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Do you like artifact gear? Do you want more in game?
diogene0
Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
I think we didn't have such a thread in months.
Please no trolling/fighting. This is intended to be constructive feedback, not an arena or a cryptic bashing thread - keep it open, thanks.
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Cryptic's justification for artifact gear is that it's fun to improve your equipment. With every module, we get more and more of this gear. Eventually, normal gear will disappear if they keep going in that direction. Is that something the playerbase wishes? Is that even fun?
Please no trolling/fighting. This is intended to be constructive feedback, not an arena or a cryptic bashing thread - keep it open, thanks.
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Cryptic's justification for artifact gear is that it's fun to improve your equipment. With every module, we get more and more of this gear. Eventually, normal gear will disappear if they keep going in that direction. Is that something the playerbase wishes? Is that even fun?
Post edited by diogene0 on
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Let me play the game and directly work to improve my gear, with no other tricks or hurdles required.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Actually, cryptic listens, sometimes, even if it takes time. Players asked for harder content. We got mod 6 and T2 dungeons (and I'm thankful for that). Players like new classes. Cryptic makes one with every module, which is a lot. Players didn't like too long dungeons, we got VT, then Kessell's, and with every module, group content is shorter. With Kessell's and tiamat, we're almost to the point that dungeons are a big room with three adds and a chest, lol. Players didn't like adds fests, dungeons now have mechanics. It took two years but it's there!
I know it takes time, sometimes years, but they do take feedback into account eventually. And they do things. But they have to know.
I voted no and I don't want more because to me it's not fun. They don't want to make content rewarding, and it's too much of a grind to be fun. The content I like (pvp, group content), has almost no RP rewards, or you have to pay twice or three times the market prices to get some RP in campaign chests (lol). And I hope that if everyone agrees with that statement, they will listen and stop.
So yeah ... that's how I feel about artifact gear
Also please toss your conspiracy theories aside. Refining artifact gear is progression, period. Remember pre mod 1 days, before the refinement system was introduced? People got there T2 sets and were left without anything else they wanted. And no, nobody cared about making perfect enchants besides the hardcore PVPers. Artifacts (mod 1) gave us a way to progress, but again nobody cared to make legendary artifacts. So they gave us artifact gear. Now people want to make legendary just for the bonuses.
The system works. Its not perfect but it works.
... or we could have content progression. Like raids. It's much more fun than grinding mobs like a bot to get the much needed RP drops.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The theory of improving your gear as you play being fun is something I agree with. Improving my gear is part of improving my character and that's a fundamental part of why I play RPG games. The main problem is that the actual game interface and mechanics around improving gear (refining) is clunky and unnecessarily time consuming IMO. That's not including the time to upgrade item levels, just what's involved in the refining process.
I do think it would be much better if items passively gained RP (or XP, whatever) and the players only action was to upgrade at certain points, perhaps more frequently that current. Would depend on how the upgrade process was handled, especially cost. Another possible downside is that it may shift the focus onto game content and people might need other motivation to play, currently a lot of motivation seems to relate to rewards.
Progression needs a counter. Till you reach max level, XP gets the job done. At max level you need something else - hello RP.
As it is done currently, I don't. Too much, too many, too expensive to grind, too little game-accessible upgrade material sources since Mod 6, too much more power in comparison to "normal" epics. Also the slot loss / late unlocking on belts and cloaks (This made _some_ sense when utility slots still helped its progression, but currently it's a grave disadvantage and a slap in every player's face!). Completely derailed.
There would be ways to ameliorate this - reduce the RP demand or increase the supply as a first, choice of slot unlocking order or a switch using AugCubes, offer specific upgrading quests for big leaps in progress, etc. etc. Heck, even ArtiGear in additional slots might be nice - if you limit the number of simultaneously wearable AG items to 3 + Weapon (or rather even three in total). Heck again, even the lean RP yields we see now would have been OK-ish - had those been in effect since the launch of artifact gear. Also this is mostly incompatible with the current gear's probably "best before" date :^/
Less would have been more.
TL;DR: Not a bad concept, just hideously executed.
Please NO MORE POWER CREEP
I see it as an artificial and unnatural way to keep people playing.
Instead of adding pve and pvp content they invented artifacts, so you have to farm and farm for your items. Dont missundertand me, farming is ok (this is a MMO in the end) but the ammount of RP needed for upgrading is huge, and you dont enjoy very much repeating over and over again the same 1hour dungeon/foundry.
They have based the whole game in refinemet," refine your enchants & your items, but it wont be fun, you will need tons of RP doing the same 2-3 things day after day. Oh! and if you like pvp... you wont get any refinement from it, sorry".
As some1 said in other post, this game is a refinement simulator, its the only goal of the whole game.
PS: Same goes for campaings, doing same quest over and over again IS NOT FUN, it might be the first week, maybe the second, but doing the same dailys over and over again is OBVIOUSLY not fun. But you need them for the boons, so bad luck man! another boring stuff to do!
PS2: an advice to developers; first thing you should care is about making the game fun, very fun, second is make it newbie friendly (a new player need months to complete campaings and get some decent gear), third is remove everything remotely pay to win, such as all the refinement stuff (artifacts&artifact equipment&enchants), earn your money from fashion things, not placing a gap between players that payed and those who didnt.
