so the statement is now fury deals more damage if i substract puppets damage from my overall damage? Sure its that way, what do you expect? and if i just skip the capstone fury will deal more damage....what are we discussing exactly? Fury in an average group like stated from rotters deals more damage than a damnation lock, thats said , right? I said its wrong. Now you want me to do a run without any teammates and on top substract puppets damage from overall damage to state that fury deal more damage? hmm sounds not at all rational imo so next you want me to do is take of my weapon enchant, right if you want to test the both pathes in the way the game is played do it, if you try to create a completely artificial group to come to your prove that fury >damnation we can do that together I am in. Btw running any dungeon with 5 warlocks is menaningless 5xTT at the same time would not tell you anything about damage except who casted first and who moved forward fastes the mobs just do not have enough HP to give answer to that question being burned in 2 seconds
a realistic setup would be 1 OP with permabubble and two warlocks, to check it and get the best answer to that question imo
I run ACT from time to time, even going SH dragons the damage damnation lock deals is not that bad , not having feybeld set (if anyone points in that direction) I do not use a companion with maxed stones, i run augment, even I do not have a pure PVE setup The reason why damnation works fine, even outside dungeons, probabaly a bit worse than fury cant say exactly, is the fact that you can use immolation spirits more effective all time and can gain lots of sparks by that all time,its a win win Sprits deal very proper damage (look up for firy blast) and sparks are more than a fury can gain, if spirit crits 30 sparks are up like in 6 seconds. playing fury and using immolation spirits the uptime is far worse 5sec less and the delay from beginning to start casting is redicules sometimes, spritis standing beside you and looking at the ceiling for 4 seconds, making the hole thing a bit ineffective
Problem with damnation is you need right combination of party buffs to do great. So is it damnation which is really good or right party comp.? To me normal party in pve might be 2 gwf TR, tank and SW. I'd rather play with that group than wait for "right" party buff group.
Sure i could do better damage with damnation and right buffs, but i would rather do constant dps in T1/T2 as a fury.
Don't get me wrong, I just wanted to point out that the dps belongs to the puppet, which makes the build as good as it is. Nobody wants you to play damnation without puppet lol So is it damnation which is really good or right party comp.? I'd say both. Puppet, in its actual state, does pretty decent damage in t2 even without great buffs. I just prefer fury as it's not the kind of "autopilot" style damnation is. And as fury SW I managed to onehit etos first boss with good group, what no other class / build in this game is able to AFAIK. My point is even if the puppet could / would onehit that boss there is nothing for me to be 'proud' of as it's not my work but the work of my pet
The reason why i allways have to disaggree is because its proven to me 100 times running dungeons Probably i allways met the wrong warlocks.
But reading about lots of ppl struggeling with the class I have to allways point out that there are good DPS Options, no matter if cheap and simple, thats what i like
At normal gear level damnation will allways top fury because the capstone can't deal what puppet does Above 3.5 to 4k using maxed out gear with companions like that zen warlock and maxed selfbuffs fury can top damnation (danm my useless DC got one from last year AD promotion.....not my warlock)
Most player are less 3 k GS i guess Thats why I allways say.....go damnation be happy chaep and simple Instead of going fury and feel worthless at that level arround 2-2,5k
Other question , how does a warlock onehit first etos boss? KF? Only deals that damage when lost HP to some level
KF? Only deals that damage when lost HP to some level
Just keep in mind that TT scales with buffs. With the build I use in a proper rotation 1 Soul Scorch does the same amount of damage like KF at 30% HP left but can be spammed 5 times in a row. Now imagine doing a 10k hit (to keep it simple) to a TTed monster. This, with the right group, will be buffed to like 100k (again to keep it simple, most of the time it's even more). Now TT takes 30% of that 100k hit -> 30k. Again buffs scale this up to 300k which is the damage all other targets receive. Let me state out again that the buffs are even higher most of the time. Now make use of this principle that the monster being hit by TT takes massively more damage than the monster taking your first hit: hit an add with much HP like blade master or for the first etos Boss take the blade spider from last group of adds with you, TT both, communicate with your team to make them activate all their buffs at once and hit the add, not the boss. The boss will take the TT damage which is way bigger than the actual damage your soul Scorch hit does. All in all I had a run where these buffs were enough to onehit first etos Boss with one single Soul Scorch -> TT hit. Of course this requires some communication and time to prepare everything, that's why this is no "autopilot"-mode. Remember Kuro, the guy who created the guide I posted? This is his biggest TT hit using the build I presented to you. Also TT is necrotic damage which will activate fury capstone to deal 60% of said damage again.
