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Weren't Warlocks intended to be top damage dealers?
karlorsacorn
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 14 Arc User
So, I have had my Warlocks parked since the EE release. Why? Because they are getting easily beat (drastically), by the GWF and other classes in DPS. Especially the GWF though. Why can't the Warlocks be top dogs in DPS anymore? Why is the GWF getting so much love? What the heck?
Post edited by karlorsacorn on
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Also, what else could we expect if devs change the sole mechanic this whole class was oriented about (lifesteal)?. With LS change the whole SW concept collapsed and AT BEST they try to figure out how to put us back on track. Worst case scenario is... we've been 'TRd' and we're gonna have to wait for a complete class rework like TRs had.
In any event, I recommend you not to hold your breath waiting for changes - take a look how long it's been since Mod 6 introduction and they still left the class barely playable and completely anti-fun. It's sad but it looks like we have to wait (for God knows how long) and hope for the best.
SW needs:
- Big mob pack that don't die fast
- 5-8secs to setup TT daily + curse 3 mobs for full damage
- lineup all the mobs with dreadtheft
GWF needs:
- run in, into ANY pack (big or small) and start swinging while spamming all his encounters.
Same with CW class, on paper they will do more damage just because of how the dungeons are designed, but in long fights SW is wayyyy more effective, no one comes close to his damage.
there are options to play the class, not in PVP- we simply underperform against most classes,
but in PVE looking at the boss encounter we are not that bad
ok some GWF deal insane damage, right, but GWF is not that easy to play and position in some fights
so if i meet some of these player who perform very good (lostmauthset or not) i accept it, sometimes I meet better geared who underperform badly, sometimes i meet exceptional player that deal damage i can´t get close to even with my own GWF, so well done
from my sight I really would recommend to try fury path as Soulbinder, with or without DC sigil and using dust to dust, spamming TT + Soulsparks is good damage
sure we do not have many other options and a variety like CW has,
but ist about making the best of it and get along this mod, hoping for little improvements
all bossencounter i play with medium gear i can´t cry about my damage, also survivability in PVE is good compared to other classes (in case u don´t get oneshooted) if u use borrowed time and offhand feat
warlock is far easier to play than a GWF imo, maybe it´s me that was always used to play caster classes but GWF is more like runnnig as a chicken on speed all time from one spot to the next to deal damage, step back from red sauce and try to catch up the rotation again
They are very "skilled" in that area...
Now they overbuffed(highest weapon dmg, best self-buff encounter in game, dmg stacks) that class which is basically an offtank defender class.
Noone can, not even a fabled fully geared SW can match a fully stacked SM GWF on single target, tiamat etc.
Btw you should try damnation and you can outdps them in some instance.
Valindra its only running like crazy dog, avoid aoe step back, run after her since she teleportet 1 mile away
kessel aoe zones all over the room, very funny to go in melee position, eTOS endboss in case he has to clear trash its running and running and running
as a caster class you have the advantage to deal damage nearly from every position every time
SB fury can deal heavy damage on single target but he also deals excellent damage in boss fight with lots of mobs take the first two boss encounter in eCC or eTOS, put TT tab WB DT 5xSS on one the boss or any advaturer and you deal half the damage the hole party deals, some teammates even do not understand what exactly happend and rest a while to think about it , clueless
syndrith it works sam way park behind her in phase 2 and spamm SS and TT as often as possible and you do the best service you can to your party
Soul scorch crits for up to 200k sometimes, even higher numbers happen
going Dragon HE´s I would not subscribe that generally on single target, but you are right they deal very good damage since IBS crits up to 400k looking at mediocre geared GWF and their pure strike if fully buffed deals same damage as an encounter, going unstoppable its like spamming encounter every 1/2 second,
but i think lots of the damage is also dealt by runnnig fully buffed in mob groups daring shout- daggers and spam WMS, its sometimes insane damage even without stacking destroyer feat, thats a scenario no Warlock can compete to also
last time i did tiamat i could compete to better geared player by spamming TT al time, except ... some very good equipped GWF and CW right
since i run ACT and tend to look up these guys in gateway later on, I know quite well where I stand DPS wise
all of them use broken Lostmauthset, take it away or fix it and things look different
some CW also deal incredible damage in Tiamat melting mobs like nothing, they do not need lostmauth set to do so and I can´t compete to them most time, even if I would have TT all time up i guess, can´t say how that works but I have to live with it
Vell Crowe
Vell Crowe's Soulbinder Damnation SW build
Wot a BS...Offtank? They played intimidation feat in mod 5 cuzz this was the best for dps. Not for tank. Dont talk about classes you dont play. And if a damnation SW with buggy puppet cant out dps any class, than he maybe plays without cheat.
