The 5 BiS geared players go solo queue and magic! Now there are enough players to split them and obtain a...
BALANCED MATCH!! With BiS players splitted in 2 teams instead of a BiS premade smashing a random pug!
I mostly solo queue. I don't really do 5 man teams because I'm a scrub. What you are suggesting is that we never group up because we may get pugs. You think we want pugs? Not fun for either side when the match is over in a minute and you play the waiting game, I get that. Fighting other teams with my team is the most fun this game has to offer for me. When I solo queue and have to face premades I don't cry about it in forums and complain about the premade ruining my fun. I don't complain to the premade that they are P2W and only want to kill pugs either. I offer 1v1s. Everyone has the right to pvp the way they want to. I rarely face a premade when I solo as well. Kind of hard to have sympathy when the same things happen to me when I pvp.
You can't really divide whales from pugs, a 3k+ bracket would have absurd queue times, even in solo queue.
So it's, i guess, unavoidable to mix BiS PvPers with pugs.
But the quite simple solution is, that the games that COUNT for NCL are only the ones where you solo queue
Solo queueing in the NCL was one of the best ways to move up in the leader board. When you group up, not even a 5 man team, and face pugs, you go down in the pages for some absurd reason.
...winners got really good rewards - any mount they wanted and a pack from zen market (warlock's or another one, don't remember its name). We also had top 300 players, who got 80% mount (season 1 and 3) and aranea (season 2). And here it is more charity-like. Probably some BiS PVP players didn't even bother to get into top 40. Thar's why I said that NCL was a nice, but not serious event.
At least make BIS geared premades fight other BIS geared enemies instead of random pugs wiho often dont even have tenacity.
If matchmaking cannot find proper enemies for BIS geared premade and it matches them vs pugs, dont take away rating from those steamrolled PUG's, because they had no chance in the first place. Perhaps this way players will get upset less.
0
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
I remember looking after one particular PugStomping... that I dropped in rank over 30 pages. I only experienced 3 to 5 of them out of 150 matches.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
seems to me or pvp guilds just merged into one guild? what a shame. This is how power greed and hungryness works. congratulations. So all nice words about " report these members who exploit and abuse" go to hell. No competition, no honor, no sport, no pvp. greed and farming rules. congratulations to all involved, you are true heroes of this game
I went from page 22 to 96 in a single day because our PUG team faced guild premades with the the best gear available.
The average player in our group had 2k item level. It took 45 seconds, after everyone wiped in mid node, they all gave up and we sat by the campfire. Repeat the process 4 more time and you have my pvp experience of the day.
Leaderboard is a solo ranking.
Game outcome is group oriented.
Why is the leaderboard's most important stat (which is winning or losing) out of your control when you do PuG. You can be an awesome player contribute to 90% of the game on your own but lose and you go down in ranking because your team was bad. No offence to new players or those who just aren't good in pvp, but the way leaderboards are made it's very frustrating to lose and go down in rank because your team decided to wait at the campfire after getting farmed by a guild premade.
So in all respects leaderboards status is luck based, not skill based. Because a good player with bad teams has low ranking, and a bad player with good teams has a good ranking. And a player unlucky (disregard skill completely) facing a team with twice the amount of gear that they have is simply doomed to fail.
If you want to have truely representative stats, make it by solo performance oriented, or change the rankings to group based, which I honestly have no idea how you could make this work so option one really.
That's my two cents, I love pvp, but leaderboards turn me off so bad I did aproximately 15 matches in the whole season because I was scared that getting bad teams would lower my ranking. There you have it
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
I went from page 22 to 96 in a single day because our PUG team faced guild premades with the the best gear available.
The average player in our group had 2k item level. It took 45 seconds, after everyone wiped in mid node, they all gave up and we sat by the campfire. Repeat the process 4 more time and you have my pvp experience of the day.
Leaderboard is a solo ranking.
Game outcome is group oriented.
Why is the leaderboard's most important stat (which is winning or losing) out of your control when you do PuG. You can be an awesome player contribute to 90% of the game on your own but lose and you go down in ranking because your team was bad. No offence to new players or those who just aren't good in pvp, but the way leaderboards are made it's very frustrating to lose and go down in rank because your team decided to wait at the campfire after getting farmed by a guild premade.
