Astral Seal and Prism

yizar · August 2015

I play now for about 2 and a half months and get all the time People moaning about AS or Prism would cause lag ? cause i not notice any lag at all no matter if AS and Prism up or not ? Yes heralds sometimes lag but they only seem to lag when there lots of instances doing em but not caused by AS or Prism.
So the question is does it really lag some People or do those just look for an excuse for their bad performance ?

looomis · August 2015

Yes. It lags people out. Thank you for asking

yizar · August 2015

For me it seems to be not those abilities that cause the lag it seems to be the Server cant handle it when more instances run heralds or Dragonflight event at same time.Same you can see right now for the Stronghold daily that needs you to complete 3 Quests of an certain zone the more instances up the more lag comes in.

drkbodhi · August 2015

There is video proof regarding the lag created by AS and by Prism... look them up.

yizar · August 2015

that video not proofs anything you could only test it proper if there would be only one instance up running no others but as long as there are more instance up running same bosses you cant proof anything

For me the lag is only there when there lots of instances run same bosses if its only 2 or 3 like in the morning no lag at all even if AS and prism used.The only places that lag i not figured out yet are sometimes Dungeons like Elol last boss or Etos last boss and MC but that i got told usually always lag was an slide show as i did it

yizar · August 2015

could be also people have HAMSTER PCs/conections that causes their lags also wrong settings could cause em all the time also depends what you have running in the background

instynctive · August 2015

I've never lagged due to Astral Seal. It's all a bunch of bullmalarky.

It's usually the spammed complaining in the /say channel that lags me out.

thefabricant · August 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VZLiio0o78

Of coarse, the lag is utter bs, completely made up.

adriaen666 · August 2015

AS seems to be fixed (got a cooldown) but Prism is still laggy.

wentris · August 2015

yizar wrote: »

I play now for about 2 and a half months and get all the time People moaning about AS or Prism would cause lag ? cause i not notice any lag at all no matter if AS and Prism up or not ? Yes heralds sometimes lag but they only seem to lag when there lots of instances doing em but not caused by AS or Prism.
So the question is does it really lag some People or do those just look for an excuse for their bad performance ?

Astral seal is 1 thing, Other thing is Vow of Enmity, that, on healing OP, works exactly as AS (or actually much worse, considering healing OP mechanics) and can be performed by single OP.

pokerbuttonce · September 2015

what spell or ability is prism exactly?

thefabricant · September 2015

Its a feat in the justice path. Look in my signature for an in depth explanation in my pally guide.

lupisu · September 2015

AS ticks 1 per 4 seconds times the number of players attacking the target. I'm hard put to believe that generates enough datastream to cause lag. Other than by being a source of heals for other abilities that transform any and all incoming healing into lag that is.

drkbodhi · September 2015

There is a specific build that lags when they use Prism... not all of them lag while using it.

I ran eToS a few days ago with a guildie, who is an amazing Tankadin, and a legit member... also amazing. I run all the time with the tank... so I know I can do well with him there. However... the tank and I talked about this after... the healadin's build was such that it was causing all kinds of lag for me.

What would have been a usual and easy 75 million damage on the run... ended up being less than 1/3 of that. The tank asked me what was up, since he knows that my numbers are always very solid in there. I told him I was fighting backwards for most of the fights... and when I wasn't... I was rubber-banding all over the place.

BTW... both were using Prism... and the tank always uses Prism... it never lags for me. There is another pally tank I run with who only occasionally I will lag with when he uses Prism. Not all the time... just every once in a while.

The same thing goes for Astral Seal... I often run with a guild DC and he runs AS... with no lag. When I group with other players... and they use AS, it is a dice throw whether or not I will lag.

darkstarcrash · September 2015

Ask your friends if they have the boon "Burning Guidance". That combined with Astral Seal/Prism causes loops of damage on all the mobs as well as healing on all players.

I specced out of Burning Guidance on my DC -- at quite a loss of personal dps -- and I never got complaints about causing lag after that.

mmm1001 · September 2015

Both Prism and AS cause significant lag if there are lots of people affected by them. In normal 5 people party they are OK. There are other thing causing lag too, unfortunately they are not so obvious and people still use them.
Anyway Avoid using them if you run dragon heralrs or tiamat and it is OK. If you use them (especially like some people doing it on purpose - mostly because they are idiots), people will hate you and refuse to play any other content with you. Choice is yours.

dragoness10 · September 2015

yizar said:
I play now for about 2 and a half months and get all the time People moaning about AS or Prism would cause lag ? cause i not notice any lag at all no matter if AS and Prism up or not ? Yes heralds sometimes lag but they only seem to lag when there lots of instances doing em but not caused by AS or Prism.

