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So when will rogues get a nerf/Fixed?

projectdannyprojectdanny Member Posts: 23 Arc User
edited May 2015 in PvP Discussion
As the title says....

I'm sick and tired of being in full pvp gear as a cleric buffing myself with all the defense skills I got and then only to be 1 shot for 400k damage in pvp then have them spam me with "rekt"

Not only that every party always has 2 rogues I see way too many...

Yes this is a rant post and yes I got killed by an exploiting rogue.... that shadow thing needs a fix bad... not that it will... but w.e

I'll be going to elderscrolls online anyways... that has some bugs sure but not on the magnitude of this game... its ridiculous... fix your **** game already!!!
Post edited by projectdanny on
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Comments

  • divine82pvpdivine82pvp Member Posts: 101 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    projectdanny wrote: »
    As the title says....

    I'm sick and tired of being in full pvp gear as a cleric buffing myself with all the defense skills I got and then only to be 1 shot for 400k damage in pvp then have them spam me with "rekt"

    Not only that every party always has 2 rogues I see way too many...

    Yes this is a rant post and yes I got killed by an exploiting rogue.... that shadow thing needs a fix bad... not that it will... but w.e

    I'll be going to elderscrolls online anyways... that has some bugs sure but not on the magnitude of this game... its ridiculous... fix your **** game already!!!

    It seems like every day there is a different thread about rogues. First off, reason why rogues hit so hard is because we are playing on mod 5 database with none of the other campaigns boons that's we are suppose to have by now. That's why there is so much burst damage on Xbox. Second, most of the Rekt guys took notes from the PC guys ( alysin chains ) and went daze lock build on their rogues it was pretty OP on pc when mod 5 was out, so that mixed with us not having all the boons we are suppose to have by now makes for a headache. Fast forward to mod 6 on PC rogues are very vanilla, daze duration has been halfed, shadow of demise bug has been fixed, and a 3 second reveal has been implemented ( no more perma stealth ( fappy Gilmore <3 ) ( not sure if that's out yet, but I know they are doing it ). So yes Rekt is running FOTM's, but that is going to happen in every game.
    Tenacity PvP Guild
    Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard
    twitch.tv/Divine1982
  • geltabgeltab Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 104 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    Saboteur tr will still permanent stealth. Look at pc forums, people are Pissed the reveal is gone. Long live perma stealth. Us pc NW players will always hold out as annoyances. Age and wisdom kind of thing.


    -Fappy Gilmore-
  • azuosed89azuosed89 Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think you have to post it on the feedback/bug area. I think if they fix shadow of demise it will be alright.
    Gannicus GWF PvP
    DENIAL
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Actually, I was never the daze build on PC.

    Rekt TRs are smart players and created there own build, they didn't get there current builds from me. Some of them use the same build with minot differences. I liked the idea of the daze build so I put points into my own build, thus far having great success.

    Executioner builds are fun to play, but the one shot TRs don't stand a chance against a well played Scoundrel..in my opinion.
  • mizzou0mizzou0 Member Posts: 41
    edited May 2015
    geltab wrote: »
    Saboteur tr will still permanent stealth. Look at pc forums, people are Pissed the reveal is gone. Long live perma stealth. Us pc NW players will always hold out as annoyances. Age and wisdom kind of thing.


    -Fappy Gilmore-

    Everyone knows you and your Perma stealth is annoying lol.
    Can't hit what you can't see :P
    MIZZOU
    Control Wizard
  • divine82pvpdivine82pvp Member Posts: 101 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    mizzou0 wrote: »
    Everyone knows you and your Perma stealth is annoying lol.
    Can't hit what you can't see :P

    Storm pillar FTW!!!!
    Tenacity PvP Guild
    Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard
    twitch.tv/Divine1982
  • mizzou0mizzou0 Member Posts: 41
    edited May 2015
    yep, it helps for sure!!!!
    MIZZOU
    Control Wizard
  • dubocidedubocide Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Honestly I think that guardian fighters are also kind of disappointing as PvP characters. While they have the defence and health to make up for their low damage they are really no match against players with control effects and good ranged attacks...especially when going against 2 people at once.
  • azuosed89azuosed89 Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dubocide wrote: »
    Honestly I think that guardian fighters are also kind of disappointing as PvP characters. While they have the defence and health to make up for their low damage they are really no match against players with control effects and good ranged attacks...especially when going against 2 people at once.