So in all respects leaderboards status is luck based, not skill based. Because a good player with bad teams has low ranking, and a bad player with good teams has a good ranking. And a player unlucky (disregard skill completely) facing a team with twice the amount of gear that they have is simply doomed to fail.
If you want to have truely representative stats, make it by solo performance oriented, or change the rankings to group based, which I honestly have no idea how you could make this work so option one really.
That's my two cents, I love pvp, but leaderboards turn me off so bad I did aproximately 15 matches in the whole season because I was scared that getting bad teams would lower my ranking. There you have it
in better words - if you pug, once upon a time everybody has serie of bad matches. if you premade, you never get serie of bad matches. and about premade is top 1000
0
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
I went from page 22 to 96 in a single day because our PUG team faced guild premades with the the best gear available.
The average player in our group had 2k item level. It took 45 seconds, after everyone wiped in mid node, they all gave up and we sat by the campfire. Repeat the process 4 more time and you have my pvp experience of the day.
Leaderboard is a solo ranking.
Game outcome is group oriented.
Why is the leaderboard's most important stat (which is winning or losing) out of your control when you do PuG. You can be an awesome player contribute to 90% of the game on your own but lose and you go down in ranking because your team was bad. No offence to new players or those who just aren't good in pvp, but the way leaderboards are made it's very frustrating to lose and go down in rank because your team decided to wait at the campfire after getting farmed by a guild premade.
So in all respects leaderboards status is luck based, not skill based. Because a good player with bad teams has low ranking, and a bad player with good teams has a good ranking. And a player unlucky (disregard skill completely) facing a team with twice the amount of gear that they have is simply doomed to fail.
If you want to have truely representative stats, make it by solo performance oriented, or change the rankings to group based, which I honestly have no idea how you could make this work so option one really.
That's my two cents, I love pvp, but leaderboards turn me off so bad I did aproximately 15 matches in the whole season because I was scared that getting bad teams would lower my ranking. There you have it
You described most of my matches during the NCL. Scoring 8100 points, 13k, 2d and 36a... in a loss. I was on 20 amazing pugs that helped me win 20 in a row. I moved up about 600 pages from that. In my last week competing I went 45 and 20.
You also reiterated my exact thoughts on the Leaderboard... it should be based on individual work during a match and not based solely on Wins and Losses, Kills and Deaths. Until it is score based and a combination of kills and assists... there will be no truth found on any Leaderboard. There is no reason it should be based on Wins and Losses... because that is party related and not related to the individual efforts.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Well but individual performance only do not represent the thing either.
I moved up and got in a good place by sacrificing myself, coordinating my pugs, making them rotate, reading the battlefield and pursuing team benefit rather than my only benefit. Often turning the result thanks to what i told my pug buddies to do, and them doing it. You can sacrifice 3v1 on a node, or rotating to follow the strongest enemy to keep him occupied, let your team win, but have terribile score. And going by personal performance only well... would make you drop while other players go up thanks to your sacrifice.
What needs to be addressed is matchmaking, and class/ enchants balance.
I am just talking about going down in the pages because your team completely obliterates the other team when you queue as a trio or 5 man and get really bad pugs.
You cannot have system based on personal work, because that's exploitable and hard to score for the AI. For example, i could play Paladin tank and only use my daily to save myself, why? because if my teammates die i'll have better score in relation to them and i can slow their scoring speed. Hey, at least im first on the scoring list, so i must've done well while my team was doing very bad.
They could however make a system which grant 80% of total rating points for winning / losing and the rest 20% points based some in game actions, like reaching 600 points etc. This way you can reduce possibility of gambling the system while creating small difference between each player.
Also, keep in mind that losing your rank despite winning the match doesnt necessary mean that system is bad, because other players could also be playing a match in the same time and depending on their results they could've get more pointa than you.
My feedback is focusing on the item balancing, for example feytouched enchant, negation enchant, lostmauth set and so on.