So the question is does it really lag some People or do those just look for an excuse for their bad performance ?

Smokebomb is worse with the particle effects. Real ninjas don't need smoke bombs. They don't help as much as people like to envision they do anyhow. You're better off with higher DPS powers that definately work.

Brought to by Rogues For Cleric and Paladin Back Up. "We like heals"

thefabricant · September 2015

dragoness10 said:

yizar said:
I play now for about 2 and a half months and get all the time People moaning about AS or Prism would cause lag ? cause i not notice any lag at all no matter if AS and Prism up or not ? Yes heralds sometimes lag but they only seem to lag when there lots of instances doing em but not caused by AS or Prism.

So the question is does it really lag some People or do those just look for an excuse for their bad performance ?
Smokebomb is worse with the particle effects. Real ninjas don't need smoke bombs. They don't help as much as people like to envision they do anyhow. You're better off with higher DPS powers that definately work.

Brought to by Rogues For Cleric and Paladin Back Up. "We like heals"

Tbh, its prism, burning guidance, bond of virtue and vow of enmity on a dev pally that causes the lag, but people like to blame on a single thing instead of looking at the whole issue. In comparison with that combo, the particle effects on your tr from smokebomb do nothing. As long as you not spamming that combo in tiamat or any group larger then 5 though, you fine. The moment the group size exceeds 5, you really should not activate your daily power. If anyone doubts or denies that these abilities cause lag, they can either look at isaac's videos of the lag, or he/I can demonstrate in a controlled environment. Its better for people to actually blame the source of the lag though, rather then other things.

wentris · September 2015

dragoness10 said:

yizar said:
I play now for about 2 and a half months and get all the time People moaning about AS or Prism would cause lag ? cause i not notice any lag at all no matter if AS and Prism up or not ? Yes heralds sometimes lag but they only seem to lag when there lots of instances doing em but not caused by AS or Prism.

So the question is does it really lag some People or do those just look for an excuse for their bad performance ?
Smokebomb is worse with the particle effects. Real ninjas don't need smoke bombs. They don't help as much as people like to envision they do anyhow. You're better off with higher DPS powers that definately work.

Brought to by Rogues For Cleric and Paladin Back Up. "We like heals"

Higher dps powers like what? Smoke bomb is your highest dps AoE power. Its so powerful I use it even vs single targets, unless they are very mobile (like Valindra).

hedgebet · September 2015

A bit of of sidetrack here but along similar lines. I have noticed that even in domination and without others around there is something that some OP generate that causes a "lag like" effect to me. It is almost like a rapid instantaneous stun (and by rapid I mean every .25 to .5 seconds or so) and it will cause my characters to do a sort of animation skip/warp along a path. It could be one of those odd issues like where the HR "forest meditation" will change the FoV for all other players in a large area or where TR "courage breaker" will cause odd animation distortions for all other characters in an area. I have reported both of these bugs (the HR one as far back as the very early days of the HR) and still they were never resolved.

handofdonk · September 2015

I remember seeing something on one of the forums, more of a workaround than a solution, I suspect. This was to go into Options and to turn off power name floaters, as an overabundance of them allegedly contributes to lag as well. I believe that I've seen this happen, but I wonder to what extent it's a contributing factor.

Anyone got any bright ideas as to where *exactly* in the cycle mentioned by thefabricant* this bottleneck occurs and how we could demonstrate, and/or possibly work to alleviate it

*The utterly lovely Devotion OP feedback loop.

Is it happening clientside, serverside, or a combination of both?

Just throwing ideas out there, looking for some clarification

hedgebet · September 2015

In my case I have everything turned off but did not do that for performance reasons as my system is very high end. I did it simply because all the flash of numbers and name floaters served only to obfuscate and clutter and had no value or real entertainment quality in its overabundant usage.

thefabricant · September 2015

handofdonk said:
I remember seeing something on one of the forums, more of a workaround than a solution, I suspect. This was to go into Options and to turn off power name floaters, as an overabundance of them allegedly contributes to lag as well. I believe that I've seen this happen, but I wonder to what extent it's a contributing factor.

Anyone got any bright ideas as to where *exactly* in the cycle mentioned by thefabricant* this bottleneck occurs and how we could demonstrate, and/or possibly work to alleviate it

*The utterly lovely Devotion OP feedback loop.

Is it happening clientside, serverside, or a combination of both?

