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Foe the sake of low-level PvP: "auto enchantment level adjustment"
kweassa
Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
This is a suggestion I've laid out in the past, but due to no remedies or solutions whatsoever from the devs for a long time, I think it is still very relevant to what is going around in the PvP scene.
There are different types of players, and among them there are PvPers. I consider myself a predominantly a PvP gamer, and while I wouldn't shy away from a good PvE run with my friends or guildies, in truth I really don't find any enjoyment in facing down and fighting enemies that are bound by the limits of dumb AI.
The level up process from lv10 to lv70, is for us, not much more than a chore. Even while at low levels we'd love to enjoy PvP as much as we can. But in truth, finding a match that runs is first a rare thing to happen in the first place, and compared to the earlier days of NW, (dunno about others but) I can really feel how much people have just dumped the entire PvP section of their game when they are between lv10 ~ lv69.
This is because, mostly, everyone treats PvP at this level ranges as a joke... and in truth, the more we are 'veterans' and the more we are 'familiar' to what PvP is like in this game, we know the reason behind it as well, don't we?
In level ranges where the player's builds, powers, and individual skill level is yet incomplete, the more it becomes dependent on gear level. Many builds don't really take off until at least going over lv50, as well as in an environment like this even the player with slightest more experience holds a big advantage over others. These are all causes of imbalances at the low-level PvP scene, but in truth these 'imbalances' are NOTHING compared to just how seriously broken the relative power balance becomes when high-rank enchantments are involved.
The difference between what the PvP players of NW have dubbed in disdain, "TWINKS", and the normal/average geared players in the low levels (...or even some of the more keenly PvP-focused people who'd at least prepare themselves with basic tenacity gear and low-rank enchantments...), is so insufferably huge that IMO it actually exceeds the difference between a fresh level70 and a max-BiS lv70 character.
Whether through direct purchase or through guild support, (...or in some cases illegally exploited AD stashed in mule accounts through active abuse of bugs), these "twinks" are armed to the teeth with enchants easily over rank9~10, fully toting Transcendent level armor/weapon enchantments.
At a level range where average players would barely have over 10k HP with maybe 2k power at most, some people walk around with over twice as much HP and power levels, accompanied by the full level of benefits provided by the armor/weapon enchantment.
Yes, there's a reason to why people PvP at this level range as a joke.
The system is a joke.
If this was an oversight, then it is an oversight which simply kills this part of the game which the devs worked so hard to develop. If this was NOT an oversight and a result of an ulterior motive, then it has got to be one of the dumbest moves ever which may profit the devs in the immediate, but is bount to have ill-effects in the long term.
In this case I would simply love to bash the lame, retaarded individuals and PvP guilds, who are so insecure as to feel the need to secure an item advantage that would probably be equivalent of more than 10~15 level difference in practical terms -- simply for the purpose of slaughtering 99% of the players who would never pose a challenge, and winning 99% of their matches in a landslide. Yes, folks, some of those lamers and their "rank management" actually begins this far off. I've actually seen "Dominion Champion"s and "Master Predator"s at PvP below lv70. My, my, such a shiny merit badge for clubbing baby seals. Simply, folks, while you may not realize it, this is actually a form of griefing.
However, despite my disdain for such poor and despicable behavior from worthless scummy trolls, in this case IT'S REALLY THE DEVELOPER'S OWN FAULT - MORE THAN THE TROLLS. Not thinking of the consequences, having no means of protecting the lower-level PvP scene from this kind of blatant abuse is just inexcusably bad form, and it borders on criminal negligence IMO.
That being said, I am offering a primary solution for this situation.
My suggestion
■ Regardless of what kind of enchantment one is equipped with, limit its actual performance ACCORDING to pre-set limitations imposed on that bracket
Meaning? The game will not stop you from using enchantments to gain a certain amount of advantage over others, but that amount will be inhibited by the bracket, so it's not going to let you walk around with lv70-standard enchantment performance at lv20 PvP.
Currently, there are brackets of PvP for every 10 levels until max level, a total of 7 brackets.. the following, would be the restrictions I would request the devs employ in PvP.
In the [lv10~19] bracket, the first 10 levels after PvP is enabled, even if you wear a rank12 enchantment it's PvP performance will be restricted to the rank2 version. Wep/arm enchantments (dunno if there's equipment with wep/arm slots at this level.. but...) will have no effect. Much the same up to [lv40~49] bracket, where the enchantments will now be open up to rare-level performance... all the way up to [lv60~69] bracket, where rank10s and perfect grade performance will be allowed (one might realize that this is the range of performance that existed when lv60 was max level gained).
So, in a nutshell, you can wear enchantments. You can where rank12s and transcendent ones if you want. But when you're in PvP and not in PvE, the performance will be adequately suppressed down to the imposed bracket limit. You still have a strong advantage -- just no so broken as walking around in rank12s and transcendents when everyone is at lv40.