    I have seen decent GFs holding nodes against up to 3 players and surviving until they get back up just fine.
    Gannicus GWF PvP
    DENIAL
  • latinlegendlatinlegend Member Posts: 43
    edited May 2015
    The class was not well designed on many levels by the developer which is the biggest issue. For many generations of MMORPG's, rouges or assassin/dagger classes which they were called in old school MMORPG's were designed to do one thing, get behind enemy lines & be an annoyance. They were designed to have some of the best sustain damage of any class with constant poisons & skills that would hinder a single target. Mainly healers or mages. They were not designed to take down any heavy armor unit or have an insane amount of burst damage. They did have stealth but you would have to break stealth before landing any attack. Outside of some games that had an AOE dagger ability, the class never had any AOE nor did they ever have an AOE CC. Jumping into stealth & retreating to strike again was there only escape which did break them out of any CC in that time. Stealth was on a set CD to prevent permanent stealth situations. They were a class that would be a distraction to the opposing team while other class roles did what needed to be done. THAT is proper rouge design. Not the mess that NW has.
  • dubocidedubocide Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    For me any time I get dazed or frozen or stunned I might as well be dead right then because usually I don't survive after that...and if I do I have no health
  • geltabgeltab Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 104 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    latinlegend wrote: »
    The class was not well designed on many levels by the developer which is the biggest issue. For many generations of MMORPG's, rouges or assassin/dagger classes which they were called in old school MMORPG's were designed to do one thing, get behind enemy lines & be an annoyance. They were designed to have some of the best sustain damage of any class with constant poisons & skills that would hinder a single target. Mainly healers or mages. They were not designed to take down any heavy armor unit or have an insane amount of burst damage. They did have stealth but you would have to break stealth before landing any attack. Outside of some games that had an AOE dagger ability, the class never had any AOE nor did they ever have an AOE CC. Jumping into stealth & retreating to strike again was there only escape which did break them out of any CC in that time. Stealth was on a set CD to prevent permanent stealth situations. They were a class that would be a distraction to the opposing team while other class roles did what needed to be done. THAT is proper rouge design. Not the mess that NW has.

    Comparing one games version of a rogue to another isn't a logical or functional way to try and fix a class. You are playing THIS game currently, so I would recommend learning to adapt your play style. I am not trying to sound like a ******, but if you can't get around the different variables of this games mechanics then go play something else. Us TR's will still have plenty of people to play with.

    -Fappy Gilmore-
    Rekt
  • reallyreconreallyrecon Member Posts: 170 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    latinlegend wrote: »
    THAT is proper rouge design.
    dictionary.com wrote:
    "rouge" [roozh]
    noun
    1. any of various red cosmetics for coloring the cheeks or lips.
    2. a reddish powder, chiefly ferric oxide, used for polishing metal, glass, etc.
    3. Canadian football

    Come again?
    Recon - 60 Cleric
    Gamertag: ReallyRecon
  • strandthemanstrandtheman Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dubocide wrote: »
    Honestly I think that guardian fighters are also kind of disappointing as PvP characters. While they have the defence and health to make up for their low damage they are really no match against players with control effects and good ranged attacks...especially when going against 2 people at once.

