1800 k is too little. 2000k is too little too.
3k would be the best. So no one has to carry and only people with dps can do it.
That would be reasonable , right?
TBH , it could be fixed by Cryptic and make it more demanding. It maybe should be like that.
Cos right now, both higher base and lower base are unhappy with the current situation.
I am nowhere near 3k and yet I solo'd one of the clerics to 50% against the mobs. Everyone was playing with the Dreamer. some were on Linu and the 3rd was all alone. Of course we failed. A higher gear score does not mean the knowledge to dance with Tia, nor does it mean they have ability. It means they have good gear.
I know a TR, who wins the DPS race against most CW's and every SW that I run with. He has even challenged a couple of GWFs. His iLvl... is under 3k.
Setting a minimum creates an issue. This minimum creates a false sense of security in any player who has never run Tia...
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I am nowhere near 3k and yet I solo'd one of the clerics to 50% against the mobs. Everyone was playing with the Dreamer. some were on Linu and the 3rd was all alone. Of course we failed. A higher gear score does not mean the knowledge to dance with Tia, nor does it mean they have ability. It means they have good gear.
I know a TR, who wins the DPS race against most CW's and every SW that I run with. He has even challenged a couple of GWFs. His iLvl... is under 3k.
Setting a minimum creates an issue. This minimum creates a false sense of security in any player who has never run Tia...
Agreed, what is needed isn't a minimum, but the ability to preform teams.
earlier today, i went in Tiamat for first time since Mod5, and mod 6 was broken, so i dont bother going in, it wasted so much kits and potions.
we still get afkers and quitters, and we failed.
i fought to the end, and i got 1st place on top 5, and i got worst crappy rewards for all that work, rewards was a green refine stone, and a bag of 65 hoard coins.
devs still fail to tone down the horde of legion devils, they keep blinking, chain-blinkings to make cheap one shot kills. at one point, i saw 20 devils on Linu, and that is way too many and it like as if we are hitting them with toothpicks which doesnt hurt much for them.
i saved a screenshot to prove it.
Concerning min IL. When they said, that they would do a test run on preview, by chance, I was the first one to post in their thread. I asked the community to join with chars around 1.8k IL. Guess what happened?
Some problems are selfmade.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
One of few ppl who played it WAI by the Devs. I had no time to participate, but judging by the feedback, ppl had BIS players in every instance.
The only thing similar to a real run was the CW, who used inprisonmend on a head, to take out dmg, making it immune to dmg.^^ He posted this himself in the thread. The reactions of other players were somehow amusing (TBH, if I would have had him in my group, I would have felt the stong urge to bash my head against the keyboard, too).
One of few ppl who played it WAI by the Devs. I had no time to participate, but judging by the feedback, ppl had BIS players in every instance.
The only thing similar to a real run was the CW, who used inprisonmend on a head, to take out dmg, making it immune to dmg.^^ He posted this himself in the thread. The reactions of other players were somehow amusing (TBH, if I would have had him in my group, I would have felt the stong urge to bash my head against the keyboard, too).
That is so trolly in a crazy hilarious kind of way. LOL
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gornonthecobMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 421Arc User
edited June 2015
It would be WONDERFUL if they would just add 2 minutes to her timer. Seriously, why are we being thrown into a group full of random people who have the minimum gear score and being punished for it?
Either give us more time, or let us build our own groups.
I spent actual money $$$$ (does that get your attention?) on Dragon Keys 2 days ago, and haven't been able to use 1 yet. I'm sick of losing battles that I can't control.
Please.. take your righteous indignation elsewhere. If you don't want to play with strangers, don't play an MMO. And the money card you played only makes you look like a spoiled little rich kid who cries because he doesn't have absolute freedom. Please raise the game or send someone mature to take your place.
That said, they really should fix that timer to not include the display of the movie at the end.
Well he is right. If they adjusted the timer slightly and got rid of the death animation (where you lose about 4-6 seconds), it would be a bit more reasonable.