It might sound weird, but it works; its better having 5 million of happy players that buy few things than having 200k players and try to squeeze all their money out (if you go to zen market you will see what im talking about, things that in other mmo are free or easy obtainable here worth almost like a brand new game), this must stop, avarice wont help you, a healthy relationship with your players will.
As a good thing to do for next mod, you can try to base this game in skill not in how much you have payed for refinement.
make everything an artifact and give zero RP from drops that will be best for players
The other problem is that Weaponsmithing and Artifacing have become the two most useless and pointless professions. I preferred the idea of crafting my own weapons before. There is speculation that rings will be next on the artrifact menu meaning that Jewellcrafting will also be rendered obsolete with companion gear being so superior to anything else at the moment.
Why anyone would waste money on Blood Rubies is beyond me. It's probably the most overpriced item in the zen store.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The idea. How it's implemented in Neverwinter right now makes it really tedious. Cryptic is dangling something very cool in our faces, but makes it extremely difficult to actually participate in.
See my thread here on RefinementL
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?928421-Why-Refinement-Points-Should-Be-Plentiful-Good-for-the-economy!
If they changed the system so that RP was plentiful and your average player felt like they could participate in the system, it would be great.
But as it stands now, most of the cooler aspects of Artifact Equipment are simply out of reach for your average player.
And long term, I'd love if they'd be consistent with how players obtain top gear. I'd love to see a mix of Artifact gear, Dungeon gear and Crafted gear.
My thoughts? Totally PvE related (as I personally think all PvP gear should be ONLY for PvP, and PvE gear should ONLY be for PvE)
Right now we have 4 Artifact gear slots: Mainhand, Offhand, Neck, Belt. Keep those. BUT change the RP philosophy so that improving your Artifact gear is something that's meant to be done via the campaigns, epic quest lines or other solo play. Basically, you can get BiS (a long term task, but let's measure it in weeks or months, not years) in these slots if you're diligent in your solo play.
Armor Slots: Hat, Boots, Chest, Gloves. These are dungeon pieces. Other nice gear slots can be found or crafted, but the very best pieces come from dungeons. If you want to get the best, then you need to group up and get in dungeons. So that's the second aspect of the game you need to participate in.
Rings, Shirt, Pants. The best here are always crafted. You might need rare resources that drop via solo campaigning or in dungeons, but you'll need to level up your crafting to get these. Second tier stuff might be found in dungeons, or soloing, but the very best gear is going to require you to participate in a third aspect of the game, crafting.
To recap:
Mainhand, Offhand, Neck, Belt: Best is Artifact Gear (solo play), 2nd is dungeons, 3rd is crafted
Head, Gloves, Chest, Boots: Best is Dungeon Gear (group play), 2nd is crafted, 3rd is campaign/solo
Rings, Shirt, Pants: Best is Crafted Gear (solo/crafting), 2nd campaign/solo play, 3rd is dungeons
So there you have it. A gear system that lays out paths to BiS gear through different aspects of the game: Solo play, group play, crafting. If you want the best of the best, you need to participate in all three. Most players will amass of combination of all three, and fill in the gaps in other ways that suit their play styles.
THE PROBLEM IS THE BORING TEDIOUS NOT MOTIVATING REFINEMENT SYSTEM !!
THE PROBLEM IS THE BORING TEDIOUS NOT MOTIVATING REFINEMENT SYSTEM !!
People are entitled to their opinion, but it's a shame a fair amount of people voted that they like it when it could be so much better or even fairer. Granted the issues really pop up after you reach epic since that's just 10% of the way to BiS. 3% in the case of regular artifacts, I guess that makes it sound really bad if they release mythic quality equipment as the max rank.
Every day you can a book for your class by completing a dungeon.
a chance more or less high to get a book completing skirmishes.
books buyable with glory too.
I would like to see Artifact Rings/Shirts/Pants crafted by players with very rare materials.
i got 60 lvl artifact belt, and it was 24 rank, and i have to throw away for 70 lvl artifact belt? sound like i start over, and next few mod release, i would never able to max at that speed, this is very bad "cycle of getting it, adding it, and then decarded for next upgrades, and repeat.
it become no longer fun, i saw 140 levels into "Mythical"
what i REALLY prefer, is to have an item that leveled on it own just like we earned xp, just like companions were leveling, but without "requiring" stones or refine upgrades. just "Pure" xp leveling items.
reason why, we have very limited packbags, it doesnt make sense to clutter up when we pick up the loots.
If there was none I would be in a world of hurt given the current content
It should take a new player months to complete campaigns and get decent gear. The game was way too easy up to Mod 3-ish.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
...it should take months to get BiS-like gear.
Decent? No. A basic survivability gear should be available within a few days after hitting maxlevel, and then you should be capable of acquiring the next better layer within weeks. NB: Without spending RL cash to buy game currency, IMHO.
And this "climbing the mountain" is nigh impossible right now, as the whole middle tier of gear that the campaigns should and had provide(d) has vanished. Foomf. Not a good approach. And RP-wise it's even worse...
I'd be with you if you'd say gear acquisition was too easy in Mod 5 - because everybody and their grandma could leech their way to good gear in Tia's and Herald-zergs. Even in Mod 4 this wasn't that easy, and in Mod 1-3 you first had to get your Artificing/Weaponsmithing up to level 20 to get the BiS weapon...