The T2 drops in tiamat are ruining the game

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

Please take them out. And here are my reasons. By making the gs required to run Tiamat so low you made eSoT and eLoL obsolete for anyone. Then you hand T2 gear away like crazy decreasing it's value to almost nothing, basically making all current dungeons obsolete. Anybody starting the game today even without spending any money can be at a 13k gear score within a few days without ever having to do LoL, SoT or even a dungeon. Why would you do that. You just made every players time prior to this pointless. Why did we spend the hundreds of hours grinding only for you to just give it away now. Why don't you make tiamat a required 13k gs and take out the T2 drops entirely or at least very rare. That way everybody will still have to go thru the same process and progression that some of us day 1 players have had to do. Just last week you couldn't buy a complete T2 set for under 700k and today you can buy one for under 90k. Why did I waste all my time on this game. Did the research on best setups. Read these very forums for insight and examples. I quit playing destiny for this very reason. Please fix this soon. Am I looking at this wrong do you agree or disagree and why moderators please add your opinion as well

Thanks for reading

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

Another thing to add. A true MMO wasn't meant to be at end game material in a week. It's supposed to take time and effort and grinding. If people wish to spend money new to get there faster hey that's cool with me it's your money but to make all prior content obsolete for everyone is the exact opposite of what this was supposed to be about.

namebrand · July 2015

The lower the GS requirement then the more people who have access to the raid.
The more people who have access to the raid, then the more people who are probably going to buy keys on zen store.
Coincidentally there was a zen sale going on?
More zen sales = more $$$ and at the end of the day, a lot of people have gotten the impression that that's all they're worried about.
Who can say though? Maybe there is some other obvious logical reason for them to do things this way that are a benefit to the playerbase and the game as a whole, I just can't personally think of any.

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

I can see your point but at the same time those newer players would have spent probably even more money to do it the other way. Many are to impatient to grind so I would think they would lose money in the long run. Well I guess we can look at it this way. No more boot and loot no one needs to run dungeons anymore

rockstargfu · July 2015

Now is the time devote to 1 character and make him rise through refinments and levelinv professions for kits and jewelary

kriptical1 · July 2015

Really have to agree that seeing a t2 drop after Tiamat would be pretty upsetting. Personally haven't had the best instances for that 'raid,' so to finally get a good one and be mulligan'd on loot(again), is pretty rough. The above arguments illustrating how it makes much of the content virtually obsolete are valid as well.

agent00spliff · July 2015

In case you haven't figured it out by now the intended endgame, I say intended since the dev team has neglected it since beta, for Neverwinter is pvp.

It amazes me how many people are up in arms about T2 gear becoming readily and cheaply available for everyone. People cry that others don't have enough gearscore but you don't want them to be able to access gear without going through the trials of Hercules? Or is it the fact that you can't kick people out of groups and sell the gear you robbed them of the chance to roll on for large amounts of diamonds anymore?

You're crying about time put in. You have no clue about grind since you just got into this game when it came to Xbox One, I guess those of us who played on PC should start a riot since it's ridiculously easy to acquire gear now compared to what we had to go through (along with how many times we ended up having to completely re-gear characters due to changes).

rockstargfu · July 2015

All games have to make stuff that used to take a while easier, its progression.

Yes the chance for high value items has seemingly disappeared. But thats the pace of these games, play hard on fresh content and make bookoo bucks.

Unfortunately not much profit to be made atm from drops.

So to fhat i say, enjoy the game, gear up and be ready to make maaad money

(Hey where were you complaining about 10k ad relics that give over a days work of campaign currency grinding??)

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

I can see your point to an extant and too start off this conversation don't call me a boot and looter cause I'm not, nor have I ever been, ask any member of my guild. They will tell you. Second you should be even ore upset about than me if you supposedly have been playing for the last 2 years. I to date have only a little over a 1000 hours in this game. Which are alot to some and not as much to others. Also this is an Xbox forum not a pc one, so it's a completely different world. For instance I'm sure the pc version didn't start with mod 4. Xbox did along w parts of mod 5. And I personally haven't seen anything stating that pvp was the end game. Doesn't mean it isn't but what a bad way to end a story by playing pvp which if that too is true then what a complete let down. I wasn't asking for your name calling so it's not welcomed I was asking for a discussion. I have been playing video games since the original atari. I have also played the real dungeon and dragons back when you had to use paper and pencils and dice and some imagination. Call it what you will I wasn't "crying" how you put it I was asking for why is it this way. Why did I spend my time doing it. What are we as players getting out of it. Did I say I dislike the game? No! Will I continue to play it? I'm refining as we speak. I haven't played the pc version so I don't know what is coming maybe instead insulting people try helping the discussion and telling us what is coming so as you can see above some of us don't know

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

rockstargfu wrote: »

All games have to make stuff that used to take a while easier, its progression.