Just throwing ideas out there, looking for some clarification

A piece of terminology I am using here to explain stuff is an attempted heal, To clarify this, basically, the way it works is whenever the game interprets the attempt of someone being healed, irrespective of whether they are actually being healed, it does something as a result.

To explain it, this is what happens:
1) The devotion paladin throws vow of enmity onto a target, lets use one of the heads of tiamat as an example here.
2) Every time someone damages the head, vow of enmity attempts to heal all 25 people who are attacking the head.
3) The devotion paladin has prism active, so every time the game attempts to heal the paladin, it then attempts to heal all 25 people in the instance.
4) Bond of virtue is active, every time the game attempts to heal someone within the bond, the bond then attempts to heal everyone else.
5) The paladin has burning guidance, which deals 2k damage to all nearby enemies whenever a target is healed......

So, 25 people hit the head, thats 25 heals and a potential 25 burning guidance procs.
Bond of virtue shares those heals among everyone, so thats 25*25 heals, or a potential of 5^4 burning guidance procs.
There are now 25 heals hitting the devotion paladin, this procs prism 25 times, attempting to heal everyone around as a result 25 times, adding another 25*25 heals, so we have 2*5^4 potential burning guidance procs.
Lets say half of those proc burning guidance, so 2000*5^4*(whatever damage multipliers are on the boss) damage gets dealt to the boss.
Vow of enmity now gets procced 5^4 times.........

You see the loop?

fatguns · September 2015

thefabricant said:

Of coarse, the lag is utter bs, completely made up.

You dont imagine how much herald runs you ruined for other people if you ran with prism.

thefabricant · September 2015

fatguns said:

thefabricant said:

Of coarse, the lag is utter bs, completely made up.
You dont imagine how much herald runs you ruined for other people if you ran with prism.

I don't do herald runs or tiamat runs, this was a once off thing, as a demonstration, as I am aware of the lag it generates and so is isaac. You will not find either of us ruining your day and lagging your instance, we do try to spread awareness of the problem as well so that the issue gets mitigated. If you read my posts, or my guide for paladin, I explain quite clearly what the issue is and my stance always remains the same. Do not go into content that involves more then 5 people, if you are using a build that takes advantage of prism and BG.

darkstarcrash · September 2015

thefabricant said:

I don't do herald runs or tiamat runs, this was a once off thing, as a demonstration, as I am aware of the lag it generates and so is isaac. You will not find either of us ruining your day and lagging your instance, we do try to spread awareness of the problem as well so that the issue gets mitigated. If you read my posts, or my guide for paladin, I explain quite clearly what the issue is and my stance always remains the same. Do not go into content that involves more then 5 people, if you are using a build that takes advantage of prism and BG.

Do you really mean you should never run Tiamat if you are a justice-specced devotion paladin?

How about just not using your daily, thus not proccing Prism?

Is it enough to not take Burning Guidance, or is Vow+Bond of Virtue still going to overload the instance if you use a daily?

I like my devotion paladin, and so far I've avoided taking Burning Guidance. I've also never run Tiamat with him, more because I find defeats due to campfire-sitters soul-crushing, but I've wondered where the line is that lets a devotion paladin be useful rather than harmful in large-group content.

thefabricant · September 2015

darkstarcrash said:

thefabricant said:

I don't do herald runs or tiamat runs, this was a once off thing, as a demonstration, as I am aware of the lag it generates and so is isaac. You will not find either of us ruining your day and lagging your instance, we do try to spread awareness of the problem as well so that the issue gets mitigated. If you read my posts, or my guide for paladin, I explain quite clearly what the issue is and my stance always remains the same. Do not go into content that involves more then 5 people, if you are using a build that takes advantage of prism and BG.
Do you really mean you should never run Tiamat if you are a justice-specced devotion paladin?

How about just not using your daily, thus not proccing Prism?

Is it enough to not take Burning Guidance, or is Vow+Bond of Virtue still going to overload the instance if you use a daily?

I like my devotion paladin, and so far I've avoided taking Burning Guidance. I've also never run Tiamat with him, more because I find defeats due to campfire-sitters soul-crushing, but I've wondered where the line is that lets a devotion paladin be useful rather than harmful in large-group content.

Its fine if you go in and never use your daily, on the condition that you don't have BG.

thefabricant · September 2015

defiantone99 said:
I spec'd my Pali to the BY THE LIGHT build and took burning guidance and got a healer companion to proc Prism. Can't wait to get it geared to do the SH dragons and see if I can lag my guild out.lol Seeing the whole screen covered with the words prism and burning guidance in IWD was wild.