Why is the item balancing so bad? If u check how the top ranked player use, u could immediately see it. Everyone uses the artifact set and OP enchants I mentioned. It makes character to character the same copy. Why premade vs pug is so bad? Not only because of the premade has better organization, it also because most of people in the premade are using these OP items.
For example I think even if feytouched only has half proc time 10 secs of 20, it is still one of the best weapon enchants out there, but it 100% time up now. Lostmauth has the similar mechanisms as the old storm spell and shadow oppotunity, and people reported long time ago. Nobody fix it.
Op items make a game one sided, unfair and boring. Because OP items are way more expensive on AH than similar level other items, not everybody can have it. It is kind of pay to win. I accept p2w in a sense for a free to play game, but not to the extent at the current state.
There should be slightly better items there not overpower out of control items there.
The new mounts sure will cause the new problem. I see the item balancing is the biggest problem in NCL. It makes NCL only a competitions in a handful of rich players. If u can tone down the overpowerness of items, skills, builds, and team organization will be gain weight in a game. And people could still pay to get some advantage but not as huge as now.
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
0
starheretic70Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
edited July 2015
never did 5v5 domination match before NCL Preseason, since the leaderboard reset at each mod upgrade, tell me how I got 25 more defeats in my leaderboard standing (after NCL Preseason) ? (yes it's a real question)
I crash 3 times in NCL Preseason (and did 2 ragequits that I assume totally) went down to page 85+/- from page 24, I had 125 wins and 47 defeats, since I'm a DC and dont have much kill/counts, so not many points .... I finish NCL Preason at page 40+/-
adjusting kill/counts for DC so (example)... 500k of healing can be scored like an assist
Many players are hitting good stats and stop playing to get a place.
you dont have a win per week (example) , you are remove from competition, too bad, it's a race, so run and fight.
you dont lost pages from crash (this is so dumb) ... if you ragequit, the other 4 players must have a tool to report you, so you can lose pages.
Remove all stun effects from everywhere : make HR a long lasting trapper master so target is more rooted. Even brake the spirit, we are here to play not do nothing and die.
Before everything else, adjust Oathbound Paladin ... I play DC and a strong CW and GF can kill me (with higher ilvl) , 2 players with same ilvl can kill me (if they got skills)... 3, 4, 5 players on a unkillable Paladin : bad pvp , bad game
My DC isnt immortal, I can survive a 8v1 against stupid players with no skills and no gear ... I die a lot versus very good and well geared players
beginning to care less and less for the game : adjust Paladin
With matchmaking and random disconnects ranking is without meaning..
I can be able to kill the enemy 1v1 or even 1v2, but with 4 PuG players on home, I will die 1v3 or 1v4 on mid or enemy node. Even if the enemy team is THAT bad and you can kill them 1v3, if they are not THAT stupid, they can sent one player to cap your point and control the other two points, bc your mates are even worse.
I lost games with 20+/1 or 2 K/D, while I ran from point to point, to contest, cap, while my mates fought off point and the enemy capped uncontested.
Many of the balanced matches are decided by disconnects, not skill or tactics, bc there is a high chance, that one of the players gets disconnected, if the match takes 45 minutes+.
Would be nice if there was a que just for premade guilds. Or a list of to the right showed how many people are in que waiting. Simple solution would be to have an in game arena. Kind of like IWD but only two groups of 5 could walk in and then a timer would go off to start match.
I would also like to see a pvp area where you can manipulate the npcs to your advantage not having them stuck to one spawn point in the area.
0
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Would be nice if there was a que just for premade guilds. Or a list of to the right showed how many people are in que waiting. Simple solution would be to have an in game arena. Kind of like IWD but only two groups of 5 could walk in and then a timer would go off to start match.
I would also like to see a pvp area where you can manipulate the npcs to your advantage not having them stuck to one spawn point in the area.
That would be nice Tald... but the separate queues would be much more feasible.
SH PvP, to a degree, has the NPC thing you are talking about.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Ok in Never winter night we ran pvp ladders. This is would have to be based on gear score and 1 on 1 matches. I be willing to hold the reports on my own on a website for posting. The way it would work is first we would need a sign of players willing to play. Second a list of class and gear score. A set of rules to follow. use of pots no pots no items that like cockatrice that root or holds so forth. Once on list. you have to send me and the player you want to fight. Once match complete we put you on the list . you can only fight up or down 1 rank of players. so this way you cant fight a pug with 1k gear and move up for an easy win. I been trying to get this going for a while and I think it time. Any thoughts.
