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Why the Vote Kick is OKAY
jaxcevaal
Member Posts: 63
I had this posted on another thread, but apparently people only read the original post before throwing in their two cents without giving ANY thought to what they are complaining about.
MAJOR issues with the complaints in here. Anyone who disagrees are Probably*** the ones I am talking about. Feel free to comment on any of this specifically and tell me why I'm wrong.
1. Gearscore doesn't mean squat. You shouldn't be in a T2 dungeon wearing half blue or any greens. Should require at least T1 gear.
2. Severely underpowered DPS. Too many players have mixed trash starts using draconics and cheap trash to boost gearscore to BARELY meet dungeon requirements.
3. Fail groups. If you can not complete a dungeon due to a trash group, your lobby should be fair game to take over and replace with a passing group.
4. Free rides. This is a big one. If you die and have near nothing to do with a boss fight, you don't deserve the boss loot. I don't give free rides, I WILL kick freeloaders.
Also players joining MID boss battle who can't get into the fight should be removed as well, mid battle. NO FREE RIDES. Bet you thought you got lucky, but nope. Bye bye.
5. Low defense tanks. You're a tank, your main stat is DEFENSE. A 10k+gs tank should not have under 4K defense. Learn your role.
6. GWF IS NOT A FREAKING TANK.
7. Friends. I should be able to close a lobby to invite only to keep you guys out.
8. Complete lobby takeover. If I can join your lobby and you or your own team mates are quick to kick anyone I start a vote on, the voters should not be whining when they get kicked too. You are ALL guilty of this, don't even deny that. Don't be a hypocrite.
9. Dracolich. Oh god, Dracolich. If your group can't kill it, and we take your lobby, you probably shouldn't be trying to fight it. This is a big one for winning hypocrites. YOU voted your team out, don't cry when you get kicked too. I lose lobbies too, but it's all fair game. I take them as well.
10. Groups. Some groups run loot rules where we make sure everyone in our group or guild gets loot, a split ofthe profits, and the gear we need when it drops. If you think for an instant I'm going to trust some shady random, you're insane. You're getting kicked for MY TEAM. Probably most of you have no idea what to do with Draco and don't even belong there.
11. Terrible players. This is more than just gearscore. Most GWF do not know how to play their class. Most DPS do not have their stats right. I see 15k gs dps with under 4k power. You are getting the boot. You should be above that before 12k gs even. .. use some guides, I know a lot of you think destiny is an mmorpg but a lot of you have no idea how to play an mmorog.
12. People who don't listen. If an experienced cleric and tank say do something, do it. As a DC, I tell you these things to make MY job easier. I'm not chasing 4 people in 5 directions. I'm glad your only job is to attack things, I have to try to keep ago of you alive. Rogues, WAIT. Let the tank take the lead dang it out you're getting DAS BOOT! INSTANTLY!
13. You guys kick anyone who pops in with the same class as you out of greed for loot? When I have two rogues in my lobby and one gets a vote to kick on him, 9x out of 10 its the other rogue being a greedy fool and I kick them instead.
14. People who don't dodge. Example: Fighting a huge Iron Golem who's attacks are slow and predictable, if by 10k GS you can not dodge the attacks when it's the only thing we're fighting, you are an accident waiting to happen. Yeah, lag, cool, sometimes people get hit. I don't mind that. But when you get one shot TWICE because you don't even bother trying to dodge, you are a problem waiting to happen. I know rogues who don't dodge ANYTHING and just stand in red. Here's an idea, if it's red, MOVE. I am not playing with people who don't even try to stay alive.
15. Please stop standing as far away from the boss as you can. I understand that you're a ranged DPS class, but do you understand how difficult it is to come pick you up while trying to keep heals in multiple locations? A Divine Cleric can keep you better alive if you're grouped. Which goes back to point 14. You can dodge ANYTHING. The tank / highest DPS should hold aggro facing away from the rest of the group.
16. Your name is any variation of the name Legolas.
I can give you more reasons we need to be able to kick people than you can give excuses to take that option away from us. This isn't wow and a lot of these console rookies have no idea what they're doing. And obviously no idea why they're getting kicked.
I make a note to tell people why I am kicking them before I do. Be it under geared, under powered, low defense, poor skill use, a bad spec. .. ever see a tank with more power than defense or zero AoE taunt? A cleric that can't heal for poo? DPS that are out damaged by a heal spec cleric? I have. In every single one of your fail groups.
