So bots can now adjust their scripts to check for rare AD tasks once an hour and concentrate on running those?
Bots will happily take advantage of that and have a constant AD income from Leadership which no legit player can compete with.
Well, now I'm even less inclined to believe the anti-bot talk.
If we find that this is what happens we will make adjustments accordingly. Previous data showed these tasks were not previously used as a significant portion of AD.
LOL you said that the data you collected after removing leadership from the gateway showed no increase in bot activity...This is BU%$S#$% I have spent $1000s of dollars investing in this game let alone leadership. Now I will have 0 way to earn AD as I don't do pve and only pvp. I'm done with your game. You are saying it's because of bots. That is clearly a lie as you already said their was no increase in bot activity weeks ago when you removed it from the gateway.
How are we supposed to get AD from running Dungeons when you only get 1 Key a day and have to pay 5k AD for the second? This leave 2,200 out of the 7,200AD you have so generously left us.
It also means running the dungeons more that 2 times a day is a waste of time unless you get lucky and get drops from the bosses as there is no profit in opening a chest for a 5k Key and getting 3-4k AD back. Again you are removing content from us by making the dungeons COST us AD to run them. How is this helpful please?
I don't know if this is the best place to post this idea.
Leadership tasks get their AD replaced be a new kind of seal like "Seal of the leader" (or item if its easier), then when you play the game (dungeons, skirmishes, pvp, etc.) you get another kind of seal like "Seal of the adventurer" (or item if its easier). Then you go to a Vendor NPC who changes those seals by RAD , obviously the vendor ask for both. Example: -Battle Elemental Cultist gives 20 seals of the leader. -T1 Dungeon gives 1 token of the adventurer. -The vendor changes 20 seals of the leader + 1 token of the adventurer for 2000 RAD.
The numbers are invented, just to show the idea.
Another good thing is that you can put different rewards at this vendor, like Stronghold vouchers (as obsidiancran3 proposed), companion upgrade tokens, and so on.
A more aggressive approach to kill the bots is removing the Auction House and the player to player trade, and everything is bound to account. If you don't want to completely kill the Auction House and trade because the Zen Shop, then you can make it so that it can be traded one time and the buyer receives it bound to account. With this aggressive approach only account sellers would survive and they should be easier to spot and ban. This is very aggressive but it worked for other games (no name given as I don't know if it goes against the Rules).
Most of Bots dont use leadership for AD, stupid Devs & Designers.
Our current data has not found this to be the case at this time. Please keep comments constructive and positive.
There are two kinds of bots.
1. Bots that do anything for AD to sell on third party sites but does not actually play the game themselves. Only here to make IRL money.
2. Real players playing the game but has no way to gain AD that sometimes uses the only solution in-hand. In this case it was a script that auto managed the leadership on several characters. Sure, some players might have over done it with 50+ characters but I think most of the players only had enough to have a real chance to progress in the game.
What you are doing is to taking away the players AD without doing something about the core problem this game has. THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE/FARM AD. I don't care that you now can make 750 AD running a dungeon. How does that pay for a mount or enchant that cost millions of AD? Or even a Gmark? This games economy is so broken and you are only making it worse for the PLAYERS. You took away OUR solution without adding your own.
its needs a major increase if you are to get to level 70 with just 192 tasks (my calculation ~12000 xp per task = 2304000 xp not enough for 10 levels which needs 6174600 ?)
i have a suggestion for leadership to, reward some seals of elements and seals of the protector
if not noticed 'bots' sell vast amounts of enchantments on the auction house, why not limit the amount of items you can sell a day per account and have a RAD limit per day per account, and also have a bank slot for AD
Our current data has not found this to be the case at this time. Please keep comments constructive and positive.
How about keeping patches constructive and positive, there are things that have been around for years, literally, that have not been fixed, yet the VIP system was released and a lot of Zen was spent on it instead of real money. This is the real reason for the AD being taken out of leadership. If the reason was so that we would play the dungeons more then you would have released the dungeons back into the game. By the way how effing long does it take to redo one dungeon at a time, shouldn't there have been at least one put back in by now?
