I wish TR have something great to offer in a party on dungeon raids

k9madrush

CW and SW can control and pump tons of damage single and aoe, GWF can tank and deal high damage, GF and OP can tank, support and take aggro, DC and HR provides buff, damage and heal while TR can.... use.... wicked reminder and smoke bomb?

rebellionstuff

hrs can heal and buff reliably? how?

alisi1

rebellionstuff wrote: »

hrs can heal and buff reliably? how?

The teamwork ability maybe? I don't use that path, but from the description it should do that.

thefabricant

Hr can control.

Unknown

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jaotut

I dunno about you, but my TR is extremely useful in dungeons, and oftening carrying weaker parties thru.

-I'm dealing a ton of damage
-I can keep most mobs dazed again and again and again
-I have extremely good survivability, always the last person to die, pick everyone up if they're down and still manage to put a smokebomb down to give them some space once they get up

I'll often be the person doing the pulling, which makes it so much easier for the party especially if there's no tank. I don't think my TR has ever felt more useful in PvE as mod 6, my HR is slightly better geared but TR is just far more superior in PvE right now.

It feels like you're not playing your TR to full potential if you're complaining about it in any part of this game, whether it's PvE or PvP.

norcaine1990

'SW can control' oh boy, I haven't laughed so much in a while now. Also their 'tons of damage' aspect is lacking, unless you're talking about bugged puppet or bugged MC set. It almost feels like you're playing completely different game than everyone else.

aulduron

GWFs can't tank and SWs can't control. TRs do more DPS than anyone and have one of the best control powers in the game. You're either trolling or you're very new to the game.

quspiv

jaotut wrote: »

I dunno about you, but my TR is extremely useful in dungeons, and oftening carrying weaker parties thru.

-I'm dealing a ton of damage
-I can keep most mobs dazed again and again and again
-I have extremely good survivability, always the last person to die, pick everyone up if they're down and still manage to put a smokebomb down to give them some space once they get up

I'll often be the person doing the pulling, which makes it so much easier for the party especially if there's no tank. I don't think my TR has ever felt more useful in PvE as mod 6, my HR is slightly better geared but TR is just far more superior in PvE right now.

It feels like you're not playing your TR to full potential if you're complaining about it in any part of this game, whether it's PvE or PvP.

I think you're just playing with bad players. CW can pretty much solo most of the trash in dungeons and from a lot safer position. Anybody who play this game on top lvl knows that CW's are the best when it comes to benefit and risk ratio. Rest of the dps classes can pretty much go hide themself, maybe except GWF which can do great dps with full stacks.

adisonmak

TR kickass yo. their dps maybe mehh in some occasion but they're also safest and most qualified person to ress fallen members in many situation; stealth + ress ftw... or hang on to certain boss in instance (MOTH or DL's skirmish for example) so that it won't get reset while all member that is downed regroup and charge back in... etc. etc.

unless standing on nasty circles, or blindly stabbing around, they're always the last person to die on battlefield and the easiest class to simply just poof away to escape from being targeted by mobs.

Unknown

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leeksie

Hey folks,

I wasn't sure if the OP was genuinely asking for feedback and suggestions, or if this was a rant. I'm choosing to go with the former.

**Sorry for the Wall of Text but hopefully there is some good info in here for further discussion**

TLDR version - TR actually have a number of debuff/CC effects if you want to play a more supportive/team focussed role.


Whilst TR are primarily single target damage dealers, we actually do have a number of tools that can help a party out in other ways. Many of these are subtle, most of the effects are small, but they can add up to just make a run that little bit smoother for all concerned.

Unfortunately, most of the skills that we would slot to provide more of a 'support' role are not the traditional damage dealers, so it becomes a choice on what you want your contribution to be.

At-Wills:

• Sly Flourish - adds a 5% extra damage taken debuff on the last hit
• Disheartening Strike (WK only) - reduces the damage the target does to you (and others if you Feat it)

Encounters:

• Dazing Strike - daze/stun effect and also interrupts most attacks (great for things like Greenwing Archers). Much faster since the rework and has AoE cone stun from Stealth
• Blitz - Slow effect when used from Stealth
• Deft Strike - adds a slow effect
• Bait and Switch - provides a decoy to draw aggro and give your guys a chance to land their big Alpha Strikes (if they let you engage first)
• Smoke Bomb - Daze AoE and adds Slow effect from Stealth. Also great to provide cover whilst ressing folk.
• Shadow Strike - Daze effect from Stealth
• Wicked Reminder - adds a stacking Damage Reduction debuff that applies to all damage sources. Something like 21% at 3 stacks and it's easy to get and keep 3 stacks going now.
• Vengeance's Pursuit (WK only) - add a damage debuff whilst 'marked' and a small stun when you activate the follow-up.

