Paladin solo/DPS

esrea

Hey everyone,

I am currently thinking about rolling up a paladin after I've been through a lot of classes after the sweeping changes of Mod 6 to the game. What I am looking for is decent survivability and adequate DPS. The closest I've come so far is my Conqueror GF. Now, I've always been a fan of paladins in general, so my questions are as follows.

1. How's soloing on a paladin? Especially in the important level 60+ and the endgame areas.
2. How's DPS? I don't want or need CW levels of pewpew, but I want to be able to (more or less) comfortably solo my daily quests.
3. How's both survivability and dps in comparison to a GF?
4. For the above mentioned playstyle, Oath of Protection or Devotion?
5. What would the starting roles on attributes be, considering I would play a human?

Thanks for answering!

equ4lizer

1. Easy to medium range difficulty, HP / DPS and healing plays a part in survivability (*if you're a devotion healing paladin)

2. Not sure how you will fare, but im able to get 1st / 2nd / 3rd ranking in terms of Healing & DPS in my latest update (skirmish /dungeons) *soloing isn't a problem for me except for a few of the icewind dale encounters

3. (havent really touched GF for a year cant comment much)

4. Devotion, used to be a protection...respec 3 times and still focused on devotion...will never look back again unless they nerf.....

5. I focus more on CON / WIS (Mainly for HP / Damage Reduction / Healing Efficiency / Criticals )

*and yes I have rank 9 stones.

Having said all these, tomorrow they are patching up protection paladins on their Vengeful Judgement capstone which will prove to allow protection paladins to survive and dps a lot more. So it might still work for you, I'll be sticking with devotion though because I'm lovin to heal and dps at the same time.

Protection Paladins seemed more PVP friendly, devotion paladins suffer from healing depression (in PVP) anyway.
I am more focused on PVE part, while trying to lean towards PVP or DPS styled feats.

That's all I have for now.

esrea

Yeah, I should have mentioned that: I'm only playing PvE, so I don't consider PvP at all.

Thanks for your information equ4lizer, one more question though: I am currently looking at the lower gear levels (around 1800 to 2000), since I am a rather new player and don't have 9s or anything. I suspect you are way above that, would the lower gear levels change anything greatly in relation to higher ones?

equ4lizer

esrea wrote: »

Yeah, I should have mentioned that: I'm only playing PvE, so I don't consider PvP at all.

Thanks for your information equ4lizer, one more question though: I am currently looking at the lower gear levels (around 1800 to 2000), since I am a rather new player and don't have 9s or anything. I suspect you are way above that, would the lower gear levels change anything greatly in relation to higher ones?

Yes I am way above average, frankly speaking you will have a easier time if you focus more being defensive / or having some healing. It is still viable, and you may find yourself having a harder time on protection paladin unless you can keep maintain the uptime of "Divine Protector" daily power etc.

equ4lizer

If theres some other paladins here that would help with you, I'll be glad to hear from their experience as well.
So far I am enjoying my paladin so much more than my warlock and old GF as well.

jesspinci

1. I have not played any other class to 70 as of the moment but I do have 3 other 60's and nothing compares to the ease of paladin soloing. I have been able to do everything at the moment without much issues.
2. The dps is pretty low at the beginning but once you start stacking HP and armor pen it picks up nicely.
3. Dps i can not really say but the difference between my pali and GF in defensive capabilities is huge. Being able to heal and gain DR/ immunity on command is great.
4. Protection all the way. Even with the bugged capstone the at-will for protection is really hard hitting and binding oath is the most insane ability. It is what allows me to solo almost anything.
5. For ability scores strength is useless. I favor wisdom a lot more than charisma. 8/18/10/10/13+2/13 is what i rolled with.

kegliskolba

have 2000 protection paladin, can solo everything, including ghost stories, cult prison, drake pens.

esrea

Those are some really positive answers I actually didn't expect them to be like this, thanks a lot for your input!

To expand slightly on that already set, since I didn't find any guides for leveling/dpsing: what's recommended for that in terms of powers? Jesspinci already said Binding Oath. I'm so-so in At-Wills (Shielding/Radiant Strike), but have no idea at all about class features/encounters/dailies. Any pointers there?

kegliskolba wrote: »

have 2000 protection paladin, can solo everything, including ghost stories, cult prison, drake pens.