It would be WONDERFUL if they would just add 2 minutes to her timer. Seriously, why are we being thrown into a group full of random people who have the minimum gear score and being punished for it?
Either give us more time, or let us build our own groups.
I spent actual money $$$$ (does that get your attention?) on Dragon Keys 2 days ago, and haven't been able to use 1 yet. I'm sick of losing battles that I can't control.
All is see is ............... I.............spent..............money........,.........gimme................attention........... and 2 dragon keys................
jk jk
dont take me seriously.. i had to do it.. it was too tempting not to.. :P
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
They may as well just take Tiamat out of the game. Every time I'd try it in mod 6, there would be 5-10 players at the heads, and the rest AFK at the campfire. The people at the clerics just throw mobs around, in an apparent attempt to sabotage the instance for everyone else. It's just a waste of time now. It serves no purpose. Nobody would miss it if it were gone.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Honestly... I have not bothered with WoD in over a month. Making it as hard as they did and without boosting the rewards... make it less valuable for the effort compared to other places. So removing Tiamat, would not bother me.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Usually if you have 3000 IL you do not even need to be in Tiamat.
ding ding ding.. even most 2.5k people have no real use of tiamat.. it has no rewards worthy of completing it per se.
Problem A.. it gives rewards for not winning and
Problem B... the rewards it gives for winning are trash.
Add A+B together and it = not many people who could help do this on a regular basis across multi instances are no longer doing it.
Sure there are a few instances a day doing it and winning .. usually through channel timers. I dont think your going to see many just odd random instances just completing it any longer.
BTW here is a quick synopsis, if your having issues with the mob packs in Tiamat, your not ready.
If your ARP is less then 30% on your dps class, your really not ready.
The mob packs are not really any more difficult then in mod 5, its just the heads that need more ARP then they used to.
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crystal892fMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 385Arc User
BTW here is a quick synopsis, if your having issues with the mob packs in Tiamat, your not ready.
Uuumm...no. Getting hit with 50k+ rush attacks from Erinyes is nothing a SW can do anything about (I have close to 100k HP and still die to 2 attacks - and these nasty women do these attacks with great pleasure). So please don't generalize.
Agreed, what is needed isn't a minimum, but the ability to preform teams.
You do need a minimum. Really. Not around 3k, that would be insane. but 2k is acceptable. A reasonable team effort made by 25 2k IL people should be possible.
As for the ability test, there are ways to get that done. Make it a requirement to finish 5 different dungeons / skirmishes a total of 20 times. This ensures they at least unlock shar and DR (and hopefully their desire to put effort into the campaigns) and esures they get some party experience. Can't be that hard to put a quest with a counter on it before allowing entrance. It won't cure the people of their afk attitude, but perhaps they feel more inclined to work for it if they have to work to enter. Plus you keep the 1.8k AH purchased leechers out.
And there really should be a tut. Not for me, or most people reading this. We all know the guides. But for some reason people refuse to read the forums and then complain they don't know what to do. There's no excuse for ignorance if the information is available, I agree. But if they don't look here, perhaps we'll have to force them to look somewhere before entering.
Look how many times you used "work" when talking about a game. I open this game to play, I go to my job to work.
I would say a group ranging from 2500 to 3000 would succeed (and do). I don't know why so many 1800-2000 join .. as a way of farming a couple of stones its a pretty inefficient method.
Explaining pikers is pretty easy - you can tell in less than 30 seconds if you have enough DPS to finish on time. Heck, just do a few inspects while you are waiting and you can tell before you even start.
I don't AFK, but not because I think we are going to win .. I just want to get in the highest bracket to get a better reward.
Why should players with decent gear still be doing Tiamat? The loot is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. The success rate is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Linus Favor is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> too, especially hoard coffers now drop in bundle. Artifact belts are dirt cheap. Even the artifact necks are dirt cheap.
Nothing is worthy from Tiamat. Of course, one should expect to see a lot of afkers just to get a dragon coin pouch doing the bare minimum.
To fix that, difficulty has to be adjusted to the players' gear and more importantly, rewards should be made appropriate and worthy to draw actual players instead of afkers.
