.

    Give a GWF a Soulforged and another enchant and the impact will be much bigger. Cause GWF strenght comes mainly from very specific interaction between class design and these enchants. Same as eLoL set performing at a much higher level on GWF then, for example, on SW or CW.

    It really seems to me that you guys have no in-depth knowledge of the mechanics behind some in-game results.
    Now, i'm not an expert and behind some more knowledgeable BiS players who test things more. But at least i know the stuff i explained above in the other post too.

    1st none of those as strikers according to you. you also left 4 classes off the list.
    ops acknowledge the brokenness of the class. we've been trying to steer the incoming nerfs so the class isnt destroyed like they usually do when they swing the nerf bat.
    trs can use vorpal. but guess what so can gwfs and still perform. tfey is not required. it just the most powerfull in pvp for every class. trs also go with soulforged because they cant dump 50k temp hp with unstoppable.
    dcs well i dont have an answer to that. faithful build is built to heals. but thats ok its just like destroyer. you take it if you want to win. i mean thats what im hearing from all gwfs.

    and no where did i say the only thing to do was nerf dmg. survivability should be increased. after all they are supposed to be a striker/defender class according to the description.

    you mean those experts that are saying aura of courage being applied 3x stronger on a gfw vs another has nothing to do with gwf mechanics. yeah keep listening to those experts. you'll learn alot about denial.

    so if the problem is base damage then buffing that but removing some of the self buffs will still keep you performing but bring your proc dmg in line with other classes. see how easy that is.
    its simple if one build consistently outperforms other builds adjustments need to be made. and lets face it. if you arent speced destroyer you're gimping yourself. justice palis have seen it coming. faithful dcs have seen it coming. and destroyer gwfs are burying their head in the sand.

    "we type/write wall of texts with real data, videos and other stuff yet most of players just ignore them because "i saw a 12k damage from Sure Strike!" or stuff like that..."

    12k damage.... try 300+k sure strikes and lostmauth hits. and ibs's for over 1M. again deflect and denial. and to be perfectly honest if those were rare things i wouldnt care.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    TR can use vorpal.
    GWF can use vorpal the same you say. Wrong.
    GWF must build up 10 stacks in 4 to 8 seconds, Plaguefire allows them to get 3 stacks per hit, T.Fey and others give them 2 stacks per hit, Vorpal 1 stack per hit=hit a dodging enemy 10 times in 4 or 8 seconds, good luck with that. In fact, Vorpal GWFs in PvP need at least 2x unstoppables to reach full buffs, which usually is not a good thing. Just FYI.
    TR can get vorpal and hit harder with no real downsides, depending on the spec.

    What i've been repeating over and over is exactly what you wrote about base damage and buffs. You write it now. But reading back in this and other threads all you would find is "damage too high, GWFs rule over everyone, GWFs are spoiled, GWFs damage is so overpowered, too much self buffs, must decrease".

    I never once before this post of yours, have read any complainer say "GWFs should have self-buffs reduced and DPS normalized increasing base damage.
    Not.
    Even.
    Once.
    And the message that gets to the devs who read is that they must tone down GWFs self-buffs, period.
    And you know, our smart devs are not that good at guessing that you are instead implying that along with nerfs they should also make localized buffs.
    In fact, module 3 was the same with complaints about every aspect of GWFs. And the devs nerfed every aspect of the GWFs, indeed. Every. Single. Aspect. Damge. DR from unstoppable. Determination gain. CC. Not one thing left out. While buffing the other classes.
    So balance discussions must be complete. If they are written in the form of a biased complaint, the message that gets through is not

    so if the problem is base damage then buffing that but removing some of the self buffs will still keep you performing but bring your proc dmg in line with other classes. see how easy that is.
    but rather "hey devs, GWF self buffs are too much, please nerf".