Especially this is very positive, my GF has TIL 1980 gear and can't even start to solo those, unfortunately

jesspinci

I use relentless avenger, Templar wrath and binding for encounters. Dailies are divine judgement/divine protector. Features are courage and what ever really. I like to use radiance/vengeance for the passive damage. My play style is to get as many AP as possible. All the encounters give alot of AP per cast.

quspiv

Survivality is great but soloing hard enemies like giants in IWD will take forever. You can get decent overall dps in skirmishes where there's plenty of rather weak mobs and you can cast all kind of aoe's.

Unknown

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angrysprite

I'm not going to advise you on what you should or should't do, but rather give a brief explanation of my PvE experience:

I have multiples of every single class - all of them leveled to 60 and going on since Alpha/Beta. Only now is my favorite class available: Paladin, so I am intentionally switching my main from my original very first character DC to my currently leveling Protection Paladin.

I have already rolled and run a Devotion Paladin up to level 70 and run all zones with him except for the campaign zones: Sharandar, Dread Ring, Well o Dragons.

Devotion Paladin is very tanky all that way until I reached level 65 (I think I was in the middle of the second "Vigilance Zone" Reclamation Rock). Going from 63-ish to 65-ish I immediately noticed an abrupt lack of DPS/NPC damage against me from that point on. It's like a roller-coaster ride: the long, slow pull up the first hill (levels 1-65) then the sudden super-steep drop down a cliff (level 65+). I was utterly amazed at the change. Were I a new player having never experienced Neverwinter before I'd figure my game broke. At these levels you will likely suck a few pots, I surely did.

Devotion Paladin at Spinward Rise: The "elite brutes" are the Cloud Giants in the open zone. When going against a pair of them with adds was a challenge: low DPS and survivability; I had to kite in Sanctuary to keep my health up (Devotion path can kite in Sanctuary for a rapid heal: full health from near zero in about 5 seconds). When I tried Ghost Stories with my level 70 Devotion Paladin and all level 70 blue gear with purple level 70 off gear (rings, belt, neck) I still got my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>$ handed to me by the second mob. I gave up Ghost Stories completely; will not run it again.

My feeling on Devotion Paladin and survivability against level 71-73 NPCs: You'd better have a damned good companion or party-up. It's not fun. You can survive it all, but plan on spending a LOT of time whacking these groups down; and this is my complaint: everything just takes way too parking long.

***

Currently leveling my Protection Paladin (level 48 as I write this): so far tankiness and survivability is stunning. Everything is Temp HP and lots of it. I am personally more comfortable with the tankiness of this path and willing to trade off DPS for it. I am also using a Holy Knight Mace (150 Ardent Coins) which levels with me to 70 and have slotted a Perfect Terror and Rank 12 Dark in it so the DPS is pretty respectable. That's all I can report on this version of Paladin at this point. I am having more fun with this paladin than I did with either of my GFs - but I've always been a Paladin fan, so -shrug-

***

As for Auras and encounter powers/daily and all that: the paladin has the most exciting variety of any of the other classes - it's actually pretty difficult to decide on which you want to use. I'm experimenting with all of them and almost every single one is something I want to keep. In short during leveling process I'm mostly sticking with Bane, Templar's, and Smite and intend to grab onto Relentless Avenger the moment I unlock it (it's my favorite with my other Paladin) and it's amazing if you use it *correctly* in HEs and Parties...IF you use it *correctly*.

Sorry for the wall-o-text, I hope it at least helps give a little insight from another perspective.

kegliskolba

esrea wrote: »

what's recommended for that in terms of powers?

templar's wrath is a must. everything else is debatable. depends if you solo or group, easy skirmishes or hard dungeons etc.

esrea

Thanks for all the input so far, that's pretty unanimous feedback

One more question (and I hope I'll be done then ): companions. I usually run with a companion, not an augment. On all classes so far (HR, GF, GWF and CW) I prefer to have someone able to heal me (Angel, Prietess of Sune, Lillend) if push comes to shove. Now a paladin seems to have a lot more in the self-healing department, even as protection. Is a healing companion still a good idea? Maybe one who has one damage skill? Is the squire from the OP Booster Pack good enough to justify shelling out 30 bucks?

angrysprite

esrea wrote: »

Thanks for all the input so far, that's pretty unanimous feedback

One more question (and I hope I'll be done then ): companions. I usually run with a companion, not an augment. On all classes so far (HR, GF, GWF and CW) I prefer to have someone able to heal me (Angel, Prietess of Sune, Lillend) if push comes to shove. Now a paladin seems to have a lot more in the self-healing department, even as protection. Is a healing companion still a good idea? Maybe one who has one damage skill? Is the squire from the OP Booster Pack good enough to justify shelling out 30 bucks?

