No Stealthing in Combat

daimyon

I'm going to continue to post about this. I don't think you should be allowed to stealth in the middle of combat. Especially if you get caught off guard. If I get the jump on you because you are distracted or pre-occupied, you should NOT be able to hit a button and disappear when not only am I looking right at you, but I'm targeting you, or channeling a spell on you. It's the most annoying part about fighting TRs, they can just disappear and run away when they come up against someone who is more skilled, or gets the jump on them.

lorespade

Its magic stealth. So your argument is invalid.

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thezer0flux

No, it's not that we don't understand the request. It's just a horrible idea. Changing the TRs stealth mechanic would completely break the class, making it pointless to even play.

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thezer0flux

oldgravyleg wrote: »

I believe you mean it would completely break the class, causing it to require the tiniest modicum of skill to play. Good players would still do well. Unless the rogue is bad the fight is over before stealth recharges anyway. The only difference is bad players wouldn't get a free pass like they do now.

No, I mean stealth is the core mechanic of the TR and changing it so it could rarely be used would completely break the class, full stop. And for no reason other than to fix a perceived problem with the tacked-on, something-to-do-when-you're-bored PvP mode, which is stupid. Changing the stealth mechanic would gimp the TR in ways that make it an unviable class for either PvP or PvE. It would require a whole redesign. Besides, the class isn't OP anyway. The problem isn't the class, it's PvP itself, specifically the people who play it thinking it's a solo deathmatch game instead of the team-based game that it is. The classes compliment each other well as they are... which is likely why Cryptic hasn't made the radical changes to TRs a few whiners seem to want.

quafflicious

oldgravyleg wrote: »

I believe you mean it would completely break the class, causing it to require the tiniest modicum of skill to play. Good players would still do well. Unless the rogue is bad the fight is over before stealth recharges anyway. The only difference is bad players wouldn't get a free pass like they do now.

Yeah, no. No amount of skill would make a rogue viable at anything if they removed the in combat stealth. This isn't WoW and will never be. Stop complaining that it isn't.

munkey81

Cryptic has done changes for over 2 years bringing TR's to where they are now.

I'm not going to go into specific changes as they are many.

What they have done in a nut-shell however, is give people exactly what they asked for. Perma-stealth used to be actual Perma-Stealth. 100% uptime on Stealth, using Dailys, encounters and at-wills and able to HAMSTER on people, or the very least contest a node all day long VS an entire team. This was obviously unfair, and even the best of TR's agreed that a change was necessary to bring back a lvl of skill to the game play of a TR.

Now, one single encounter will immediately bring the TR out of stealth. Yes, there are utility encounters(Shadow Strike, Bait n Switch) that will prolong the stealth, or refill the stealth meter. But those 2 utilities are just that..utilities. Shadow Strike does do dmg, but nothing to scream about, and Bait n Switch does 0 damage. In the Sab Tier there are feats that will allow TR's to re-enter stealth givin the prerequisites, but they are far from game breaking.

They also allow for tracking on a stealthed TR. Most new players are too caught up in the fast pace of NW PvP to even notice, but if you pay attention, you are able to see a TR if you have previously done damage to them, allowing you to track them, and use encounters or at-wills that require no target to activate, which in turn allows you to continue the fight.

They also have given specific sounds, and animations to every single encounter, at-will and daily for every single class in this game. You don't have to actually see the TR in order to avoid there encounters/at-wills/dailys, just pay attention to the sound.

I am guessing I have well over 15,000 kills by now on my TR, meaning I have a lot of time spent in PvP. Of those countless hours and hundreds of matches in PvP, I can literally count on one hand the times I have personally been killed by a TR using the one shot build. It is not because I am MR.Special and Awesome, or am some-how better then the average bear. I just pay attention to my surroundings and I know like the back of my hand the encounters/dailys/at-will sounds and animations of all the class's that are important to avoid.

I cant stress enough how important using a head set and listening to the in-game sounds are in PvP, for this very reason.