This should at least remedy the insufferable amount of gear difference which just simply drives away the will to queue and play PvP at lower level ranges.
Of course, I'm a realist. I know even when this happens, many pug/casual players will still be so undergeared as to even lower than their current level standard, that they will be crushed easily. However, at least if those who want to PvP at these lower levels take the time and effort to get decent contemporary gear, it will give a quite noticeably fair ground to fight upon -- at least much better than when there were no such restrictions at all.
There are different types of players, and among them there are PvPers. I consider myself a predominantly a PvP gamer, and while I wouldn't shy away from a good PvE run with my friends or guildies, in truth I really don't find any enjoyment in facing down and fighting enemies that are bound by the limits of dumb AI.
The level up process from lv10 to lv70, is for us, not much more than a chore. Even while at low levels we'd love to enjoy PvP as much as we can. But in truth, finding a match that runs is first a rare thing to happen in the first place, and compared to the earlier days of NW, (dunno about others but) I can really feel how much people have just dumped the entire PvP section of their game when they are between lv10 ~ lv69.
This is because, mostly, everyone treats PvP at this level ranges as a joke... and in truth, the more we are 'veterans' and the more we are 'familiar' to what PvP is like in this game, we know the reason behind it as well, don't we?
In level ranges where the player's builds, powers, and individual skill level is yet incomplete, the more it becomes dependent on gear level. Many builds don't really take off until at least going over lv50, as well as in an environment like this even the player with slightest more experience holds a big advantage over others. These are all causes of imbalances at the low-level PvP scene, but in truth these 'imbalances' are NOTHING compared to just how seriously broken the relative power balance becomes when high-rank enchantments are involved.
The difference between what the PvP players of NW have dubbed in disdain, "TWINKS", and the normal/average geared players in the low levels (...or even some of the more keenly PvP-focused people who'd at least prepare themselves with basic tenacity gear and low-rank enchantments...), is so insufferably huge that IMO it actually exceeds the difference between a fresh level70 and a max-BiS lv70 character.
Whether through direct purchase or through guild support, (...or in some cases illegally exploited AD stashed in mule accounts through active abuse of bugs), these "twinks" are armed to the teeth with enchants easily over rank9~10, fully toting Transcendent level armor/weapon enchantments.
At a level range where average players would barely have over 10k HP with maybe 2k power at most, some people walk around with over twice as much HP and power levels, accompanied by the full level of benefits provided by the armor/weapon enchantment.
Yes, there's a reason to why people PvP at this level range as a joke.
The system is a joke.
If this was an oversight, then it is an oversight which simply kills this part of the game which the devs worked so hard to develop. If this was NOT an oversight and a result of an ulterior motive, then it has got to be one of the dumbest moves ever which may profit the devs in the immediate, but is bount to have ill-effects in the long term.
In this case I would simply love to bash the lame, retaarded individuals and PvP guilds, who are so insecure as to feel the need to secure an item advantage that would probably be equivalent of more than 10~15 level difference in practical terms -- simply for the purpose of slaughtering 99% of the players who would never pose a challenge, and winning 99% of their matches in a landslide. Yes, folks, some of those lamers and their "rank management" actually begins this far off. I've actually seen "Dominion Champion"s and "Master Predator"s at PvP below lv70. My, my, such a shiny merit badge for clubbing baby seals. Simply, folks, while you may not realize it, this is actually a form of griefing.
However, despite my disdain for such poor and despicable behavior from worthless scummy trolls, in this case IT'S REALLY THE DEVELOPER'S OWN FAULT - MORE THAN THE TROLLS. Not thinking of the consequences, having no means of protecting the lower-level PvP scene from this kind of blatant abuse is just inexcusably bad form, and it borders on criminal negligence IMO.
That being said, I am offering a primary solution for this situation.
My suggestion
■ Regardless of what kind of enchantment one is equipped with, limit its actual performance ACCORDING to pre-set limitations imposed on that bracket
Meaning? The game will not stop you from using enchantments to gain a certain amount of advantage over others, but that amount will be inhibited by the bracket, so it's not going to let you walk around with lv70-standard enchantment performance at lv20 PvP.
Currently, there are brackets of PvP for every 10 levels until max level, a total of 7 brackets.. the following, would be the restrictions I would request the devs employ in PvP.
