test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
PLZ devs, help COMBAT hr.
dam182
Member Posts: 40
It is just laughable what happened to a complete tree... no damage, no sustain, no control, no control break... your skills hit for nothing and everyone is forced to go trapper. This is mostly due to overnerfing (intense QQ). My Idea is quite simple. Unnerf Wilds medicine (every healer heals for 50-100k, wilds medicine will mean nothing in mod 6 reality) and unnerf piercing blades (that will be the only one thing that will do any damage at all... seariously, your encounters hit for 1000 in TRs and other rangers). Combat HR simply do not have enough tools to be competitive against anything these days.
Post edited by dam182 on
0
Comments
Incidentally, what did happen?
I wasn't around at the last days of mod5 where the transition from Combat to Trappers were happening. To my knowledge there weren't any major nerfs to Combat tree, and HRs were largely Combat from the beginning of mod5 to 2/3rds through the mod -- ie. the latest 'fad' around the time mod5 preview was going on was high-power Combat builds with insane DoTs.
I recall a major patch or something happening around the latter days of mod5 when suddenly the "undodgeable broken roots with darn high DoT ticks" happening, which at this point the transition began.
So, just what exactly was nerfed so much with Combat again? I can see the changes to life steal in that it turned into a proc mechanic could have some ill-effects, but what else?
yes switch to a cookie cutter CW
the piercing nerf.
wildmedicine halved heals for pvp and halved twice for healing depression plus 1 sec cooldown for each stack.. no more max stack reachable.
wild medicine is now based on base hp and not on total hp.
So they fixed that Careful Attack/Plaguefire thing you mean?
IIRC this was a bug fix as it was never supposed to pull the 40% from pre-mitigated values
Is this something happened in mod6? Didn't they do it before mod5 arrived?
This one does seem unreasonable IMO. So its taking account the base HP before gear is applied...?
The Nerf train goes all the way back to mod 3. Pretty much everything that did any damage was nerfed between then and now. People cried because you could split shot a whole team of mannequins down in a minute or two. Except gwf sentinals. Or reflect gfs. Or trs. Or pretty much anyone that had a basic grasp of PvP. Slippery slope. Here is the result. Its why I still argue against nerfing anything about any class that is not extreme and absolutely game breaking.
But both mod3 and 4 were plenty gamebreaking. It was only overshadowed by the GWF in mod3 or the CW in mod4, so every whiney complaint was usually focused on those two, but the HR was never far behind. The new introduction of the Pathfinder-CA-DoT proc mechanic in conjunction with lifesteals, super high regen, deflect, and broken PB had them practically unkillable for most, and despite the series of nerfs happening since the Pathfinder introduction in mod3 HRs have always been considered serious contendors. In a sense the nerf-train had been constant because the initial debut was so craptastically broken.
But that's not what I'm really interested in btw. I'm more interested in just how much of the truth it is when people say mod6 Combat sucks. I'm curious as to if that's really the truth, and not just simply a case where people have moved to a seemingly better FotM.
Simply put : Players spent enough money on HRs during mode 4, we'll have to wait until PWE are not getting enough money from CW/TR to buff HR to openess again
I can see how WM could be a problem since I don't think the devs would have properly thought through on how the mechanics would be effected when the regen-lifesteal changes took place. But the melee damage was always low as the basic HR preset mostly used melee attacks for utility purposes, and it always relied on a few key powers which had (again) broken OP bugs associated with it.
I'm beginning to see a trend here where people are using the HRs pre-mod6 days as a straight-up standard without associating it with all the problems and OP accusations it received in those days as well. Mod3-Mod4-Mod5 HRs weren't exactly slouches and they certainly didn't qualify as normal. It was only when mod5 TRs and DCs arrived that everyone's attention immediately shifted to how OP those classes were, but despite throughout mod5 there weren't any major changes at all to the HRs IIRC. They still used same broken OP mechancis, except mod5 had certain class/builds that were relative even more problematic.
Well the point is the tree lack any damabe boost to the ridicolous low base damage.
Survivability which is the strong combat aspect is none. Wm isnt working, lifesteal isnt that reliable.
The path worked thanks to multiproccing more times than expected carefull attack.
Solution opted? No hr at will now apply dot enchantment. Instead of fixing the interaction they totally killed it.
I would not be surprised to see arvhery being more viable than combat in both pvp and pve.
Just for the note.. many of these changes are undocumented
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
In defense of the playerbase, balance always tries to work itself into every module, by itself. That's due to other classes L2P to deal with broken classes. Or we simple become good at countering. When you take that kind of "autobalance" into the equation, add a sudden bug fix out of the blue, you have a gamebreaking class nerf.
Words and definitions here cross boundaries, but bottomline is it's a change. And you feel that change. Sadly, I doubt as developers, they would be so eager to tune up something they "believe" was tuned down for a purpose. Expect the same amount of time going from module 3 to module 6 for the HR to (if at all) reclaim its former glory.
I might agree with you if it was still mod5 reality and before. At the time piercing blades came around it was a bit too much damag, of curse it was, People had 40k hp, tenacity worked differently. Nos Now informações mod 6 a ranger has 110k Hp. The Pre nerf piercing blades clearly worked as intended, as in its descriptio: piercing damage is damage that cannot be reduced or deflected. It had the intent of fixing a minimum damage combat hr should do. If piercing applies after mitigation, its not better than a 40% damage increase (witch is still awfully bad, since damage is as low as 4k pré mitigation on encounter). It was nerfed, due to complaints from the community.
