People are talking about "hours", but it is a 20 minute timed raid. That means you get only 3 runs at the dragon heads. If you cannot down 2 heads to 25% in one run, then it becomes impossible to complete. Anyone against quitting is welcome to wait the full 20 minutes for the consolation prize, but why put down (or ban) anyone just because they can do simple math?
I agree with the band and it is unfair to the gamers who have worked hard to get their level 60 and can now play Tiamat and come into a raid with a bunch of quitters. This is not a good experience for them. If the play continues like this, they should make Tiamat an event that you can queue so those that wanna play and work as team can.
I agree with adding a queue for tiamat. That would be great. But again, if the raid cannot be completed successfully, due to lack of DPS, then quitting early hurts nobody. I do not advocate quitting because you inspect a few players GS, but quitting makes perfect sense if, for example, you cannot even get to green on round one.
I don't think all runs are winnable. You need to get two heads down in the first round to win. My problem is the zone chat being spammed by people saying red needs to be down to 50% or it is a loss. 5+ people then proceed to quit after we get red down to only 75%, thus gimping our DPS for the next two rounds and resulting in an actual loss. THOSE are the quitters I blame for losses. If those 5 stay, it is an easy win. Well over half of my losses occur in this exact way.
Having said that, I agree entirely with the OP that some form of penalty needs to occur for quitting early. Yes, the downside is that you must waste 10 more minutes of your time in an unwinnable situation sometimes, but truthfully, you will find your win percentage increase drastically. Many many situations that previously ended up in losses because of quitters will now be wins. It would also change the overall mentality of players in this game to something much more positive. The zone chat is sickening right now and I really wish there was a way to disable it.
I would also like to see a better form of consolation prize for losses, maybe to help mitigate that you can't leave. Maybe award shards of a favor that can be combined into a full Linu's Favor, so that 4 losses = 1 win or something.
Upping the rewards for failures, really? You fail, so you shouldn't get anything lol. In any case, the whole idea of punishing those of us who leave in impossible situations still makes no sense. Lets say they have a penalty for leaving, then we would just sit at the campfire. Lets say they have a penalty for not attacking anything for X amount of time, then we would run out hit one thing then run back. So in any case we just don't want to waste our time for a loss.
Edit: Once again, I am not one who leaves at the beginning. I have only left when we do not get at least 2 heads first round. I know it is possible to beat even when red is not touched until round 2.
Pat, you've said your piece. More than a couple times. We know where you stand. Continuing to say it really doesn't help the conversation in any way, especially given the majority of people both here and in zone who think people should be punished for leaving early. Yes, we know, you don't want to be. No need to reply.
My last reply was simply stating/asking what you think a penalty would actually do? As I said, if by some miracle they actually do incur a penalty for leaving, what do you think will happen? You think we would keep fighting in a hopeless endeavor? No, we would stand at the campfire. And if they incur a penalty for standing at the campfire, you think we wouldn't run out every minute or so and hit something then go back to the fire?
Yes I have said before that I do leave in hopeless attempts at Tiamat. But I wanted to know what you actually think would happen if there were penalties laid down. We would not be dumb enough to actually get penalized, we would find a way to not waste our time completely, but also not fight hopelessly.
Edit: Everyone on here has simply said, there should be penalties. But, no one has given any actually ways how they would actually hurt those of us who leave.
The idea with penalties for me is that it could mitigate much of the defeatist attitude many players have. You may be correct in the possibility for a win with your own personal level of game skill, however it does not mean other players are close to your skill level or hold the same fail metrics. Essentially we are at a point where most runs seem to fail due to quitters who just do not try. Maybe if the consequence for quitting was a 24 hour ban more players would try just a bit more.
Yes, the players who think they know it will fail could just find other ways to game the system if it changed. Or they would just not join because the 20 minutes are really too important for them to waste on the chance it will not be an easy win.