Thx never thought that much about putting my TT, but right the mobs arround die first in general tbh normally i am too lazy too look out for anyone else to put it except the boss thats why I play damnation and you go fury but again , I can run a dungeon with any setup tabatha choses because i am just interested in comparing both path we already did our run, and you tried damnation last time did you not see the difference, beside the fact that puppet deals the damage?
but thats not my problem we could also discuss about silly selfbuffs from GWF and an at-will like WMS that deals more damage than every encounter warlocks got scaling and balance in this game is a problem since I started this game most classes should scip encounters and feats and dailies that are broken and not to discuss like SE or permabubble or perma daze or OP´s that deal more damage than lots of striker classes dependeing on the tree they chose or Tr´s that run faster than an epic mount warlock is a class that has lots of useless feats encounter and is hard to play in PVP , you can suffer and reject that stuff or accept it btw a companion that gives you 3x95% of his stats by triggering a proc from bonding runestone rank 12 has also be considered being broken and everyone that rejects a puppet should reject an obviously broken selfbuff from a companion the list is endless and I can´t see any arguments to reject one thing and welcome another broken stuff
If/when you test different paths of SW against eachother, I'd strongly suggest NOT being in the same party. A party comp should be agreed upon, with the same players in the party (minus the SWs) in each run that is made.
That way you have consistent data, someone obviously running ACT or something, across the runs and I'd suggest multiple runs and averaging the results.
Is it redundant, and requires more effort than 2x SWs in one run to see who is the best "head to head"? Yes.
However it avoids people not playing the dungeons correctly, for example being the last one to apply TT so it adds to your DPS and not the other SW.
ok thats too much work for me , my work is far enough in rl I gonna play , get a beer and fury wins
to not be misunderstood in any way the reason why I post this stuff is not to be best at anything, I can lose in any circumstances its only to show different ways and from what I heared and saw there are lots of warlocks, esp in the medium to undergeared fraction, also in our guild, who changed to damnation and felt released and enjoyed the game again not beeing at the bottom of paingiver, some points above the tank
ok thats too much work for me , my work is far enough in rl I gonna play , get a beer and fury wins
to not be misunderstood in any way the reason why I post this stuff is not to be best at anything, I can lose in any circumstances its only to show different ways and from what I heared and saw there are lots of warlocks, esp in the medium to undergeared fraction, also in our guild, who changed to damnation and felt released and enjoyed the game again not beeing at the bottom of paingiver, some points above the tank
for medium to undergeared warlocks damnation is obviously a better choice. as the pet is not tied to your ilvl, so super insane bugged pet will put up huge numbers for low geared warlocks. however the pets damage doesnt scale with char progression. once you've got your 31 points invested the pets damage is fairly static ( based on content being run). where as you have a whole lot of room to grow past the 2k ilvl min requirement to get into a t2. the better your gear the lower the pets damage is in relation to yours. and after a while the question becomes is the pet worth it vs buffing my damage significantly.
if the soul puppet were tied directly to the warlocks stats it would be different.
