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Let players earn 24k AD a day. If 24k is the limit, who cares how they earn it?
ironzerg79
Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
If 24k is the set limit, let people earn it. The reality is most people still won't earn the maximum, some people will earn more via alts, and others will earn less. But who cares? Because right now, the big issues is twofold:
1) Players are struggling to HAVE FUN earning up to the cap
2) There is a perception that you CAN'T earn up to the cap because of the diminishing returns and hard limits per activity
So what the devs have done is create a limit within a limit, which isn't fair to the players.
Give each major player activity a flat RAD reward, and leave it at that. Eliminate the diminishing returns or the caps on RAD production for each activity. Let players play the way they want to play, and feel rewarded by it. I don't see how a hard and then a soft limit on what players can earn benefits the game in any way.
Dungeon Runs (T1/T2): 4000 RAD/Run
Dungeon Runs (Non-Epic): 1000 RAD/run
PvP (GG, Domination, or SH Seige): 2000 RAD/run
Skirmishes: 2000 RAD/run
Campaign/Stronghold daily quests: 1000 RAD/quest
Approved (non-farm) Foundry Maps: 1000 RAD/run
The only adjustment should be based on level. Below level 70, you earn only a % of what a level 70 would earn for that task.
Then let people earn away. If someone thinks dungeons are really fun to run, let them run an Epic dungeon six times that day to earn 24,000. And if they have a lot of time to play today, but not tomorrow, let them keep earning extra RAD.
If someone wants to PvP all day long, then let them earn 24k AD playing PvP.
And for those solo players who just like to quest, without the "headache" of grouping up, doing daily quests should be a viable alternative to group play, so they can earn a fair amount of AD.
And then leave it at that. I've said it a million times, and I'll continue to say it: PLAYING customers are PAYING customers.
If people have fun, enjoy the game and feel like progress is fair, they'll keep playing, and very likely keep paying. And the more playing customers you have, the more alive the game feels, the more active guilds, dungeons and PvP maps become, and you create a virtuous cycle of reward and retention.
EDIT: Oops! Forgot about the Foundry
1) Players are struggling to HAVE FUN earning up to the cap
2) There is a perception that you CAN'T earn up to the cap because of the diminishing returns and hard limits per activity
So what the devs have done is create a limit within a limit, which isn't fair to the players.
Give each major player activity a flat RAD reward, and leave it at that. Eliminate the diminishing returns or the caps on RAD production for each activity. Let players play the way they want to play, and feel rewarded by it. I don't see how a hard and then a soft limit on what players can earn benefits the game in any way.
Dungeon Runs (T1/T2): 4000 RAD/Run
Dungeon Runs (Non-Epic): 1000 RAD/run
PvP (GG, Domination, or SH Seige): 2000 RAD/run
Skirmishes: 2000 RAD/run
Campaign/Stronghold daily quests: 1000 RAD/quest
Approved (non-farm) Foundry Maps: 1000 RAD/run
The only adjustment should be based on level. Below level 70, you earn only a % of what a level 70 would earn for that task.
Then let people earn away. If someone thinks dungeons are really fun to run, let them run an Epic dungeon six times that day to earn 24,000. And if they have a lot of time to play today, but not tomorrow, let them keep earning extra RAD.
If someone wants to PvP all day long, then let them earn 24k AD playing PvP.
And for those solo players who just like to quest, without the "headache" of grouping up, doing daily quests should be a viable alternative to group play, so they can earn a fair amount of AD.
And then leave it at that. I've said it a million times, and I'll continue to say it: PLAYING customers are PAYING customers.
If people have fun, enjoy the game and feel like progress is fair, they'll keep playing, and very likely keep paying. And the more playing customers you have, the more alive the game feels, the more active guilds, dungeons and PvP maps become, and you create a virtuous cycle of reward and retention.
EDIT: Oops! Forgot about the Foundry
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
Post edited by ironzerg79 on
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However, you made my point. Some people will find ways to more easily earn the 24k/day than others, but other players shouldn't feel punished for not choosing the "optimal AD path", but instead the path that's fun for them.
Sure, you can definitely earn the 24k AD cap. You maximized that. But would you say you maximized your "fun" doing it? Or were you just grinding at points to hit the cap?
The *only* fair way for everyone to get AD is to implement an AD reward system for finishing quests, whether it's dungeons, skirmishes, PvP, or leveling quests, or EE, or campaigns or SH dailies. This way, players in guilds, as well as solo players, will always have a steady income of AD for simply playing the game, which is what the devs have stated AD is for: (Source: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1203585/astral-diamond-changes/p1 )
Having said that... so far our dev team is doing a great job in getting this game turned around, so I imagine that this is a change that we'll be seeing in the relatively near future.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Yes, there is an issue if someone is ONLY interested in the Campaign zones... or choosing to play the game they want, which may or may not include the usual content... they will be "AD poor". Then gain those players are not really focused on the End Game so to speak. Not that there is an End Game in EE.. major fail point.
I do fully support this idea... and at the same time they should increase the maximum refining limit... to something other than 24k.
