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[PvE] Astral Shield Mechanics
x1101011x
Member Posts: 87 Arc User
With PvE content nearly (or completely) one-shotting party members, I find myself wondering if non-empowered Astral Shield is better than empowered.
I currently have 92k HP. Most tanks I've seen have about 115k HP. This means my fully empowered Astral Shield absorbs (0.09)(92,000) = 8280 damage from each attack, meaning the tank effectively has a 123.3k health pool (ignoring other buffs/debuffs).
Now, Astral Shield improves defenses of allies by 40% (I assumed the +10%'s are additive). Most tanks I've seen have about 40% damage resistance.
Now, if this damage resistance is what is boosted, then the tank has a new damage resistance of (1.4)(.4) = 0.56, so he can absorb an extra (0.56 - 0.4)(115) = 18.4k damage for an effective health pool of 133.4k, the clear winner.
If the defense stat itself is what's boosted, then it will be lower due to diminishing returns, but I'm not quite sure what that curve is. With these numbers, it would take a boost of at least 7.2% DR for non-empowered Astral Shield to beat fully empowered Astral Shield.
Unfortunately, my information is incomplete and based on assumptions because the skill is very difficult to test.
Questions:
I currently have 92k HP. Most tanks I've seen have about 115k HP. This means my fully empowered Astral Shield absorbs (0.09)(92,000) = 8280 damage from each attack, meaning the tank effectively has a 123.3k health pool (ignoring other buffs/debuffs).
Now, Astral Shield improves defenses of allies by 40% (I assumed the +10%'s are additive). Most tanks I've seen have about 40% damage resistance.
Now, if this damage resistance is what is boosted, then the tank has a new damage resistance of (1.4)(.4) = 0.56, so he can absorb an extra (0.56 - 0.4)(115) = 18.4k damage for an effective health pool of 133.4k, the clear winner.
If the defense stat itself is what's boosted, then it will be lower due to diminishing returns, but I'm not quite sure what that curve is. With these numbers, it would take a boost of at least 7.2% DR for non-empowered Astral Shield to beat fully empowered Astral Shield.
Unfortunately, my information is incomplete and based on assumptions because the skill is very difficult to test.
Questions:
- Does empowered Astral Shield in fact no longer provide the base effect?
- Does non-empowered Astral Shield improve the defense stat (versus directly affecting DR)?
- How is a linear percentage increase of the defense stat affected by diminishing returns?
- Under what conditions is non-empowered astral shield actually better than (fully) empowered astral shield in preventing one-shotting, if any?
Post edited by x1101011x on
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Comments
The empowered effect of damage mitigation based on your max HP is in addition to the added Damage Resistance. It's why when a cleric uses empowered Astral Shield in PvP, they are usually hit for 0 damage.
Don't mistake it as temp hp. It is a flat damage mitigation PER attack while active. So I think the math works like this:
Damage Taken = Base damage * (1-DR) - (9% * HP Max)
Non-empowered AShield is NEVER better than EAShield
I did not mistake it for temp HP; I'm specifically referring to preventing one-shots.
That PvP attacks often hit for 0 damage means nothing. The icon appears when cast, which seems to indicate both buffs are present, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
I was looking for confirmation from someone who actually tested it because I don't trust what this game tells me (for good reason).
What other testing do you actually need apart from people who have actually played the class. DC has been my main for a year now. If you've read previous posts in this DC Forum, you'll notice I've discussed always having this power slotted. Am I to ask my friend to see if he saved his ACT parses while we were extensively testing mod 5 preview, or from dungeon runs we would do?
I find your response of "someone who actually tested it" to be dismissive and not at all constructive.
The fact that 0 damage is dealt DOES mean something as DR has an 80% cap. You can also look in your combat log while using Astral Shield and Empowered Astral Shield. Get hit in in PvE by trash mobs with only regular AS, then get hit by the same type/level with Empowered. Use Well of Dragons or something that has mobs that will hit for more than the 9k damage mitigation from empowered AS.
If fact is not enough to convince you of the mechanic, then there is no way to reconcile what you are looking for.
Here is the mod 5 thread which shows the original inception (Mitigation was originally based on weapon damage) and all the changes made before it went live in mod 5. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773411-Official-Feedback-Thread-Devoted-Cleric-Changes&highlight=Astral+Shield It is explicitly stated that the DR is additive.
