> @kwsapphire said:
It's almost $1400 to get an artifact to Transcendent would be happy to have a P2W button, but I just don't see it!
AR U INSANE? its 720 zen in rp points during 2x rp, its 2000 in zen in gmops + other irrelevant gmarks + preservation wards . man what u have been smoking.
Correct me if I'm wrong....
Level 140 transcendent: 10,469,635 RP points.
Blood Ruby: 800-2000 Zen, depending on whether you buy them individually or in a three pack. Three pack is the more economical, so for conservative estimate, let us go with that.
They offer 50K a piece. 100K during an x2.
Let's assume that you buy them during a 50% off sale. So that's $10.00 a piece, and then you wait for a x2. So its $10.00 for 300K in refinement points.
10,469,635/300,000=34.90. Let's round that up to 35. So you need 35 Blood rubies at a x2 event to level up an artifact to max. Buying them in packs of three, that's 12 purchases. 12x10 (again, assuming that you've waited for more or less ideal times, as I can't recall if they've ever sold those things half off before), that's 120 dollars before wards and GMOPs and the like are added in. Again. This is assuming ideal circumstances. Under standard conditions, your cost is going to be $480.00
For a single artifact and/or enchantment.
There are 4 artifact slots, and 4 artifact equipment slots (Main, off hand, neck, belt). So under ideal circumstances, it's going to be $960.00 in straight up refinement points to max out a toon. Under standard circumstances, it'll be nearly four grand.
For context, at minimum, that means that for the cost of leveling up a single Neverwinter toon's gear (which will then be rendered obsolete by the next mod, more than likely), I could buy an Xbox-1 or PS4 (~399.00), extra controllers (~40-60.00) and several full fledged games ($40.00-$60.00 each). At the standard price, it means that I could purchase a high end gaming rig, like a Titan Genesis or something like that, download a hundred games off Steam at 1-15$ a pop, and run them all simultaneously while I laugh at the guy who just spent the amount of a down-payment on a car to level up 50% of one chap's gear on an MMO that's removed 50% of its content in its last "expansion" module.
Does that not strike you as just a wee bit outrageous? Especially given that the man hours to create the code for the RP and items has already been done, and thus they could probably make more money by lowering the price to a more reasonable level, thus convincing more people to buy a Blood Ruby here and there?
I spend money on the game from time to time.... If you want to be "BiS" in every mod then you either need to play the market or spend money. But you dont need to spend money to play this game or do the PvE content and have a good time IMO. I did not spend money on this game for a long time until i felt like i wanted a extra boost. But the fact is you need money in some form if you want to be BiS but you dont need it to have a good time(unless you want to be BiS).
> @aratech said:
> hogtpl wrote: »
>
>
>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong....
>
> Level 140 transcendent: 10,469,635 RP points.
>
> Blood Ruby: 800-2000 Zen, depending on whether you buy them individually or in a three pack. Three pack is the more economical, so for conservative estimate, let us go with that.
>
> They offer 50K a piece. 100K during an x2.
>
> Let's assume that you buy them during a 50% off sale. So that's $10.00 a piece, and then you wait for a x2. So its $10.00 for 300K in refinement points.
why u would buy rubies? are u insane? same + got for 3000k zen ,
edit: including all reservation wards and rest
Present your breakdown model then. What are you purchasing for 3000 K that gets you the 10,469,635 RP points.
0
kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
Blood Ruby: 800-2000 Zen, depending on whether you buy them individually or in a three pack. Three pack is the more economical, so for conservative estimate, let us go with that.
They offer 50K a piece. 100K during an x2.
Let's assume that you buy them during a 50% off sale. So that's $10.00 a piece, and then you wait for a x2. So its $10.00 for 300K in refinement points.
10,469,635/300,000=34.90. Let's round that up to 35. So you need 35 Blood rubies at a x2 event to level up an artifact to max. Buying them in packs of three, that's 12 purchases. 12x10 (again, assuming that you've waited for more or less ideal times, as I can't recall if they've ever sold those things half off before), that's 120 dollars before wards and GMOPs and the like are added in. Again. This is assuming ideal circumstances. Under standard conditions, your cost is going to be $480.00
For a single artifact and/or enchantment.