even without cheating the damage all classes can deal in PVE is compareable, Tr, Hunter, CW SW, GWF if PVE scilled can perform,
the difference most times is caused to weaponenchant, Lostmauthset/wheel of elements, scill or wrong builds imo
I'll barge in just to facepalm. Ever played a Destroyer GWF? We don't burst, we need 10 seconds at least to build all stacks to even DO DAMAGE. Either you're a troll, an idiot, or terribly misinformed. With no mechanics a good geared GWF won't do anything, they'll fall behind the dc's in paingiver and wipe zillion of times. I think you're confusing the hack burst CW's got.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
I Really like how they designed the GWF destroyer. It was more carefully designed and well thought out and it plays out very well. A good GWF will dish out enormous DPS while a bad one will simply be terrible
I think they should take example of how they made this tree to make changes to the other trees, and other classes. The stacking aspect of the raging berserker becoming stronger with every swipe in the fury of the battle is really great
Hopefully the same sort of quality work will be in place when changes come for the SW class, and it feels unique in it's own way too.
And please, no recycling CW powers and making it purple calling it a day, thanks. :cool:
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
It's an interesting tree to play, for sure, can't tell you it's great though. The mechanics are very complex and you need to be 100% alert of what you're doing, we asked several times to either make the stacks last longer or cut them in half, as fun as it is, it makes the class unplayable for a lot of people who, as you said, do terribly because they can't figure out the mechanics.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
I think being alert is part of player skill, and i feel it's natural someone paying attention does better than someone facerolling on his keyboard (cough cough wizards cough cough) :P
It's just me though, but I like this concept of higher reward for harder to play styles. Facerolling and being top DPS is pretty dumb to me
I would really like if one of the trees for my class was a high skill cap tree and hard to play - high reward style, personally.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
only in case i did not understand destroyer tree, what needs 10 seconds to stack full power?
normally your capstone ticks for 25 seconds, so its active most of the time
so running into a mobgroup with this 50%/20% buff its takes 3 hits to stack destroyer feat, in case you use it and not bravery+weapon mastery what is more common,
so only thing you have to stack most time is weapon mastery stacks for more crits, but the damage you deal in very short times does not need 10 seconds imo, and the 10 stacks from capstone are build up more in 2 than in 10 seconds going unstoppable, I have to disagree, sry
Balance speaking, the warlock has really poor DPS and fair DPS. The DPS a warlock can deal is more or less equal to other classes, but it has lower defensive abilities.
So balance is not here, if devs want us to have lower defences than other classes we should have higher DPS to make up for it, or if they feel our DPS is fine then our defensive abilities needs to be increased to be on par with other strikers.
Simple really
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Show me your GWF, we'll talk stacks.
Just to do the math for you -
- 6 stacks of Weapon Master
- 3 stacks of Destroyer (it's a 25% chance proc on single target, so it takes around 40 seconds to get them all.)
- 10 stacks of Destroyer Purpose
- 1 stack of Weapon Master Strike
- Uptime of mark and DS stacks
- Hidden Daggers uptime (also a stack)
anything else?
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
as I wrote the capstone ticks for 25 seconds, right, so most time the buff is already active, if not it takes about 2-3 seconds going unstoppable to get these 10 stacks, so run into mob group: daring shout - dagger - spam WMF and there you have 3 stacks destroyer + 3 stacks weapon master = insane damage in short time
single target is daring shout - dagger - wmf -sure strike , destroyer in this case is not needed since only stacks hitting 3 targetes, and most ppl cant´afford plying without bravery
since most player with >4k GS have tons of crit they even are not dependent to weapon mastery at all since every hit crits even witout 5 stacks.....
