Getting all your enchantment to rank 10, JUST to rank 10

jody095 · October 2015

For the sake of argument, let's say you are NOT upgrading darks in utility slots, and you are running an ioun stone, and have epic artifact equipment.... Let the fun begin.....

You have 16 enchantment stones to upgrade (excluding utility slots), If you have all legendary equipment you have 20 to upgrade.
Now let's say you buy all level 7 enchantments for 10k AD each and want to upgrade them all to level 10 yourself - to save the most resources (and of course you do....). Each upgrade from level 7 to level 10 costs you (10) greater marks of potency and (8) level 7 enchants.

(10) GMOPs @ 85k AD = 850,000 AD
(8) Level 7 enchants @ 10k AD = 80,000 AD
Total price tag = 930,000 AD (I am completely excluding any price involved in upgrading the enchantments to the next level or "feeding", btw...)

Now.... That's 16 enchantment stones x 930,000 AD.
That is 14,880,000 AD. 13,600,000 of which comes from buying Greater Marks of Potency.

Now if you are legendary geared AND are running darks in your utilities, that's 25 enchantments x 930,000 AD. Well, that's gonna cost you 23,250,000 AD.

I believe if you're a free to play player, you can earn about 700k AD per month. 20 months to get to level 10 enchantments, grinding every day, JUST to level 10. I don't even want to BEGIN to calculate the cost of going to level 12...

This post is meant to be objective and I am not inserting any opinions. It is purely an FYI for players

Before now, I had no idea the amount of GMOPs it would take to get JUST to level 10. Also it should be stated that the strength of your enchantments almost doubles between rank 7 and 10. And about 70% of the total stats an enchantment can give comes from between ranks 8 and 12. Again though, totally unbiased opinion on the motivations of the makers of this game. This is JUST the cost of upgrading enchantments from rank 7 to rank 10 (excluding the cost of leveling or "feeding" the enchantment. This does not show the cost of upgrading artifacts and artifact equipment... 20 months, JUST.

If you are unsure of how I came up with the numbers, please ask, just so all can be aware.

zephyriah · October 2015

Only one major disagreement for me with your numbers. 700,000 AD per month. It looks like you are using the daily refining limit (24,000) times 30 to get your number. It is possible to make less, but more importantly it is trivial to make more. I don't want to turn this into a "How to make AD" derail. So, let's just say I strongly disagree with your income premise. If that is how you got the number then using both free character slots could double income and cut the time in half. If you used another method to get the 700,000AD number, please elaborate.

But mainly, it's an MMO. It's supposed to take time. Many will rush, others will not.

pbrand45 · October 2015

Good thing in mod7 they reduce the price if gmop in the bazaar to 25k

elikenui · October 2015

pbrand45 said:
Good thing in mod7 they reduce the price if gmop in the bazaar to 25k

The bad thing is mod 7 was/is unpopular and many people quit neverwinter due to it.

zephyriah · October 2015

pbrand45 said:
Good thing in mod7 they reduce the price if gmop in the bazaar to 25k

Only if we get the same AD changes PC got. (I expect it, too. But it has not been confirmed) The change was not part of Mod 7, it came after Mod7 was rolled out.

And you fail to mention the new improved higher mark of potency that is needed, that sells for the same price as the current GMOP. With that in mind, I don't think that the change you mention will impact the OP's numbers significantly.

jody095 · October 2015

zephyriah said:
Only one major disagreement for me with your numbers. 700,000 AD per month. It looks like you are using the daily refining limit (24,000) times 30 to get your number. It is possible to make less, but more importantly it is trivial to make more. I don't want to turn this into a "How to make AD" derail. So, let's just say I strongly disagree with your income premise. If that is how you got the number then using both free character slots could double income and cut the time in half. If you used another method to get the 700,000AD number, please elaborate.

But mainly, it's an MMO. It's supposed to take time. Many will rush, others will not.