Below is the history of the name. Most have no idea
I'm talking about before nwn 1990 through 1997 Crusaders of the realm was the first online guild. Strong hold I see a joke now. Nothing but more grinding and a waste of time. They don't have a clue when it come to pvp and really I believe they don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. This is a pvp game and it always going to be about how much money they can bring in period. My opinion or yours doesn't matter. Been here since pre beta. I like the game but not what it has become at all.
Gonna close this down as the devs are working on bringing the NCL back with all the feedback that was provided. I'll open it back up once the NCL comes back.
Call me Andy (or Strum, or Spider-Man)! Follow Neverwinter on Twitter: NeverwinterGame Like Neverwinter on Facebook: Neverwinter Follow me on Twitter: StrumSlinger
Comments
Those prizes do sound very motivating
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
────────────────────────────
If matchmaking cannot find proper enemies for BIS geared premade and it matches them vs pugs, dont take away rating from those steamrolled PUG's, because they had no chance in the first place. Perhaps this way players will get upset less.
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
────────────────────────────
The average player in our group had 2k item level. It took 45 seconds, after everyone wiped in mid node, they all gave up and we sat by the campfire. Repeat the process 4 more time and you have my pvp experience of the day.
Leaderboard is a solo ranking.
Game outcome is group oriented.
Why is the leaderboard's most important stat (which is winning or losing) out of your control when you do PuG. You can be an awesome player contribute to 90% of the game on your own but lose and you go down in ranking because your team was bad. No offence to new players or those who just aren't good in pvp, but the way leaderboards are made it's very frustrating to lose and go down in rank because your team decided to wait at the campfire after getting farmed by a guild premade.
So in all respects leaderboards status is luck based, not skill based. Because a good player with bad teams has low ranking, and a bad player with good teams has a good ranking. And a player unlucky (disregard skill completely) facing a team with twice the amount of gear that they have is simply doomed to fail.
If you want to have truely representative stats, make it by solo performance oriented, or change the rankings to group based, which I honestly have no idea how you could make this work so option one really.
That's my two cents, I love pvp, but leaderboards turn me off so bad I did aproximately 15 matches in the whole season because I was scared that getting bad teams would lower my ranking. There you have it
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
in better words - if you pug, once upon a time everybody has serie of bad matches. if you premade, you never get serie of bad matches. and about premade is top 1000
You described most of my matches during the NCL. Scoring 8100 points, 13k, 2d and 36a... in a loss. I was on 20 amazing pugs that helped me win 20 in a row. I moved up about 600 pages from that. In my last week competing I went 45 and 20.
You also reiterated my exact thoughts on the Leaderboard... it should be based on individual work during a match and not based solely on Wins and Losses, Kills and Deaths. Until it is score based and a combination of kills and assists... there will be no truth found on any Leaderboard. There is no reason it should be based on Wins and Losses... because that is party related and not related to the individual efforts.
I moved up and got in a good place by sacrificing myself, coordinating my pugs, making them rotate, reading the battlefield and pursuing team benefit rather than my only benefit. Often turning the result thanks to what i told my pug buddies to do, and them doing it. You can sacrifice 3v1 on a node, or rotating to follow the strongest enemy to keep him occupied, let your team win, but have terribile score. And going by personal performance only well... would make you drop while other players go up thanks to your sacrifice.
What needs to be addressed is matchmaking, and class/ enchants balance.