Dailies:

• Courage Breaker - debuffs the attackers damage considerably
• Hateful Knives (WK only) - prones the target and gives everyone CA for a few seconds

Things like Slows are often underappreciated, but there are many powers across the classes that are more effective when used on a 'controlled' target... this helps them out. Plus in Mod 6 with mobs being tougher you can't just burst everything down. Control allows you to take them out without getting hit yourself as much. In the new world of 1-shots for everyone this is important until we can all overgear the content again.

The real trick is often the timing of your powers... not just spamming Q, E, R. For example, saving your Dazing Strike or Smoke for when the Greenwing starts up their Aimed Shot so that you can interrupt it (and it then needs to cooldown before they can use it again) rather than using it as your opening attack. When they go to use it again, you have the other power ready to go and interrupt them again. If they are still alive by the time they try a third time, your first power is off cooldown. You have basically locked down the Threat of that pack, which allows your party to clear the rest easily, and if you used Dazing from Stealth, that plus your Smoke have probably cleared a bunch of the trash anyway!

Also, taking out the ranged mobs and the minions is often more useful to the party than just landing your Alpha Strike on the Elite. In Mod 6 those little guys are often capable of hurting you a lot more than the one big slow chap. If they focus fire, even GF/OP/GWFs can go down fast so flank the pack and take those guys out fast.


As a practical example, I run a WK Exec TR as my Main with the following in Delves (different for Dailies and I focus more on Burst for that):
At-Wills: Duellist's Flurry and Disheartening Strike
Encounters: Dazing Strike, Smoke Bomb, Wicked Reminder
Dailies: Bloodbath/Whirlwind of Blades and Courage Breaker/Hateful Knives depending if the team want buffs or debuffs
Passives: Oppressive Darkness and Advantageous Position

I find this gives me a good mix of Burst DPS, Sustained DPS, AoE DPS, Interrupts, Stuns, Debuffs, Buffs and most importantly the Flexibility to switch roles on the fly and fit in with pretty much any Party makeup.

There are better builds for specific purposes (for debuff, for CC, for stuns) but this is my 'jack of all trades' build that has served me well in Guild runs and PuGs alike.

Certain paths provide some additional bonuses... if you really want to go CC then Scoundrel gives access to even more Daze/Stuns for example. There are other more active forum users who will be able to help you out there... I don't pretend to be an expert but I'm not a hack either and took the time to understand the synergies within each class and between members of a party. Masashi (my TR) usually gets Paingiver (if you care about that) but I also feel like I have contributed to the party as a whole rather than being 'just the DPS'.

In the end, its the Party that beats the Dungeon. As long as we get the win and have fun... that's what I am here for

jaotut

quspiv wrote: »

I think you're just playing with bad players. CW can pretty much solo most of the trash in dungeons and from a lot safer position. Anybody who play this game on top lvl knows that CW's are the best when it comes to benefit and risk ratio. Rest of the dps classes can pretty much go hide themself, maybe except GWF which can do great dps with full stacks.

I've played with both good players and bad players. I'm fine with either because I feel that my TR can carry a weaker party thru dungeons as I can stay alive for so long and able to daze the mobs non stop.

I just did some T2 run with some geared party, and I'm always doing more damage than CWs with equal or better gear than me. TR can solo most of the trash just as good and die way way way less. There is no safe position if you have the aggro of a bunch of mobs targetting you, but for TR they can drop that aggro just like that.

Maybe you just haven't played with any good TRs.

blag001

well, you can disarm traps, lol...

I'm kidding. As jaotut said:

-I'm dealing a ton of damage
-I can keep most mobs dazed again and again and again
-I have extremely good survivability, always the last person to die, pick everyone up if they're down and still manage to put a smokebomb down to give them some space once they get up

That's exactly what I do when with my guild or a randon ppl dungeon run. TRs can't do much different from that, we run around, debuff, crit hit, smoke an area and raise players, stun/Wicked Reminder and stun/Wicked Reminder again helping a GWF ripping down an insane-mob...

leeksie had some excelent points too, like control your atacks instead of QER like crazy, for example; after Dazing Strike a mob hit it a little before drop a smoke bomb... so hit it more and daze strike again... rinse and repeat... if you get surrounded dodge away, wait the oportunity to attack again. Sure you will be helping on the run.