bean counter attacking? noone testet these things only assumptions only personal experiences , thats it Quallo in game feel free to test stuff with me
I stated from mod 5 that SB is superior to HB, most did not want to hear it I state from mod 6 damnation is superior to fury in most cases except PVP and probabaly soling just compared both trees and that is my irrefutable opinion
lots of you use broken stuff like lolset, companions triplebuff and more but everyone wants to discuss the damn puppet , ignoring all that broken s.hit arround
Well i do some heavy testing both dummy and real mobs (with ACT). I use lol set because i do pvp, currently set ain't must for pve content cause it don't proc with all powers. I switched to fury from damnation after i got active companion with perfect bondings. Most of my playtime i've been damnation so i can assure you i know damnation quite well. Fury is better for me and i'm not telling it's better for all as ain't damnation. IMO Higher stats/pvp ->fury, lower stats/pve ->damnation
If you wanna go easy on things without having to gear your char, gain experience or even learn and develop tactics (not saying puppet players can not be experienced players) that fits best to you and your playstyle and just do good dmg regardless the stats and skill -> go puppet. This is totally okay as long as you are not convinced that all your dmg comes from you being a skilled player and knowing what you do (again: not saying that puppet players can't be skilled players). It's Cryptic who should test stuff first before releasing it and ofc repair stuff which is clearly broken asap. But they don't do. Other players, including me, who want to succeed in sth. theirselves exactly by developing and improving their skills may go Fury where every time you improve your gear and your tactics will pay off. You can't really say this or that one is better than the other because it depends on group, timing, situation and even the difficulty of the dungeon/skirmish. Everyone has to find out for themselves what is importan to them and then choose which way to go. @schietindebux says "puppet is easy and great dmg from the early lvl 70 state on, don't care for bugs or broken stuff" which is alright if this is what matters to him. I say "fury can do that great dmg, too, though it may require skill, practise and knowledge regarding the class" which is the way to go if you refuse broken stuff whenever you have the choice, which is what I do on my main at least.
Last thing i want to point at: 1. TT bugged, as you stated ...onehitting a boss, endless rebound effects causing fury dealing >40% if overall damage with one daily 2. Lolset bugged, also in warlocks case regarding sparkgain 3. Compagnions triple bonus bugged
All things that could be regarded as exploit or bug abuse Strip lolset, use augment and deny TT Now I can't say anything....you do play a clean way In my eyes it's double standard at the best in this thread
And beside the puppet most did not recognize the importance of another daily for damnation path, especially if you do single focussed damage
We are what we are ,for puppets by the light holden upon our limits and thier control . Until they create a dark and light option for characters thy scourge shall be weak . In the rise of demons the line fades our once blessing is renewed .We have suffered long and remained with the rise of demons with story line and if you choose we shall grow stronger. Our dark powers may get stronger while our light power will be lowered .Depends on the rp
Comments
Sure its that way, what do you expect?
and if i just skip the capstone fury will deal more damage....what are we discussing exactly?
Fury in an average group like stated from rotters deals more damage than a damnation lock, thats said , right?
I said its wrong.
Now you want me to do a run without any teammates and on top substract puppets damage from overall damage to state that fury deal more damage?
hmm sounds not at all rational imo
so next you want me to do is take of my weapon enchant, right
if you want to test the both pathes in the way the game is played do it, if you try to create a completely artificial group to come to your prove that fury >damnation we can do that together I am in.
Btw running any dungeon with 5 warlocks is menaningless
5xTT at the same time would not tell you anything about damage except who casted first and who moved forward fastes
the mobs just do not have enough HP to give answer to that question being burned in 2 seconds
a realistic setup would be 1 OP with permabubble and two warlocks, to check it and get the best answer to that question imo
I run ACT from time to time, even going SH dragons the damage damnation lock deals is not that bad , not having feybeld set (if anyone points in that direction)
I do not use a companion with maxed stones, i run augment, even I do not have a pure PVE setup
The reason why damnation works fine, even outside dungeons, probabaly a bit worse than fury cant say exactly, is the fact that you can use immolation spirits more effective all time and can gain lots of sparks by that all time,its a win win
Sprits deal very proper damage (look up for firy blast) and sparks are more than a fury can gain, if spirit crits 30 sparks are up like in 6 seconds.
playing fury and using immolation spirits the uptime is far worse 5sec less and the delay from beginning to start casting is redicules sometimes, spritis standing beside you and looking at the ceiling for 4 seconds, making the hole thing a bit ineffective
To me normal party in pve might be 2 gwf TR, tank and SW. I'd rather play with that group than wait for "right" party buff group.
Sure i could do better damage with damnation and right buffs, but i would rather do constant dps in T1/T2 as a fury.