  • edited November 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    Also:
    So what people are frutrated about GWFs, isn't just about the sprint. It's more about the general feel of 'smugness' or 'cockiness' feeling people get when they meet one of them GWFs in combat.
    playing multiple classes: that "sense of smigness and cockiness" is caused by the fact that GWFs have been reworked to attackattackattack, having stacks to keep up and survivability linked to damage buffs and determination built mainly from damage dealt in destro path. And guess why the devs reworked the class like this
    ...
    ...
    ...
    cause during module 3 players complained that GWF was "too passive", getting free survivability "passively", and "skill-less".
    So the devs made it more proactive. Which means that you take damage, defend through sprint, go unstoppable, chase the enemy to build 10 stacks in 4-8 seconds, keep stacks up, build more stacks, put them together, attack (and succeed) when they are all up, go unstoppable again for more temp HP from damage buffs and so on.
    And now that they are more proactive and must work for their stacks, which is also linked to their survivability...they are cocky and this is bad.

    Bad, bad GWFs always pressuring the enemy. You should pressure a bit, then wait a bit for your stacks to go down, and then restart from scratches while the enemy melts you. Don't be "cocky".

    GFs are not cocky because they alternate attack and shield defense. But they one rotate you for free without the need to build stacks. But that's ok.
    GWF, instead, is cocky and evil.

  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    But rogue MI sabateur SE first strike 1shot and invincible ITC with 0 cooldown super recovery build, GF two shot rotation, and OP perma bubble are not issues. Seriously nerf GWFs cuz I get rolled in pugs by BIS toons. Fact is other classes have much bigger imbalance issues in PVP than GWF. Warlocks for example sorely need survivability buffs in pvp. GWFs are lower on the totem pole when it comes to issues. But seriously keep complaining. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
    image
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    It is more or less irrelevant if one class roules all time or two hits other classes, and in case of warlock vs GWF it happens often, same with SE from TR or with anvil+bullcharge combo from GF.....Dead in most cases
    But noone cares about these problems
    Devs will judge about classes by comparing them in PVE, so who do you think will get a tone down in time?
    Remember what I said....its gonna happen
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    pando83 said:


    GFs are not cocky because they alternate attack and shield defense. But they one rotate you for free without the need to build stacks. But that's ok.
    .


    Just to mention a simple thing cause i see it repeatedly written again and again:Gfs have their damage with out stacks.
    Wrong Conq capstone needs five stacks.Combat superiority needs to be hit.And Shied's wrath requires 4.

  • This content has been removed.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited December 2015



    Just to mention a simple thing cause i see it repeatedly written again and again:Gfs have their damage with out stacks.
    Wrong Conq capstone needs five stacks.Combat superiority needs to be hit.And Shied's wrath requires 4.

    Take a DPS PvP GWF and a DPS PvP GF. Make them rotate an enemy right off the bat. Burst at start of a fight.
    Which one can almost one-rotate the enemy?

    That is something described by "BiS" players. DPS GF in PvP have monster burst when properly built.
    GWF have monster burst too but need much more work to reach it.
    And in a GF vs GWF scenario 1v1, GF is ahead.
    2v2 or more GWF gets more benefit from lifesteal (hits more) and GF "weakness" (being hit from behind) gain more weight.

    Now, if you nerf GWF damage flat only, with no rebalance, you reduce its lifesteal and unstoppable frequency at the same time.
    Which means that where right now it's situational (GF upper hand 1v1, GWF upper hand in a group fight), what you'd have in the end would be an overnerf.

    So if players want really GWF stacked full damage reduced, they must also increase the base damage and ability of the GWF to inflict non-buffed damage. So you reduce the maximum DPS capability, but increase the starting point which, right now, is too low (basically a no-stacks GWF has the weaker base damage of all classes).
    You can keep the class that weaker "as a base", and nerf its buffed status only. Cause then all other classes would have a "max damage" much closer to that of a fully buffed GWF, but reached much faster and with a starting burst still much higher.

    Would NOT be balanced.