I don't like to say L2P, but just as it was on PC, the large majority of players gripes in this game are from lack of experience and understanding on what is actually happening. People are so quick to post a hate thread on the forums when they are killed in PvP, without having any idea what just happened to them.

I can tell you that the TR in this game...will never ever be "your" vision of what a Rogue should be. Either use the tools NW has given the players to combat them, or go find a different game.

challenjourgg

falkenblackhand wrote: »

I don't see this happening. The Rogues ability to Stealth is the bread and butter of that class. If they took it away... i can imagine the rage in response would be quite massive. I am not a TR. As my Avatar can show you, i have a HR... which i guess is the second most hated class in the game when it comes to PVP. Well... Trapper builds like mine anyway. Btw... a good trapper is the bane of a TR. Not saying they always win... but it's a dang good fight.... win some lose some. Besides EVERY class has something that other classes consider cheating in PVP...
-Rogues stealth one shot
-Rangers trap with roots
-Guardian Fighters are insanely hard to take down before someone else intervenes and can hold a Post for ages
-Clerics have the annoying heals and astral shield
-Scourge Warlocks basically have a companion with there Soul Puppet
-Control Wizards can choke you out with the power of the "force"
-Great Weapon Fighters Run like lightning and can jump to places we can't, also can one shot you and stun for ever....

So why would they take away the TR's stealthing ability? Quick answer... They won't.

GWF sprint isn't really that bad, we still take damage, what's really annoying about us is our unstoppable (40% resistance at max and immunity to CC). Or if your a sentinel spec 80% xD

daimyon

I think people are completely missing the point of what I was asking. I think if a TR underestimates, or misjudges their opponent, they should be penalized for it like every other class by having to fight it out, or suffer a death for your bad decisions. Stealthing when you're actively engaged in combat is pretty much a combat reset mechanic. A rogue can just disappear, run off to grab a potion, or use one of their own, and then re-engage when the situation favors them.
I haven't even touched on the other issues that irritate me, like how going into stealth negates any ability used on them. If I hit a rogue with my grasping roots and he decides to go stealth, that shouldn't break roots, or allow him to go into stealth. I know exactly where he is. Even if he does stealth, I should still be able to see my roots holding him in place at LEAST. And lets not even get into their roll dodge being able to negate abilities after they land.
All I'm saying is, logically, if you are fighting someone, they are focused on you, and you shouldn't be able to just disappear in front of their eyes without some special ability. Maybe change Smoke Bomb to allow them to disappear instead of that annoying AoE daze that lasts 2 seconds even after you leave the area.

obliviousluster

daimyon wrote: »

I think people are completely missing the point of what I was asking. I think if a TR underestimates, or misjudges their opponent, they should be penalized for it like every other class by having to fight it out, or suffer a death for your bad decisions. Stealthing when you're actively engaged in combat is pretty much a combat reset mechanic. A rogue can just disappear, run off to grab a potion, or use one of their own, and then re-engage when the situation favors them.
I haven't even touched on the other issues that irritate me, like how going into stealth negates any ability used on them. If I hit a rogue with my grasping roots and he decides to go stealth, that shouldn't break roots, or allow him to go into stealth. I know exactly where he is. Even if he does stealth, I should still be able to see my roots holding him in place at LEAST. And lets not even get into their roll dodge being able to negate abilities after they land.
All I'm saying is, logically, if you are fighting someone, they are focused on you, and you shouldn't be able to just disappear in front of their eyes without some special ability. Maybe change Smoke Bomb to allow them to disappear instead of that annoying AoE daze that lasts 2 seconds even after you leave the area.

That's the WHOLE idea behind Trickster Rogue though. They are a very, easily defeated class regardless of how you build them. Their damage comes from stealth attacks like dazing strike and lashing blade, and if they become cornered in PvE situations, then they're S-O-L! You really have to stack up the defense/deflect with them. So imagine running into trouble and not having the rest of the party there to save you. Invisibility is really the only saving grace of the class. Most of their powers are just too weak without it for average players. They have low health and defense- they are the "thief" class after all- very common easily killed classes in MMOs.

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