I have no problem with exploits...

methecsgod

...as long as they occur in pve. Monsters don't care how you kill them, and you're not competing against anyone. And thus arises Neverwinter's biggest problem: pve and pvp are not separated.

icyphish

It effects economy and I am sure Cryptic would like to say/do something about this

ambisinisterr

As icyphish implied, economy and gameplay balance are very important to MMO's.

If exploits bring a lot of resources/items into the game it effects the economy and inflates prices of some items and deflates the prices of others which has serious negative effects to the game and its players. The biggest issue is that this is not a single player game. People do effect each other even if you as an individual want to pretend it is a single player game.

When items and resources in general become inflated and deflated due to exploitive behavior it very much does make the game 'exploit or you won't succeed' unless exploitive behavior is stopped. Economies are driven by people trading things they don't want or need for things that they do want or need. Exploits can and do upset that balance.

As such: exploits are never something to not care about. It doesn't matter where they are used.

phoenix1021

It's not just the economy, it's also about an attitude in group content. Cheat or get kicked. Have the gear that you get through cheating or get kicked. What about people that don't wanna cheat? Are we the minority then? There's already a "legit" chat channel for people that don't wanna cheat... That doesn't seem good to me.

ambisinisterr

In my experience the answer to your second question is no. The vocal minority want to cheat.

The problem is they are vocal and frankly self-centered. The reason the Legit Channel exists is because there were numerous exploits early on that took a long time to get fixed and it would drive players such as myself batty.

The thing is there was always one jerk who would abuse these release exploits and people who abuse exploits, unlike those who don't, have no attachment to actually playing the game. People who want to play the game rather than queue all night will bend to exploiter's will if it means they can at least play the game rather than wait in a queue.

Alternatively exploiters are the first people to not care about playing the game. Most will leave group after group if they don't get their way and eventually just stop playing altogether for a while rather than agree to play legitimately.

Especially early on it put people in a tight spot because groups would not get repopulated. Thus legit groups were formed not necessarily because the majority of people exploited but rather because the majority of people did not want to be pressured into doing exploits by the vocal minority.

diogene0

Players who exploit never learn to play the game properly and then complain about how hard the game is when it's fixed. That's why several tiers of content and fixing exploit helps the game in the long term: players have to get better to obtain what they want, which means they'll have more fun playing the game, as long as they can bear a few weeks of frustration (as in "not getting loot", nor bursting into tears, hopefully) when learning the fights in a new tier of content.

rollingonit

diogene0 wrote: »

Players who exploit never learn to play the game properly and then complain about how hard the game is when it's fixed. That's why several tiers of content and fixing exploit helps the game in the long term: players have to get better to obtain what they want, which means they'll have more fun playing the game, as long as they can bear a few weeks of frustration (as in "not getting loot", nor bursting into tears, hopefully) when learning the fights in a new tier of content.

I dont agree with the first part. Alot of times the exploiters know how to play the game properly and even understand the game mechanics better than your average player. Also those players tend to be hush hush so no one knows what they are doing. Though it eventually leaks some way or another.

But exploits are bad. They hurt the general population by making companies do over the top changes. Or by just messing up the economy.

bioshrike

In a perfect world, cheaters would never prosper, and those who espouse fair play and abide by the rules would come out on top. As that is not the case, all we can do is to try and mitigate the negative impact that cheats and exploits have on the game, and to encourage both new and existing players to play in a way that is as close to exploit-free as possible.

alisi1

I think exploiting sucks, but I dont blame those that do it when the content isn't doable without it. Greed caused this mess and the blame is Cryptics.

blackxxwolf3

ambisinisterr wrote: »

As icyphish implied, economy and gameplay balance are very important to MMO's.

If exploits bring a lot of resources/items into the game it effects the economy and inflates prices of some items and deflates the prices of others which has serious negative effects to the game and its players. The biggest issue is that this is not a single player game. People do effect each other even if you as an individual want to pretend it is a single player game.

When items and resources in general become inflated and deflated due to exploitive behavior it very much does make the game 'exploit or you won't succeed' unless exploitive behavior is stopped. Economies are driven by people trading things they don't want or need for things that they do want or need. Exploits can and do upset that balance.

As such: exploits are never something to not care about. It doesn't matter where they are used.

the problem is doing a exploit in ecc or tos ot gwd will NOT affect the economy whatsoever.

ambisinisterr

blackxxwolf3 wrote: »

the problem is doing a exploit in ecc or tos ot gwd will NOT affect the economy whatsoever.

You absolutely did not fully consider the implications before drawing that conclusion.

Just one way it directly effects the economy is that items in the end chests can be salvaged for AD which directly effects the economy. Anything which adds items into the system effects the economy so since virtually anything done within the game adds items into the system virtually everything effects the economy.

Ultimately any bug which makes the process of obtaining loot faster (exploit) effects the economy.

blackxxwolf3

ambisinisterr wrote: »

You absolutely did not fully consider the implications before drawing that conclusion.

Just one way it directly effects the economy is that items in the end chests can be salvaged for AD which directly effects the economy. Anything which adds items into the system effects the economy so since virtually anything done within the game adds items into the system virtually everything effects the economy.

Ultimately any bug which makes the process of obtaining loot faster (exploit) effects the economy.

i guess it does affect the economy slightly. but its not that bad considering it gets fixed everytime. i think a lot of people overreact to it when theres nothing they personally can do.

reds351

ambisinisterr wrote: »

You absolutely did not fully consider the implications before drawing that conclusion.

Just one way it directly effects the economy is that items in the end chests can be salvaged for AD which directly effects the economy. Anything which adds items into the system effects the economy so since virtually anything done within the game adds items into the system virtually everything effects the economy.

Ultimately any bug which makes the process of obtaining loot faster (exploit) effects the economy.

Most if not all of the ECC/TOS gear is bound so the max u can get from salvage a day is 24k. so its going to affect the economy about the same as leadership alt.

ambisinisterr

Leadership alts rarely make the max salvage even after they reach higher levels in leadership which takes months to achieve compared to going through dungeons which does not take nearly as much time to meet the requirements and the key point being how exploits can unbalance how fast such AD is achieved.

Just because there are safeguards to limit how much such behavior effects the economy does not mean it does not effect the economy.

Exploits happen. It effects the economy but nothing is irreversible. The only time you will anger me is by trying to argue that exploiting shouldn't be penalized, fixed or trying to argue it doesn't effect the economy. It wouldn't be an exploit if it didn't. Either you are all not considering the fact there are tens of thousands of players with hundreds of thousands of characters or you are just trying to rile me.

Exploiting is the worst thing MMO's face and it doesn't matter whether it is in PvP or not. Period. Please stop playing devils advocate because this is not a debatable topic.


EDIT - I told you to stop playing devils advocate. Padlock it is. This is not up for debate or justification.