So long as the people you are doing it with are ok with what you doing and you aren't upsetting anyone, it is amusing

bkt5789 · October 2015

I wouldn't use your daily in well of dragons or Tiamat. I'm using fabricants by the light build and my guild loves it. It's made dungeons a bit easier and everyone overall is happier with me. I'm not tipping the damage charts yet with the build but that isn't my total goal either. I'm happy that I can heal while dealing damage and alleviate the pressure on everyone to deal more dps - I'm carried less, and everyone is surviving better. But that is a five man instance. In those big things, I told my guild I cannot use my daily due to the lag it would cause, and I showed them. We all laughed hysterically about it, but agreed it's best to complete dragons and Tiamat and not lag die. (Lag usually ends when the paladin who is generating tons of threats dies, but normally everyone else does too which is funny) I play on the Xbox which with every update is becoming closer and closer to the pc version.

Astral seal in mod 5 was causing 4 second lag in Tiamat and only in tiamat - it didn't seem to be an issue in well of dragons. since the rework I found astral seal to be very unwhelming compared to its former glory and went dps cleric to level then gift of hast cleric which made dungeons with prot Paladins a cake walk. Sadly it was boring and being a battery meant I couldn't do my daily quests alone ever. So I made a dev op as my main instead, and seek to build my own action point gain high enough so that I would not need a cleric to buff me with gift of haste, t inflict the torture of boredom that being a battery cleric was is not something I wanna do to anyone, and I'd rather the debugging dps cleric in my party, not a full support. I encourage anyone I know playing a full support character to possibly reroll because it's a thankless job, annoying, and boring. There has to be a good reason why I can't find a good detailed current guide written on clerics.

But really? I only wanna use my prism in dungeons. Anywhere else it's just not needed as the bond and vow is good enough. I still proc tons of burning guidance with just that.

urabask · October 2015

bkt5789 said:
I wouldn't use your daily in well of dragons or Tiamat. I'm using fabricants by the light build and my guild loves it. It's made dungeons a bit easier and everyone overall is happier with me. I'm not tipping the damage charts yet with the build but that isn't my total goal either. I'm happy that I can heal while dealing damage and alleviate the pressure on everyone to deal more dps - I'm carried less, and everyone is surviving better. But that is a five man instance. In those big things, I told my guild I cannot use my daily due to the lag it would cause, and I showed them. We all laughed hysterically about it, but agreed it's best to complete dragons and Tiamat and not lag die. (Lag usually ends when the paladin who is generating tons of threats dies, but normally everyone else does too which is funny) I play on the Xbox which with every update is becoming closer and closer to the pc version.

Astral seal in mod 5 was causing 4 second lag in Tiamat and only in tiamat - it didn't seem to be an issue in well of dragons. since the rework I found astral seal to be very unwhelming compared to its former glory and went dps cleric to level then gift of hast cleric which made dungeons with prot Paladins a cake walk. Sadly it was boring and being a battery meant I couldn't do my daily quests alone ever. So I made a dev op as my main instead, and seek to build my own action point gain high enough so that I would not need a cleric to buff me with gift of haste, t inflict the torture of boredom that being a battery cleric was is not something I wanna do to anyone, and I'd rather the debugging dps cleric in my party, not a full support. I encourage anyone I know playing a full support character to possibly reroll because it's a thankless job, annoying, and boring. There has to be a good reason why I can't find a good detailed current guide written on clerics.

But really? I only wanna use my prism in dungeons. Anywhere else it's just not needed as the bond and vow is good enough. I still proc tons of burning guidance with just that.

T_T

I wish more OPs would do this.

I've had them tell me that it's my CW's spell twisting that's causing the lag on my end. And that I need to get a better CPU like his i7-5930K (wooo spending $600 on your CPU to play MMOs). Meanwhile I've been in runs where we've taken out green in less than a minute (because OPs didn't have time to pop their dailies before it was down) and then struggle all the way to white and miss black because OPs are spamming dailies we don't need.

bkt5789 · October 2015

I dunno if it's client side or server side - but I wish they would fix the server or client so that no changes to any skills had to be made and that everyone can be over powered in their own right and do crazy HAMSTER within their class. Otherwise it's just not fun, most the fun in the game is becoming godly. Nerf that and you nerf the fun factor. I want astral seal turned back to normal, I want spell storm turned back to normal...

Anyway if it is client side they should recommend a specific set up. Sadly I'm on Xbox so it's all uniform and HAMSTER. Neverwinter on pc must be a much smoother experience. I dunno if I can transfer over though when I finally build a pc.

Astral Seal and Prism

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