[lv10 ~ 19] normal: ~rank2 / weapon/armor: ~no effect
[lv20 ~ 29] normal: ~rank3 / weapon/armor: ~no effect
[lv30 ~ 39] normal: ~rank4 / weapon/armor: ~lesser
[lv40 ~ 49] normal: ~rank5 / weapon/armor: ~normal
[lv50 ~ 59] normal: ~rank6 / weapon/armor: ~greater
[lv60 ~ 69] normal: ~rank10 / weapon/armor: ~perfect
[lv70 ~ ] no inhibition
In the [lv10~19] bracket, the first 10 levels after PvP is enabled, even if you wear a rank12 enchantment it's PvP performance will be restricted to the rank2 version. Wep/arm enchantments (dunno if there's equipment with wep/arm slots at this level.. but...) will have no effect. Much the same up to [lv40~49] bracket, where the enchantments will now be open up to rare-level performance... all the way up to [lv60~69] bracket, where rank10s and perfect grade performance will be allowed (one might realize that this is the range of performance that existed when lv60 was max level gained).
So, in a nutshell, you can wear enchantments. You can where rank12s and transcendent ones if you want. But when you're in PvP and not in PvE, the performance will be adequately suppressed down to the imposed bracket limit. You still have a strong advantage -- just no so broken as walking around in rank12s and transcendents when everyone is at lv40.
This should at least remedy the insufferable amount of gear difference which just simply drives away the will to queue and play PvP at lower level ranges.
Of course, I'm a realist. I know even when this happens, many pug/casual players will still be so undergeared as to even lower than their current level standard, that they will be crushed easily. However, at least if those who want to PvP at these lower levels take the time and effort to get decent contemporary gear, it will give a quite noticeably fair ground to fight upon -- at least much better than when there were no such restrictions at all.
Stop making excuses. Be a man.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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New players' 1st experience in PVP usually begins when their quest brings them to Trade of Blades to learn about PVP.
If they get slaughtered daily by whales with R10-12 enchants, chances are, the negative experience will turn some of them away from PVP as they progress to L70, thus shrinking the already small PVP community.
Which is a spitting image of what happened to games like Champions Online. Such potential, that game, and yet in the end its just a handful of people wondering whatever happened to PvP... which they usually only need to look in the mirror and see just who drove out all the fresh new blood from the community by griefing and exploiting the hell out of others.
Everyday, the lower-level PvP queues are getting longer. People are already starting to feel the shrink.
And when that day comes, who will the whales be using their wallet-pasted AD spent overbuffed trinkets?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
That was late in M5... about 45 days before the release of M6. I did not touch PvP until I hit 60... and I discovered the same thing I experienced before. I did not start to PvP until M6 hit... because I needed gear and we all figured that the easiest t1 and t2 to get was in PvP.
Now, I can say with a certain amount of truth... that I know a lot more about PvP than I ever did.
I would have taken a knee right there... and the 30 minute leaver penalty.
I would prefer it if all non-pvp gear was normalised to the appropriate level, to make it more skill based. Especially when NCL is concerned, you can't have a competitive league with any integrity where the more cash you spend the greater the advantage you get.
Unfortunately the game has reached the stage where people just want to farm with no regard to actual PvP, and people who genuinely want to play games for the fun of it end up just being farmed and quit. Something needs to be done.
Consider this. They developed a D&D game that is very true to the original D&D. Now I ask, when has Dungeon & Dragons EVER (going all the way back to pencil and paper) been about PvP?
Yes, the current trend is about PvP but maybe that is not the game the Dev's had in mind and wanted to make. Sure, they would be stupid not to include some PvP for those that want it but, at the end of the day, they are making the game they want and they hope people want to play it. It's like any other game, when EA sports made the FIFA game, they did NOT make it for people that do not like soccer. And if a bunch of people come on their forums and say make your game more like rugby, they probably won't listen too much to those people.
And of course one could say that it's stupid not to make a good PVP experience if that's what people want. But, again, it's not ALL people that want PvP in an MMO and it will always be impossible to make a game that caters to every niche at once.
People who LOVE PvP have no problems paying lot of money to be the best.
Business is dictated by what will make money. In order to do charity work one may have to actually have a real job to pay bills. I am hoping that you get the analogy.
I personally only started playing PVP more often after I've exhausted all the PVE content.
And yah, drkbodhi is right, PVP brings in the dough for the developers.
...2.8k IL at lv67... this is probably higher IL than about half of the PvP population at lv70.