Class Count %Contrib
Control Wizard 186 22.54%
Trickster Rogue 253 21.42%
Hunter Ranger 100 13.68%
Devoted Cleric 118 12.64%
Oathbound Paladin 159 11.27%
Great Weapon Fighter 76 10.41%
Guardian Fighter 92 6.47%
Scourge Warlock 16 1.55%
Grand Total 1000 100.00%
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
────────────────────────────
Control Wizard 17.27% 5.04% 0.22% 0.00% 22.54%
Trickster Rogue 19.37% 2.03% 0.01% 0.01% 21.42%
Hunter Ranger 10.66% 2.91% 0.07% 0.04% 13.68%
Devoted Cleric 11.63% 0.98% 0.03% 12.64%
Oathbound Paladin 10.17% 1.10% 11.27%
Great Weapon Fighter 8.13% 2.27% 0.00% 10.41%
Guardian Fighter 4.73% 1.64% 0.10% 6.47%
Scourge Warlock 0.97% 0.58% 1.55%
Grand Total 82.94% 16.57% 0.44% 0.05% 100.00%
They could however make a system which grant 80% of total rating points for winning / losing and the rest 20% points based some in game actions, like reaching 600 points etc. This way you can reduce possibility of gambling the system while creating small difference between each player.
Also, keep in mind that losing your rank despite winning the match doesnt necessary mean that system is bad, because other players could also be playing a match in the same time and depending on their results they could've get more pointa than you.
Why is the item balancing so bad? If u check how the top ranked player use, u could immediately see it. Everyone uses the artifact set and OP enchants I mentioned. It makes character to character the same copy. Why premade vs pug is so bad? Not only because of the premade has better organization, it also because most of people in the premade are using these OP items.
For example I think even if feytouched only has half proc time 10 secs of 20, it is still one of the best weapon enchants out there, but it 100% time up now. Lostmauth has the similar mechanisms as the old storm spell and shadow oppotunity, and people reported long time ago. Nobody fix it.
Op items make a game one sided, unfair and boring. Because OP items are way more expensive on AH than similar level other items, not everybody can have it. It is kind of pay to win. I accept p2w in a sense for a free to play game, but not to the extent at the current state.
There should be slightly better items there not overpower out of control items there.
The new mounts sure will cause the new problem. I see the item balancing is the biggest problem in NCL. It makes NCL only a competitions in a handful of rich players. If u can tone down the overpowerness of items, skills, builds, and team organization will be gain weight in a game. And people could still pay to get some advantage but not as huge as now.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
I crash 3 times in NCL Preseason (and did 2 ragequits that I assume totally) went down to page 85+/- from page 24, I had 125 wins and 47 defeats, since I'm a DC and dont have much kill/counts, so not many points .... I finish NCL Preason at page 40+/-
adjusting kill/counts for DC so (example)... 500k of healing can be scored like an assist
Many players are hitting good stats and stop playing to get a place.
you dont have a win per week (example) , you are remove from competition, too bad, it's a race, so run and fight.
you dont lost pages from crash (this is so dumb) ... if you ragequit, the other 4 players must have a tool to report you, so you can lose pages.
Remove all stun effects from everywhere : make HR a long lasting trapper master so target is more rooted. Even brake the spirit, we are here to play not do nothing and die.
Before everything else, adjust Oathbound Paladin ... I play DC and a strong CW and GF can kill me (with higher ilvl) , 2 players with same ilvl can kill me (if they got skills)... 3, 4, 5 players on a unkillable Paladin : bad pvp , bad game
My DC isnt immortal, I can survive a 8v1 against stupid players with no skills and no gear ... I die a lot versus very good and well geared players
beginning to care less and less for the game : adjust Paladin
I can be able to kill the enemy 1v1 or even 1v2, but with 4 PuG players on home, I will die 1v3 or 1v4 on mid or enemy node. Even if the enemy team is THAT bad and you can kill them 1v3, if they are not THAT stupid, they can sent one player to cap your point and control the other two points, bc your mates are even worse.
I lost games with 20+/1 or 2 K/D, while I ran from point to point, to contest, cap, while my mates fought off point and the enemy capped uncontested.
Many of the balanced matches are decided by disconnects, not skill or tactics, bc there is a high chance, that one of the players gets disconnected, if the match takes 45 minutes+.
I would also like to see a pvp area where you can manipulate the npcs to your advantage not having them stuck to one spawn point in the area.
That would be nice Tald... but the separate queues would be much more feasible.
SH PvP, to a degree, has the NPC thing you are talking about.
Below is the history of the name. Most have no idea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(1991_video_game)
Thanks
Call me Andy (or Strum, or Spider-Man)!
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