The only rule we need is a 3 strike rule. After 3x getting kicked from a specific lobby, you can no longer join that instance. So you are forced to a different one. This will help prevent people from getting stuck entering and getting kicked from the same lobby over, and over, and over again.
AND matchmaking that gives us heal, tank, 3dps.
MAJOR issues with the complaints in here. Anyone who disagrees are Probably*** the ones I am talking about. Feel free to comment on any of this specifically and tell me why I'm wrong.
1. Gearscore doesn't mean squat. You shouldn't be in a T2 dungeon wearing half blue or any greens. Should require at least T1 gear.
2. Severely underpowered DPS. Too many players have mixed trash starts using draconics and cheap trash to boost gearscore to BARELY meet dungeon requirements.
3. Fail groups. If you can not complete a dungeon due to a trash group, your lobby should be fair game to take over and replace with a passing group.
4. Free rides. This is a big one. If you die and have near nothing to do with a boss fight, you don't deserve the boss loot. I don't give free rides, I WILL kick freeloaders.
Also players joining MID boss battle who can't get into the fight should be removed as well, mid battle. NO FREE RIDES. Bet you thought you got lucky, but nope. Bye bye.
5. Low defense tanks. You're a tank, your main stat is DEFENSE. A 10k+gs tank should not have under 4K defense. Learn your role.
6. GWF IS NOT A FREAKING TANK.
7. Friends. I should be able to close a lobby to invite only to keep you guys out.
8. Complete lobby takeover. If I can join your lobby and you or your own team mates are quick to kick anyone I start a vote on, the voters should not be whining when they get kicked too. You are ALL guilty of this, don't even deny that. Don't be a hypocrite.
9. Dracolich. Oh god, Dracolich. If your group can't kill it, and we take your lobby, you probably shouldn't be trying to fight it. This is a big one for winning hypocrites. YOU voted your team out, don't cry when you get kicked too. I lose lobbies too, but it's all fair game. I take them as well.
10. Groups. Some groups run loot rules where we make sure everyone in our group or guild gets loot, a split ofthe profits, and the gear we need when it drops. If you think for an instant I'm going to trust some shady random, you're insane. You're getting kicked for MY TEAM. Probably most of you have no idea what to do with Draco and don't even belong there.
11. Terrible players. This is more than just gearscore. Most GWF do not know how to play their class. Most DPS do not have their stats right. I see 15k gs dps with under 4k power. You are getting the boot. You should be above that before 12k gs even. .. use some guides, I know a lot of you think destiny is an mmorpg but a lot of you have no idea how to play an mmorog.
12. People who don't listen. If an experienced cleric and tank say do something, do it. As a DC, I tell you these things to make MY job easier. I'm not chasing 4 people in 5 directions. I'm glad your only job is to attack things, I have to try to keep ago of you alive. Rogues, WAIT. Let the tank take the lead dang it out you're getting DAS BOOT! INSTANTLY!
13. You guys kick anyone who pops in with the same class as you out of greed for loot? When I have two rogues in my lobby and one gets a vote to kick on him, 9x out of 10 its the other rogue being a greedy fool and I kick them instead.
14. People who don't dodge. Example: Fighting a huge Iron Golem who's attacks are slow and predictable, if by 10k GS you can not dodge the attacks when it's the only thing we're fighting, you are an accident waiting to happen. Yeah, lag, cool, sometimes people get hit. I don't mind that. But when you get one shot TWICE because you don't even bother trying to dodge, you are a problem waiting to happen. I know rogues who don't dodge ANYTHING and just stand in red. Here's an idea, if it's red, MOVE. I am not playing with people who don't even try to stay alive.
15. Please stop standing as far away from the boss as you can. I understand that you're a ranged DPS class, but do you understand how difficult it is to come pick you up while trying to keep heals in multiple locations? A Divine Cleric can keep you better alive if you're grouped. Which goes back to point 14. You can dodge ANYTHING. The tank / highest DPS should hold aggro facing away from the rest of the group.
16. Your name is any variation of the name Legolas.
I can give you more reasons we need to be able to kick people than you can give excuses to take that option away from us. This isn't wow and a lot of these console rookies have no idea what they're doing. And obviously no idea why they're getting kicked.
I make a note to tell people why I am kicking them before I do. Be it under geared, under powered, low defense, poor skill use, a bad spec. .. ever see a tank with more power than defense or zero AoE taunt? A cleric that can't heal for poo? DPS that are out damaged by a heal spec cleric? I have. In every single one of your fail groups.