I have the OP Booster and that's the primary companion I run with. The Helm and Shield are must-haves for the transmutation look, though the Mace of Knight (Ardent Coins mace) is still the best (better stats that Dragon Bone and Mulhurand). Other than the Squire that comes with the booster pack any will suffice. It just depends on which you like theme-wise, really.

Though for a Devotion Paladin I'd still strongly consider a healer companion (The squire from the booster pack does well and can also help heal party). With my Protection Paladin any companion will do, right now I'm enjoying my Dire Wolf from Guardian pack - it constantly interrupts and bloks mobs from getting at me and has great survivability: the mobs is aggroed against me so doesn't attack the wolf, but the wolf is actively blocking and attacking him. It's a match made in heaven in terms of efficiency in combat. LOL

quspiv

You dont really need healing companion unless you're planing to solo HE with bad gear. Everything else can be done with dps companion. I'd recommend some ranged aoe dps. You will have the agro all the time and they shouldnt take much dmg, but if you pick melee companion they may often die to variouvs aoe.

jondbx

kegliskolba wrote: »

have 2000 protection paladin, can solo everything, including ghost stories, cult prison, drake pens.

Protection is much easier for soloing than devotion.

k3ll0

angrysprite wrote: »

-- though the Mace of Knight (Ardent Coins mace) is still the best (better stats that Dragon Bone and Mulhurand).

Better than Ancient Mully maybe; Enso, not so much.

BTW when did the 150-Ardent weapons start level-scaling? Would've saved me a fair bit of AD if I'd known... :c

esrea

k3ll0 wrote: »

BTW when did the 150-Ardent weapons start level-scaling? Would've saved me a fair bit of AD if I'd known... :c

I got a full set of Ensorcelled Mulhorand, I don't have the coins and besides, they will serve me well on 70 until I can get the artifact equipment to epic and beyond. For newer players it's not exactly easy to get all the RP collected.

As for companion, I'll probably go with one of the mages (Renegade Evoker, etc.) first, can switch to a healer later on if needed I guess. Or just bite the bullet and get the paladin pack, like angrysprite suggested. Besides, more bags is always good...

alkemist80

70 Devotion Justice OP, no problems with anything and my solo DPS is adequate. I can solo all the lairs, though if I make a mistake in WoD lairs or Biggrin's end boss, it may end up taking more than one try.

I go with almost with a full DPS loadout when soloing.

At-wills: Oath Strike, Radiant Strike
Encounters: Divine Touch, Templar's Wrath, Relentless Avenger
Features: Aura of Courage, Aura of Wisdom
Daily: Divine Judgement, Healing Font

I use templar's wrath for aoe damage but primarily to stun the targets. Then I pick which one I want to kill first, use relentless avenger to scatter the rest and divine touch (primarily) for healing and light damage. If the main target dies, I use Radiant Strike to charge to the next target (and also for the ArP buff). Primary daily would be divine judgement to kill things faster and healing font if I am going to get swarmed and beat on hard, it sends me periodical heal as I continue to focus on killing the enemies. Sanctuary as necessary, since for devotion it heals or if I need to preposition myself. Oath strike as necessary (while waiting on cooldown's). Rinse and repeat. There is normally no survival issues.

Before my augment companion, which I use 100% of the time now, I either used the frost mimic or a striker companion, depending on situation.

Edit: Forgot to mention divine call. Gives healing and also a self damage buff as justice capstone.

rematch154

Hello i have a question are paladins able to dps endgame in dungeons and pvp? i just hit 70 and choose the paladin because i was hoping i could dps (almost like a ret paladin) while supporting in dungeons without beeing classed as a tank or healer? are paladins worth playing as a dps or did i just choose the wrong class and have to start the grind all over again?

alkemist80

rematch154 wrote: »

Hello i have a question are paladins able to dps endgame in dungeons and pvp? i just hit 70 and choose the paladin because i was hoping i could dps (almost like a ret paladin) while supporting in dungeons without beeing classed as a tank or healer? are paladins worth playing as a dps or did i just choose the wrong class and have to start the grind all over again?

