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Time to fix or rework annoying PRISM

quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
edited May 2015 in The Citadel
As it is this ability is worse than cancer whenever some clown uses his daily with more than 8 people around. Change it in to something which doesnt cause lags yet powerful and unique. For example: After Paladin uses daily he gets 1/2/3/4/5s CC immunity and restores all missing HP over next 10/8/6/4/2s. (only works on self).
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Comments

  • alkemist80alkemist80 Member Posts: 957 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Even 2 justice paladins with prism in a 5 man instance will bring it to a crawl. It's not just a cancer in the open world, it's just even worse with a bunch of people around.

    I love prism but sheesh, didn't they realize this would be a problem already with the astral seal + feat + burning guidance fiasco? This is just version 2.0 of that.

    Not too fond of the suggestion, as it makes a great healing path for the devotion OP without sacrificing solo sanity. They just need to fix the healing loop and possibly which sources of healing triggers prism.
    Banshee (Devotion Justice Oathbound Paladin) - Crueladevil (Soulbinder Damnation Scourge Warlock) - Sindania Balefire (Master Infiltrator Trickster Rogue)

    werewolf.jpg
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Tbh, Prism doesn't belong in Justice tree. It's a tree based on fast recharge and damage dealing so how does sharing heals fit in there? It should belong in Bulwark or Light tree or should be changed to something more appropriate for damage dealing.

    However, I don't like OP's suggestions either as they're too overpowered.
  • clericalistclericalist Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Ignoring the lag issue, but I think they need to rework prism because its too overpowered. And when I say overpowered, I mean it lets one finish boss battles like TOS where no other party configuration (other than the uber BIS) will usually do it.

    I sometimes wonder if they designed this cheap power to deal with their cheap one shot killers to make this game "challenging".
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I am curious about several aspects in this thread. Considering I've been in several instances with multiple prism going, including a kessel run just now with two paladins, and I don't experience this legendary lag people are claiming, I have to wonder; what type of PC are you using? If people are claiming it's prism causing the lag, and only prism, yet I am running with everything on max and not experiencing this lag, where is the actual problem at.

    The OS?
    The graphics card?
    The graphics drivers?
    The RAM?
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I am curious about several aspects in this thread. Considering I've been in several instances with multiple prism going, including a kessel run just now with two paladins, and I don't experience this legendary lag people are claiming, I have to wonder; what type of PC are you using? If people are claiming it's prism causing the lag, and only prism, yet I am running with everything on max and not experiencing this lag, where is the actual problem at.

    The OS?
    The graphics card?
    The graphics drivers?
    The RAM?

    Dont think so. If players can run multiple dragon runs or Tiamath without isues and then get frezzes only when PRISM appear it's obvious that it needs to be looked at. Unless you imply that 90%+ population have 6 years old PC and outdated drivers.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    quspiv wrote: »
    Dont think so. If players can run multiple dragon runs or Tiamath without isues and then get frezzes only when PRISM appear it's obvious that it needs to be looked at. Unless you imply that 90%+ population have 6 years old PC and outdated drivers.

    Considering I've been running several dungeons several dragon runs and so forth for hours at a time, and I don't experience this legendary prism lag, then yes, it's quite possible. Also, 90% is a bit of a stretch there. And actually, yes, it can be that simple. Just owning a PC doesn't make people good with them, even if they did build them themselves, and quite a number of people don't bother to keep up to date, refuse to keep up to date, and so on and so forth. It's not as isolated as you would make it believe. So, yea, more pertinent information is needed.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Another thing I took note of last night, when I was reading conversations in game to, seems a lot of people also play the game on stream instead of fully downloading it as well. That can cause problems to.
  • alkemist80alkemist80 Member Posts: 957 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I play both on my PC and laptop. I can tell that my PC process it much better than my laptop. The slowdown isn't nearly as bad, however it's still there. Such a thing shouldn't happen in a game period. Combine it with 40 people and it becomes sever crushing bad. As to what we need to process client side is beyond me. Technically there isn't a graphic besides being spammed with prism, but who knows, bad coding could be trying to draw something that doesn't actually show up.