The only rule we need is a 3 strike rule. After 3x getting kicked from a specific lobby, you can no longer join that instance. So you are forced to a different one. This will help prevent people from getting stuck entering and getting kicked from the same lobby over, and over, and over again.
AND matchmaking that gives us heal, tank, 3dps.
Post edited by jaxcevaal on
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I agree. But once again, you must earn the loot. I do not just kick people who took part in the boss battle when loot comes around... But I am definitely going to kick anyone who either A. joins in progress, or B. dies almost instantly out of complete incompetence. This goes to the "No Free Rides". If I gotta work for loot, so do you.
Which is WHY we need to allow the kicking from loot rolls.
Today, I had 2 people watch us 3 man Dracolich. We got the Rogue Main Hand drop. And booted them when they RUSHED in to grab the loot! After sitting there and praising us for being such a great group, they thought they were going to take our reward! NO WAY in hell am I going to allow that! And the developers of this game should not either!!!
The only solution to that is to not allow people to join while boss battle is active. Not preventing the kick, but preventing the freeloaders from joining the game.
i agree completely.
1. This is mostly true - but not all the time. Very dependent on class, build and gear synergy. I actually have no problem with these folk getting the boot from T2 dungeons as long as you do it at the start and let them know WHY they are getting the boot. Just a simple, "hey man, this is a Tier 2 area - please run the Tier 1 areas first. Thanks!" is enough to set them on the right path.
If they got all the way to the end boss with that loadout, there's zero reason they shouldn't be able to get through that too.
2. A majority of our crew are using draconics, and frankly (as long as they're leveling them up) those are fine starter enchantments for most classes - and we have zero problems with bulldozing any T2. The enchant type is less relevant than play skill and overall gearing - If the GS is the problem, do as described about and send a message asking them to re-visit the T1s, otherwise get a grip an run the dungeon with them.
3. Feck right off with that mindset. That's some of the worst <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I've read. If there is a group struggling with the final boss, you're free to leave. Don't use that as an excuse for your own bullying.
Frankly, the scrub in that team is you - or anyone who wants to get a cheap boss kill rather than run the dungeon.
4. Again, this is awful. If someone contributed throughout a whole dungeon and then gets boss blitzed, they still contributed. Booting someone joining during the boss battle or who's AFK - fine, I guess. But again, the idea that someone who died "'didn't contribute" is endemic of someone who just wants free-rides to the boss rather than running the whole dungeon properly.
5. Perhaps - if it's a later T2. Early T2s that should be fine. But again, something to raise at the START of dungeon, not the end.
6. Perhaps, but if your cleric is any good at all, he can do the tank's job. If whats requires is drawing ads and kiting, the GWF can do that fine.
(Yep - Cleric player here)
7. Yes and no - I'd love for epics to work like normal dungeons, where you can ride to the dungeon and enter as a group without all the matchmaking rules. That'd be awesome. It would solve a lot of problems.
But it doesn't work like that, and hijacking other people's runs is a jerk move.
8. I laughed at this.. the knowledge that jerk-booters are getting booted pleases me. But the fact that other people are jerks doesn't give you the right to be a jerk too.
Plus, the way voting works, if there is one jerk in the group you join, him and you can ruin the experience for three people who are doing nothing wrong.
9. Same as 8. It's not fair-game, other people's bad behavior does not justify yours.
10. Considering the behavior you're advocating here I find it amusing that you assume that other people are shady. Most folk are happy to abide by loot rules if they're laid out in advance. (Although I personally think assigning arbitrary rules is a sign of a cry-baby attitude from poor loosers or indicative of a guild who doesn't already know how to distribute assets properly).
11. Yes... ish to the concept of terrible players. If that person ignores both voice and text chat, and insists on making life annoying with their playstyle - you're getting booted. But if you respond to chat and work with us, you can stay.
No to your elitist, self-important judgments on gear-score.
12. As per 11 - if they refuse to play ball, yeah.
13. This one's fine, IMHO. Someone trying to kick early is going to be a jerk later too. Nip it in the bud and kick them out ASAP.
I often run with a ranger and rogue, and people are constantly trying to kick both of them, despite the fact the three of us are all in the same guild. I don't care if you're a tank or have a l33t GS - I'd rather have literally anyone else on my team if you're the sort of person who's trying to boot.