Yes the chance for high value items has seemingly disappeared. But thats the pace of these games, play hard on fresh content and make bookoo bucks.

Unfortunately not much profit to be made atm from drops.

So to fhat i say, enjoy the game, gear up and be ready to make maaad money

(Hey where were you complaining about 10k ad relics that give over a days work of campaign currency grinding??)

Thank you I don't see a problem with making it easier but obsolete?

rockstargfu · July 2015

No arguments that if you have stayed on top of stuff, their aint much to meaningfully run atm. But noobys and vets alike still run dungeons. My LFG chat srill has ppl callin for T2 runs

Unknown · July 2015

This content has been removed.

draven165 · July 2015

Sadly this is the way video games end up. ALL MMO video games end up. It wasn't always the case. I have played MMO's since their inception and back in the day regardless how long a game was out, any new player had to go through the trials. But what they found out (they meaning feedback groups, developers, etc) was that when a "new" player came into a pre-existing game that was already established they often felt overwhelmed or what have you and the chance of churn on that new player was higher than someone that got in on the ground floor.

Now lets fast forward that to today. There is a very well know and extremely profitable MMO that took all this data and did something that may not have been the first, but did it better than anyone else previously. They called it the fast track to end game. This was new players just joining in could jump pretty much right into the fray. See these focus groups determined that after a game was established one of the best sources of new subscribers was from the word of mouth of their friends. But as we all know if your friend had already been playing they were more than likely already at end game so a new person just joining would not be able to play with their friend for quite some time. Hence the "fast track to end game". By making it easy for a new player to get to the level of their existing friend, the likely hood of them staying was much much higher.

Although it is easy for us that have been somewhere since day one and fought through the glitched content, and bugs. Dealt with the slow grind of acquiring gear and what knot to say its not cool and not fair, the truth is that this is how progression in the real world works. At the end of the day this is a business and they have to do what is in the best interest of their business. This model works because if it didn't then every MMO wouldn't have taken to that model. Its more about studying human behavior and understanding how people make purchases than it is about anything else and also keep in mind this company is trying to deal with a whole new demographic of players. The dreaded "Console Players". I read a very good article once that likened console players as hopped up ADHD children as they bounce around from game to game. I understand where the writer was going with this but it still made me chuckle. That's a hard crowd to appease for any company and this company is doing just that and doing that well. There have been a ton of long standing issues from PC that have been getting addressed since the console launch just for that reason. PC players tend to be a more loyal bunch than console players.

These drops will not "ruin the economy". Maybe your profits but not the economy. Besides this gear should all be obsolete once the level cap is increased I would think. My advice is to just sit back and enjoy the game and worry less about how other people acquire their gear and items. When a game starts to feel "unfair" or "no longer fun" it may be time to look for something else. That is, after all, what these games are supposed to be about... Fun.

madokanxbox · July 2015

I would raise the Limit from 10.000 GS to 12.500/13.000 GS. All 10.000 or 11.000 GS chars should stay away - most of the time the raid will fail!

draven165 · July 2015

The problem with changing the GS requirement is that NOT ALL CLASSES GS is balanced. One of the best sets for a cleric is Tier 1. So youre saying all Clerics need to change to a higher tier and "pad their GS" just to do Tiamat but ultimately they will perform worse? So who cares if I am not effective in the raid as long as that little number says 13k I am golden right?

This is one of the biggest problems with this community and their GS debate. IF and that's a big IF all classes GS was based off optimal builds and not the preconceived idea that just because it came from a higher dungeon the item is better then yes I would be on board with the GS debate. But that just isn't the case.