There are 4 artifact slots, and 4 artifact equipment slots (Main, off hand, neck, belt). So under ideal circumstances, it's going to be $960.00 in straight up refinement points to max out a toon. Under standard circumstances, it'll be nearly four grand.
For context, at minimum, that means that for the cost of leveling up a single Neverwinter toon's gear (which will then be rendered obsolete by the next mod, more than likely), I could buy an Xbox-1 or PS4 (~399.00), extra controllers (~40-60.00) and several full fledged games ($40.00-$60.00 each). At the standard price, it means that I could purchase a high end gaming rig, like a Titan Genesis or something like that, download a hundred games off Steam at 1-15$ a pop, and run them all simultaneously while I laugh at the guy who just spent the amount of a down-payment on a car to level up 50% of one chap's gear on an MMO that's removed 50% of its content in its last "expansion" module.
Does that not strike you as just a wee bit outrageous? Especially given that the man hours to create the code for the RP and items has already been done, and thus they could probably make more money by lowering the price to a more reasonable level, thus convincing more people to buy a Blood Ruby here and there?
Thank you for the math! I do think spending thousands of dollars on one character goes beyond my personal limit. However I've also heard that Blood Rubies are the most expensive RP you can get. Most people I know buy stacks of R4 and R5 Enchantments on the AH, which is a far more cost effective way to get RP. So in all honesty you can max out your character for far less than this math suggests.
Again, I personally rely heavily on what drops while I play the game, and save up for 2xRP weekends. I have bought a couple Blood Ruby packs (especially when I get the 50% Anything Coupon), but that's not where most of my RP has come from. I was dropping a lot of green "trash" gear into my artifact gear for a while too, but now I am thinking most of that will go to the stronghold coffers, if it is of any use at all.
> @aratech said:
> hogtpl wrote: »
>
>
>
>
> Present your breakdown model then. What are you purchasing for 3000 K that gets you the 10,469,635 RP points.
3k of course i corrected it in second edit
*sighs*
Look, when I say present your breakdown model, do like what I did. Explain what you're purchasing, for how much, and how much RP it's getting you for the artifact and/or artifact equipment. Show your work. Show the math/purchases.
Thank you for the math! I do think spending thousands of dollars on one character goes beyond my personal limit. However I've also heard that Blood Rubies are the most expensive RP you can get. Most people I know buy stacks of R4 and R5 Enchantments on the AH, which is a far more cost effective way to get RP. So in all honesty you can max out your character for far less than this math suggests.
Again, I personally rely heavily on what drops while I play the game, and save up for 2xRP weekends. I have bought a couple Blood Ruby packs (especially when I get the 50% Anything Coupon), but that's not where most of my RP has come from. I was dropping a lot of green "trash" gear into my artifact gear for a while too, but now I am thinking most of that will go to the stronghold coffers, if it is of any use at all.
Apologies for the double quote, missed this. The problem with that is that while the R4-5's work for the artifacts (And that's what most do) it doesn't get around the fact that you can't use enchantments for the artifact equipment. You can only use stones or appropriately level gear. It still leaves you with $480.00 to $1,920.00 to cover the artifact equipment. And then to pray the next module doesn't render them lower level and unable to be transmuted into the next modules gear like Mod 6 did with the Draconic stuff.
0
kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
Oh, I should also probably mention the Salvager's Enchantments I have in most of my utility slots. I get extra drops because of that, so maybe my pain is slightly less for others who rely on drops.
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
My 2 cents on this topic...
1 - No matter how much money you invest in this game, you can not buy skill. Even if you are following a build guide and have all your stats correct, and have everything maxed out with a 4k+ ilevel, if you don't know your skill rotations, you can still be killed in PvP by someone with a much lower ilevel but more skill.
2 - Due to the Zen exchange, basically everything in the game can be earned free. Yes, it does take a lot of time in order to do so. It may take a really LONG time to get BiS anything. But it is achievable without investing a single dime, if you have the time to invest instead.
So, I do not think that the game is Pay-to-win.