As for the devs revisiting an over nerfed class. I think mod 6 New reality can be the Best reason for doing so. The unerf of piercing blades could give hr a significant damage boost, and a role, as dealing damage to the classes with the most mitigation. I have to be clear here, the damage would not be increased, you would just do 40% of your damage unmitigated, witch means 2000 damage hits with encounters, 500 damage with at will. That, for sure, is not game breaking.
As for wild medicine, its icd should be removed, its half efficiency in pvp should be undone. If you have 100k hp, you will restore 25000 in pvp at most, within 15 seconds. Any class would be abLe to deal with that. We already deal with clerics, paladin and the everlasting trs. This healing will help hrs so much, and would not make him imortal.
I would like all of you to run some numbers and give your opinion about it. And for the devs, much has changed, it is not possible to foresee every interaction in a brand new world.
Ill jus leave it here - posted yesterday
on bug that is reported since beta of mod 6(almost 6 month by now lol). LF fix took 4 month. but broke serpent lol
Btw
combat has also hit hard by new defense /deflect stat curves. Before you could get ~ 35% DR and 50-60% Deflect with LF by just going defensive stats and rely on LS /Regen for healing. Now this is ~ 12% /45% with LF and unreliable low healing. Add to it nerf for dots, base low damage and that LS is not 1/3 effective for AoE by design.
Small notice about ICD math behind WM back since mod 4. did this before but was silenced my crush as work as intended
assume that you have 100% deflect rate(!), ok?
so to build up 10 stacks of WM you need to take 10 hits every second(!)
and only then you will have all 10 stacks for 5%(2.5% pvp) of Max Base HP ( around 30k) / 15 to tick
~~ 0.025 * 30 000 / 15/3= 225 per one tick for 5 ticks .
And this is MAX possible scenario ever with 100% deflect rate for hit that is done for every second not missing anything! Now assume you really have ~50% deflect. No wonder that even in mod 4 you usually would see 7 stacks max. But at least at that time it was some valuable.
It is still a joke that HR has Batlehoned that give +400 regen (1 % lol) in combat after being hit as rank 4 class feature.
lol. is there a healing? my act had not noticed it
The joke skill for HR in my opinion is blade storm... its just like storm spell, the only difference is that it has 25% chance to deal AMAZING 140 damage.
LOL
Oh dear lord, just stop with the bullshi* already. Premitigated damage figures are 3~4 times higher than actual damage numbers in the least, and you clearly have no idea just what kind of broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this means on the receiving end.
The changes to lifesteal-regen and how this could suddenly impact the survivability of the HR? This one I get. Its entirely plausible. But for the love of god stop defending broken stuff which was buried and laid to rest for a reason. The devs themselves confirmed it was not WAI and therefore the discussions, and the fix.
Do we really have to repeat this bullshi* that happened such a long time ago?
IMO no hr build is currently viable. Trapper is fotm because the chain cc is really the only contribution the class can make at all. Only the most loyal hr hard core fans are still on that class and their spec is trapper
Nublings might roll one not knowing any better but the weakness of the class is pretty painfully obvious by level 60.
Utter garbage of an argument if I've ever heard one. Everyone was against PB in those days, especially concerning the fact unmitigated damage should not have been doing such large numbers of damage. Go see how much "unmitigated" damage does against combat dummies -- my DHS-oriented TR build can do at max 13k per tick DHS damage on the combat dummies. Even a normal, unstealthed, non-crit CoS shot deals something like 4~6k per pop when its not mitigated.
Basing an unmitigated, inevitable damage type that draws 40% from damage values pre-mitigation? It was us TRs that whined, that got you nerfed? You're justifying something this fekked by once again, dragging us TRs into this discussion?
WHAT THE FEK IS MATTER WITH YOU HR TYPES?
In your case, learn to stop making dumb-*** assumptions thinking everyone is like you. I support the total removal of Shadowy Opp from the Sabo tree. My entire motto concerning this matter is: "Nothing undodgeable, nothing unmitigated, nothing inevitable", including shi* like SE, SO, PB, massive auto-proc damage like the CWs have... etc etc.
The only nice feedback were those with some progressive ideas. Every single mention of "we want our old, fekked-up mechanic back because we suck so much now" is nothing but the exact same cry-me-a-river song as the one GWFs have been singing throughout entire mod5.
The lifesteal-regen issues does seem it might need a new mechanic, or someone that works better with how the thing changed, maybe so does the melee damage or utility of the HR. When there's a need, there can be a lot of possibilities, ideas to suggest to the devs, one which is reasonable to everyone.
But oooooooh no. The moment this discussion comes up, it's the Bring me back to the fekked up days when I ruled with broken-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> mechanics. Yep. I've definitely heard this song coming from the GWFs before.
Possibly. But why does the solution seem to always involve "Gimme back my broken mechanic?" :rolleyes:
Well to be honest it is a lot easier than coming up with something new that makes sense. That it was and is no more also feels more like possible than something entirely new.
The very GWF that still traumatizes people to this day, making them have this little hidden hate towards GWF's.