You make a perfectly sensible point and I'm sure you are right to a certain degree and I thank you for pointing that out. It does not change the point I'm making though. In actuality, I have no idea no idea how much you can make free 2 play in a month, that's just the most common number I've heard thrown around. Lets say you can make 3 million a month for an average f2p player... Speaking to my point, it will still take you 5-6 months to JUST get your enchants to level 10 on an just an epic artifact equipment geared toon. The main underlying point being, that is ONLY enchantments, not considering artifact gmops, artifact equipment gmops, and resources to upgrade them both. Also doesn't take into account materials for crafting rings for you and ioun stone, a belt for your stone, pants and a shirt for you, mithral crafting resources, getting companions, upgrading companions, DHE's... etc etc etc. 5-6 months JUST for level 10 enchantments, grinding daily, multiple f2p characters, just enchantments, just to level 10, for only 1 character.

kriptical1 · October 2015

Reagents are a bit out of hand. Seems as if they have adopted the casino/dealer plan.

Give it away until they are hooked and then stick it too em. A lot of this depends how often we are going to be upgrading the artifact gear as wel. That is, if we keep getting newer artifact pieces things can get annoying, if not it provides a long term path to upgrading. It's the difference between too much which kinda makes things feel futile and keeping it interesting. A delicate balance to be sure. Presently it seems as if they are going a bit hard..

zephyriah · October 2015

jody095 said:

You make a perfectly sensible point and I'm sure you are right to a certain degree and I thank you for pointing that out. It does not change the point I'm making though. In actuality, I have no idea no idea how much you can make free 2 play in a month, that's just the most common number I've heard thrown around. Lets say you can make 3 million a month for an average f2p player... Speaking to my point, it will still take you 5-6 months to JUST get your enchants to level 10 on an just an epic artifact equipment geared toon.

That still assumes there is a need or a goal to have everything at that high a level. Can you demonstrate that there is such a need outside of high level PvP?

The point I got from your OP is that it takes time and effort(or money) to gear up. I don't think anyone thought otherwise.

jody095 · October 2015

zephyriah said:

1st point, yes, easily. and I kind of touched on it with 70% of stats being locked away by the last level of enchants and artifacts. The difficulty of dungeons would be the biggest need. A secondary, but no less important need would be because I want to, and I think most everyone does too. Do you want to fail dungeons with inferior gear and enchants all day?

2nd point, you're spot on. I do mean it takes money. Time and effort is not enough. Unless you mean playing for years to run content. To play the game competitively, whether in pvp or run any PVE end game dungeons, it takes money. Unless you want to run double pallies, but that's a whole other story, which I couldn't expand on here, even if I wanted to.... And it takes A LOT of money. To elaborate, I really mean gouged. I don't want to insert my opinion too much but the point of the post was to show exactly to the degree of which you are subject to be gouged to play competitively. That was the point... The degree to which you are at a disadvantage without contributing astronomical sums of money.

I think everyone realizes that it is pay to win, but I don't think everyone, myself included, fully understood the degree of how far it actually goes. 15 - 25 million astral diamonds, for JUST one character, JUST to upgrade from 7 to 10 enchants, and nothing else, JUST that one aspect of the game - which seems minor to everything else you need. That is a far cry from time and effort - and for me, is an absolutely absurd amount of money to play the game competitively. It truly disappointed me because the only I way I play is competitively, and at the highest level of all games I play. I just wanted to open people's eyes the way mine just got openied. Any game that says free to play you can probably assume costs thousands of dollars to play at the highest level.

bagoat · October 2015

The last MMO I played, I played for almost 6 years. Yup, 6 years of playing the same game on a daily basis. That is what I LOVE about MMOs. There is no other game, in any genre, that I have played daily for that long. Even then, after 6 years I did not have the best of the best gear or accessories. But, it was ok. I could still do everything, with or without help, that the game offered (at least, the things I cared to do).
IMO, too many people treat MMOs like other genres and feel that they need to "beat" the game in a month or so. To them, I think I would say, MMOs might not be your gig.
The path I am taking to upgrade my gear will probably take me months (if I'm lucky, it will take years) and I am fine with that because it means I have a game that enjoy playing and I can keep playing if for a long, long time.

