If there was anything I would like to ask for a change with Scoundrels, I'd ask for either a tweak, or a replacement to Tier1 Bloody Brawler and Tier4 Savage Blows, because these two feats really don't do jackchit -- neither in PvE, nor in PvP.
The amount of bonuses to life steal these two feats provide are miniscule, and generally not useful enough to take effect. Even when you take both of them, investing a woppin' 10 points into it, it still don't do chit.
Compare it to the alternate choice, Tier1 Roll with the Punches and Tier4 Concussive Strikes.
The former provides a solid, permanent 2.5% increase in deflection which synergizes well with the base deflection chance of TRs, and further synergies with other deflection options within the path.
The latter, has a small but nifty use in PvP, and significantly better effect in PvE where in both cases, can be utilized as both ST and AoE CCs.
The 1.0~1.25s daze in PvP is not potent enough to be used as a mainstream CC but still very useful in setting up a big attack -- a singular throw, or a slash from your dagger and the momentary daze will disable enemy dodge long enough for you to follow-up with your big attack. In PvE it's a 2.5s daze that procs every 5 seconds, an extremely powerful tool of both defense and offense.
It's just no contest. I wouldn't put points into Bloody Brawler or Savage Blows even if I had points to waste. I'd just rather invest them into something else more useful.
...
If it were up to me, I would:
(1) buff the Bloody Brawler to 1/2/3/4/5%, and then combine of Bloody Brawler (2) combine Bloody Brawler and Savge Blows into one (3) place it Tier5 instead of Low Blows (4) move Low Blows to Tier4 where Savage Blows was
So overall, when you come to Tier4 you get a choice of either more CCs, or more damage. When you get to Tier5, you get a choice between two strong modes of defense -- a (max) 10% increase in LS, or a temporary 10% increase in defelct.
At Tier1, make a new feat that adds 1/2/3/4/5% more deflection severity, and I'd say Scoundrel's complete.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
well no, with all the respect scoundrel cc is inferior to any other tr. why? because the halved effect in pvp procs before the dazes from the actual ability.
A stupid example: capstone proc'd and not available for 15 seconds. Concussive strike is available. dazing strike on enemy ( should be a 3-4 seconds daze right? ) no. Concussive procs, good bye dazing strike daze....welcome 0.5s daze.
the only thing worth something is concussive strike as an interrupt... putting more than 1 points there is wasted.
if we are talking about pve, i can see it working more or less but without an aoe at will the cap stone is still subpar.
what scoundrel needs to be viable is something like: 1) the dazes from feats stack with the dazes from encounters. 2) if the enemy is cc immune ----> 40% bonus damage. 3) a strong increase in lifesteal values 4) 100% immunity to stealth loss without tenacious concilement.
with the above i wouldnt touch any other trees.
I agree with you regarding the odd interaction with the scoundrel CC in PvP and that should be an easy no brainer fix.
I am uncertain about a cc immune damage bonus but feel it should be handled similar to other cc classes when dealing with such situations but I feel that 40% would certainly be too much.
I think the scoundrel could use some improvement in lifesteal or another way of healing (such as an additional (but greatly reduced) version of the older lifesteal off of every hit (and to stress something small but constant) and this could even be implemented as temporary hp.
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I had thought about how it might be good to compile a list of TR issues that we could see how many of us are in agreement with. I suppose it would be best to keep them separate by tree maybe.
I had touched on the annoyances I have with shadowborn in another thread and also how the executioner capstone is felt to be broken by many of us and it actually only works as described on 3 powers. Here is an excerpt of what I indicated on a bug report another had in regards to this:
"Many powers will not activate shadow of demise and will cause it to be lost. Powers like bait and switch, impossible to catch, smoke bomb, path of the blade, deft strike, shadowy disappearance -- if used from stealth will nullify the capstone and the shadow of demise effect will not be activated. These powers have special actions from being used from stealth and in order to preserve the capstone the TR would have to abandon the special bonuses.
The powers that I can confirm that actually activate it are shadow strike, lashing blade, impact shot, the first activation of Vengeance's Pursuit (but not the second activation), dazing strike, blitz, wicked reminder and blade fury . Since shadow of demise only affects a single target, if you use dazing strike, blitz, wicked reminder or blade fury you have no idea which target this is and your follow up damage over the next 6 seconds is often going to be put to the wrong target and again wasted (from my testing it seems that the selected recipient of shadow of demise is not random as it will always be the same target (if tested on training dummies for instance) but you would have no way of knowing ahead of time.
Dailies and At-wills will not activate shadow of demise and if you don't use the few correct encounters indicated above before depleting your stealth you will not gain the shadow of demise effect and it will be wasted.