If it helps, look around the forum or the Internet for build tips, there are 3 paths and they have dfferent play styles and damage return.

vasdamas

SW can actually perma control one target under some circumstances and with a certain build xD The rest is total BS though.

k3ll0

TRs also contribute their inimitable sense of style and-
...huh?
What do you mean, "not everyone has a raging hard-on for black leather"?

query523

quspiv wrote: »

I think you're just playing with bad players. CW can pretty much solo most of the trash in dungeons and from a lot safer position. Anybody who play this game on top lvl knows that CW's are the best when it comes to benefit and risk ratio. Rest of the dps classes can pretty much go hide themself, maybe except GWF which can do great dps with full stacks.

Cool story bro. Anyways was doing a quick ToS this morning and our CW DCed at the start. No worries we pre-cleared to final boss with 4 while he was working out his connection issues, With my HR doing AOE/ Control.

For the OP. TRs have good single target DPS. True GWFs are ruling the roost in that department at the moment. But GWFs can't really do anything else. They have no utility ability at all. Smoke bomb is pretty awesome. The stealth mechanic is pretty awesome. So TR is more adaptable. Adapt.

smulch

TRs have smokebomb, which is insanely useful.

equ4lizer

k9madrush wrote: »

CW and SW can control and pump tons of damage single and aoe, GWF can tank and deal high damage, GF and OP can tank, support and take aggro, DC and HR provides buff, damage and heal while TR can.... use.... wicked reminder and smoke bomb?

unfortunately, not all oathbound paladins tank I actually heal and melt stuff.

pando83

k9madrush wrote: »

CW and SW can control and pump tons of damage single and aoe,
TR can deal very high damage too in single target when geared
GWF can tank and deal high damage
No. GWF can't tank, that's a thing of the past. They are pure DPS and need protection from DCs and tanks
GF and OP can tank, support and take aggro
And deal no damage or little damage. You know, DPS class deal DPS (TR), tank classes...tank and grab aggro. Each class got its role
DC and HR provides buff, damage and heal
And deal far less damage than a TR. HR buff is fox shift for dodge and some CC with roots. DC deals no damage it heals and protects. Which is his role. You want to DPS heal and protect on TR?
while TR can.... use.... wicked reminder and smoke bomb?
You provide high DPS as a TR, and some CC like other DPS classes.

I don't get what you want. Tanks grab aggro and protect, DC heal and protect, CWs/HR CC and some DPS, GWF/TR/SW DPS and some CC.

You are a DPS class, your duty is to DPS. Can drop a smoke bomb and it's a long daze if party keeps the mobs in place, preventing them from attacking for a long time.
GWF can DPS main and either CC some or debuff some.

You want to DPS and heal party, tank, CC all together? Lol.

zacazu

"Strikers specialize in dealing high amounts of damage to a single target at a time. They have the most concentrated offense of any character in the game. Strikers rely on superior mobility, trickery, or magic to move around tough foes and single out the enemy they want to attack.

A striker primarily eliminates single threats by closing with a target quickly and safely, then rapidly dealing damage to it. "
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Leader#Leader
"Strikers specialize in mobility and damage output. These combatants focus on disposing threats as quickly as possible by doing as much damage as they can, as quickly as they can, without enemies retaliating."
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Class

in the "classical" (i guess) and nwo definition, be a striker seens was also have the ability to cause damage without major retaliation. in that tr is superior than sw and gwf, so justify have a inferior damage. but some classes, you know...

pando83

A TR dropping smoke bomb at the start of a fight and clearing trash adds/ ranged trash at the speed of light is indeed a very welcome addition to any group in T2 dungeons. I haven't seen TRs in such good shape in PvE since what, module 1when they were the class needed for fast boss kill.

For PvE they are in the right spot.

query523

Getting my daily cache yesterday did ToS with a TR. I almost always run with 2 AOE/controls (trapper or CW) for spawn management on that last fight. It was weird going in with only one and I had to change rotations to make it work (and timing we stepped on each other at first) but it worked out fine once we gat a pattern down.