I can understand what you are saying, but what I was saying is: if they did make a ban period of X amount of time for quitting....do you think we would leave the area, i.e. quit? No, we would stand at the fire. Therefore we would not leave, to incur the penalty, but we still would not waste our time fighting/dying in a hopeless attempt.
I can understand what you are saying, but what I was saying is: if they did make a ban period of X amount of time for quitting....do you think we would leave the area, i.e. quit? No, we would stand at the fire. Therefore we would not leave, to incur the penalty, but we still would not waste our time fighting/dying in a hopeless attempt.
I think you are again putting what you would do as what all would do, and they may. I like to believe that having the ban would push just a few more people into either fighting like there is a time commitment and it means something, as well as make a few more just not join because they feel camping would just be a waste of time. Both of those scenerios would be better for everyone than the current trend.
i have yet to see the black head glitch personally on probably about a hundred - hundred fifty runs. In an ideal world they would have that fixed before implementing the penalty, but I don't know what that might be since I have yet to see the glitch.
Pat, it's about a change of attitude. If you can't commit 20 minutes of your time, don't join the raid. End of story. That's what we are trying for. Will it suck on the runs you know you wont win? Sure. Will the win rate go up? Pretty sure it will. Especially if you know that if you want to keep farming you have to spend the realistically 12ish more minutes in the raid max after possibly deciding its a loss. Boohoo, you have to "waste" 12 minutes of your time playing a video game you enjoy.
Again, you have beaten your point to death, and refuse to see anyone elses. We know you are firmly against it. No need to keep arguing. But hey, you are making this thread have a very large post count, soooo do what you want.
Hate on me because you rely on other people to carry you, lol Classic. The fact of the matter is, there is no penalty on PC therefore there will be no penalty on Xbox. Plus, next month when Tiamat is lvl 70 the only people that would be in there fighting are those of us who actually work for our gear and get to 70. Not those who buy their 10k on the AH. So when that time comes I am sure all of you crying about loosing will be crying that they make a Tiamat that your suck *** lvl/gs can get you into lol
There is no hate on you, he made a valid point that you are set in your opinion and I tend to agree a bit.
Fwiw, myself and a few of the others are certainly ones who carry low gear score, so please refrain from taking it to that level. I love playing the game, have time to grind, and a little money to spend on it. There is zero animosity from me to the players who buy 10k gear and try out the new content that they are offered. Every day I make a point to try and help new players any chance I get, and many of the posters here who team up with me can validate that.
What you may be seeing as "crying about losing" is the portion of us who are looking for ways to improve gameplay for everyone instead of perpetuating the problem.
....and the fact that there is no penalty on PC does not seem to be registering with anyone here. Why would they possibly waste their time implementing a penalty on Xbox, something they never did on PC? As much as you all may WANT this to happen, it never will.
....and the fact that there is no penalty on PC does not seem to be registering with anyone here. Why would they possibly waste their time implementing a penalty on Xbox, something they never did on PC? As much as you all may WANT this to happen, it never will.
We already have a game that has not followed the same path as PC, and are playing on a different platform. Not everything will be the same 100% on the two. With very little choice of MMO on xbox and a huge amount on PC, it is a safe guess that we may be where PW is getting it's bread buttered and might have a little more feedback on what changes happen. It still has no bearing on the discussion of the idea of implementing a penalty for quitters.
The only thing that we are different from PC is the order in which we got the Mods, but PC still has all of them currently and we do not. Therefore we are not different from PC, we are just behind. So with us being behind and with us getting Mod6, why would they even remotely give two looks towards making a penalty. You people need to think about this logically.
Here is logic, we make PW more money than PC and have potentially larger player base. Because the two platforms have different input devices, the games are not identical, so some programming happens to port it here. If there is a growing player base on xbox and a declining on PC due to massive choices for MMOs, and the player base does not alienate new players(vtk,chat spam,tiamat) so much to stunt growth, it is logical to assume changes will be made here as a priority over PC.