14. This is really just 11 again. You should be able to tell this prior to the boss battles - booting someone for this at a boss is poor form.
15. This is just 11 again.
16. See below.
You say that console rookies have no idea what they're doing and obviously no idea why they're getting kicked, and while it's great you're telling them, not everyone does. The situation won't improve until people are educated on what they're doing wrong.
I also disagree about your "heal, tank, 3dps" suggestion. Tanks are nice, but only in PUGs where people are unreliable. If everyone knows what they are doing, 2x TR, 2xSW, 1xDC wipes dungeons fastest. Or heck, even groups with no cleric OR tank can obliterate most dungeons if they know their role (although good luck managing that in a PUG).
Lastly, I think this sums up your complaints:
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
HAhaAHAHaHahaAHAAhaAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHahahAHAHAHAhaHAHAHhahahaha! This is too legit!!!!!! Tear to the eye man! Hahahaha.
Anyways, no man from years and years of playing MMO's in general (since 1998) I have learned that random people are not to be trusted and trust must be earned BEFORE it is given.
I mean, look at trade chat in PE. Everyone is trying to rip someone off, and scammers are around every corner. This, in general, goes for any MMO and has nothing to do with JUST console players.
1. Maybe because the rest of the dungeon is simple, and they are not capable of finishing the final boss???????????? HELLO! WAKE UP man!
6. NO a GWF really can't hold aggro for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. THAT'S the problem.
And as far as I'm concerned, it's not hard to come up with 3! PLAYERS! to have the vote advantage to prevent yourself from getting the boot. There's no excuse for getting kicked. EVERY kick can be prevented if you just find the people to play with. And it doesn't take long to find 3 people who need the gear! Spam in WC or Chasm or Rothe Valley LFG. Join a "community" guild. Make some friends. I get invites from people I have no idea who they are that apparently I have played with in the past just so they don't get booted from their dungeon. Cool, I'll run T2's with anyone. I don't boot just anyone.
I do steal lobbies (Dracolich mainly, but that's self explanatory... Too many people don't belong there, or try kicking my group first.)
And the whole argument on Heal/Tank/3DPS is that we're talking about PUGs here... I don't have this problem as I always run with a tank. Just in case the randy's I'm with aren't that great.
Ever run Temple of the Spider with a group that hasn't enough DPS to either A. Kill the mobs or B. Out DPS the heals? I have. Just about every time I'm in there we try 3 different strategies and the party is incapable of completing.
I always tell players "You need to run T1 dungeons before coming here" if it is a legitimate reason someone should not be there. I don't boot people without probable cause. I'm not going to jump in a dungeon and just throw up random kicks to get the "perfect" group.
5. When I get into a group, and it is the end of the dungeon... It's kind of hard to tell someone they are incapable at the BEGINNING of the dungeon if they already went through the trash mobs to get there. Most dungeons are easy until the final boss. Doesn't mean they should be there. For instance, a 9.5k GS Tank with barely 3K Defense when joining Dracolich should prooobably not be there, but they're already there. They don't know any better, and it's too late to tell them at the start.
I enjoy your condescension, but I'm trying to be a bit more realistic. (reiterating "it's not hard to come up with 3! PLAYERS! to have the vote advantage")
I agree with some of what you say, but they shouldn't drastically alter the vote kick to the point where so many people get free rides from those who are capable of doing something. It's not fair to those who put the time and effort into actually getting the equipment required for certain things (beyond the minimum gearscore requirement joke).
I usually run dungeons with 3 people and carry 2 others through it. I start dungeons with guild/friend who is tank and DPS. If we're talking T2 we usually tell them we'll backpack them if needed.
My ideal solution would be to implement manual queuing/grouping via dungeon entrance (which would suit you and me) as well as implementing more draconian limits on the kick system for PUGs (which should stem the tide of people complaining about being kicked). Sure, those pug groups might struggle with the T2s, but it’s their struggle and they won’t have the lobby stolen by other groups who seem to think they have a God-given right to cut straight to the boss.
As for your example, Temple of the Spider can be a pain – but frankly if you’re running with a tank and a DPS meeting the exacting GS guidelines you’ve set out above, you should be golden regardless of how poorly the other two are setup. I understand in that case your team is doing most of the work, but by booting the others you’re denying them the ability to better themselves.
And I stand by never needing a GF. Most bigger mobs and bosses are burned down before they can offer too much damage, and even in areas like spellplague someone else can kite if they have the skills.