/wall. o/

jody095 · October 2015

bagoat said:
The last MMO I played, I played for almost 6 years. Yup, 6 years of playing the same game on a daily basis. That is what I LOVE about MMOs. There is no other game, in any genre, that I have played daily for that long. Even then, after 6 years I did not have the best of the best gear or accessories. But, it was ok. I could still do everything, with or without help, that the game offered (at least, the things I cared to do).

IMO, too many people treat MMOs like other genres and feel that they need to "beat" the game in a month or so. To them, I think I would say, MMOs might not be your gig.

The path I am taking to upgrade my gear will probably take me months (if I'm lucky, it will take years) and I am fine with that because it means I have a game that enjoy playing and I can keep playing if for a long, long time.

/wall. o/

To that I would say. What are you doing right now in neverwinter? Are you clearing t1 or t2 dungeons? Are you clearing the content you want to be clearing and what is it you want to be able to do in neverwinter? What is your timeline to being able to do so? Will that be before the game is upgraded again to another "impossible" level of grinding for free players? What level are your enchantments and what gear are you using? Have you put money into this game and how much?

To me, it sounds like you're saying you don't mind being inferior in ability to contribute to content compared to everyone you play with, if you are in fact clearing end game pve content as a free player and that you are being carried by others. If that is not the case, then I would say you have put a lot of money into this as I have. And either way is fine for me. But the latter would only be proving my point.

Personally though, I don't feel the need to beat a game in a month and that is exactly what I like about rpgs, mmorpgs and that was not the point of this post. It seems to me, some people just want to stick up for a game they like, and that is fine. But to them I would say jumping into an objective argument might not be their gig.

zephyriah · October 2015

jody095 said:

1st point, yes, easily. and I kind of touched on it with 70% of stats being locked away by the last level of enchants and artifacts. The difficulty of dungeons would be the biggest need. A secondary, but no less important need would be because I want to, and I think most everyone does too. Do you want to fail dungeons with inferior gear and enchants all day?

See, that's another difference and a great thing about MMO's. I really don't care much for running dungeons. I do miss the Cloak Tower. Hate Pvp. So, me and other players like me, we don't have the need to rush for high level gear/enchants. I like skirmishes, Heroic encounters, special events and the like. A weekend long CTA, great. A weeklong or 3 week long event (10 weeks or so until Winter Festival) even better. Decent gear and rank 7/8 enchants, weekly/ some dailies in IWD are a challenge, WOD is insane to solo, but everything else (remember, not dungeons) is fun and easily doable. I play for fun and to relax. I do expect to have all rank 8's by the time the weekend ends, so I do progress my gear.

You have no way of knowing what most everyone wants and neither do I. I can't assume everyone plays like me and you can't assume everyone plays and wants the same as you. It boils down to, I really don't know if there is a strong need/desire among the majority of the player base to get to the levels you used or to do it quickly, there may be. I do know that I don't want anyone who reads your post to get discouraged/dissuaded by the conclusions you provide without knowing there is at least one dissenting opinion from another player about the need and time. But, they should know the cost you provided is accurate and they will pay it if they want those levels.

jody095 · October 2015

zephyriah said:

jody095 said:

1st point, yes, easily. and I kind of touched on it with 70% of stats being locked away by the last level of enchants and artifacts. The difficulty of dungeons would be the biggest need. A secondary, but no less important need would be because I want to, and I think most everyone does too. Do you want to fail dungeons with inferior gear and enchants all day?