Most of Bots dont use leadership for AD, stupid Devs & Designers.
Our current data has not found this to be the case at this time. Please keep comments constructive and positive.
My problem to understand this change is that there are method to prevent leadership boting. One method i suggested was to lock the RAD in chests and aquire chestkeys with seals from dungeons. Problem solved.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Is it possible for Leadership tasks to get AD Coffers for Strongholds to replace actual AD? The Strongholds AD requirements were fine when Leadership produced AD, now they are overwhelming in their requirements given that you have largely removed access to AD for many players. This would also make the time we invested in levelling Leadership valuable for those of us who did so.
That is an interesting suggestion, I will forward it along.
That'd be great. Otherwise I'd like to know how we are supposed to get the immense amount of AD required for the stronghold? Now that the income of most players will be greatly reduced everyone will face the dilemma:
1) Do I spend AD for my immediate character progression? 2) Do I spend AD for progression of the stronghold.
While 1) cannot be taken away and has an immediate effect 2) can be lost if the guild dies or one gets kicked.
Why not go further and let Leadership tasks generate campaign vouchers? It's like sending our troops to the different campaign areas. As a reward they get vouchers we can use to advance the stronghold. Would add additional value to Leadership and help take the pressure from building the stronghold.
and where exatly are the sw changes???? forgot there are a pvp update next week??? will sw suffer another mod?? or should we just leave the sw and also the game?
Thought I would chime in a bit about the AD changes. As a very casual player with very limited time to play during a given week and VERY limited finances, the AD from leadership through the gateway was a major source of income to me.
I fully understand why you have removed them from the gateway as it was far too easy to setup bots to take advantage of the changes. While this was painful to me I simply log on before each day and kick off my leadership tasks and then collect them when I am back home. Now that is being removed as well. Again, I can see why as botters can once again quite easily do this on their massive armies.
It was stated that AD was to be a reward for playing the game. Fine with that as well. When I do get time to play, I solo most of the time and I understand that this may be a rather small niche of players that are like myself and that many players can and do log on for extended periods of time and are able to get into queues for dungeon and skirmishes, etc. The new ways of earning AD are excellent for them. Play the dungeons, skirmishes and (gag, LOL) PvP (not a big PvPer) and you get AD. Kudos to the devs for coming up with that solution.
However, I may only have 1 hour to play each evening (again I understand that I may be in a small niche) and I usually spend that hour running the Stronghold quests so I can contribute to my guild. No time for dungeons, skirmishes, PvP, no time even for the current events that reward AD, but that is my choice. On the weekends I generally end up with a few more hours and that is when I run the dailies, maybe a skirmish or dungeon. If AD is truly a reward for playing the game, then how does someone in my position, earn AD? I play, so should I not get something for the effort? At least a little something?
Couple of suggestions:
Reward a small amount of AD (200 - 500) or a voucher or something for completing level appropriate daily quests. Not sure about the sophistication of the bots, but hopefully they can't easily get the dailies and run them automatically. By my rough estimation there are approximately 30 or so dailies, that I can run at level 70. That would translate to about 6K - 15K RAD per day, then you add in the dungeon, skirmish, PvP AD and you have a reasonable hope, if you invest the time, in getting the 24K AD cap each day. This would, IMO, help to alleviate some of the pain of taking away all the sources of AD and still meet the stated objective of rewarding players for playing the game. Should help to thwart the botters as well.