Why should players with decent gear still be doing Tiamat? The loot is garbage. The success rate is garbage Linus Favor is garbage too, especially hoard coffers now drop in bundle. Artifact belts are dirt cheap. Even the artifact necks are dirt cheap.
Nothing is worthy from Tiamat. Of course, one should expect to see a lot of afkers just to get a dragon coin pouch doing the bare minimum.
To fix that, difficulty has to be adjusted to the players' gear and more importantly, rewards should be made appropriate and worthy to draw actual players instead of afkers.
Respectfully, if you are running a so-called "DPS Cleric", you shouldn't be in there. DCs should be in there to buff/debuff and heal.
Umm.... what? What path Cleric path do you think debuffs? Righteous (DPS Clerics) give:
Bear Your Sins - Foes under one of your DoT effects take 10% more damage from all sources
Condemning Gaze - Your damaging encounters apply a stack of condemning gaze for 30 sec. Foes with 5 stacks of condemning gaze take 15% more damage from all sources for 15 sec
Power of the Sun - Brand of the Sun (a DoT) reduces the target's damage and crit chance by 5%
Not to mention that any DC will be using Divine Glow (buffs/debuffs/heals/damages in an AoE) and Hallowed Ground.
But thank you for illustrating that some players believe that Devoted Cleric players should just be their live pet, so they can personally use an augment companion safely.
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
Respectfully, if you are running a so-called "DPS Cleric", you shouldn't be in there. DCs should be in there to buff/debuff and heal.
Umm.... what? What path Cleric path do you think debuffs? Righteous (DPS Clerics) give:
Bear Your Sins - Foes under one of your DoT effects take 10% more damage from all sources
Condemning Gaze - Your damaging encounters apply a stack of condemning gaze for 30 sec. Foes with 5 stacks of condemning gaze take 15% more damage from all sources for 15 sec
Power of the Sun - Brand of the Sun (a DoT) reduces the target's damage and crit chance by 5%
Not to mention that any DC will be using Divine Glow (buffs/debuffs/heals/damages in an AoE) and Hallowed Ground.
But thank you for illustrating that some players believe that Devoted Cleric players should just be their live pet, so they can personally use an augment companion safely.
DCs don't do enough damage to be DPS anything.
My DC is there to help the party.. not herself. The tiny bit of damage that a DC can roll out is a waste of the DC's abilities.
But of course I'm wrong. Except to the others who actually know how to use a DC...
Respectfully, if you are running a so-called "DPS Cleric", you shouldn't be in there. DCs should be in there to buff/debuff and heal.
Umm.... what? What path Cleric path do you think debuffs? Righteous (DPS Clerics) give:
Bear Your Sins - Foes under one of your DoT effects take 10% more damage from all sources
Condemning Gaze - Your damaging encounters apply a stack of condemning gaze for 30 sec. Foes with 5 stacks of condemning gaze take 15% more damage from all sources for 15 sec
Power of the Sun - Brand of the Sun (a DoT) reduces the target's damage and crit chance by 5%
Not to mention that any DC will be using Divine Glow (buffs/debuffs/heals/damages in an AoE) and Hallowed Ground.
But thank you for illustrating that some players believe that Devoted Cleric players should just be their live pet, so they can personally use an augment companion safely.
DCs don't do enough damage to be DPS anything.
My DC is there to help the party.. not herself. The tiny bit of damage that a DC can roll out is a waste of the DC's abilities.
But of course I'm wrong. Except to the others who actually know how to use a DC...
Um... your previous post said that DC's should be debuffing. The above feats from righteous are debuffing tiamat for the ENTIRE group of 25. I didn't even mention Weapons of Light because I was never too keen on the benefit based on the feat points. So by dismissing anyone taking that Righteous (DPS) path, yes you're wrong by your own standard.
A DC in taking the DPS path doesn't suddenly become a striker, it's mainly a debuffing path. That said, 90 - 120k empowered daunting light hits from Righteous DCs aren't rare to see, so to say they do not do enough damage is also patently false.