    Expecially considering how Sprint DR does HAMSTER to mitigate incoming damage with current levels of ArP and piercing damage.

  • godsblade#8271 godsblade Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Read all the thread, very interesting read I must say. What did I get out of the reading you ask?

    GWF is subpar unless geared and enchanted properly then becomes the beast they are supposed to be..

    PS: Sounds like a nice reward for all the hard work an humiliation they will take to get to such levels.

    Rolen
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I've been reading this thread and am astounded.

    1. As a monster GWF, I am frequently tracking down stealth TRs with my "powers" and one-shotting them with my "piercing" battlehammer. Luckily they seem unable to execute me with SE. /sarcasm

    2. As a monster GWF, I never have wasted 3-4 minutes clobbering on a Bubble-Pal only to find that I've wasted my time and all the other nodes are being capped. /sarcasm

    3. Due to my "anonymity powers" I am never targeted first by multiple mobs. I slide though easily killing all in my wake and sprint away /sarcasm

    4. Since I have an "auto-targeting & piercing" Battlehammer, I never find myself smacking the ground a bunch of times from where another player just dodged. Dodge is highly overrated. /sarcasm

    5. I especially like to throw this "auto-targeting & piercing Battlehammer" at HR's and CW's from a distance. Because I'm at a distance they have to work much harder to attack me. Too bad they can never do damage to me since they have to pay so much attention on targeting their powers... /sarcasm
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    We all know it already but lets repeat it again.. Gwf damage is somehow bugged

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=m110z02NFhM
  • xgrandz02xgrandz02 Member Posts: 702 Arc User
    russian server,

    All what i know is "SE" is somehow bugged löl
    gwf damage is not a big deal if u have enough defence/tenacity,





    <::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
  • edited December 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    clonkyo1 said:

    rayrdan said:

    We all know it already but lets repeat it again.. Gwf damage is somehow bugged



    www.youtube.com/watch?v=m110z02NFhM

    If you want, we can make bids on that: i bid that, thanks to potions and other stuff (i will not reveal it because it pretty obvious for non pugs players); that GWF has around 35k on power. (will not add "racial damage bonusses", in example)

    EDIT: With this, i want to say that, a GWF needs to get 35k power rate to deal that damage, which is aviable for almost all classes. ( i will not even take into account the "0 DR from dummies" math) . If dont belive me, you just can ask that TR to "inspect" that GWF while doing the same thing on PvP training ground.


    EDIT 2: Your post is exactly what i meant when i said "problem is, that players only see '12k damage from Sure Strike!!!!! NERF OMFG!!!!!!11111oneoneone' " .
    are you serious? available for all classes ... just lol
    dagger crit with >3 mio damage, sure strike up to 1 mio damage, IBS 3mio + or how do I have to interpret that numbers, no group buffs
    daily 1,6 mio damage
    but look at 0:48 what happens there? He starts swinging with 4 mio crits.....its good that way and obtainable for all classes, muahahaha
    sure if I do not want to see "the obvious" I can try to negate thing
    I run enough edemo to say, nope its not obtainalbe for all classes, GWF at 4k GS : rest = 3:1 or 4:1 damagewise
    its the scaling of the class that just is out of order
    the only reason why it is like that is: cryptic is too slow and phlegmatic to fix things in time
    so it will get addressed in time (cryptic time) ... until than enjoy free overbuff

    btw you can see his buffs, not even campfire active for 60% of the vid, 3 potions you can get from AH for cheap only buffing him moderalty, thats it
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

    clonkyo1 said:

    rayrdan said:

    We all know it already but lets repeat it again.. Gwf damage is somehow bugged



    www.youtube.com/watch?v=m110z02NFhM

    If you want, we can make bids on that: i bid that, thanks to potions and other stuff (i will not reveal it because it pretty obvious for non pugs players); that GWF has around 35k on power. (will not add "racial damage bonusses", in example)

    EDIT: With this, i want to say that, a GWF needs to get 35k power rate to deal that damage, which is aviable for almost all classes. ( i will not even take into account the "0 DR from dummies" math) . If dont belive me, you just can ask that TR to "inspect" that GWF while doing the same thing on PvP training ground.