See, that's another difference and a great thing about MMO's. I really don't care much for running dungeons. I do miss the Cloak Tower. Hate Pvp. So, me and other players like me, we don't have the need to rush for high level gear/enchants. I like skirmishes, Heroic encounters, special events and the like. A weekend long CTA, great. A weeklong or 3 week long event (10 weeks or so until Winter Festival) even better. Decent gear and rank 7/8 enchants, weekly/ some dailies in IWD are a challenge, WOD is insane to solo, but everything else (remember, not dungeons) is fun and easily doable. I play for fun and to relax. I do expect to have all rank 8's by the time the weekend ends, so I do progress my gear.

You have no way of knowing what most everyone wants and neither do I. I can't assume everyone plays like me and you can't assume everyone plays and wants the same as you. It boils down to, I really don't know if there is a strong need/desire among the majority of the player base to get to the levels you used or to do it quickly, there may be. I do know that I don't want anyone who reads your post to get discouraged/dissuaded by the conclusions you provide without knowing there is at least one dissenting opinion from another player about the need and time. But, they should know the cost you provided is accurate and they will pay it if they want those levels.

That's fair. And I can respect that. I like the game too, but not unconditionally. Some aspects I find quite disparaging.

kriptical1 · October 2015

Thing is need and time boil down too; if your logging in every day and playing 'normally,' not gonzo and not slacking, you should be able to be ready for the next mod. By ready I don't mean maxed out in everything, because that would lead to boredom, but competent to tackle the new stuff without having to wait a month after release. Tiamat is a good example in that many are stuck with a large number of favors to go for the final boon and that ain't happening anytime soon. Heck maybe never. Getting locked out, for whatever reason, when you play on the regular is kinda annoying.

mercbenz360 · October 2015

QUESTION: Did you take into account Preservation Wards or Coalescent Wards at all? I've gone through a whole pack making a rank 9 and several for an 8. I can't imagine how many you need for 10.

I used to say Neverwinter was much better time spent than Destiny because it was a treadmill for the sake of a treadmill and in NW I felt the incremental progress. BUT after seeing what it takes in 2x RP, I'm pretty floored. It took my 3 of the Blood Rubys I bought from hitting 70 at 50% off just to take my weapon from 58-59. 3!!!!

I'm totally all for trickling out the progression over time, BUT there's people out there with all Legendary and Mythic and Rank 10s+. Seriously, that's quite a disparity that doesn't put people on even ground.

I've never been disillusioned that spending $ wasn't their goal, but it's VERY clear now how much everything is based on this and just how severe it is.

rockstargfu · October 2015

Skilll makes the player, read everything you from upgrades in % and see how small the upgrades really are.

I dont see myself with full rank 9s even if this mod lasts 5 months.

Maybe rank 9 defence but rank 8 offense yes,

Ima tank

nullvaluepoint · October 2015

Am I the only one wondering why he's not able to earn the Marks and Wards himself without buying them from other people? Is he intentionally avoiding Dread Ring? Does he not believe in Invocations or spend all his Celestial coins on Elixirs of Fate? Does he do absolutely nothing to earn anything that can trade for AD?

Seeing the total makes it seem like a lot, but that cost is spread out over months. It's like having a small bank account all year and seeing tens of thousands of dollars on your W-2. He's trying to sticker shock people.

Greater Marks are dropping more often now. They are also per-person and you don't have to worry about boot-looters. The price is dropping even with the double refinement and new artifact [equipment] causing a momentary demand for them.

Why even complain while prices aren't stable and content is so new that farming hasn't picked up?

nem3sls · October 2015

Double RP has helped me to upgrade almost all my enchants to 10, levelling up my perfect Feytouch, getting my main artifacts to legendary, my lantern to mystic and my main weap to legendary.

I farmed like mad and all of my chars and bank accounts are empty now, still 5 more chars to do that. Next time double RP.

boom782 · October 2015

bagoat said:
The last MMO I played, I played for almost 6 years. Yup, 6 years of playing the same game on a daily basis. That is what I LOVE about MMOs. There is no other game, in any genre, that I have played daily for that long. Even then, after 6 years I did not have the best of the best gear or accessories. But, it was ok. I could still do everything, with or without help, that the game offered (at least, the things I cared to do).