...come to think of it, its no wonder average players are so terrible in PvP even at lv70. If this kind of krap is what they have to endure every day then they'd probably not play PvP at all, and in many cases they'd probably not have played even 50 matches when they enter domination of GG when they reach lv70.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
LOLz...unfair yea....
this NW pvp its all about gears....ive read in other thread..some1 said its not all about gear..skills are main factor..
well ofc vet players more skilled thn the newplayers...but imagine if Lewis Hamilton (very skilled racer) ride with pick-up truck...rofl
And all of this matters because of all veteran did.....maybe i want to ask all of vet players here.....are you/ did you ever use this method?,..put all of your BiS encmnt to your alts, and stomprolfed newbies?...well ....only you and God knows.....
im my self only play NW 2+months...when 1st make a new class introduced in mod6..an OP..im pvp at 11..i got keep insta killed by geared OP..lol...im deleting my toon right away..pissed..and then,.. guess what i choosed TR...more survivability...
maybe why so many ppl playing TR...lol just a thought...
anyway ....
what kweassa said =
[lv10 ~ 19] normal: ~rank2 / weapon/armor: ~no effect
[lv20 ~ 29] normal: ~rank3 / weapon/armor: ~no effect
[lv30 ~ 39] normal: ~rank4 / weapon/armor: ~lesser
[lv40 ~ 49] normal: ~rank5 / weapon/armor: ~normal
[lv50 ~ 59] normal: ~rank6 / weapon/armor: ~greater
[lv60 ~ 69] normal: ~rank10 / weapon/armor: ~perfect
[lv70 ~ ] no inhibition
this can be done,....
but IMO its more easier if all gears have level requirement...ALL!!... off/def enchntments, Artifacts,weap/arm enchnt etc...or more extreme..all that gears..its BIND to character LOLz...so nomore Vet's ALTs...abusing the system to stomprofled newbies...
just my 2cents...
In my case, my characters during level-up phase, generally have much better performance than random casual PvP players who enter PvP with like 600 IL. But this is more of how newbies are generally clueless about how to arm themselves rather than me investing much into gearing, because generally the only enchants I tend to heavily rely on my alts are those associated with XP bonuses.
In most cases I'm usually at where I consider to be "contemporary and reasonable" amount of gear advantage over others, because it's nothing more than a simple series of searches in the AH. Yes, I invest in my characters even at lower levels, but I do it by getting the contemporary blue gear that fits my level. Generally every 5 levels I'll do an AH search so my gear level never lags behind my actual level. I also specifically look for Tenacity gear, and those with stat performance that fit my current build. Most of the enchants, aside from XP boosts which don't effect PvP in any way, are rank5s or rank6s. ALL of these can be bought, at the lowest, hundreds of AD, or at the most maybe 10k AD per piece.
Considering our daily limit in AD refining is (still) 24k AD, I don't consider this to be unreasonable at all. At least, compare this to the twinks who walk into PvP with:
5x r12 Radiants into defense slots (2 x ring, belt, armor, pants) = +14k HP
4x r12 Radiants into offense slots (main, offhand, neck, shirt) = +2.8k power
T.Vorpal into mainhand slot for +50% stronger crits
T.Negation into armor slot for +30% higher DR
...at lower levels where an average chatacter would be walking around with 12k HP / 1.5k power, 15% crit chance and maybe 15~20% DR at most. From enchants alone, and not even counting the gear, that's more than twice the HP, more than twice the power, imcomparable difference in attack strength as well as damage reduction.
How anyone walks around with this much overgeared advantage and boasts about it... I really don't comprehend. It's like the snot-drippin' 12th grade bully kicking around puppies and boasting about how he's so strong. A dumb, pish-poor attitude that does nothing but infuriate people, drive them away from PvP, take away from their own fun of PvP by forcing all the opponents into the campfire in the first 2 mins of the game.. and then spending the rest 8 minutes doing nothing but standing around.
All that amount of gear to achieve that??
*pssst...* guess what they became after they do reach max level. Anyone ever wonder where those totallty laame, disgusting BiS-trollmades that enter PuG GG queues, come from? There's your answer right there.
These guys aren't PvPers. They're griefers. They don't enjoy the aspect of combat between people, the exchange of blows, the exchange of tactics and brainactivity, like most of us do. They enjoy their fantasies of power and domination they "assert" over others by presenting themselves as the unbeatable, unkillable band of elites.
(...and of course the moment that fantasy is shattered they leave GG, the entire trollmade just walks out. Talk about skill-less dweeebs...)
Actually, you're right. It is much easier and direct to simply implement a level restriction on enchantments. But the reason I'm suggesting a 'more rounded, detour of an approach' is solely because when that happens, the PvErs will yet start another tantrum about how their PvE toon gets ruined because of PvPers.
Oh yes. I can certainly guarantee you that.
It doesn't matter to them that by doing the same thing they're walking into PvE quests and zones with gear/spec that makes the entire game content obsolete. PvErs don't have any concept of balance in the first place. Since no NPN/AI controlled character ever complains about it, they think its OK that no matter how much content-breaking amount of power and damage and defense and heals they tote around, it's OK, and any balancing that would subtract any amount of numbers from ther precious specs, they will entirely blame it on PvP.
It's an attempt to avoid that fiasco as a whole.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
hahaha....+10000
i cant agreed more...i forgot about the PVE things...lolz...
hopefully DeVs looked into this matter...make pvp all levels fun again...