Being in the Righteous path also does not mean that a DC should not be healing, especially in a group. It's the class' main role designation, and not healing would be akin to a TR (striker class) only slotting stealth recovery and defensive powers.
I can guarantee you that 5 faithful DCs spamming healing word, bastion of health, warding flare or astral shield, while giving everyone gift of faith ISN'T forwarding the DPS race that is Tiamat.
BTW... standing still and proccing a big heal doesn't make you a skillful player. Any Righteous that keeps a party alive means that they skill shot all those heals and manage their party's health, while still doing their debuff/damage.
"DCs don't do enough damage to be DPS anything." - Paingiver III and Headhunter III titles would indicate otherwise...
Post edited by lilhamlet on
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instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
People ask for advice cos they need it. They are new to gaming / new to this game / new to ...just pick a reason. There is plenty.
1800 k is too little. 2000k is too little too.
3k would be the best. So no one has to carry and only people with dps can do it.
That would be reasonable , right?
TBH , it could be fixed by Cryptic and make it more demanding. It maybe should be like that.
Cos right now, both higher base and lower base are unhappy with the current situation.
So I have a CW 2.2k and a I can protect with my pet a left/right side cleric in Tiamat. What are doing the rest of 24 players?
Yesterday I played along with 31 players(?) Tiamat and after we beat Severin and 18 minutes remaining only 4 players fully protected two clerics (Linu was defensless) the rest of players were AFK. And I can tell you that average gear score of the players was 2.5k and they had legendary gear on them...
The new changes are not enough...and also lonely players must have a chance (I was not to lucky with my last 2 guilds)
So what's the catch with the Tiamat?...
Respectfully, if you are running a so-called "DPS Cleric", you shouldn't be in there. DCs should be in there to buff/debuff and heal.
Umm.... what? What path Cleric path do you think debuffs? Righteous (DPS Clerics) give:
Bear Your Sins - Foes under one of your DoT effects take 10% more damage from all sources
Condemning Gaze - Your damaging encounters apply a stack of condemning gaze for 30 sec. Foes with 5 stacks of condemning gaze take 15% more damage from all sources for 15 sec
Power of the Sun - Brand of the Sun (a DoT) reduces the target's damage and crit chance by 5%
Not to mention that any DC will be using Divine Glow (buffs/debuffs/heals/damages in an AoE) and Hallowed Ground.
But thank you for illustrating that some players believe that Devoted Cleric players should just be their live pet, so they can personally use an augment companion safely.
DCs don't do enough damage to be DPS anything.
My DC is there to help the party.. not herself. The tiny bit of damage that a DC can roll out is a waste of the DC's abilities.
But of course I'm wrong. Except to the others who actually know how to use a DC...
You apparently know little about the damage potential of the DC, especially against high HP target. The other side is, that all the while, the damage of EVERY player attacking their target is up to twice as high. It just doesn't show up in the DC's DPS line, but on that player's.
Actually, Tia's head phase is a perfect situation to bring these skills to bear. Dungeon runs are a slightly different rap, but that's not this thread's topic...
Should you ever wish to see the difference, parse a run with a Righteous DC via ACT and you'll see on _your_ skills "effectiveness" that he/she's been there, and how much DPS he/she has made everybody do.
But of course, prejudices have it otherwise, so let's help lose the runs by respeccing to full healbot. Everybody's convenience - not having to take that horrible 20sec walk from the campfire - is the penultimate purpose of the DC...
- steady income. Orbs + cloaks + shards + cult pack bag that drops from failure all those can give some AD to go around, which is pretty good considering the low sources of AD-making mod6 has.
- Linus for alts
One channel is doing double-wins often, even triple-wins when many fabled sw and high dpsers are playing together during tier4. I agree when you ask for raids and to able to go in with 5 groups but if it gets nerfed any harder than this it would become way too much easy for some folks, making the prices of everything drop even more and it would make Tiamat not an epic encounter to enjoy but a walk in a park to few experienced decently high-geared players.