One of the ways that botters get their AD to the player is via the AH. They have the player list an inexpensive item at an exorbitant price and then they buy it. My suggestion, limit the amount that a given object can be listed for on the AH. This will at least make it more painful for the botters to get their product out. If someone lists a Treasure item for 3M AD then this is an indication that they are doing something shady, as no one would legitimately buy the item for that amount. I would suggest examining the iLvl or something and determining a max range for the item. Of course BiS and like items could have no top range. Now in order to get a lot of AD, the player who has purchased the AD from the botter, must give up a high end item (which is what they are generally buying the AD for) or deal with hundreds of small auctions. The hundred small auctions should be easily detectable by you, much easier than trying to catch one low worth item with a huge price tag.
Thanks for listening,
Vaitrex
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matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
My problem to understand this change is that there are method to prevent leadership boting. One method i suggested was to lock the RAD in chests and aquire chestkeys with seals from dungeons. Problem solved.
Such a clever suggestion. At LAST panderus & co, make a decision and REWARD all those who skillfully finish dungeons by using this clever solution. Bots CANNOT finish a boss fight or other hard miniboss fights. Eliminate the exploitable boss fights like in Epic Cragmire (such a disgrace btw) and MAKE THE GAME REWARD those who ACTUALLY play it. REWARD MORE THOSE WHO FINISH T2s dungeons (LEGIT of course though i shouldnt even say this, such a humiliation for DnD dungeons...). I still havent figured out why Cryptic makes these decisions BUT you CANNOT demand from people who actually care and play almost in a daily basis to GRIND THE SAME 6 FRIGGIN DUNGEONS who are almost over 2 years old for 24k ad and a miniscule chance for an artifact which you ALSO SO WRONGLY offer from lockboxes. Who in the name of reason makes these decisions? You want the Valindra Artifact? PLAY VT. You want the Lostmauth arti? PLAY Epic LOL. Thats how you avoid transforming EPIC dungeons into a BORING GRIND. By making them drop UNIQUE EPIC ITEMS. Why u punish people who actively invest their PRECIOUS time in this game? Balance out the game, its so easy, and THEN AND ONLY THEN you can expect people to PAY REAL MONEY when you ask them to through ZEN store offers, fashion items and other cleverly designed PURCHASES that makes the game even more beautiful and DnD themed. Lastly your biggest mistake imo. Instead of investing into making NEW, EPIC, CLEVERLY DESIGNED DUNGEONS WITH CLEVERLY DESIGNED and possibly RANDOMIZED BOSS FIGHTS, you invested so much time and money to introduce a pitiful COPY of League of Legends into Neverwinter which is a DnD original franchise game. You had (and maybe still have) a HUGE PVP player base and you COULDNT give them a couple of new maps to eat their brains out, or introduce different PVP playstyles like CTF. And for so many months since early spring, you REDUCED the already decadent PVE content to ashes, by offering the same old dungeons "renewed" but still the same, with NO LOOT for over half a year now which made us wanna lobotomize our selves when we see for the millionth time the SAME OLD unskippable videos. And now all this time is lost, it was invested into the LoL PVP copypaste. And instead of focusing into new, refreshing PVE content, you are going to give us back the rest of the SAME OLD dungeons which we might missed but we definetely DONT WANNA GRIND FOR ANOTHER YEAR, SHOW SOME MERCY OH PRETTY PLEASE. The only thing that might save the day would be to FINALLY bring back BoE loot from DUNGEONS, its the ONLY THING that kept this game going from the start and your incompetent game surgeons removed it.
how about introducing some hidden bosses in the dungeon which can be encountered at a certain % rate and some mech is needed kill them or something like that. They can drop more AD/any other items helpful to level the SH/rare crafting items. This could alleviate some of the boredom of running dungeons and also provide some challenge to players.
Resolved an issue wherein collections stated that the quest "Weapons of the Guild" would become available at "Stronghold Rank 8." Collections now states that "Guild Hall rank 16" is required. The amount of investment required to unlock the quest itself has not been increased, the terminology has been changed for clarification.