If they aren’t going to add a manual queuing option, there are a few easy things that could improve the experience for everyone without a removal of the kick function.
A. Stop people from joining OR being booted during a boss fight or loot collection.
B. Weight the votes in favour of people who were in the dungeon to start with
C. Limit number of boot initiations per player.
D. After every X number of boots, stop having players join that instance and/or disable the boot function for five minutes.
E. Make the ‘reason’ field mandatory, show the person being booted what that field said. Perhaps even have someone at PW review those reasons to stop ‘yyyyyyyy’ or ‘xxxxxxx’ as reasons.
F. Say who started a vote, along with which way people voted so they can be held accountable.
I run the guild with an strict anti-kicking policy that members are expected to follow, even if they are running solo or in a pug without guildies. The only valid reasons for a Jade Warden to kick are:
* AFK for a long period with no description as to why
* Ignoring requests not to run off without the cleric/tank
* Someone just starting a T2 dungeon with zero T1s.
*Trying to kick anyone for any reason other than the three above.
I expect the whole guild to abide by those rules, and anyone caught abusing the kick function is demoted or asked to leave.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
FeelTheBern
Great ideas. I especially like the weighting. In fact, I'd go so far to say that if you spawned in at the boss, you don't get an option to vote in or initiate a VTK.
I run a Guild, The Brotherhood of the Glorious Sun, with similar rules. We also have a rule that, in general, using knockback attacks is a valid reason to kick... but only if someone is using those attacks and knocking mobs OUT of AoEs after being sufficiently asked/warned not to do it. There are exceptions (communication is key), but there's nothing more aggravating than someone actively working against the CWs trying to CC the mobs, and it makes the whole dungeon run less fun.
As for taking over an instance, not your choice whether they should be at that Dracolich or not, they did the work to get there, let them learn from their mistakes. Go form your own group and run it from the start. Taking over a group at a fight is just being asinine and lazy.
So your rationale for the current kick system is to remove underperforming or poorly geared players. Look man, you might be trash trying to find toons to carry you but the rest of us earn our gear.
oh and... the game needs to give players the option to invite others prior to queing. That way you can get a friend in without kicking 20 dudes.
Here is an idea... The game needs to let you INVITE friends into epic instances without queing. If you want to que for a random that is an option.
Last night, after posting in this thread, three other guildies and I (fighter, Wizard, Ranger, Thief) did a few epics: Specifically, Caverns of Karrundax, Temple of the Spider and The Frozen Heart.
In the first one (caverns) we booted the first random (due to his name referencing female <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> - because f*** anyone that does that), and got another random thief join our crew. We ploughed through that dungeon, burning both the first and second boss down in less than 40 seconds each (my partner captured clips of it on her XBox upload - we were majestic).
Ditto with a random ranger on Frozen Heart.
And again on Temple with another random thief.
I was rolling with my ranger, whereas normally I'm the team cleric, so we were pretty **** nervous going in - but we left all three areas a tattered mess in our wake.
In all three cases, the random was expecting to get kicked, since they were duplicates of classes already in the team - but it didn't slow us down at all.
Looking forward to hitting vault and Castle Never tonight.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
I am a 15k+ GS character who gets kicked on the last boss of CN by highjackers all the **** time. Ive never been the reason for a wipe and some self entitled ignoramous joins and immediately initiates vote spams on everyone constantly. This end game content is laughable easy for MMO veterans. But x1 players are generally not that. in previous MMOs we used to teach and run randoms through it and give them the loot we would of sharded (wow) or gave to twinks /alts(EQ). You know... enrich the experience, not destroy.
Well I gess if you were on one of the opposite factions on EQ SZ server you would feel the (Hate)!
Regardless, when all is said and done, don't go kicking people who ran the dungeon with you when you get to the end then start whining when you get kicked too. The only lobbies I hijack are Draco. The rest is run in 3 man groups with friends from the start. If you're not smart enough to get a group of 3 before entering a dungeon, getting kicked is your own problem. It can be avoided, nobody wants to try to avoid it.
There's my being a bumhole for the day
Some of the end-game community here could give them a run for the money, but lets not pretend that UO wasn't a nightmarish hell in which there was no respite.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
But it was still a heck of a lot of fun. There was a magic about that game that made me keep playing despite it p*^&ing me off non-stop. One bright spot was how player groups rose up to help new/weaker players navigate the world. Stuff like guilds that existed just to escort people through unsafe areas was a pleasant, albeit surprising development. I don't think that would happen on today's internet.