    EDIT 2: Your post is exactly what i meant when i said "problem is, that players only see '12k damage from Sure Strike!!!!! NERF OMFG!!!!!!11111oneoneone' " .
    are you serious? available for all classes ... just lol
    dagger crit with >3 mio damage, sure strike up to 1 mio damage, IBS 3mio + or how do I have to interpret that numbers, no group buffs
    daily 1,6 mio damage
    but look at 0:48 what happens there? He starts swinging with 4 mio crits.....its good that way and obtainable for all classes, muahahaha
    sure if I do not want to see "the obvious" I can try to negate thing
    I run enough edemo to say, nope its not obtainalbe for all classes, GWF at 4k GS : rest = 3:1 or 4:1 damagewise
    its the scaling of the class that just is out of order
    the only reason why it is like that is: cryptic is too slow and phlegmatic to fix things in time
    so it will get addressed in time (cryptic time) ... until than enjoy free overbuff

    btw you can see his buffs, not even campfire active for 60% of the vid, 3 potions you can get from AH for cheap only buffing him moderalty, thats it
    i know right?
    We are at the point where 12Milions sure strike hits are legit because dummies have no dr.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    rayrdan said:

    clonkyo1 said:

    rayrdan said:

    We all know it already but lets repeat it again.. Gwf damage is somehow bugged



    www.youtube.com/watch?v=m110z02NFhM

    If you want, we can make bids on that: i bid that, thanks to potions and other stuff (i will not reveal it because it pretty obvious for non pugs players); that GWF has around 35k on power. (will not add "racial damage bonusses", in example)

    EDIT: With this, i want to say that, a GWF needs to get 35k power rate to deal that damage, which is aviable for almost all classes. ( i will not even take into account the "0 DR from dummies" math) . If dont belive me, you just can ask that TR to "inspect" that GWF while doing the same thing on PvP training ground.


    EDIT 2: Your post is exactly what i meant when i said "problem is, that players only see '12k damage from Sure Strike!!!!! NERF OMFG!!!!!!11111oneoneone' " .
    are you serious? available for all classes ... just lol
    dagger crit with >3 mio damage, sure strike up to 1 mio damage, IBS 3mio + or how do I have to interpret that numbers, no group buffs
    daily 1,6 mio damage
    but look at 0:48 what happens there? He starts swinging with 4 mio crits.....its good that way and obtainable for all classes, muahahaha
    sure if I do not want to see "the obvious" I can try to negate thing
    I run enough edemo to say, nope its not obtainalbe for all classes, GWF at 4k GS : rest = 3:1 or 4:1 damagewise
    its the scaling of the class that just is out of order
    the only reason why it is like that is: cryptic is too slow and phlegmatic to fix things in time
    so it will get addressed in time (cryptic time) ... until than enjoy free overbuff

    btw you can see his buffs, not even campfire active for 60% of the vid, 3 potions you can get from AH for cheap only buffing him moderalty, thats it
    i know right?
    We are at the point where 12Milions sure strike hits are legit because dummies have no dr.
    tbh I do not care about the brokeness of classes, this game is flooded with stuff like that
    I do care about strange post that try to discuss such thing in a positiv way and negate reality

    I play a warlock, my posts about the class are allways the same, allways
    I do not talk about obviously broken thing to be legit, puppet in T1+ T2 dungeons and Tyrannical thread are broken point
    I allways wonder about ppl in forum, facts are facts
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    rayrdan said:



    i know right?
    We are at the point where 12Milions sure strike hits are legit because dummies have no dr.