    In a 5 man group, if I were to use my daily and trigger prism, then someone else uses their daily and triggers prism, I get a slow down, everyone else complains about "lag", then it's prism, period. I think the issue here is how much healing is going out. How much healing is OP A getting along with OP B. Essentially how much healing is going back and forth between those 2 OP's, this could be a cause of how bad the "lag" gets.

    Either way it's broken and needs fixing.
    Banshee (Devotion Justice Oathbound Paladin) - Crueladevil (Soulbinder Damnation Scourge Warlock) - Sindania Balefire (Master Infiltrator Trickster Rogue)

    werewolf.jpg
  • rebellionstuffrebellionstuff Member Posts: 237 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    what does prism do per say? i keep hearing about it but i dont have a pally so what does it do?
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    what does prism do per say? i keep hearing about it but i dont have a pally so what does it do?

    After using a daily prism feat activates and for 20s allies in 30' radius share the heals the Paladin receives.
  • rebellionstuffrebellionstuff Member Posts: 237 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    After using a daily prism feat activates and for 20s allies in 30' radius share the heals the Paladin receives.
    wow thats amazing and i like it. . its unique. please fix it.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Why is that justice feat 10 times more useful/powerful than the Light capstone...?
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    wow thats amazing and i like it. . its unique. please fix it.

    I'd rather the dps feat tree improved damage and gave utility for dps instead of shared heals (?). Such as the tier 5 feat making aura of solitude work even with allies around or something similar. Close to GWF destroyer's tier 5 feat improving the feature Destroyer.
  • mysticmarksmysticmarks Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You lack of rendering force is the issue. Turn off number tickers. they are a huge influx of render data. Besides, once you gear, why do you need to see the numbers anymore? if you need to see those crits, then leave them on and turn the rest off. huge difference.
    Sometimes you're your own best teacher. ~Me
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    I'd rather the dps feat tree improved damage and gave utility for dps instead of shared heals (?). Such as the tier 5 feat making aura of solitude work even with allies around or something similar. Close to GWF destroyer's tier 5 feat improving the feature Destroyer.

    Justice is not a dps tree...
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Justice is not a dps tree...

    Riight, because capstone giving +35% damage is not a clear indication. How silly of me. /sarcazm
  • k3ll0k3ll0 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Justice is not a dps tree...

    It's the closest equivalent on the Pally.
  • alkemist80alkemist80 Member Posts: 957 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You lack of rendering force is the issue. Turn off number tickers. they are a huge influx of render data. Besides, once you gear, why do you need to see the numbers anymore? if you need to see those crits, then leave them on and turn the rest off. huge difference.

    That is a possibility however prism does not display any numbers. All it does is spam seizure inducing word prism. That is not saying there is poor coding involved and wants to render numbers but it doesn't show. Otherwise I normally don't have any problems, even with number tickers when I used to run Tiamat.
    Banshee (Devotion Justice Oathbound Paladin) - Crueladevil (Soulbinder Damnation Scourge Warlock) - Sindania Balefire (Master Infiltrator Trickster Rogue)

    werewolf.jpg
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    alkemist80 wrote: »
    That is a possibility however prism does not display any numbers. All it does is spam seizure inducing word prism. That is not saying there is poor coding involved and wants to render numbers but it doesn't show. Otherwise I normally don't have any problems, even with number tickers when I used to run Tiamat.

    You can turn off the prism spam to. People say that floating combat text in Cryptic's engine tends to cause lag in massive quantities (ie large numbers of people). Again not something I've ever experienced, though supposedly STO has fixed this.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    Riight, because capstone giving +35% damage is not a clear indication. How silly of me. /sarcazm

    Considering it doesn't work right now, the only thing the capstone is useful for is getting pips of divine power back faster when using encounter powers. The 35% damage boost won't be all that noticeable in the long run, though the recharge is what the real deal is after. So no, it's not a DPS tree, as most of the feats in the tree are more group utility than anything, like most of our feats are from all trees.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Considering it doesn't work right now, the only thing the capstone is useful for is getting pips of divine power back faster when using encounter powers. The 35% damage boost won't be all that noticeable in the long run, though the recharge is what the real deal is after. So no, it's not a DPS tree, as most of the feats in the tree are more group utility than anything, like most of our feats are from all trees.