    LOL! I laugh at your wrongful perception of my people in the area of damage and PvP. :p

    _______________________________
    Primal Instinct
    Indominus Rex - Guardian Fighter/PvP Pancake Maker
  • divine82pvpdivine82pvp Member Posts: 101 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    strandtheman wrote: »
    LOL! I laugh at your wrongful perception of my people in the area of damage and PvP. :p

    _______________________________
    Primal Instinct
    Indominus Rex - Guardian Fighter/PvP Pancake Maker

    I have nothing against GF, but currently running a cleric instead of one is way more beneficial. I know one thing that would make GF really useful in PVP but it will never happen, tanks and brutes had it in City of Heroes and villains. Is a single target taunt. Basically taunting a foe only makes it where you can attack the person taunting you. That would instant make GF viable. I also wish intead of daze for smoke bomb it had a confuse effect to it. Basically while in smoke bomb friendly become enemy and enemies become friendly while in Smoke bomb. Cryptic owned COH, it would be nice to steal a few ideas from that game. To bad it will never happen.
    Tenacity PvP Guild
    Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard
    twitch.tv/Divine1982
  • latinlegendlatinlegend Member Posts: 43
    edited May 2015
    geltab wrote: »
    Comparing one games version of a rogue to another isn't a logical or functional way to try and fix a class. You are playing THIS game currently, so I would recommend learning to adapt your play style. I am not trying to sound like a ******, but if you can't get around the different variables of this games mechanics then go play something else. Us TR's will still have plenty of people to play with.

    I've been adapting to MMORPG's playstyles since Meridian 59. One of the first MMORPG's to hit the market. I know bad design when I see it & the rouge design in this game is horrid. Not that I am against the evolution of class design or game mechanics but when a game gets it wrong, as is the case with Neverwinter, I call them out on it. As for having plenty of people to play with, enjoy it while it's there. Once superior MMORPG games hit the console, Neverwinter will quickly become an afterthought to a majority of the people playing it now. As was the case on the PC side where the game is struggling to maintain members & is considered a flop after it's initial strong launch. Especially in the western market where P2W/gacha mechanics are frowned on. History will repeat itself on the Xbox One as well. That much is obvious. That scenario is likely to be expedited if they keep making boneheaded decisions like this...

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/xbox/neverwinter/news/detail/9232233

    Should see the uproar on Facebook with that announcement! ;)
  • dreamyydreamyy Member Posts: 0
    edited May 2015
    So is the multi proc SoD by using DoT enchant the only reason TRs are OP right now?

    I hope so because as far as I can tell, my perfect vorpal doesn't multi proc SoD, which means I'm not making use of the exploit.

    If so then I'm happy to see the nerf coming, means no changes to my damage output.

    That way the FotM players can all go reroll more CW for me to kill.

    15k+ gear score
    Perfect Vorpal Trumps any exploit.
  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dreamyy wrote: »
    So is the multi proc SoD by using DoT enchant the only reason TRs are OP right now?

    I hope so because as far as I can tell, my perfect vorpal doesn't multi proc SoD, which means I'm not making use of the exploit.

    If so then I'm happy to see the nerf coming, means no changes to my damage output.

    That way the FotM players can all go reroll more CW for me to kill.

    15k+ gear score
    Perfect Vorpal Trumps any exploit.

    Loooooooool

    Sorry I needed ten characters to post my "lol"
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
  • dreamyydreamyy Member Posts: 0
    edited May 2015
    krad777 wrote: »
    Loooooooool

    Sorry I needed ten characters to post my "lol"

    Well what upcoming patches are going to nerf SoD?

    From what I saw one of the patches made SoD not work properly anymore (I.e. apply only 50% of the first strike only) and it fixed the multi proc of SoD using DoT enchants.

    So what path destroying feat change its coming to rogues that maKe exec builds useless?

    I rarely get kills from SoD procs, so what is it?
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dreamyy wrote: »
    Well what upcoming patches are going to nerf SoD?

    From what I saw one of the patches made SoD not work properly anymore (I.e. apply only 50% of the first strike only) and it fixed the multi proc of SoD using DoT enchants.

    So what path destroying feat change its coming to rogues that maKe exec builds useless?

    I rarely get kills from SoD procs, so what is it?

    None. Which is what I've tried telling folks.

    In fact the changes in Mod 6 upgrade quite a few of the encounters Executioners typically use.

