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Your "Fixes" to the Vote-to-Kick System Make it Worse
wanderingkyng
Member Posts: 280 Arc User
New players in an instance cannot be kicked right away; there is a three minute buffer before kicking is allowed, but we firmly encourage adventurers to not kick your own party members unless absolutely necessary. Queues will also respect roles when refilling, meaning if a Great Weapon Fighter is kicked, only a DPS can fill that role again. Finally, if a certain number of players are kicked from an instance, the queue will stop refilling completely, leaving anyone left to fend for themselves.
Many many problems with these fixes:
1) The primary issue with the current system involves players kicking at loot drops which this doesn't even address
2) The top reason people actually need to kick is to balance their group composition because your ignorant queue system constantly composes groups with multiple tanks and healers, and this is the only type of kicking your new rules prevent
3) These changes make the problem with poor group balancing worse, not better. When I kick a DPS because the group needs a healer, forcing in another DPS is asinine. When I kick the second guardian fighter because the group doesn't need two tanks, forcing in another GF is asinine
4) What about DPS Clerics and other oddball specializations? How is your role-replacement system recognizing such things?
5) Don't even get me started on all the problems with breaking an instance after a certain number of vote kicks. How are people who have just joined a group to know they're already one kick from some arbitrary limit? Will people in these instances be informed they will no longer be matched or are they left to wonder?
This is just some feedback. Hopefully someone is listening. *sigh*
I encourage discussion on this topic. What do you all think of the change? Is it a positive or a negative change? Let's get this conversation going!
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Comments
I like the limit that is being set on the number of vote kicks so the weaker people who really feel like they need to insta kick duplicate classes, decide they need a healer at the final boss when they'd run that far without one, or a class they don't like or whatever arbitrary reason they come up with that day, since it pushes them to (1) git gud (2) be proactive and pre-form the group ahead of time to suit their needs and let those who don't mind the existing set up to continue. Frankly, if I get into a random group and don't like the set up then I leave since I'm the one with the problem.
As far as the Boot n Loot, that still needs some work. I would like to see something put in place that once the boss fight has been initiated, VTK is disabled completely and is not re-instituted until a full 5 minutes after everyone is out of combat. This gives people a fair chance at the loot they helped to earn.
The only time I get kicked, is from idiots who want the loot at the end. After the boss is dead.
This update does nothing to discourage that in any way.
It needs to be fixed, that once you hit the boss kicking is not allowed.
These changes will kill the game completely. There were numerous suggestions that would have worked, but what do they do instead? Find their own "better" way... Nice!
How does your new system prevent the "boot and loot"?
They havn't even fixed the number one issue which was kicking at boss loot drops and instead added a 3 minute timer which means you waste more of your time in a dungeon and then get to see the protectors enclave loading screen.
And really, are you having a laugh with putting this in:
'but we firmly encourage adventurers to not kick your own party members unless absolutely necessary'
Yeah well let me tell you when they think its absolutely necessary, when its at the boss loot drops thats when.
You lot just seem to talk the talk but not walk the walk.
FeelTheBern
Make a no kick cool down apply that's longer than it takes for the loot window to expire. That's probably the only fix you need.
If that new lead developer thought of this then I'm not looking forward to the future of Neverwinter because clearly no one listened to any of our feedback.
P.S. fix the lostmauth dungeon. If you don't take the left chest it will never change each time you go in for that day. Sometimes it persists to the next day.
Scourge Warlock
I can deal with the timed out issue, I understand what is required growth wise accommodating XBOX traffic, but bundle that with the present policies with booting, that weighs heavily on me. That's a challenge that I will walk away from.
.. Teucer (HR) / Maximus Decimus (DC) .. GT: ApexDemon
From what I can tell from these notes, it does not. Boot and Loot will carry on.
I'd LOVE for Strumslinger or a dev to hop on here and assure us differently. I don't think anyone really complains about being booted when they first join a dungeon. Oh well.. 30 seconds of my time wasted. Its the people who have been in the dungeon for 45 mins and are booted just before / during / after the last boss fight that need the boot immunity.
Maybe something like. ."if you have been with a group for longer than 5 mins, and you are not afk (sort of the same afk rules as in PvP), you are immune to kick"
Unfortunately, people will always find ways around anything coded into the game. Its a terrible outlook, but people here should assume every stranger in NW is a greedy, selfish, self-centered d-bag who is conspiring with every OTHER stranger to screw you out of any loot. Find a guild. Run dungeons with them.