For PvE, even with the justice tree, paladins will never be classified as DPS. Sorry to break your bubble. We are support and can put out adequate DPS as we support but compared to a real DPS class, we fall short, very short, unless for some reason you out gear the rest of the team. When people see an OP in a group, they either expect you to tank or heal, technically, that is what our 2 paragon paths are. Unless you run with friends or a group of people you know, there are more potent classes to take to fill a DPS role and will probably get passed up unless they are looking for a specific set of skills. Even in that regard, sadly a DC still makes a better buffer/debuffer.

I can't comment on PvP since I play PvE strictly.

equ4lizer

alkemist80 wrote: »

For PvE, even with the justice tree, paladins will never be classified as DPS. Sorry to break your bubble. We are support and can put out adequate DPS as we support but compared to a real DPS class, we fall short, very short, unless for some reason you out gear the rest of the team. When people see an OP in a group, they either expect you to tank or heal, technically, that is what our 2 paragon paths are. Unless you run with friends or a group of people you know, there are more potent classes to take to fill a DPS role and will probably get passed up unless they are looking for a specific set of skills. Even in that regard, sadly a DC still makes a better buffer/debuffer.

I can't comment on PvP since I play PvE strictly.

That is not true, I can easily top or be placed at 2nd place in any PvE epic dungeons or epic skirmish with justice tree paladin, sorry to burst your bubble too gearwise I'm just slightly better than some of the pugs and some actually outgeared my paladin. I am only expected to dps and heal, not required to tank at all.

DC is still very useful in terms of buffering and debuffing, having said all these I am having tons of fun compared to other classes that I've ever played or touched in Neverwinter.

And I am focused on PVE compared to PVP, hardly ever PVP.

alkemist80

equ4lizer wrote: »

That is not true, I can easily top or be placed at 2nd place in any PvE epic dungeons or epic skirmish with justice tree paladin, sorry to burst your bubble too gearwise I'm just slightly better than some of the pugs and some actually outgeared my paladin. I am only expected to dps and heal, not required to tank at all.

Really depends on whom you play with and your encounter load out, it's possible to do. I've done it easy with random pugs but when compared to a DPS class that is geared and they their toon inside and out, a paladin will fall short.

I like my paladin and I'm not telling the guy to go reroll, but we weren't meant to be a striker class. Compared to my trapper HR, the DPS output is only, adequate.

equ4lizer

alkemist80 wrote: »

Really depends on whom you play with and your encounter load out, it's possible to do. I've done it easy with random pugs but when compared to a DPS class that is geared and they their toon inside and out, a paladin will fall short.

I like my paladin and I'm not telling the guy to go reroll, but we weren't meant to be a striker class. Compared to my trapper HR, the DPS output is only, adequate.

I believe we can change our destiny and continue to be a form of striker maybe a mid version with high levels of support. One factor that might attribute to this was because my paladin is quite decked out, and nowadays I've only seen GWF / CW outdps me but not other classes. Also perhaps they need to buff other classes.

alkemist80

equ4lizer wrote: »

I believe we can change our destiny and continue to be a form of striker maybe a mid version with high levels of support. One factor that might attribute to this was because my paladin is quite decked out, and nowadays I've only seen GWF / CW outdps me but not other classes. Also perhaps they need to buff other classes.

I agree, devotion justice OP is certainly no joke, so it maybe possible with good gear, top enchants and companions.

Just wouldn't set expectations to the roof for the person asking the question. The paladin has a niche of it's own but I personally do not feel it's a class for everyone.

kolbathin

Binding Oath.

It scales your damage with how much damage you take.

DP and BO make for a POTENT bomb, make sure to have DR buffs up and running when you blow....

I can easily compete with top dpsers as a tank in t2 cause you know those mobs hit HARD. But thats with a DPS tank spec.

Get into the habit of having a ton of portable altars and injury kits with you do, cause you blow up ALOT

kaiserschmarrn

They ruined/nerfed the enchant ticks from Vow of Enmity with the last patch. It was an important feature if you wanted to contribute a little damage. A defense specced pala will now deal less dps than a healing focused DC.

equ4lizer

kaiserschmarrn wrote: »

They ruined/nerfed the enchant ticks from Vow of Enmity with the last patch. It was an important feature if you wanted to contribute a little damage. A defense specced pala will now deal less dps than a healing focused DC.

Thank goodness i am a dps spec healing devotion paladin, none of these really affected much of my damage.