    I don't think people fully understand how SoD actually works. Initial hit starts, and any damage in 6 seconds adds to the 50% Piercing Damage of the actual Proc. You get those people that like to stand still, or are forced to because of a Stun or Slow(deft) opener and unload with DF(is what I did), and I was getting 15k procs all day long just using a Vorpal.

    Tears will be many when Mod 6 is introduced and the fan boys are still getting crushed by good TRs.
  • azuosed89azuosed89 Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    i dont think it works as 50%. it feels much more than that.. I am glad you used the word "forced" rather than only stand still. And indeed, mod 6 has great trs, but I dont see people crying like they are now. so indeed, something is wrong right now.
    Gannicus GWF PvP
    DENIAL
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    azuosed89 wrote: »
    i dont think it works as 50%. it feels much more than that.. I am glad you used the word "forced" rather than only stand still. And indeed, mod 6 has great trs, but I dont see people crying like they are now. so indeed, something is wrong right now.

    Right that's the problem. Currently, if you use a DoT based weapon enchant it will proc for 100% damage, not 50.

    Point being though even when it does get fixed, a well played TR will stack damage in 6 seconds and the proc will be 50%, but that doesn't mean it will be "minor" damage.
  • dreamyydreamyy Member Posts: 0
    edited May 2015
    munkey81 wrote: »
    Right that's the problem. Currently, if you use a DoT based weapon enchant it will proc for 100% damage, not 50.

    Point being though even when it does get fixed, a well played TR will stack damage in 6 seconds and the proc will be 50%, but that doesn't mean it will be "minor" damage.

    Good news for me then since I use perfect vorpal, that means I won't really see too much change in dps.

    I just feel so forced when it comes to my own personal one shot rogue. LB is forced. Shadow Strike is forced if you want to actually contest nodes 1v5 and actually get kills without dying. (Also making use of 10% cooldown reduction feat)

    What I have noticed with highly competitive teams is that I am forced to take ITC or be guaranteed to be chain CC'D all day.

    I just feel pigeonholed with required skills.

    Obviously the required skills change based on how you want to play/what path you take
  • grabmooregrabmoore Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dreamyy wrote: »
    Good news for me then since I use perfect vorpal, that means I won't really see too much change in dps.

    I just feel so forced when it comes to my own personal one shot rogue. LB is forced. Shadow Strike is forced if you want to actually contest nodes 1v5 and actually get kills without dying. (Also making use of 10% cooldown reduction feat)

    What I have noticed with highly competitive teams is that I am forced to take ITC or be guaranteed to be chain CC'D all day.

    I just feel pigeonholed with required skills.

    Obviously the required skills change based on how you want to play/what path you take

    Good news for you in PvE, yes. In PvP executioner won't bring you anywhere, since it's points that matter, not kills. You won't hold a node vs two enemies as soon as peole are gearing up.
    @grabmoore

    Heroes of Darkness

    Retired since 02/15
    My opinions are my own. Please do not judge my friends nor guild for my statements.
  • dreamyydreamyy Member Posts: 0
    edited May 2015
    grabmoore wrote: »
    Good news for you in PvE, yes. In PvP executioner won't bring you anywhere, since it's points that matter, not kills. You won't hold a node vs two enemies as soon as peole are gearing up.

    Oh I play one shot like a Sab backcapper, I can have perma stealth with proper skill management and the dps of one shot. Honestly haven't found anything close to it besides scoundrel rogue (which is from what I've seen/heard quite overpowered in mod 5)

    I go 1vs3 on back node and can consistently kill the other three, thus enabling a 4vs2 at mid for my team. Against top teams the most I can handle is 1vs2, but if there is a cleric, then I might as well pack my bags in getting any kills on the back node, more or less just doing my job of pulling 2 players away from mid, and with 1 at our home node back capping makes it 2v2 in mid most of the time.

    I just hate going against HR that provides his team with a free dodge, direct counter to my one shot for sure.
  • jrourkejrourke Member Posts: 60
    edited May 2015
    projectdanny wrote: »
    As the title says....