Yea I have a issue with this statement right here
he amount of investment required to unlock the quest itself has not been increased
well it has been increased, from rank 8 to rank 16, that's a big increase and makes the statement seem false it has been advertised @ rank 8 for 2 months+ now, so I sure hope your not moving it to rank 16 b3ecause if you are your just going to succeed in making more people made because they will feel like they have been lied to for the past 2 months............
The quest has been available for a rank 16 Stronghold when they switched to a 20 ranks Stronghold. They just forgot to change the collection text. People have indeed been unintentionnaly lied to for 2 months.
Completely killing AD from Leadership at ranks 21-25 may be the most ignorant "solution" to the boting problem ever. I have already retired 1 toon from my play list as the volume of quests and activities was to tedious to maintain 4 active characters. Now with this change I may have to retire the rest as the professions made up for days and times when I could not get them all through the dailies + dungeons + pvp + ....... There are numerous other ways to catch and ban botters. This nerf hurts the casual players far more than the numerous cheaters out there violating your terms of use. You should reconsider this change seriously bofore you loose more player base than you already have. I have listened through three days of fear and complaining in guild and zone chats prior to the launch. I have seen the forum complaints. It seems like the player base is not being heard at all. I would be nice to have a means of crafting dragon flight keys other than buying them off the zen market as well.
After looking at the actual damage to the AD payouts in leadership I have a question. Can anyone tell me why I should even bother with leadership anymore? I've got a lot of ranks with a lot of toons and it doesn't seem like there's any reason to work on it anymore. Leadership always had useless gold payouts, weak refining items, low prof xp, and minimal real xp. The main reason most players did leadership in the first place was AD. My pally has like 14 ranks in leadership and now it looks like I'll be abandoning and avoiding what was allways my main, and favorite, profession. In fact I'm wondering if any profession is worth my time. I feel like I've been told "You might as well not log in unless you've got an hour, or four, to burn." Neverwinters FTP status has been further saddled with a way to steepen the the difference between paying and non-paying players. As well as further the gap between casual, single player versus environment players, and those who have the time, skill, and socialization capabilities for the group activities. All that being said I will still be playing Neverwinter. I won't be on as much though.
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losttraverserMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 26Arc User
so what im seeing is leadership is worthless now and astro diamonds are going through the roof good luck getting anything off the auction house anymore or selling anything on it
As the AD pool in the economy is drained prices in the AH will drop because no one will be able to buy anything at the astronomical prices.
As a person who doesn't have a lot of time for grinding zones for refining, nor for the painful grind through EE now, I had already changed most of my toons to using Leadership for Refining and XP with the AD as a bonus rather than the goal, so I am neutral about the change. I also only did Leadership 1x a day, I wasn't hitting the AD cap just by farming Leadership or anything like that.
Yes I am disappointed with the Leadership change, I could "turn on AD" when I needed it more than I needed refining stones etc. But I'm also not gutted or feeling overly put upon by the change, now it will take 4 days to earn 100k AD with my main and not 2 days using my Alts on Leadership, its not a big deal.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
If you want to keep the AP/stamina drain marks.. then put a cooldown on them!
Comments
It also means running the dungeons more that 2 times a day is a waste of time unless you get lucky and get drops from the bosses as there is no profit in opening a chest for a 5k Key and getting 3-4k AD back. Again you are removing content from us by making the dungeons COST us AD to run them. How is this helpful please?
I don't know if this is the best place to post this idea.
Leadership tasks get their AD replaced be a new kind of seal like "Seal of the leader" (or item if its easier), then when you play the game (dungeons, skirmishes, pvp, etc.) you get another kind of seal like "Seal of the adventurer" (or item if its easier).
Then you go to a Vendor NPC who changes those seals by RAD , obviously the vendor ask for both.
Example:
-Battle Elemental Cultist gives 20 seals of the leader.
-T1 Dungeon gives 1 token of the adventurer.
-The vendor changes 20 seals of the leader + 1 token of the adventurer for 2000 RAD.
The numbers are invented, just to show the idea.