I have a level 60 of every class. My GF in Tier 1 gear with worse enchants than my main character has a GS of 12k. I have put no effort into this guy at all yet. Just got him to 60 and bought Tier 1. Level 4 enchants at best. It wouldn't take much to get him to 13k, but the build is HAMSTER and the stats would not be anywhere close to where they need to be. BUT he would have 13k GS so you would rather run with him than a character that has level 7 or 8 enchants and has all the minimum stats that are needed? This is where this whole community is just completely wrong. I changed out to Tier 2 on my Cleric just to shut people up about the GS. I am sitting right at 14k GS but to be honest, I should be running Tier 1 for the 4 set bonus. But hey, my GS is up so I am good to go right?

majordogmeat · July 2015

tl;dr version.

Markets Change, adjust your position/placement.

New players join game haven't grinded. They won't have campaign unlocks & boons. They will die more often than others in raids and PvP. But will still be able to do most other PvE stuff.

blindmonkeyz · July 2015

I have completed Tiamat 10 times success and gotten T2 junk, others have had less successes and gotten Orb and Artifact offhands. this is ridiculous. A waste of my time for junk i dont need or want. I have tried with 3 different level 60 chars with a 15k gs and just T2 stuff or a pouch with a success.. really? LOL

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

Ok I can see the point about the gs. I too have a lvl 60 of every type and the numbers do vary alot. Fair enough about that. My whole point about the 13k was to make the T2 gear relevant again for anybody. New players and old players. I also understand about the focus groups and making money. I understand that end the end it's about making profit. I guess it boils down to for me is what made the game fun for me as a player was that grind, that daily goal you set for yourself. By eliminating most of the middle content (dungeons) leveling up new characters just lost alot of fun. As Draven said earlier MMO's didn't use to be Ike this I don't want to go from A straight to D I would like to have done B and C along the way for all my characters. And I guess technically I could.... I'm not saying the game isn't fun and I don't like it. This game is fun and I'm addicted to MMO type games. Just wish they would have added new content without making the old content worthless. For a perfect example why did xbox spend time making the xb1 backwards compatible? Because people wanted to play their older games again. It had nothing to do with the new stuff. They wanted to grind out Mass Effect again and Gears of War etc... What if they made it to where it was pointless to play it all the way thru. You could just go straight to the final fight and watch Sheppard (spoiler) die in the end. Most people (at least my generation of gamers) would be upset about it. It would mess the game up from the way it was suppose to be played.

calutaxi · July 2015

Shores and lostmauth are still worth doing, as are the T2s.
While the BOE T2 set pieces aren't selling for as much, some weren't even before tiamat.

As far as character progression goes... Even if a fresh 60 is able to easily acquire a full T2 set, he would still need all of the "fill in" items as well. eLoL jewelry is still a solid choice for those that don't have 20JC. Breyer's and Haarl's value has been increasing. GMs are of course needed by everyone too.

Personally I've gotten more diamonds from salvaging junk items on my alts, than I ever got from selling big ticket items (which I hardly ever saw anyway).

legendraystr3 · July 2015

Who cares about T2? I don't want any of that. I'm going to salvage most of it anyways.

And most of it is random. If you want a complete set, it's probably easier and quicker to run dungeons anyways. Besides. If you need T2 and you are running Tiamat.... you are of no help to your team and probably fail a lot.

To answer your question of why you did all that grinding from day one. Was.... to play a video game. To have fun. To accomplish something. To pass the time. To get away or take a break from your life's problem. Does it really matter that you did all this work in the past and now it's easier to get T2 stuff or it's cheaper. The reason that is, is because no one wants them. They want the new "better" gear. And since you did all that work from day one.... you have the advantage of acquiring these new items "quicker" and "easier".

People will have their own opinion. And I'm not hear trying to change anyone's mind. I'm just speaking on how I feel and how I look at this. You are complaining about playing a video game.... then months later the items you worked so hard for are now easier and not worth as much..... and your mad for playing the game. Makes no sense. The logic is broken. We play video games to play. If there wasn't new stuff. We get bored and stop playing. I did. I was sick and when I felt better, I didn't really play Neverwinter for 2 weeks besides my professions and praying to the gods because I wanted Tiamat. Now Tiamat is here, I've played many and many hours everyday. That's how video games work. Eventually the old gear or old items are HAMSTER and everyone wants the new one. I don't see the problem. But I understand a little of your frustration.

draven165 · July 2015

To the OP. I must say thanks and applaud you on this post and more importantly your replies. I know some of my posts could be taken a little harsh (depending on how you read them) but that was never the intent and you got that. Thank you for that. Your replies were very well thought out and this is how a discussion should go. Although we don't see actual discussions very often in forums.