So is it damnation which is really good or right party comp.? I'd say both. Puppet, in its actual state, does pretty decent damage in t2 even without great buffs. I just prefer fury as it's not the kind of "autopilot" style damnation is. And as fury SW I managed to onehit etos first boss with good group, what no other class / build in this game is able to AFAIK. My point is even if the puppet could / would onehit that boss there is nothing for me to be 'proud' of as it's not my work but the work of my pet
And puppet also works in T1
Not that redicules as T2
Probably i allways met the wrong warlocks.
But reading about lots of ppl struggeling with the class I have to allways point out that there are good DPS Options, no matter if cheap and simple, thats what i like
At normal gear level damnation will allways top fury because the capstone can't deal what puppet does
Above 3.5 to 4k using maxed out gear with companions like that zen warlock and maxed selfbuffs fury can top damnation
(danm my useless DC got one from last year AD promotion.....not my warlock)
Most player are less 3 k GS i guess
Thats why I allways say.....go damnation be happy chaep and simple
Instead of going fury and feel worthless at that level arround 2-2,5k
Other question , how does a warlock onehit first etos boss?
KF? Only deals that damage when lost HP to some level
Also TT is necrotic damage which will activate fury capstone to deal 60% of said damage again.
tbh normally i am too lazy too look out for anyone else to put it except the boss
thats why I play damnation and you go fury
but again , I can run a dungeon with any setup tabatha choses because i am just interested in comparing both path
we already did our run, and you tried damnation last time
did you not see the difference, beside the fact that puppet deals the damage?
but thats not my problem
we could also discuss about silly selfbuffs from GWF and an at-will like WMS that deals more damage than every encounter warlocks got
scaling and balance in this game is a problem since I started this game
most classes should scip encounters and feats and dailies that are broken and not to discuss like SE or permabubble or perma daze or OP´s that deal more damage than lots of striker classes dependeing on the tree they chose or Tr´s that run faster than an epic mount
warlock is a class that has lots of useless feats encounter and is hard to play in PVP , you can suffer and reject that stuff or accept it
btw a companion that gives you 3x95% of his stats by triggering a proc from bonding runestone rank 12 has also be considered being broken and everyone that rejects a puppet should reject an obviously broken selfbuff from a companion
the list is endless and I can´t see any arguments to reject one thing and welcome another broken stuff
That way you have consistent data, someone obviously running ACT or something, across the runs and I'd suggest multiple runs and averaging the results.
Is it redundant, and requires more effort than 2x SWs in one run to see who is the best "head to head"? Yes.
However it avoids people not playing the dungeons correctly, for example being the last one to apply TT so it adds to your DPS and not the other SW.
Hope that helps!
I gonna play , get a beer and fury wins
to not be misunderstood in any way
the reason why I post this stuff is not to be best at anything, I can lose in any circumstances
its only to show different ways and from what I heared and saw there are lots of warlocks, esp in the medium to undergeared fraction, also in our guild, who changed to damnation and felt released and enjoyed the game again not beeing at the bottom of paingiver, some points above the tank
if the soul puppet were tied directly to the warlocks stats it would be different.
noone testet these things only assumptions only personal experiences , thats it
Quallo in game feel free to test stuff with me
I stated from mod 5 that SB is superior to HB, most did not want to hear it
I state from mod 6 damnation is superior to fury in most cases except PVP and probabaly soling
just compared both trees and that is my irrefutable opinion
lots of you use broken stuff like lolset, companions triplebuff and more but everyone wants to discuss the damn puppet , ignoring all that broken s.hit arround
I switched to fury from damnation after i got active companion with perfect bondings. Most of my playtime i've been damnation so i can assure you i know damnation quite well.
Fury is better for me and i'm not telling it's better for all as ain't damnation. IMO Higher stats/pvp ->fury, lower stats/pve ->damnation
1. TT bugged, as you stated ...onehitting a boss, endless rebound effects causing fury dealing >40% if overall damage with one daily
2. Lolset bugged, also in warlocks case regarding sparkgain
3. Compagnions triple bonus bugged
All things that could be regarded as exploit or bug abuse
Strip lolset, use augment and deny TT
Now I can't say anything....you do play a clean way
In my eyes it's double standard at the best in this thread
And beside the puppet most did not recognize the importance of another daily for damnation path, especially if you do single focussed damage