    Huh? It works since the last patch. What rock are you living under?:-P

    And it's a dual spec tree utility and damage. You certainly won't deny that Purifying Fire feat is not utility, will you? And the utility greatly benefits damage dealing too.
  • equ4lizerequ4lizer Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    Huh? It works since the last patch. What rock are you living under?:-P

    And it's a dual spec tree utility and damage. You certainly won't deny that Purifying Fire feat is not utility, will you? And the utility greatly benefits damage dealing too.

    I have to agree with zvieris, they just need to fix the lag part only and leave the rest as it is.
    IGN: Granzon
    军医骑士 超过三千水平 突破极限释放开
    Daily: Granworm Sword
    Enounter: Vow of Enmity | Worm Smasher | 縮退砲
    Class Feature: Kabbalah System
    Aura: Warp Field

    IGN: Faluzure 19k Tenebrous Soulbinder Scourge Warlock
    (The Corrupted) (Retired)
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    Huh? It works since the last patch. What rock are you living under?:-P

    And it's a dual spec tree utility and damage. You certainly won't deny that Purifying Fire feat is not utility, will you? And the utility greatly benefits damage dealing too.

    Strange because I use my taunt regularly and I see no noticeable difference in my damage. As far as purifying fire... a power that makes my at will cause a Dot damage; if you are any kind of paladin you are already using aura of courage, if you are after DPS, which makes purifying fire kind of worthless, so calling it a DPS power, since its design goes against the majority of feats that would be picked in that tree, well, stupid. maybe if it was a BulWark power would it have made more sense.
  • equ4lizerequ4lizer Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Strange because I use my taunt regularly and I see no noticeable difference in my damage. As far as purifying fire... a power that makes my at will cause a Dot damage; if you are any kind of paladin you are already using aura of courage, if you are after DPS, which makes purifying fire kind of worthless, so calling it a DPS power, since its design goes against the majority of feats that would be picked in that tree, well, stupid. maybe if it was a BulWark power would it have made more sense.

    It's slightly more powerful than everyone's imagination,
    I'll leave you guys think about it. No more arguments from me.
    Maybe with luck I can show you how it works in pvp or pve or whatever that takes damage.

    And if it's worthless to anyone, then maybe they should buff it up and I will welcome that change.
    IGN: Granzon
    军医骑士 超过三千水平 突破极限释放开
    Daily: Granworm Sword
    Enounter: Vow of Enmity | Worm Smasher | 縮退砲
    Class Feature: Kabbalah System
    Aura: Warp Field

    IGN: Faluzure 19k Tenebrous Soulbinder Scourge Warlock
    (The Corrupted) (Retired)
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Strange because I use my taunt regularly and I see no noticeable difference in my damage. As far as purifying fire... a power that makes my at will cause a Dot damage; if you are any kind of paladin you are already using aura of courage, if you are after DPS, which makes purifying fire kind of worthless, so calling it a DPS power, since its design goes against the majority of feats that would be picked in that tree, well, stupid. maybe if it was a BulWark power would it have made more sense.

    It does not cause DoT damage. Each at-will hit simply does additional weapon damage. Which sums up to a 310% weapon damage between 5 hits. The problem is that it stops proccing after the 5th hit and needs an encounter to hit the target it was applied to to reset. Which might be a bug on its own. Nevertheless, it procs with Radiant Strike which is an aoe at-will that has no target limit. Coupled with Templar's Wrath you can take care of trash real quick.

    And no, it does not make sense if it was in Bulwark tree which doesn't have any feats that would deal bonus damage. Prism is the one feat that doesn't make sense in Justice tree as it's a heal sharing feat. Bulwark tree which is pure tank spec, which is supposed to tank the most damage and protect the group is where Prism should be.
  • equ4lizerequ4lizer Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    It does not cause DoT damage. Each at-will hit simply does additional weapon damage. Which sums up to a 310% weapon damage between 5 hits. The problem is that it stops proccing after the 5th hit and needs an encounter to hit the target it was applied to to reset. Which might be a bug on its own. Nevertheless, it procs with Radiant Strike which is an aoe at-will that has no target limit. Coupled with Templar's Wrath you can take care of trash real quick.