So, to sum things up, most powers will not activate Shadow of Demise and cause it to be spent without being used. Of the powers that will activate it most will apply it to a random target if multiple targets are in the area and often the followup damage will be misplaced and lost."
No, Scoundrel need a boost against CC immune targets, they are useless against bosses and some players. I've respecced for this reason only. Otherwise it's the best of the bunch. I think that a 10% flat damage bonus in the Capstone could do.
Exchange one of the Feats of the Scoundrel against a new one:
Weakend Everytime the Scoundrel applies a control effect to an control immun foe, the foe gains a stack of Weakend for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times. For every stack of Weakend on the foe grants the scoundrel a 0,3/0,6/0,9/1,2/1,5% damage bonus.
Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
Comments
The amount of bonuses to life steal these two feats provide are miniscule, and generally not useful enough to take effect. Even when you take both of them, investing a woppin' 10 points into it, it still don't do chit.
Compare it to the alternate choice, Tier1 Roll with the Punches and Tier4 Concussive Strikes.
The former provides a solid, permanent 2.5% increase in deflection which synergizes well with the base deflection chance of TRs, and further synergies with other deflection options within the path.
The latter, has a small but nifty use in PvP, and significantly better effect in PvE where in both cases, can be utilized as both ST and AoE CCs.
The 1.0~1.25s daze in PvP is not potent enough to be used as a mainstream CC but still very useful in setting up a big attack -- a singular throw, or a slash from your dagger and the momentary daze will disable enemy dodge long enough for you to follow-up with your big attack. In PvE it's a 2.5s daze that procs every 5 seconds, an extremely powerful tool of both defense and offense.
It's just no contest. I wouldn't put points into Bloody Brawler or Savage Blows even if I had points to waste. I'd just rather invest them into something else more useful.
...
If it were up to me, I would:
(1) buff the Bloody Brawler to 1/2/3/4/5%, and then combine of Bloody Brawler
(2) combine Bloody Brawler and Savge Blows into one
(3) place it Tier5 instead of Low Blows
(4) move Low Blows to Tier4 where Savage Blows was
So overall, when you come to Tier4 you get a choice of either more CCs, or more damage. When you get to Tier5, you get a choice between two strong modes of defense -- a (max) 10% increase in LS, or a temporary 10% increase in defelct.
At Tier1, make a new feat that adds 1/2/3/4/5% more deflection severity, and I'd say Scoundrel's complete.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I am uncertain about a cc immune damage bonus but feel it should be handled similar to other cc classes when dealing with such situations but I feel that 40% would certainly be too much.
I think the scoundrel could use some improvement in lifesteal or another way of healing (such as an additional (but greatly reduced) version of the older lifesteal off of every hit (and to stress something small but constant) and this could even be implemented as temporary hp.
-------------------
I had thought about how it might be good to compile a list of TR issues that we could see how many of us are in agreement with. I suppose it would be best to keep them separate by tree maybe.
I had touched on the annoyances I have with shadowborn in another thread and also how the executioner capstone is felt to be broken by many of us and it actually only works as described on 3 powers. Here is an excerpt of what I indicated on a bug report another had in regards to this:
"Many powers will not activate shadow of demise and will cause it to be lost. Powers like bait and switch, impossible to catch, smoke bomb, path of the blade, deft strike, shadowy disappearance -- if used from stealth will nullify the capstone and the shadow of demise effect will not be activated. These powers have special actions from being used from stealth and in order to preserve the capstone the TR would have to abandon the special bonuses.
The powers that I can confirm that actually activate it are shadow strike, lashing blade, impact shot, the first activation of Vengeance's Pursuit (but not the second activation), dazing strike, blitz, wicked reminder and blade fury . Since shadow of demise only affects a single target, if you use dazing strike, blitz, wicked reminder or blade fury you have no idea which target this is and your follow up damage over the next 6 seconds is often going to be put to the wrong target and again wasted (from my testing it seems that the selected recipient of shadow of demise is not random as it will always be the same target (if tested on training dummies for instance) but you would have no way of knowing ahead of time.
Dailies and At-wills will not activate shadow of demise and if you don't use the few correct encounters indicated above before depleting your stealth you will not gain the shadow of demise effect and it will be wasted.
So, to sum things up, most powers will not activate Shadow of Demise and cause it to be spent without being used. Of the powers that will activate it most will apply it to a random target if multiple targets are in the area and often the followup damage will be misplaced and lost."
Weakend
Everytime the Scoundrel applies a control effect to an control immun foe, the foe gains a stack of Weakend for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times. For every stack of Weakend on the foe grants the scoundrel a 0,3/0,6/0,9/1,2/1,5% damage bonus.