You would kick someone based off of there name?!? On a character that missed 0 shots in 6 movies?!? Your crazy bro. Crazy.
No but seriously, this post is a brief gist of the reason endgame is stagnant. Alot of people feel this way.
My view is if your so good to write up this high and mighty list....you KNOW that the queue system NEEDS 1 tank 1 healer 3 dos....of this is all common knowledge to you. Then why are you in pugs anyway. If your so elite. Go join a clan with other elitists....go create one and let noone named legolas join.
Just becasue you feel PuGs ruin your experience, that doesn't mean you should ruin theirs because you THINK you know what your doing/saying.
Its easy to trash talk people and the VTK system when you roll a cleric and don't have those issues. Stop making the problems greater and just get along with your fellow gamer. If you feel that randoms are not your cup of tea, maybe you shouldn't play with them. Instead of 3 manning dungeons, why not grab two more friends (I think two more people play the game that are not named legolas), if you have them, and just 5 man dungeons with your god gifted knowledge of what 5 classes should be in the dungeon n leave the pugs be. Would solve two issues.
1.) You wouldn't have to deal with randoms who you would most likely kick anyway.
2.) Randoms wouldn't have the headache of dealing with the uber elites.
Seriously if playing in PuGs bothers you, its your fault. The casual players shouldn't have to cater to you.
Sincerely,
Hater of haters and ****** bag selfish players
Do not ever loot while enemies are up.period. Especially if I see you doing this near the group, I will tell everyone what I just saw, and if I see it again you will get a vtk until you're gone. If you don't like it go to one of the drags and wipe out the adds for 19 minutes (or however long the return time is) and when the drag shows up keep killing adds. You're going to get twice the loot in half the time. Which means about 40 silver, that way you're waste of time isn't my nuisance.
That being said, I have a few ideas to fix this problem.
1. Smaller pop-ups. I know what the buttons are, and the image is sufficient for those that know what they want.
2. No results window. If I'm passing on anything I don't care who won, and when I don't I can read the chat window.
Something I have learned, if you click on someone's name there is an option to view all posts by that user. Alot of times you can find a post where they have posted their GT in the forums. Was pretty easy to locate his.
Im glad you take d and d seriously, really motivating me to buy witcher three
This is my first mmo. I have learned un told improvements on this forum, and if it wasnt for the type of players that take the time to actually help, i would be,messing up your dungeon forever.
You teach me, i teach others, less people you have to kick.
I understand it's there for ppl that go AFK, or disconnect or whatever, but let's face it.. with morons like the OP of this thread, it will always be abused. The pro's for getting rid of it far outway the pro's for keeping it, it's as simple as that.
Look at it this way, without the vote to kick everyone can play comfortably knowing they havn't got to worry about putting time and effort into a long dungeon, just to get kicked at the end.
Reach the boss and keep dying? Tough, keep trying until you do it. It will force people to get better, it will force people to play as a team, it will force people to not give up the first time things look slightly too hard for them. More importantly, it will STOP people kicking 1 of their team mates that have been with them since the start of the dungeon.
At the end of the day, it's not costing you anything to enter these dungeons, so you're losing nothing other than a bit of time spent if you find out you can't do it. At least next time you enter you'll have learned a lesson and you'll go in better equipped.
It's certainly better than dying once at the last boss, and just kicking someone that's been in the dungeon with you from the start. Let's face it, it happens all the time to people. Why do they deserve to be there any less than you?
Get rid of it.. make people play together, make people learn and conquer as a team and let's get some team spirit into this community, instead of the poison that is in the community right now.
If a player meets the requirements to enter the dungeon, then they are allowed to be there.
End of story
I like how many of the people flaming in here are the ones also kicking people. Obviously, according to everyone's standards of complaining, nobody should kick anybody. None of you can claim you don't kick people or your party wouldn't be available for theft. It's a standard case of the pot calling the kettle black. Hypocrisy at its finest.
Alright guys. Remove the vote kick and or allow it only one every 5 minutes so people can complain about bad players and party wipes instead. Problem solved.
Or you can just queue as a 3 man group and avoid the situation entirely like our guild and friends do. But not to worry, that's only a suggestion. Then if you get kicked, you're obviously not reading names and are at fault for being quick to kick.