To be successful in tiamat the best way to do it is to join a dedicated zerg channel and work with them to get your wins. There are plenty to join starting from 2.2k ilvl ... if all know the fight well and play in an effective manner (no time wasted in clerics phase, no gem failures, etc.) with the help of DC buff/debuff/ap gain and all other party buffs classes can give (OP, CW etc.) the dungeon is totally doable for 2kish players as it is now.
Comments
I am nowhere near 3k and yet I solo'd one of the clerics to 50% against the mobs. Everyone was playing with the Dreamer. some were on Linu and the 3rd was all alone. Of course we failed. A higher gear score does not mean the knowledge to dance with Tia, nor does it mean they have ability. It means they have good gear.
I know a TR, who wins the DPS race against most CW's and every SW that I run with. He has even challenged a couple of GWFs. His iLvl... is under 3k.
Setting a minimum creates an issue. This minimum creates a false sense of security in any player who has never run Tia...
Agreed, what is needed isn't a minimum, but the ability to preform teams.
you need both...
you can only get one
we still get afkers and quitters, and we failed.
i fought to the end, and i got 1st place on top 5, and i got worst crappy rewards for all that work, rewards was a green refine stone, and a bag of 65 hoard coins.
devs still fail to tone down the horde of legion devils, they keep blinking, chain-blinkings to make cheap one shot kills. at one point, i saw 20 devils on Linu, and that is way too many and it like as if we are hitting them with toothpicks which doesnt hurt much for them.
i saved a screenshot to prove it.
Some problems are selfmade.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
The only thing similar to a real run was the CW, who used inprisonmend on a head, to take out dmg, making it immune to dmg.^^ He posted this himself in the thread. The reactions of other players were somehow amusing (TBH, if I would have had him in my group, I would have felt the stong urge to bash my head against the keyboard, too).
That is so trolly in a crazy hilarious kind of way. LOL
Seriously, why are we being thrown into a group full of random people who have the minimum gear score and being punished for it?
Either give us more time, or let us build our own groups.
I spent actual money $$$$ (does that get your attention?) on Dragon Keys 2 days ago, and haven't been able to use 1 yet. I'm sick of losing battles that I can't control.
Locksheon Gaming
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Well he is right. If they adjusted the timer slightly and got rid of the death animation (where you lose about 4-6 seconds), it would be a bit more reasonable.
All is see is ............... I.............spent..............money........,.........gimme................attention........... and 2 dragon keys................
jk jk
dont take me seriously.. i had to do it.. it was too tempting not to.. :P
ding ding ding.. even most 2.5k people have no real use of tiamat.. it has no rewards worthy of completing it per se.
Problem A.. it gives rewards for not winning and
Problem B... the rewards it gives for winning are trash.
Add A+B together and it = not many people who could help do this on a regular basis across multi instances are no longer doing it.
Sure there are a few instances a day doing it and winning .. usually through channel timers. I dont think your going to see many just odd random instances just completing it any longer.
BTW here is a quick synopsis, if your having issues with the mob packs in Tiamat, your not ready.
If your ARP is less then 30% on your dps class, your really not ready.
The mob packs are not really any more difficult then in mod 5, its just the heads that need more ARP then they used to.
Look how many times you used "work" when talking about a game. I open this game to play, I go to my job to work.
Explaining pikers is pretty easy - you can tell in less than 30 seconds if you have enough DPS to finish on time. Heck, just do a few inspects while you are waiting and you can tell before you even start.
I don't AFK, but not because I think we are going to win .. I just want to get in the highest bracket to get a better reward.
Nothing is worthy from Tiamat. Of course, one should expect to see a lot of afkers just to get a dragon coin pouch doing the bare minimum.
To fix that, difficulty has to be adjusted to the players' gear and more importantly, rewards should be made appropriate and worthy to draw actual players instead of afkers.