IMO, too many people treat MMOs like other genres and feel that they need to "beat" the game in a month or so. To them, I think I would say, MMOs might not be your gig.

The path I am taking to upgrade my gear will probably take me months (if I'm lucky, it will take years) and I am fine with that because it means I have a game that enjoy playing and I can keep playing if for a long, long time.

/wall. o/

Great point. I feel most people that complain about difficulty or any sort of 'pay wall' have never played another MMO before and don't realize that you aren't supposed to have BiS or beat 'end game' content after a month or two. If you did you would find this game to be very boring and move on quickly since there is nothing to work for anymore.

blindmonkeyz · October 2015

I didnt start my enchantments yet. I have a bunch of rank 8 and 9 though. I just need a few more to be at 10. But i did get my Sigil of Devoted to Mythic and the other 3 to Legendary and my Main hand and Off hand to Legendary. And made 3 greater bonding stones for my companion for 150% from companions gift which is a huge stat boost.

zman81420 · October 2015

My guild is smashing T2 dungeons with mediocre gear before 2x RP. Now its boring...and I have HAMSTER enchantments. All epic gear and artifacts. Mediocre or not we all play for some type of enjoyment and this post should make people aware of the looming costs but should in no way or shape deter anyone from enjoying the end game. Get in a guild that helps each other progress, share items and know how to build groups for T2 dungeons.

sharpassassin1 · October 2015

mercbenz360 said:
It took my 3 of the Blood Rubys I bought from hitting 70 at 50% off just to take my weapon from 58-59. 3!!!!.

Blood ruby's seemed like an absolute waste on an AD to refinement point perspective (i made the mistake of thinking I had to take advantage of the 50% off coupon)....I didn't do the math, but it just felt like there were far cheaper alternatives on the AH that achieved the same amount of refinement points, but that seems to be the case with everything on the Zen Market.

As for the OP's point.....that's been a very difficult balance for myself, trying to stay interested without becoming overwhelmed by the grind. This DR weekend definitely put into perspective the amount of work it takes to truly level up your character without spending hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to be competitive...which is probably the main reason why i've never been able to get into PVP. Matches are setup based on levels, yet no level 70 is the same as the next and you can often feel like you're some level 10 noob who was mistakenly dropped into the wrong match....

xristopher1024 · October 2015

I figured out that you will need a total of 123,600,000 refinement points to level up to max all your equipment, artifacts, 20 enchantments, and companion runestones and double slotted gear enchantments.

Artifact Equipment 18,580,800
Artifacts 41,878,540
Enchantments 43,545,400
Companion 19,595,430
Total 123,600,170

This total does not include any reagent enchantments you may need to lvl up nor the marks needed. One nice thing is after upgrading your enchantments to 10, you no longer need reagents, just marks.

jody095 · October 2015

mercbenz360 said:
QUESTION: Did you take into account Preservation Wards or Coalescent Wards at all? I've gone through a whole pack making a rank 9 and several for an 8. I can't imagine how many you need for 10.

Nope, I did not include weapon and armor enchants/coal wards whatsoever. Also I did not include preservation ward costs because they are minor in comparison to the cost of GMOPs, but thanks for bringing that up, it's definitely an additional cost.

nullvaluepoint said:
Am I the only one wondering why he's not able to earn the Marks and Wards himself without buying them from other people? Is he intentionally avoiding Dread Ring? Does he not believe in Invocations or spend all his Celestial coins on Elixirs of Fate? Does he do absolutely nothing to earn anything that can trade for AD?

Seeing the total makes it seem like a lot, but that cost is spread out over months. It's like having a small bank account all year and seeing tens of thousands of dollars on your W-2. He's trying to sticker shock people.

Greater Marks are dropping more often now. They are also per-person and you don't have to worry about boot-looters. The price is dropping even with the double refinement and new artifact [equipment] causing a momentary demand for them.