I've been playing my DC since Module 2. Playing a DC means nothing.
Yes, "someone who actually tested it" is dismissive; speculation isn't constructive.
You are not giving facts; you are giving opinions. "Yes, I have tested it, and both buffs hold." <= That is a useful response.
You are choosing to ignore that for some incomprehensible reason. That's on you.
See below my quick testing of Astral Shield with drakes in the Well of Dragons.
1) No astral shield
2) Normal astral shield (non-empowered)
3) Empowered x3 Astral Shield
I have a DR of 19.7%. In the first instance, the Rage Drake dealt 5747 damage (from 7160), my DR = 1 - (5747/7160) = 19.7% exactly.
In the second instance, I cast a normal astral shield (non-empowered, Rank 4) I also cast a Blessing of Battle at rank 3 which gives me a 6% DR on top of the 40% DR of astral shield. They directly add to my DR. From my calculations though, I defended more than the expected 65.7% (i.e. my [DR + AS DR + BoB DR] = 19.7 + 40 + 6).
I resisted from the Rage Drake: DR = 1 - (2750/10053) = 72.6%. I'm not sure where this additional 6.9% came from (i.e. [actual DR] - [expected DR] or 72.6 - 65.7). My class features were divine fortune and holy fervor.
But, I resisted from the Assassin Drake, DR = 1 - (1443/4255) = 66.1% which is close to my expected DR with AS + BoB.
In the third instance, I cast a fully empowered AS (3 stacks). I have HP of 81,386 and am expected to absorb 9% of my HP (7,324 HP) after damage resistance is calculated. The Rage drake gave me 0 damage. I block any damage from any source up to [0.09*maxHP] as long as I'm in my x3 empowered AS after DR calculations.
To answer your questions:
1) Empowered Astral Shield does provide the Base effect
2) Astral Shield (Empowered or Non-empowered) directly improves the DR value. Lilhamlet was correct.
3) This question does not apply (see number 2) unless of course AS respects the 80%DR Cap (I did not test this)
4) The only condition non-empowered astral shield is better, IMO, is if you need to cast it quickly and/or do not have divinity pips available and need to protect your party now.
Thank you. I asked because I've always used empowered astral shield, but it didn't seem to be giving the kind of DR I'd expect, nowhere near the drastic difference 40% less damage should be (on top of 8200 shaved off).
Your answer was very detailed and beyond my expectations.
However, I have a few questions and comments:
Certainly, it seems far more probable that astral shield always provides the 40% DR, even though it doesn't "feel like it" in dungeons. I guess the mobs aren't just barely one-shotting players but doing far more damage. Makes one wonder how devotion paladins work.
Interesting that you made those comments. I too made the same observations and tried to come up with hypotheses, but nothing concrete so didn't post it. No, I only use a combination of Elven and Alliance armor (still working on my T2 set
Yes Raking Charge and Raging Claw were used, which means that the test attack wasn't the same as control; the differences in DR could perhaps be because one attack has more armor penetration than the other that I'm not factoring in?
The bracketed number for attacks seems to be the raw damage coming in before DR, whereas the unbracketed is the post DR damage from which I lose HP, i.e. a "hit". Conversely, for the Astral Shield bracketed numbers, it is the un-absorbed numbers coming through. Another way of looking at it is, the unbracketed numbers for the attack is what goes through to me when I am hit, but for the AS the unbracketed number is the amount absorbed, where the bracketed number for AS is what goes through. Again this is just from my surmising.
For the combat log, it's usually a mess of information, in order to help unclutter I just select it to show what damage I am doing or is being done to me (changed via configurations). Hope that helps.
Just a sidenote to your comment about Paladins (I only encounter Protectors during PUGs due to matchmaking), when they use their Divine Protector daily (allies redirect 100% of incoming damage to OP but this is reduced by 80%) and I use a combination of empowered AS and other debuffs, it practically means the party (and OP) takes no damage. This is a beastly combination, in fighting, say, Garakas. When my AS is on cooldown, or the OP's daily is not ready, I cast Anointed Army (AA only lets through about 5% of damage while active) whereby a normal one-shot for Garakas, which deals about 300k damage, only deals about 15k damage. Between keeping AA, AS and the OP's powers up, Garakas cannot deal us any significant damage.
The only times when I think my tank isn't doing the right job is if they don't maximise my AS to their advantage, and I just facepalm and try to heal as best I can.