Respectfully, if you are running a so-called "DPS Cleric", you shouldn't be in there. DCs should be in there to buff/debuff and heal.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Umm.... what? What path Cleric path do you think debuffs? Righteous (DPS Clerics) give:
Not to mention that any DC will be using Divine Glow (buffs/debuffs/heals/damages in an AoE) and Hallowed Ground.
But thank you for illustrating that some players believe that Devoted Cleric players should just be their live pet, so they can personally use an augment companion safely.
DCs don't do enough damage to be DPS anything.
My DC is there to help the party.. not herself. The tiny bit of damage that a DC can roll out is a waste of the DC's abilities.
But of course I'm wrong. Except to the others who actually know how to use a DC...
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Um... your previous post said that DC's should be debuffing. The above feats from righteous are debuffing tiamat for the ENTIRE group of 25. I didn't even mention Weapons of Light because I was never too keen on the benefit based on the feat points. So by dismissing anyone taking that Righteous (DPS) path, yes you're wrong by your own standard.
A DC in taking the DPS path doesn't suddenly become a striker, it's mainly a debuffing path. That said, 90 - 120k empowered daunting light hits from Righteous DCs aren't rare to see, so to say they do not do enough damage is also patently false.
Being in the Righteous path also does not mean that a DC should not be healing, especially in a group. It's the class' main role designation, and not healing would be akin to a TR (striker class) only slotting stealth recovery and defensive powers.
I can guarantee you that 5 faithful DCs spamming healing word, bastion of health, warding flare or astral shield, while giving everyone gift of faith ISN'T forwarding the DPS race that is Tiamat.
BTW... standing still and proccing a big heal doesn't make you a skillful player. Any Righteous that keeps a party alive means that they skill shot all those heals and manage their party's health, while still doing their debuff/damage.
"DCs don't do enough damage to be DPS anything." - Paingiver III and Headhunter III titles would indicate otherwise...
You're boring me.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
So I have a CW 2.2k and a I can protect with my pet a left/right side cleric in Tiamat. What are doing the rest of 24 players?
Yesterday I played along with 31 players(?) Tiamat and after we beat Severin and 18 minutes remaining only 4 players fully protected two clerics (Linu was defensless) the rest of players were AFK. And I can tell you that average gear score of the players was 2.5k and they had legendary gear on them...
The new changes are not enough...and also lonely players must have a chance (I was not to lucky with my last 2 guilds)
So what's the catch with the Tiamat?...
You apparently know little about the damage potential of the DC, especially against high HP target. The other side is, that all the while, the damage of EVERY player attacking their target is up to twice as high. It just doesn't show up in the DC's DPS line, but on that player's.
Actually, Tia's head phase is a perfect situation to bring these skills to bear. Dungeon runs are a slightly different rap, but that's not this thread's topic...
Should you ever wish to see the difference, parse a run with a Righteous DC via ACT and you'll see on _your_ skills "effectiveness" that he/she's been there, and how much DPS he/she has made everybody do.
But of course, prejudices have it otherwise, so let's help lose the runs by respeccing to full healbot. Everybody's convenience - not having to take that horrible 20sec walk from the campfire - is the penultimate purpose of the DC...
- steady income. Orbs + cloaks + shards + cult pack bag that drops from failure all those can give some AD to go around, which is pretty good considering the low sources of AD-making mod6 has.
- Linus for alts
One channel is doing double-wins often, even triple-wins when many fabled sw and high dpsers are playing together during tier4. I agree when you ask for raids and to able to go in with 5 groups but if it gets nerfed any harder than this it would become way too much easy for some folks, making the prices of everything drop even more and it would make Tiamat not an epic encounter to enjoy but a walk in a park to few experienced decently high-geared players.
To be successful in tiamat the best way to do it is to join a dedicated zerg channel and work with them to get your wins. There are plenty to join starting from 2.2k ilvl ... if all know the fight well and play in an effective manner (no time wasted in clerics phase, no gem failures, etc.) with the help of DC buff/debuff/ap gain and all other party buffs classes can give (OP, CW etc.) the dungeon is totally doable for 2kish players as it is now.