Why even complain while prices aren't stable and content is so new that farming hasn't picked up?

You probably are the only one wondering because Greater Marks of Stability/Union/Power that drop in dread ring are not used at all in upgrading enchantments. But yes, I do run dread ring daily. As far as greater marks of Potency - that are needed, they no longer drop in dungeons. And if they do I haven't gotten one yet and I have run over 100 t1's and 5 or so t2's to completion. I have been opening the free chest every day since it began with VIP and have gotten one greater mark of potency. So that's not really going to change the numbers very much, maybe a few hundred thousand depending on how lucky you are. If you are VIP 12 you can lower the cost of them by 10k and take 160,000 from the total of 15 million needed. Again, not a big change at all. To your other points about being spread out over months, it is really spread out over a year or more for a free player and only JUST for enchants, not weapon armor enchants, not artifact, not artifact equipment, not crafting. Yes, it is shocking. As far as my income, I check the AH daily several times and it is 95% of my AD income - buying/reselling, crafting and selling. I have 3 characters at 70 and invoke on them all. Never got a GMOP from the 11 celestial coin coffer.

poopoomcmuffns said:
Also like to point out, that if you watch the ah, you can pick up some higher level enchants for much cheaper than it takes to make...i bought a rank 9 dark yesterday for under 300k and a second one for just over 300k that night. Rank 8s have dropped dramatically in price due to them dropping from lockboxes now, you can almost buy rank 8s of every kind for the cost of a greater mark of potency...just saying.

True. But getting getting azures and radiants is what the majority of people will want with this mod and those are almost never cheaper by any significant amount of the cost to make, because of that demand. Profanes however are very cheap and I do use 3 of them on ioun stone. Dark's I do not use at all because all my armor pen comes from gear, slightly over 60%, but yes they can be cheaper than the cost to make them, at times. If I ever got to the point where I don't need DHE or Fey Blessing I would switch them out for darks in my utilities.

pbrand45 · October 2015

Greater Marks of Potency have been reduced from 100k AD to 25k AD and have a chance to drop from Enchanted Coffers from Leadership.
Superior Marks of Potency have been added to the Wondrous Bazaar and will be priced at 100k AD and Have a chance to drop from the Refiner's Cache and Coffers in the Dread Ring.
Refining Enchantments from Rank 10 to 11 will now cost 2 Superior Marks of Potency, instead of 5 Greater Marks of Potency.
Refining Enchantments from Rank 11 to 12 will now cost 4 Superior Marks of Potency, instead of 5 Greater Marks of Potency.
Refining Armor and Weapon Enchantments above Rank 10 now require Superior Marks of Potency instead of Greater Marks of Potency.

Notes on tomorrow's patch. Lol glad i didn't buy any gmop this drp

pbrand45 · October 2015

Potency cost change:

Leveling enchants from 7-10 costs was cut by 3/4.

Leveling enchants from 10-11 costs was cut by over 1/2

Leveling enchants from 11-12 costs was cut by 1/5.

jody095 · October 2015

It's a start. Kudos for not drawing that out more, neverwinter.

sharpassassin1 · October 2015

pbrand45 said:
Potency cost change:

Leveling enchants from 7-10 costs was cut by 3/4.

Leveling enchants from 10-11 costs was cut by over 1/2

Leveling enchants from 11-12 costs was cut by 1/5.

True costs have dropped dramatically...but as has the ability to earn AD's

patsfire · October 2015

The only AD cut was leadership. Skirmishes are the way to get AD anyway. Plus, according to the path notes, bosses will be rewarding AD, along with their normal drops.

pbrand45 · October 2015

For the causal player who only makes ad by salvaging and the occasional rare drop , it hasn't affected the ability earn ad.

For the people who has 20 characters farming leadership instead of playing the game, yeah it does affect ability to earn ad.

Getting all your enchantment to rank 10, JUST to rank 10

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