The community is what will make or break this game we enjoy. If it remains toxic and some things are not corrected, less players will remain and purchase services offered.
Pretty sure 10ks have beaten Tiamat on PC. Just like 10ks and 9.2ks have cleared Castle Never on PC.
Thanks for the personal attacks, really appreciate it.
As far as 10-13ks ruining Tiamat runs, that is the exact attitude that needs changing. And boy, are you in for a rude shock when GS goes away completely in a month.
You have to remember, this stuff is playtested before assigned a GS requirement. A good team at the BASE requirement can in fact clear the content. Instead of whining about people being undergeared and ruining your runs, pick up a dragonsoul, team up with other players in your instance and make an honest effort.
I'm perfectly fine with 17k+ stopping Tiamat. Not sure what they still want from it, but 99% of the time they don't have 24%RI, and dont play as a team, and are the first to quit.
I feel like a lot of you have never experienced end game content in an MMO before. You aren't supposed to beat it easily. Honestly, this is the easiest end game raid I have ever seen, and the success rate is terrible due to no team mentality and people just quitting. It really needs to change. If you have a better idea than imposing a penalty to those who selfishly quit, please suggest it. I am all ears. If you are just chiming in to say that its stupid, thats fine too. You have as much of a right to an opinion as anyone else. But knock off the personal attacks, and quit trying to drown out everyone else. It's not a personal thing unless you make it that way.
But thats cool, I'm just carried through raids clearly.
Nothing you posted is science as a matter of fact, but the added punctuation does make you sound less scientific. I can make up percentages too, 86% of people who read forums think they know what 100% of the player base does.
There is a breaking point with gear score where even if they have not done the best build, they could do more damage, but they also could quit after the first head because it didn't go as fast as they wanted. Also, players who are at 18 or 20k could have purchased it all and have no clue, we do not know.
Gear score means nothing if you don't try to play and work together with the rest of the people in the instance.
I love when you can look at the 10ks gear and tell that they literally bought <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the AH just to get to 10k....just to ruin everyone's Tiamat runs. This guy I saw in one lobby had a 10,024 gs, 4 green items (not artifacts, just normal drop green items), no artifact (except for the store), and a whole slew a different rank 5 enchants.
I literally hit my head on my desk, instead of face palming.
should i take le picture of this 10k tr sitting in the spawn right now?
Why? So you can scream science b again? There is no dispute that low gear score go to the brand new content the game is offering. They have a right to be there by the game design. How many of these players that you inspect have you tried to help? Offer to help them gear up? As questions about build? Or do you get all worked up about how good you are and how they are scrubs? Does it just give you more justification to quit when the wind blows the wrong direction during the run?
By the way, these are mostly rhetorical questions in case you feel the need to post answers to them.
Comments
Having said that, I agree entirely with the OP that some form of penalty needs to occur for quitting early. Yes, the downside is that you must waste 10 more minutes of your time in an unwinnable situation sometimes, but truthfully, you will find your win percentage increase drastically. Many many situations that previously ended up in losses because of quitters will now be wins. It would also change the overall mentality of players in this game to something much more positive. The zone chat is sickening right now and I really wish there was a way to disable it.
I would also like to see a better form of consolation prize for losses, maybe to help mitigate that you can't leave. Maybe award shards of a favor that can be combined into a full Linu's Favor, so that 4 losses = 1 win or something.
Edit: Once again, I am not one who leaves at the beginning. I have only left when we do not get at least 2 heads first round. I know it is possible to beat even when red is not touched until round 2.
Yes I have said before that I do leave in hopeless attempts at Tiamat. But I wanted to know what you actually think would happen if there were penalties laid down. We would not be dumb enough to actually get penalized, we would find a way to not waste our time completely, but also not fight hopelessly.
Edit: Everyone on here has simply said, there should be penalties. But, no one has given any actually ways how they would actually hurt those of us who leave.