So I'm left with trying to figure out how to modify my activity in game, while still having fun. I'm met with artificial roadblocks like the diminishing returns stated in the OP, and it's... I guess disheartening?
I would 100% support this proposed change. Given that, I feel I could sort out any other issues I may have adjusting to changes on my own.
I hope it is considered.
considering corrent zens rate 1:375, 2k are 5 zens which is 5 cents.
So the partecipation of a player, lets assume a free player, to increase the actual playerbase in a given time is worth 5 cents/20 minutes (the average time of whatever activity ).
in the strange case of playing as job we would be payed 15 cents/hour.
i know this sound absurd, we do not play as a job but for fun ye....
but am i really going to stick with bad players when i know my reward is going to be that??
no, if the idea was giving players a reason to play more in my case failed hard.
i did play an average amount of dd, skirm, pvp in the past... im hardly playing right now.
The diminishing returns and the limits within a limit has annihilated my meager income and really never made much sense to me. Its hard enough trying to get Protector Seals with my mostly unreliable gaming schedule, but also not having the AD is kind of getting demoralizing. When I do get a chunk of hours to play, it'd be nice to get rewarded for it, rather than get one/two partial rewards (if I can get in a Dungeon run or two) and then spend the rest of the time gathering supplies for the Stronghold.
Keep the refining limit, but let us earn AD for playing the content.
But at a certain point, you have the accept the benefit to the players outweighs the "but bots" part.
I'd even go as far as setting "max price" AD limits on some goods, to make it more difficult to transfer AD from account to account in the AH. I wouldn't make these limits public, only use them internally so that if you see certain items being sold on the AH beyond those far, far, far beyond reasonable limits, it triggers an internal audit flag of the accounts.
Such as "vendor trash" greys having a maximum AD price of 500 AD, or AD/Item caps on certain non-"rare" equipment...basically anything that's near useless anyway shouldn't be able to be sold for hundreds of thousands or millions of AD.
Prevents the "Hey, thanks for buying AD. Put on [Crappy item] on the AH for 1,000,000 AD". If the game detects that transaction, it flags the accounts for investigation by CS, and if it appears that it was a gold farming transaction, both accounts get banned.
If people knew there was a chance of them getting detected and banned for buying AD from 3rd party sites, I'm sure it would impact the AD sales.
Another point i fail to see is, it was stated the new system shall reward time, i dont see it cause of these points;
a) why is running a dungeon after the 2nd time less rewarding than the first 2? Do i make it magically way faster than before?
b)why is it more rewarding to run 4 dungeons with 2 characters (2 times 2)?
c) i spent also time doing dailys for sh, campaign, or whatever. Where is the reward there? Don`t we spent there time too, or no?
Another point is this 24k limit, why having a limit if it is per character? This is also something that is bothering me for a while. It cant be to make ppl buy slots, cause especially atm most will have a hard time to reach 48k+ to make even full use of the 2 free slots.
If i would have any say in it i would make the following (focused only on the subject we speak about):
rad for everything, and i really mean everything. Dailys (excluding vigilance quests, or hourquests whatever u call them), Heroics, + the suff we have, the stuff we have with an increase in a range of 25-50% all of them without a demishing return + what the OP suggested under lvl 70 only a %. This will prevent botting on lower levels. Next getting rid of the 24k limit per charackter. Either make it accountwide with eg 48k+ every other charakter adds sth like 12k to it, or remove it entirely. Then giving a bit more attention to bots with a bannhammer and viola, we got what u stated before reward for time, and not some pseudo thing we have right now. What we have now is a more like time reward for some stuff to a certain point, then your time gets less worth
Games are meant to be fun. If progression isn't fun (and I'm not asking for EZmode, work can be fun), people get frustrated and quit.
Certain content is more suited for AD generation than others, and with BoA gear that can be salvged from dungeons and guild store, well... you can pass those around all your alts.
Eventually the devs will have to take a look at this "issue", in every sense.
Without regular and constant communication from the other side, there is just really no hope to see anything get implemented that we the player base can believe that they care.
Great idea; but I just don't think it will matter.
The Foundry is a great way to get away from the constant grind, grinding for gear, grinding for RP for your gear and now I feel like I have to grind for my AD.
I'm a working adult with limited game time and I'm always trying to balance my free time...grinding for gear/rp to stay competitive or having "fun".
So, let us have a nice RAD reward for running that original Foundry content, but not feel like we're missing out on AD/gear/seals/rp/etc. because we're not running something we "have" to, to get said items.
Foundry aside...I think Ironzerg has nailed it...a great way to keep players playing, having a little freedom to choose how they want to do it and have fun. I would guess that happy players are more often paying players as well.
I ask that you restore getting AD through the Foundry, especially through the timed requirement quests of 15+ minutes. I prefer to quest on my own and the foundry is the only way I use to earn AD. Please don't take that option away from your customers. The more options the better!
And even to that...then disable being able to create exchange bids, then cancel them, and reclaim them on any toon. That alone would be another nail in the bot coffin.