    And no, it does not make sense if it was in Bulwark tree which doesn't have any feats that would deal bonus damage. Prism is the one feat that doesn't make sense in Justice tree as it's a heal sharing feat. Bulwark tree which is pure tank spec, which is supposed to tank the most damage and protect the group is where Prism should be.

    I would prefer if they only fix the lag or bugs and just leave the feats and trees alone. Else that would wreck people's build, I dont think they give out respecs a lot.

    And prism does makes a lot of sense in justice tree because it simply more than a healing sharing feat. Majority has yet to grasp its true power.
    IGN: Granzon
    军医骑士 超过三千水平 突破极限释放开
    Daily: Granworm Sword
    Enounter: Vow of Enmity | Worm Smasher | 縮退砲
    Class Feature: Kabbalah System
    Aura: Warp Field

    IGN: Faluzure 19k Tenebrous Soulbinder Scourge Warlock
    (The Corrupted) (Retired)
  • alkemist80alkemist80 Member Posts: 957 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You can turn off the prism spam to. People say that floating combat text in Cryptic's engine tends to cause lag in massive quantities (ie large numbers of people). Again not something I've ever experienced, though supposedly STO has fixed this.

    I'll look at the settings. Didn't realize the prism spam could be disabled. I wish the game had a better way to notify the player of a power activation besides the spam or tiny icons.



    I can see prism fitting into the justice tree. I would consider it more of a utility feat. Justice is good for buffing the team, hence when the OP gets healed from, for example another source, say a DC, they would just share that buff (heal). The thing is that both protection and devotion work well as justice which makes it extra good, whether it was their intentional design or not. I don't want to see any nerfs, just a fix. I would just smack my head against the wall if I had no ability to do dailies as an OP. Justice allows me to play solo AND with a group. One of the reasons why I don't want to play a healing DC due to the lack of a dual spec to handle solo game play.
    Banshee (Devotion Justice Oathbound Paladin) - Crueladevil (Soulbinder Damnation Scourge Warlock) - Sindania Balefire (Master Infiltrator Trickster Rogue)

    werewolf.jpg
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    zvieris wrote: »
    It does not cause DoT damage. Each at-will hit simply does additional weapon damage. Which sums up to a 310% weapon damage between 5 hits. The problem is that it stops proccing after the 5th hit and needs an encounter to hit the target it was applied to to reset. Which might be a bug on its own. Nevertheless, it procs with Radiant Strike which is an aoe at-will that has no target limit. Coupled with Templar's Wrath you can take care of trash real quick.

    And no, it does not make sense if it was in Bulwark tree which doesn't have any feats that would deal bonus damage. Prism is the one feat that doesn't make sense in Justice tree as it's a heal sharing feat. Bulwark tree which is pure tank spec, which is supposed to tank the most damage and protect the group is where Prism should be.

    Funny, the description calls it a dot that gets disabled as soon as you use an encounter power, and since a few feats in the tree are based around recovery of encounter, that seems counter productive.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    alkemist80 wrote: »
    I'll look at the settings. Didn't realize the prism spam could be disabled. I wish the game had a better way to notify the player of a power activation besides the spam or tiny icons.

    In Options>Interface>HUD there is an option called show created-entity floaters. You can disable that and that should remove any of the Prism word spam you typically see. You can disable most floaters, as I said floating combat text typically causes lag in the Cryptic engine, except supposedly STO. They apparently solved it there.
  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Member Posts: 601 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I ran across something interesting. I think the problem with horrendous lag is an interaction error with divine protector and hallowed ground. I was the only paladin about in IWD and had divine protector up, the moment a cleric dropped hallowed ground though lag kicked into overdrive and the server started having a conniption fit. So, I am wondering if that might be the actual cause.

    Wouldn't shock me either since it seems the two likely to work best together classes seem to do nothing right now but cause bugs to one another (like temp HP wiping).
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