Yes, the players who think they know it will fail could just find other ways to game the system if it changed. Or they would just not join because the 20 minutes are really too important for them to waste on the chance it will not be an easy win.
I think you are again putting what you would do as what all would do, and they may. I like to believe that having the ban would push just a few more people into either fighting like there is a time commitment and it means something, as well as make a few more just not join because they feel camping would just be a waste of time. Both of those scenerios would be better for everyone than the current trend.
Pat, it's about a change of attitude. If you can't commit 20 minutes of your time, don't join the raid. End of story. That's what we are trying for. Will it suck on the runs you know you wont win? Sure. Will the win rate go up? Pretty sure it will. Especially if you know that if you want to keep farming you have to spend the realistically 12ish more minutes in the raid max after possibly deciding its a loss. Boohoo, you have to "waste" 12 minutes of your time playing a video game you enjoy.
Again, you have beaten your point to death, and refuse to see anyone elses. We know you are firmly against it. No need to keep arguing. But hey, you are making this thread have a very large post count, soooo do what you want.
Fwiw, myself and a few of the others are certainly ones who carry low gear score, so please refrain from taking it to that level. I love playing the game, have time to grind, and a little money to spend on it. There is zero animosity from me to the players who buy 10k gear and try out the new content that they are offered. Every day I make a point to try and help new players any chance I get, and many of the posters here who team up with me can validate that.
What you may be seeing as "crying about losing" is the portion of us who are looking for ways to improve gameplay for everyone instead of perpetuating the problem.
We already have a game that has not followed the same path as PC, and are playing on a different platform. Not everything will be the same 100% on the two. With very little choice of MMO on xbox and a huge amount on PC, it is a safe guess that we may be where PW is getting it's bread buttered and might have a little more feedback on what changes happen. It still has no bearing on the discussion of the idea of implementing a penalty for quitters.
The community is what will make or break this game we enjoy. If it remains toxic and some things are not corrected, less players will remain and purchase services offered.
Thanks for the personal attacks, really appreciate it.
As far as 10-13ks ruining Tiamat runs, that is the exact attitude that needs changing. And boy, are you in for a rude shock when GS goes away completely in a month.
You have to remember, this stuff is playtested before assigned a GS requirement. A good team at the BASE requirement can in fact clear the content. Instead of whining about people being undergeared and ruining your runs, pick up a dragonsoul, team up with other players in your instance and make an honest effort.
I'm perfectly fine with 17k+ stopping Tiamat. Not sure what they still want from it, but 99% of the time they don't have 24%RI, and dont play as a team, and are the first to quit.
I feel like a lot of you have never experienced end game content in an MMO before. You aren't supposed to beat it easily. Honestly, this is the easiest end game raid I have ever seen, and the success rate is terrible due to no team mentality and people just quitting. It really needs to change. If you have a better idea than imposing a penalty to those who selfishly quit, please suggest it. I am all ears. If you are just chiming in to say that its stupid, thats fine too. You have as much of a right to an opinion as anyone else. But knock off the personal attacks, and quit trying to drown out everyone else. It's not a personal thing unless you make it that way.
But thats cool, I'm just carried through raids clearly.
There is a breaking point with gear score where even if they have not done the best build, they could do more damage, but they also could quit after the first head because it didn't go as fast as they wanted. Also, players who are at 18 or 20k could have purchased it all and have no clue, we do not know.
Gear score means nothing if you don't try to play and work together with the rest of the people in the instance.
I literally hit my head on my desk, instead of face palming.
Why? So you can scream science b again? There is no dispute that low gear score go to the brand new content the game is offering. They have a right to be there by the game design. How many of these players that you inspect have you tried to help? Offer to help them gear up? As questions about build? Or do you get all worked up about how good you are and how they are scrubs? Does it just give you more justification to quit when the wind blows the wrong direction during the run?
By the way, these are mostly rhetorical questions in case you feel the need to post answers to them.