Another good thing is that you can put different rewards at this vendor, like Stronghold vouchers (as obsidiancran3 proposed), companion upgrade tokens, and so on.
A more aggressive approach to kill the bots is removing the Auction House and the player to player trade, and everything is bound to account.
If you don't want to completely kill the Auction House and trade because the Zen Shop, then you can make it so that it can be traded one time and the buyer receives it bound to account.
With this aggressive approach only account sellers would survive and they should be easier to spot and ban.
This is very aggressive but it worked for other games (no name given as I don't know if it goes against the Rules).
1. Bots that do anything for AD to sell on third party sites but does not actually play the game themselves. Only here to make IRL money.
2. Real players playing the game but has no way to gain AD that sometimes uses the only solution in-hand. In this case it was a script that auto managed the leadership on several characters. Sure, some players might have over done it with 50+ characters but I think most of the players only had enough to have a real chance to progress in the game.
What you are doing is to taking away the players AD without doing something about the core problem this game has. THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE/FARM AD. I don't care that you now can make 750 AD running a dungeon. How does that pay for a mount or enchant that cost millions of AD? Or even a Gmark? This games economy is so broken and you are only making it worse for the PLAYERS. You took away OUR solution without adding your own.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
its needs a major increase if you are to get to level 70 with just 192 tasks (my calculation ~12000 xp per task = 2304000 xp not enough for 10 levels which needs 6174600 ?)
i have a suggestion for leadership to, reward some seals of elements and seals of the protector
if not noticed 'bots' sell vast amounts of enchantments on the auction house,
why not limit the amount of items you can sell a day per account and have a RAD limit per day per account, and also have a bank slot for AD
How about keeping patches constructive and positive, there are things that have been around for years, literally, that have not been fixed, yet the VIP system was released and a lot of Zen was spent on it instead of real money. This is the real reason for the AD being taken out of leadership. If the reason was so that we would play the dungeons more then you would have released the dungeons back into the game. By the way how effing long does it take to redo one dungeon at a time, shouldn't there have been at least one put back in by now?
1) Do I spend AD for my immediate character progression?
2) Do I spend AD for progression of the stronghold.
While 1) cannot be taken away and has an immediate effect 2) can be lost if the guild dies or one gets kicked.
Why not go further and let Leadership tasks generate campaign vouchers? It's like sending our troops to the different campaign areas. As a reward they get vouchers we can use to advance the stronghold. Would add additional value to Leadership and help take the pressure from building the stronghold.
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/555246/bug-tenebrous-enchant-does-not-stack
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1193909/enchantment-tenebrous-not-working
Thought I would chime in a bit about the AD changes. As a very casual player with very limited time to play during a given week and VERY limited finances, the AD from leadership through the gateway was a major source of income to me.
I fully understand why you have removed them from the gateway as it was far too easy to setup bots to take advantage of the changes. While this was painful to me I simply log on before each day and kick off my leadership tasks and then collect them when I am back home. Now that is being removed as well. Again, I can see why as botters can once again quite easily do this on their massive armies.
It was stated that AD was to be a reward for playing the game. Fine with that as well. When I do get time to play, I solo most of the time and I understand that this may be a rather small niche of players that are like myself and that many players can and do log on for extended periods of time and are able to get into queues for dungeon and skirmishes, etc. The new ways of earning AD are excellent for them. Play the dungeons, skirmishes and (gag, LOL) PvP (not a big PvPer) and you get AD. Kudos to the devs for coming up with that solution.
However, I may only have 1 hour to play each evening (again I understand that I may be in a small niche) and I usually spend that hour running the Stronghold quests so I can contribute to my guild. No time for dungeons, skirmishes, PvP, no time even for the current events that reward AD, but that is my choice. On the weekends I generally end up with a few more hours and that is when I run the dailies, maybe a skirmish or dungeon. If AD is truly a reward for playing the game, then how does someone in my position, earn AD? I play, so should I not get something for the effort? At least a little something?