Putting on my moderator hat... we are leaving this thread open for discussion, even though it is a hot issue. I just ask that people please keep things civil. It's fine if you disagree with someone, but no name calling or flaming. Thank you.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Admin announcements for lockbox drops.
You can skip a campaign by paying.
Ninja nerfs to item efficiency.
Removal of AD-making methods such as Leadership.
Zen store "promotions" that do not hold up to their promises (see "Bonus companions not account wide").
Removing a part of the game and making it pay-only (Moonstone Mask will now be a VIP-only zone, surprised there isn't more outrage about this).
Refining has pretty much become Neverwinter's endgame.
Everyone, you included, knows these things to be true. Don't come to this forum trying to troll.
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,460Arc User
> @aratech said:
> hogtpl wrote: »
>
>
>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong....
>
> Level 140 transcendent: 10,469,635 RP points.
>
> Blood Ruby: 800-2000 Zen, depending on whether you buy them individually or in a three pack. Three pack is the more economical, so for conservative estimate, let us go with that.
>
> They offer 50K a piece. 100K during an x2.
>
> Let's assume that you buy them during a 50% off sale. So that's $10.00 a piece, and then you wait for a x2. So its $10.00 for 300K in refinement points.
why u would buy rubies? are u insane? same + got for 3000k zen ,
edit: including all reservation wards and rest
Present your breakdown model then. What are you purchasing for 3000 K that gets you the 10,469,635 RP points.
For the RP for Artifact, buy rank 4 enchantment/runestone. Each worth 270 RP for Artifact.
It needs 38777 r4.
392 stack of 99 r4.
The last time I checked it was about 2300 AD for each stack.
It needs 901600 AD. This is 1xRP cost. Half if 2xRP.
Then, you add the Mark cost and ward cost.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
0
kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
Apologies for the double quote, missed this. The problem with that is that while the R4-5's work for the artifacts (And that's what most do) it doesn't get around the fact that you can't use enchantments for the artifact equipment. You can only use stones or appropriately level gear. It still leaves you with $480.00 to $1,920.00 to cover the artifact equipment. And then to pray the next module doesn't render them lower level and unable to be transmuted into the next modules gear like Mod 6 did with the Draconic stuff.
No problem on the double quote, I've been doing the same throughout the whole thread. ;]
I see your point on the artifact gear, though I have been dropping "trash" loot into my artifact gear. There are SO MANY pieces of L70 green gear that drop during normal play. And I have enough ID scrolls to keep them identified, and then toss them into my artifacts. It is indeed slow going, but this stuff is all free, so I really don't mind.
If something is not p2w simply because you can earn it in game, then it would not be p2w to sell bis gear in the zen store correct? it's just a faster way to get it.
> @aratech said:
> hogtpl wrote: »
>
>
>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong....
>
> Level 140 transcendent: 10,469,635 RP points.
>
> Blood Ruby: 800-2000 Zen, depending on whether you buy them individually or in a three pack. Three pack is the more economical, so for conservative estimate, let us go with that.
>
> They offer 50K a piece. 100K during an x2.
>
> Let's assume that you buy them during a 50% off sale. So that's $10.00 a piece, and then you wait for a x2. So its $10.00 for 300K in refinement points.
why u would buy rubies? are u insane? same + got for 3000k zen ,
edit: including all reservation wards and rest
Present your breakdown model then. What are you purchasing for 3000 K that gets you the 10,469,635 RP points.
He is probably using r5's or r4's instead of blood rubies , which significantly cuts the cost as compared to your model.
> @plasticbat said:
> aratech wrote: »
>
> hogtpl wrote: »
>
>
>
>
> Present your breakdown model then. What are you purchasing for 3000 K that gets you the 10,469,635 RP points.
>
>
>
>
> For the RP for Artifact, buy rank 4 enchantment/runestone. Each worth 270 RP for Artifact.
> It needs 38777 r4.
> 392 stack of 99 r4.
> The last time I checked it was about 2300 AD for each stack.
> It needs 901600 AD. This is 1xRP cost. Half if 2xRP.
> Then, you add the Mark cost and ward cost.
stack of lvl 4 u can get for 1,5k ad - its 54k rp+crits during 2x rp. so during 2x for 30k ad u have 1 mill rp
edit: damn u @plasticbat now they will b 3k ad
I know it can be 1.5AD. That is the time I stock them up and keep in mailbox waiting for 2xRP.