    I'm sick and tired of being in full pvp gear as a cleric buffing myself with all the defense skills I got and then only to be 1 shot for 400k damage in pvp then have them spam me with "rekt"


    Not only that every party always has 2 rogues I see way too many...

    Yes this is a rant post and yes I got killed by an exploiting rogue.... that shadow thing needs a fix bad... not that it will... but w.e

    I'll be going to elderscrolls online anyways... that has some bugs sure but not on the magnitude of this game... its ridiculous... fix your **** game already!!!

    Arc do not give a sh|?!!!!!! They get their jollies from making people angry even better if they make some money out of you as well , the developers and moderators laugh themselves to sleep at the abusiveness of rogue players and those that vote kick near the end of boss fights.
  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    dreamyy wrote: »
    Oh I play one shot like a Sab backcapper, I can have perma stealth with proper skill management and the dps of one shot. Honestly haven't found anything close to it besides scoundrel rogue (which is from what I've seen/heard quite overpowered in mod 5)

    I go 1vs3 on back node and can consistently kill the other three, thus enabling a 4vs2 at mid for my team. Against top teams the most I can handle is 1vs2, but if there is a cleric, then I might as well pack my bags in getting any kills on the back node, more or less just doing my job of pulling 2 players away from mid, and with 1 at our home node back capping makes it 2v2 in mid most of the time.

    I just hate going against HR that provides his team with a free dodge, direct counter to my one shot for sure.

    Lol not gonna lie, this post pretty much helps the argument of Rogues being op.

    But I don't disagree with you as this is pretty much what a rogue is capable of.
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
  • blueberry1973blueberry1973 Member Posts: 58
    edited May 2015
    dreamyy wrote: »
    Oh I play one shot like a Sab backcapper, I can have perma stealth with proper skill management and the dps of one shot. Honestly haven't found anything close to it besides scoundrel rogue (which is from what I've seen/heard quite overpowered in mod 5)

    I go 1vs3 on back node and can consistently kill the other three, thus enabling a 4vs2 at mid for my team. Against top teams the most I can handle is 1vs2, but if there is a cleric, then I might as well pack my bags in getting any kills on the back node, more or less just doing my job of pulling 2 players away from mid, and with 1 at our home node back capping makes it 2v2 in mid most of the time.

    I just hate going against HR that provides his team with a free dodge, direct counter to my one shot for sure.

    You basically proved the point of this thread. TR is grossly OP and until fixed any success is based solely on a poorly designed OP class. How is this even fun?

    PVP should be a viable option for all classes. Not the current broken and pathetic mess that it currently is.... I frigging cannot get anyone to pvp because it is pointless due to no skill rogues cc and one shotting you or no skill CW doing Something similiar. No one wants to play it. If the devs just toned down rogues and CW more people would enjoy and play pvp.
  • lazyaxus111lazyaxus111 Member Posts: 65
    edited May 2015
    blueberry1973 wrote: »
    You basically proved the point of this thread. TR is grossly OP and until fixed any success is based solely on a poorly designed OP class. How is this even fun?

    PVP should be a viable option for all classes. Not the current broken and pathetic mess that it currently is.... I frigging cannot get anyone to pvp because it is pointless due to no skill rogues cc and one shotting you or no skill CW doing the samething. No one wants to play it. If the devs just toned down rogues and CW more people would enjoy and play pvp.

    I'd trade everything I have vested into my TR for an equally vested HR in a heartbeat if it were possible...
    Aeneas/Einherjar/No Skill
    (Iron Lotus)
    Dragon Born Rouge GS 17.6k in Profound

    Not to be confused with Rogue, I truly am the red makeup women put on their cheeks.
  • blueberry1973blueberry1973 Member Posts: 58
    edited May 2015
    lazyaxus111 wrote: »
    I'd trade everything I have vested into my TR for an equally vested HR in a heartbeat if it were possible...

    That is not the point..... PVP needs some serious adjustments because most people do not enjoy it because they get cc and one shot by a rogue or cc and destroyed by a CW.

    If the devs goal is to alienate the gaming population from doing pvp -> mission accomplished.
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