Couple of suggestions:
Reward a small amount of AD (200 - 500) or a voucher or something for completing level appropriate daily quests. Not sure about the sophistication of the bots, but hopefully they can't easily get the dailies and run them automatically. By my rough estimation there are approximately 30 or so dailies, that I can run at level 70. That would translate to about 6K - 15K RAD per day, then you add in the dungeon, skirmish, PvP AD and you have a reasonable hope, if you invest the time, in getting the 24K AD cap each day. This would, IMO, help to alleviate some of the pain of taking away all the sources of AD and still meet the stated objective of rewarding players for playing the game. Should help to thwart the botters as well.
One of the ways that botters get their AD to the player is via the AH. They have the player list an inexpensive item at an exorbitant price and then they buy it. My suggestion, limit the amount that a given object can be listed for on the AH. This will at least make it more painful for the botters to get their product out. If someone lists a Treasure item for 3M AD then this is an indication that they are doing something shady, as no one would legitimately buy the item for that amount. I would suggest examining the iLvl or something and determining a max range for the item. Of course BiS and like items could have no top range. Now in order to get a lot of AD, the player who has purchased the AD from the botter, must give up a high end item (which is what they are generally buying the AD for) or deal with hundreds of small auctions. The hundred small auctions should be easily detectable by you, much easier than trying to catch one low worth item with a huge price tag.
Thanks for listening,
Vaitrex
Why u punish people who actively invest their PRECIOUS time in this game? Balance out the game, its so easy, and THEN AND ONLY THEN you can expect people to PAY REAL MONEY when you ask them to through ZEN store offers, fashion items and other cleverly designed PURCHASES that makes the game even more beautiful and DnD themed.
Lastly your biggest mistake imo. Instead of investing into making NEW, EPIC, CLEVERLY DESIGNED DUNGEONS WITH CLEVERLY DESIGNED and possibly RANDOMIZED BOSS FIGHTS, you invested so much time and money to introduce a pitiful COPY of League of Legends into Neverwinter which is a DnD original franchise game. You had (and maybe still have) a HUGE PVP player base and you COULDNT give them a couple of new maps to eat their brains out, or introduce different PVP playstyles like CTF. And for so many months since early spring, you REDUCED the already decadent PVE content to ashes, by offering the same old dungeons "renewed" but still the same, with NO LOOT for over half a year now which made us wanna lobotomize our selves when we see for the millionth time the SAME OLD unskippable videos. And now all this time is lost, it was invested into the LoL PVP copypaste. And instead of focusing into new, refreshing PVE content, you are going to give us back the rest of the SAME OLD dungeons which we might missed but we definetely DONT WANNA GRIND FOR ANOTHER YEAR, SHOW SOME MERCY OH PRETTY PLEASE. The only thing that might save the day would be to FINALLY bring back BoE loot from DUNGEONS, its the ONLY THING that kept this game going from the start and your incompetent game surgeons removed it.
Frustrated but still enchanted
But really pre-change 16 rare tasks gave RAD now only 3 do. 3/16 * 100 = 18.75%
I am sure glad I don't live in your "majority".
People have indeed been unintentionnaly lied to for 2 months.
I would be nice to have a means of crafting dragon flight keys other than buying them off the zen market as well.
As a person who doesn't have a lot of time for grinding zones for refining, nor for the painful grind through EE now, I had already changed most of my toons to using Leadership for Refining and XP with the AD as a bonus rather than the goal, so I am neutral about the change. I also only did Leadership 1x a day, I wasn't hitting the AD cap just by farming Leadership or anything like that.
Yes I am disappointed with the Leadership change, I could "turn on AD" when I needed it more than I needed refining stones etc. But I'm also not gutted or feeling overly put upon by the change, now it will take 4 days to earn 100k AD with my main and not 2 days using my Alts on Leadership, its not a big deal.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
It seems only three rare level 20 tasks kept their AD. Am I missing something?
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.