Kudos to you and again thank you for this discussion. I say thank you because in my world, career, whatever you wish to call it, any discussion that allows you to think and self reflect about a topic is a successful discussion and I have had several moments that caused me to stop and think.

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

Draven I too appreciate it as well. Not many times can you have a conversation with people of different ways of looking at things and not have it get out of hand with insults and derogatory remarks. So it was fun and I look forward to more in the future. I can honestly say I have looked at these forums more today than before because of tr dialogue my question has created. So thanks to you and everyone for the feedback. Would enjoy killing a round of dragons with you before going after a hydra. If you ever want to run just add me. Same goes for anyone who wants to run. My gt Bleedin Blue75 I'm mostly a daytime player central time zone.

b0redgamer · July 2015

Having a good debate without it reducing to insult hurling is a rare thing in forums. I commend you guys for keeping a civil debate!!

matthew13491 · July 2015

Just joined Neverwinter a month ago... first post.

Firstly, this is the progression of every MMO type game. New raids usually mean other good gear is devalued.

You are 1000% right that T2 gear should not be dropped from Tiamat. All it does is flood the AH with T2, killing T2 value even more and making T2 really only worth salvage at the low low prices they are offered for in AH. (Many T2 offered for lower than salvage prices wtf??)

Now LoL and SoL are not useless. Getting my jewel crafting up to 25 is taking awhile. That means the best rings I can get are Ring of Pain. Also shore set (BNotS, DRotS, BRotS) worth a lot can still be farmed. Now that LOL and SoL are not the endgame, naturally some of their gear will be now a short stepping stone... but that is the world of MMOs.

blindmonkeyz · July 2015

Nice to see some people know the world of MMO games. Just wait til Elemental Evil comes out everyone. The real fun will begin

agent00spliff · July 2015

^ There is nothing fun about Mod 6 unless you think driving away most of the playerbase with ridiculous changes is fun.

bleedinblue755 · July 2015

Thanks for the feedback guys quick question for because I honestly haven't done the research yet. What are you referring to with the the mod 6 quests. Any advice or things to start loading up on now?

spacemountain40 · July 2015

Agree 10000% with the OP. T2's have now ne rendered useless with the release of Tiamat and it's absurd mechanics. Now 10,11,12k GS players can bypass all T2 gear and obtain Draconic Templar armor in a matter of weeks. This has completely ruined my entire guilds drive to play this game. There is now zero separation from the hard core to the casual. This is NOT how MMO'S work. People that put in more time should be rewarded as such.

spacemountain40 · July 2015

10, 11, 12k GS players can now ride the coattails of the high GS players that have put a ton of time into the game, and reap the rewards and obtain the highest Stat armor set in the game without contributing at all. It's atrocious. Congrats, Tiamats mechanics have without a doubt ruined the economy and how this game is played now. This game won't get another penny from me. I Garaunteed I'm not alone. Best wishes!!

bmean · July 2015

I have to somewhat agree. I've put in close to 1000 hrs in this game. I'm a 16k dps Cleric and I'm specked right, and know what I'm doing. I recently obtained all pieces of the draconic Templar set, previous set was regular draconic set. Just by equipping the new set I jumped from 15k to 16k. 1k difference.
Honestly obtaining the set wasn't hard. So I'm wondering how many newbs are running around with higher gs than what they actually worked for (payers aside). Don't get me wrong, it's nice seeing higher GS running around, it's just irritating that I've put in lots of work to get to whare I'm at, while new players will get there in half the time.
Items I once paid probably 500k ad now are going for less than 100k. But I'm guessing this will draw in more players. Just on the fence if more is better or not.

agent00spliff · July 2015

*Claims he's specced right as a dps cleric

*Doesn't wear HP set

LOLx1000

The T2 drops in tiamat are ruining the game

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