I just use 2300 as a "fair" number.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
my point exacly and if f16 pilot lies its plain costed 20billion dollars and cant afford it instead of 20 millions he is lying.
btw, anyone knows why my quote does not work? thx
Because you are using > instead of [.quote]?
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,460Arc User
> @starbigamo said:
my point exacly and if f16 pilot lies its plain costed 20billion dollars and cant afford it instead of 20 millions he is lying.
btw, anyone knows why my quote does not work? thx
Look for the quote tag. It probably has more "begin quote tag" than "end quote tag".
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
0
kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
But what you have saying is that if i put a F-22 to battle against a Spitfire the Spitfire pilot can win if the pilot of the F-22 can't piloting (supposing the pilot that can't pilot don't hit a mountain).
Sorry, to say, but it doens't make it more fair at all. If the F-22 pilot have a clue about how to use his fighter there is NOTHING the Spitfire pilot can do to battle him.
Thats exactly what happens on neverwinter, If a 4k player knows his stuff (as most do, for sure) there is NOTHING a 2.300 player can do against him other than trying to find at least 2 more 2.3k playing to TRY to gank him. Supposing the 4k player isn't a OP or Priest.
As I said above, I can't comment on PvP content. It does make sense to me that contenders with a similar item level should be paired against each other, rather then letting someone with 4k fight someone with 2k.
However, in PvE content, skill is far, far greater a factor in a dungeon's success than someone's gear score. I have been in eToS with a party of fairly well-geared people, and still found it impossible to beat the end boss. I've been with a team of less-than-optimal gear, but where everyone knows their role, fulfills their role, and sticks to a strategy that was discussed, agreed upon, and works. In PvE, I will take a skilled player with poor gear over someone who doesn't know how to play their class, or refuses to work with the group, regardless of their item level. Any day of the week.
Comments
The ftp character can be fully equipped too if this is not the first character this ftp player created. Just saying.
Correct me if I'm wrong....
Level 140 transcendent: 10,469,635 RP points.
Blood Ruby: 800-2000 Zen, depending on whether you buy them individually or in a three pack. Three pack is the more economical, so for conservative estimate, let us go with that.
They offer 50K a piece. 100K during an x2.
Let's assume that you buy them during a 50% off sale. So that's $10.00 a piece, and then you wait for a x2. So its $10.00 for 300K in refinement points.
10,469,635/300,000=34.90. Let's round that up to 35. So you need 35 Blood rubies at a x2 event to level up an artifact to max. Buying them in packs of three, that's 12 purchases. 12x10 (again, assuming that you've waited for more or less ideal times, as I can't recall if they've ever sold those things half off before), that's 120 dollars before wards and GMOPs and the like are added in. Again. This is assuming ideal circumstances. Under standard conditions, your cost is going to be $480.00
For a single artifact and/or enchantment.
There are 4 artifact slots, and 4 artifact equipment slots (Main, off hand, neck, belt). So under ideal circumstances, it's going to be $960.00 in straight up refinement points to max out a toon. Under standard circumstances, it'll be nearly four grand.
For context, at minimum, that means that for the cost of leveling up a single Neverwinter toon's gear (which will then be rendered obsolete by the next mod, more than likely), I could buy an Xbox-1 or PS4 (~399.00), extra controllers (~40-60.00) and several full fledged games ($40.00-$60.00 each). At the standard price, it means that I could purchase a high end gaming rig, like a Titan Genesis or something like that, download a hundred games off Steam at 1-15$ a pop, and run them all simultaneously while I laugh at the guy who just spent the amount of a down-payment on a car to level up 50% of one chap's gear on an MMO that's removed 50% of its content in its last "expansion" module.
Does that not strike you as just a wee bit outrageous? Especially given that the man hours to create the code for the RP and items has already been done, and thus they could probably make more money by lowering the price to a more reasonable level, thus convincing more people to buy a Blood Ruby here and there?
Present your breakdown model then. What are you purchasing for 3000 K that gets you the 10,469,635 RP points.