Another issue with the booting is the glitch that happens right before the ambush for shores. If you don't have a team member before fighting the gollum you are stuck at the count down with new members joining and stopping you from entering the ambush.
Do the developers come on to discuss these concerns or is there a community manager who does? I'm new to the forums and haven't found that info.
1) Can't initiate a VTK during combat
2) Can't initiate a VTK while there is a loot roll going.
3) Can't initiate a VTK after final boss is dead (This one is likely pointless, but I have been booted once before after loot roll was completed, but before getting chest...I mean...why? lol)
THAT'S IT!!!! Fixes everything everything except people being jerks (Like booting you right outside the final bosses room or something), but so long as there's a boot system at all...there will still be jerks. I know there are channels on Twitch devoted to just booting people to make people mad....
This is the first game I've ever spent money on (beyond buying a game and bringing it home to play), and I'm in the 40-50 yrs old age group. I have money to spend, and I like spending it on this game. (Okay, maybe that is a tad too much. I do spend money on this game. There; that's more realistic.)
However, the boot-and-loot problem is the biggest problem with the game, currently. It is so disheartening to work your way through a dungeon only to get dropped to the nearest zone (or Protector's) when the boss dies and/or good loot drops! I sat for a long time one night seriously considering never starting the game again. It was that much of a disappointment. The disappointment was as much with the humans involved as it was about the time I wasted.
I'm not trying to be a person who threatens to leave, etc., etc., because there are plenty of people who would fill my spot on the revenue tree. What I am trying to express from a real, human perspective is that boot-and-loot is the single biggest issue that will make me turn away from this awesome game you all have worked so hard to develop.
I read game forums from time to time, and typically I see whining over small issues that are inherent in complex software titles. I don't get involved. I usually feel sorry for the forum/community personnel. The boot-and-loot issue is a real impediment to enjoyment for a lot of players, as can be seen by the posts detailing the issue.
When I started playing I thought the frequency of Vote to Kick was high, and it bothered me. I reasoned that people were looking for a certain group composition or player competency, and I just took it as part of the playing field. It shouldn't be like that, but I was willing to look past the inconvenience of queuing, getting booted, queuing, rinse, repeat…
What I'm not able to get past is boot-and-loot. My experience with it is directly in line with other posters, above: After the Ambush on the Shores Skirmish (non-epic, in my case), and after various bosses in epic dungeons: Once the mobs are cleared and/or the loot drops (even if rolling on it has started), I've been booted. No explanation, no precursor, nothing. Just get booted, so (ostensibly) a group of people working together can loot without competition.
It's appalling, and I was hoping for more of a solution that what is proposed here. Decent people will still be at the mercy of unscrupulous people. And although that may always be the case on some level, we deserve a system where that sort of behavior is actually difficult to achieve. I am by no means a hardcore player, and I have been the victim of boot-and-loot three times in the last week!
Please, I'm begging as an adult player who wants to continue funding this game: Fix Boot-and-Loot!
--Branforth
Almost 2 months ago, I had a twitter conversation with them, about how they seemingly CONDONE this grief mechanic. I included @xbox and @xboxP3 in hopes Spencer and the XBOX tweeters would see it.
Sure enough, @neverwinteronline or whatever their official twitter is, replied with the classic " We do not condone this behavior, and will have a fix for it ASAP ". This was in concern to the boot and loot scenario, so we all thought they were focusing on the boot and loot. Guess they not only condone it, but they lie about it.
Here is the Tweet, and their reply.
Straight from the horses mouth. They bait and switched. Not only does their fix justify my suspicions they condone the behavior, but it labels them as hypocrital and dishonest to imply otherwise. The posts they have about " We discourage, or you are bad and know who you are ", are basically put there just to amuse their developers who are laughing all the way to the bank. They should not be supported. This team needs the investors of ARC Games to see what is going on. At the very least, the Customer Relations at XBOX should know fraudulent activity should not be allowed. There is a basic principle that if you buy a Microsoft Product, and due to abilities out of your control, others keep you from being able to pursue what you have purchased, they are supposed to take action and step in on these 3rd party developers. This isn't a case of Call of Duty, or Halo. This is a case of paying a lot of money, and not be allowed to enjoy what you buy. Free to play is one thing, but once you invest capital, Microsoft and Cryptic have to bear responsibility to keep their playerbase in check from stealing from other players.
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