    You know, the problem is not if someone sees that damage as "legit".
    The problem is you guys keep spamming nerf posts with, for example, random numbers with no info on stats/ build/ gear of the guy which could, for example, give some hint about what is the source and why those numbers pop.
    Your posts basically read as "look at what i saw!! Nerf that!!".
    You usually laugh at players doing similar posts on your class.

    So you know, the issue is that you guys are stuck screaming for a damage nerf with ZERO attempts to DISCUSS the class overall and find a way to balance it. You just randomly post some numbers you "saw" like an average PUG and ask for a nerf (generic).
    I tried discussing possible changes and fixes, and sharing some insight.
    Nothing.
    The answer is: a random video posted of a random guy on russian server, with no datas, and some more cry for a nerf.

    Plus i expect you putting the same effort in discussing HR permaroot, GF PvP super-burst, Healers in PvP, TR shocking execution/ courage breaker on GWFs/SWs and so on.
    Some random video and nerf request spamming for that too, thanks.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited December 2015


    tbh I do not care about the brokeness of classes, this game is flooded with stuff like that
    I do care about strange post that try to discuss such thing in a positiv way and negate reality

    I play a warlock, my posts about the class are allways the same, allways
    I do not talk about obviously broken thing to be legit, puppet in T1+ T2 dungeons and Tyrannical thread are broken point
    I allways wonder about ppl in forum, facts are facts

    You know, i posted the same stuff explaining how to "normalize" the class, and the result is rayrdan posting a random video of a random russian guy and basically screaming for a huge nerf to GWF damage PERIOD.

    So the chance to discuss possible changes has been given.
    But some players just ignored it and kept screaming "neeerfffff" with both hands on their ears.
    So before complaining about clonkyo posts, you might perhaps start discussing REAL BALANCE instead of just screaming for some genereic, uninformed nerf.

    Just sayin'
    I've wasted enough time trying to discuss the issue, when you guys are not really interested in balancing a class but just in nerfing it.

    Have fun, i don't care. When these generic nerf complaints will eventually result in another generic overnerf of the class, i'll make sure to flood and channel equally uninformed nerf requests over any broken aspect of any other class without any sign of other needed changes to balance/ normalize the class.

    Have fun.
  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    That is obviously a hakker or glitcher on the Russian server. Laz does not even get near that damage. Not even sure why it was posted here.

    @clonkyo1 @pando83

    i guess the patches are the same, the devs are the same, the class balancing changes are the same, so if its there its probably here too.
    this would somewhat explain why their damage is so out of control.

    its not a nerf request but im sure something is wrong in the stacking mechanism leading gwf to abuse it probably without even know how.

    edit: for example are we sure their stacks have actually a cap and not just a visual cap on their icon?
    this would explain why you can see gwf doing that kind of damage. the tooltip says 10 stacks they probably have way more. i talked to the guy of the video, he said he was there attacking for many minutes with its damage increasing always more.

    and no i dont know any other class spamming 900k sure strike on dummies, 900k (well not that much but you get the point) are not uncommon even in our protector enclave but you are free to name a non gwf-player able to hit for 100k+ at wills (for single strike)

  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

    Kinda curious what bug the guy is using... never seen anyone before hitting that hard. (including BiS players)

    @xsayajinx1 the guy said there is actually no true cap to stacks
  • This content has been removed.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    this vid seems to have a glitch or bug maybe
    but thats not the point, just run eDemo and compare classes, 3k GWF vs 3k any other class
    we know the facts , all of us, so just accept it and do not negate it
  • This content has been removed.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User

    this vid seems to have a glitch or bug maybe
    but thats not the point, just run eDemo and compare classes, 3k GWF vs 3k any other class
    we know the facts , all of us, so just accept it and do not negate it

    im ok with gwf doing more damage than anyone else but right now its too much.
    i was just trying to give an interpretation, im sure something is wrong in the stacking mechanism. The video just shows a confirmation of my theory
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    i only hit 3k sure strike... ( ̄へ ̄)
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Sign In or Register to comment.