following your arguments GWF would not deal any damage since mobgroups are mostly dead after 10 seconds, you are just not very honest thats all, and i play GWF know the mechanic and am aware of the great damage the class deals and
on top of it, I think they have to deal this damage as striker in melee range, I do not complain about it, only about telling people the class is hard to play to deal damage, since that just BS .... so don´t complain about beeing called hypocrit coming here, just be honets to the player and you will be treated that way, ok
Sigh. Not honest? How about someone who knows better than you? This is a GWF discussion, it's obvious you're either not playing your gwf or haven't played in a long time. Nobody's using Bravery in PVE. No one. Not a 1k GWF, not a 4k GWF, no one. Nobody expects a GWF to tank, you have support roles in your party for a reason. I'm talking from both a BiS prespective and as a person who has taken upon herself to guide and teach others, GWF destroyer is one of the most complex tree the game offers to play. (hands down to DC's, I never understood the Devinity system and it's by far to me the hardest, so they get the medal.) I consider myself a very good GWF, and trust me it's hard. Yes, I know the mechanics by heart, I can play with my eyes closed, but it took me months to get there, so much hard work and understanding, the DPS is NOT taken for granted, a good GWF earns it by learning the right mechanics and moves, aspiring to improve all the time. This is what a rewarding tree looks like. If you play like HAMSTER, the results will be similar. if you know what you're doing, the chart will be in your favor. I don't think you're aware of what you're saying at all, so just stop there.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
DC is really cheap to play, at will at will, spam divine encounter, spam empowered encounter, there are not so much hidden things to be aware of
GWF has his rotation u can read in the forum and its very easy to understand compared to other games i met, in case you have 2-2,5k GS it is by sure a question of having 10% deflect and runspeed or not since going with this setup T1 or evenT2 you go down really fast, so don´t pretend beeing the only player who has the knowledge about the class, and don´t think that every other player can play the way a BIS GWF like you or lazaroth can do, sure they have other setup
so coming here, not knowing anything about the class that is represented in this thread and spread your wisdom under the folk is not very ....wise
pretending the GWF is a book with 7 Seals to play makes my laugh, sure it is not
its a poor rotation + gear, only thing taht needs some experience is --> timing <--
+ broken lostmauthset that deals 25% or more of overall damage, there is no mystirium about the class, but in case you think so probably it takes more time in your case
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
I'm getting sick of BiS players telling how you're supposed to play SW. All they do is TT this and TT that. So TT is the only thing we can do to compete as DPSers?
all I can say as SB fury is, since fights last longer, dots can tick longer, i have more time to stack sparks, so I feel a pregnant improvement to the class
if i would buy a T negation on top and mitigate 30% damage, the balance between incoming damage and passive heal+deflect from Borrowed time feat would give me a very tanky setup, dark prayer on top and you are hard to kill in PVP
in PVE only a dodge would help against the onhits, since we do not have a mass cc we shold have much more defensive mechanisms, but against archers in T2 f.e. who ignore all your defences nothing works (except dodges)
This is how these problems start and will get the whole class nerfed. GWF is NOT overbuffed. GWF DESTROYER is overbuffed. Show me an instigator or sentinel who is out paingivering and soloing HEs.
Maybe? lol.
Highest weapon dmg, best stackable self-buffs. Best dmg in instance like Tiamat, VT by far.
GWF benefits a lot from Lostmauth set, if its tuned down things look a bit different i guess
there is allways one path that performs better than the other, if you decide to play an sentinel in mod 6 its your decision, you should have written : "show me any instigator or sentinel in mod 6, because they are hard to find beside PVP", did you see a lot last time?
Warlock has one useless tree -temptation
one that is broken in some instances like eCC, noone can say until now what causes these ammounts of damage but maybe its the instance or the mobs themself that cause these interactions? Just look at the spots where it occures, maybe its the aura form OP...
one path performs mediocre - fury
so I would say fix the other trees , thats all, but since this doesn´t happen I have to play the build that works
Lost set isnt broken. But im not in the mood to explain it 1000 times. Espacially on a crit builded gwf the lost set makes excactly wot this set has to make. Nothing more.
lol, i do not have to say it 100 times again this set deals far >25% from overall damage so its broken OP-BS, nothing else
you honestly think that cryptic intentionally build a setbonus that strong disbalancing a hole mod ?
no you don´t, lets be honest, you only fear to get nerfed your so beloved toy, thats all