Thank you for the math! I do think spending thousands of dollars on one character goes beyond my personal limit. However I've also heard that Blood Rubies are the most expensive RP you can get. Most people I know buy stacks of R4 and R5 Enchantments on the AH, which is a far more cost effective way to get RP. So in all honesty you can max out your character for far less than this math suggests.
Again, I personally rely heavily on what drops while I play the game, and save up for 2xRP weekends. I have bought a couple Blood Ruby packs (especially when I get the 50% Anything Coupon), but that's not where most of my RP has come from. I was dropping a lot of green "trash" gear into my artifact gear for a while too, but now I am thinking most of that will go to the stronghold coffers, if it is of any use at all.
*sighs*
Look, when I say present your breakdown model, do like what I did. Explain what you're purchasing, for how much, and how much RP it's getting you for the artifact and/or artifact equipment. Show your work. Show the math/purchases.
Apologies for the double quote, missed this. The problem with that is that while the R4-5's work for the artifacts (And that's what most do) it doesn't get around the fact that you can't use enchantments for the artifact equipment. You can only use stones or appropriately level gear. It still leaves you with $480.00 to $1,920.00 to cover the artifact equipment. And then to pray the next module doesn't render them lower level and unable to be transmuted into the next modules gear like Mod 6 did with the Draconic stuff.
1 - No matter how much money you invest in this game, you can not buy skill. Even if you are following a build guide and have all your stats correct, and have everything maxed out with a 4k+ ilevel, if you don't know your skill rotations, you can still be killed in PvP by someone with a much lower ilevel but more skill.
2 - Due to the Zen exchange, basically everything in the game can be earned free. Yes, it does take a lot of time in order to do so. It may take a really LONG time to get BiS anything. But it is achievable without investing a single dime, if you have the time to invest instead.
So, I do not think that the game is Pay-to-win.
Putting on my moderator hat... we are leaving this thread open for discussion, even though it is a hot issue. I just ask that people please keep things civil. It's fine if you disagree with someone, but no name calling or flaming. Thank you.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
You can skip a campaign by paying.
Ninja nerfs to item efficiency.
Removal of AD-making methods such as Leadership.
Zen store "promotions" that do not hold up to their promises (see "Bonus companions not account wide").
Removing a part of the game and making it pay-only (Moonstone Mask will now be a VIP-only zone, surprised there isn't more outrage about this).
Refining has pretty much become Neverwinter's endgame.
Everyone, you included, knows these things to be true. Don't come to this forum trying to troll.
For the RP for Artifact, buy rank 4 enchantment/runestone. Each worth 270 RP for Artifact.
It needs 38777 r4.
392 stack of 99 r4.
The last time I checked it was about 2300 AD for each stack.
It needs 901600 AD. This is 1xRP cost. Half if 2xRP.
Then, you add the Mark cost and ward cost.
No problem on the double quote, I've been doing the same throughout the whole thread. ;]
I see your point on the artifact gear, though I have been dropping "trash" loot into my artifact gear. There are SO MANY pieces of L70 green gear that drop during normal play. And I have enough ID scrolls to keep them identified, and then toss them into my artifacts. It is indeed slow going, but this stuff is all free, so I really don't mind.
He is probably using r5's or r4's instead of blood rubies , which significantly cuts the cost as compared to your model.
I know it can be 1.5AD. That is the time I stock them up and keep in mailbox waiting for 2xRP.
I just use 2300 as a "fair" number.
Because you are using > instead of [.quote]?
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Look for the quote tag. It probably has more "begin quote tag" than "end quote tag".
As I said above, I can't comment on PvP content. It does make sense to me that contenders with a similar item level should be paired against each other, rather then letting someone with 4k fight someone with 2k.
However, in PvE content, skill is far, far greater a factor in a dungeon's success than someone's gear score. I have been in eToS with a party of fairly well-geared people, and still found it impossible to beat the end boss. I've been with a team of less-than-optimal gear, but where everyone knows their role, fulfills their role, and sticks to a strategy that was discussed, agreed upon, and works. In PvE, I will take a skilled player with poor gear over someone who doesn't know how to play their class, or refuses to work with the group, regardless of their item level. Any day of the week.