Most important Stats?

lordoadumbrate

So with Mod 5 we gained the ability to critical strike 100% of the time from stealth, in mod 6 we now have access to 10 additional paragon points, meaning that all Master infiltrators can get to the Sneaky Stabber feat, which allows Rouges to almost permastealth.

With that being said, are there any stats that are now more important than Dex? I know STR is a given due to it being our damage dealing stat, while INT would be useful due to the recharge reduction it gives. I would like to get feedback due to not having an idea about which belt to get (never could get enough gear score & took a break for a while due to horrendous internet), as well as help future Rouges make the right choice in what Stats to preface.

What are your guys thoughts? What Stats do you think are now the two most important stats for Rouges. Please keep in mind that this could be both for PvP and PvE, but if I am mostly looking for PvE...IF you are going to suggest stats for PvP, please preface before hand.

Thank You in advance!

Edit 1:
(IF YOU VOTE, PLEASE LEAVE A REASON AS TO WHY YOU VOTED THE WAY YOU DID...IT CAN BE AS SIMPLE AS, "I LIKE DEX, SO I CHOSE DEX")

Edit 2:
Thank you to quspiv for reminding me that there are two paragon paths...*faceplam at my own stupidity* Anyways, with that being factored in, please make sure to leave what paragon you are in your post so that we can understand your choice.

dewwhiskers

So my vote was for strength and dexterity being the 2 most important and the second most important 2 would be intelligence and charisma. Try to put as many points into strength and dexterity as you can, those seem to be the best. After that, if you have leftover points, stick a few into intelligence(if you would like more recharge speed and more action points) or into charisma(if you want more combat advantage damage).

jumboyet

Why would a rogue put any points into DEX? They have 100% crit from stealth..

mirlegris

jumboyet wrote: »

Why would a rogue put any points into DEX? They have 100% crit from stealth..

All TRs don't play permastealth-like style, but are geared with vorpal and use severity crit items/pets/potions/boons/feats. If you don't play permastealth-like style, you need a decent Crit% out of stealth.

And Dex give also Deflection.

I voted Strenght and Dexterity. Intelligence in 3rd. High Charisma is efficient for stealth builds. Don't need constitution with big hp pool from stuff lvl 70.

lordoadumbrate

But is what you get from putting points in worth the points? Most of the epic gear items we can obtain give at least 1k points worth of critical strike and probably many rogues are not going to be relying on doing crits while out of stealth...

The deflection points are maybe worthwhile but is it actually worthwhile to stack deflection? Rogues are naturally squishy and with this new mode, the new rogue play-style seems to rely on, to borrow a phrase from Super Smash Bros, "Don't get hit." Getting hit in the higher tier areas pretty much will instant kill most rogues.

s1lv3rdrgnforum

The argument about Dex is valid. The problem for rogues is, Stealth is SO powerful a tool for us, but the dev's have made it so it's very difficult to use consistently. Some Rogues then, go for a "non-stealth-dependance" build and thus they would want high crit. Is this a good idea? IMO, no. However, to each his own. I personally try to maximize my ability to do damage from stealth and ticked Str/Cha as my primary stats for my build. Int to a lesser degree, as you want at least 16-18 points in it for decent recharge times. Unfortunately, since they changed this mechanic since I created my character, I'm stuck with far more dex than i want. What irks me even more, is that in most games a rogue gets his damage from Dex or Int.

thefabricant

s1lv3rdrgnforum wrote: »

The argument about Dex is valid. The problem for rogues is, Stealth is SO powerful a tool for us, but the dev's have made it so it's very difficult to use consistently. Some Rogues then, go for a "non-stealth-dependance" build and thus they would want high crit. Is this a good idea? IMO, no. However, to each his own. I personally try to maximize my ability to do damage from stealth and ticked Str/Cha as my primary stats for my build. Int to a lesser degree, as you want at least 16-18 points in it for decent recharge times. Unfortunately, since they changed this mechanic since I created my character, I'm stuck with far more dex than i want. What irks me even more, is that in most games a rogue gets his damage from Dex or Int.

There is an interesting bug I have noticed on tr, where when some abilities activate and proc one with the shadows, if you were in stealth they immediately reset your stealth timer and you remain in stealth. For example, if you are in stealth and one with the shadows is available, instead of activating shadow strike to reset stealth you could activate blitz. You would remain in stealth and your stealth meter would reset because of the sab capstone. However, if instead of blitz you use smoke bomb it would reset the stealth meter but you would be taken out of stealth, having to quickly press tab. This effectively allows sab to have 2 shadow strikes to reset stealth and I have no idea why some abilities unstealth you when used with sab capstone but others don't.

mirlegris

lordoadumbrate wrote: »

The deflection points are maybe worthwhile but is it actually worthwhile to stack deflection? Rogues are naturally squishy and with this new mode, the new rogue play-style seems to rely on, to borrow a phrase from Super Smash Bros, "Don't get hit." Getting hit in the higher tier areas pretty much will instant kill most rogues.

It's a point of view. I use stealth for first strike, then, the rest of my rotation, i am out of stealth and my survivability come from my controls and my dodges. I don't stack a lot of crit and deflection, just a decent % ( 33% for this 2 stats it's a minima for me so, without ability score, talents and passive feature need a lot..). Cause of new curves of stats at level 70 ( 400 pts for 1% ), the more crit and deflection from Ability Score i have, better I feel, and less heroic and parangonic feats points I would have had to spend in those two aspects. Same for Int, who is a lot more efficient for recharge time than Recovery now..

It's not the better way for playing a TR, but it's mine, and it works for me.

overdriver13

lordoadumbrate wrote: »

But is what you get from putting points in worth the points? Most of the epic gear items we can obtain give at least 1k points worth of critical strike and probably many rogues are not going to be relying on doing crits while out of stealth...

The deflection points are maybe worthwhile but is it actually worthwhile to stack deflection? Rogues are naturally squishy and with this new mode, the new rogue play-style seems to rely on, to borrow a phrase from Super Smash Bros, "Don't get hit." Getting hit in the higher tier areas pretty much will instant kill most rogues.

Deflection and tenacity are about the only defense stats I try to stack at all. That said, I don't prioritize dex. Ya, "don't get hit", but between itc, stealth, and having four or five enemy players gunning for you, high deflection goes a long way imo.

quspiv

WK will burn stealth very quickly and that's the only build where i would go DEX + Char (or int) over STR + w/e.

lordoadumbrate

I need to respec since I accidently put my stat points into DEX when I really didn't need to...Anyways, when i do respec, I am going to put points into STR and maybe a mix between INT and CHA...At the moment I have 17.8% of my recharge coming from items, so if I put some points into INT, I can change some runes for Power and also put some points into CHA.

s1lv3rdrgnforum

Glad someone benefited from this discussion. I wish more threads here actually helped people instead of just bashing the class

karakla1

I know this whole discussion and poll is about attributes i wanted to add an question: Does someone know how the new stat curve runs or has an cheat sheet like the old stat curve and which stats are needed for an TR (more PvE, less PvP). I would appreciate that kind of information.

blazious11

Everything is 400:1% - So every 400 stat points gives you one percent of the stat - 400 critical strike gives 1% crit chance, 400 def gives 1% damage resistance etc.
Only exception is Armorpenetration, 100 arp gives you 1% resistance ignore - It has some soft cap around 6000 arp I guess. Mobs have 40% damage resist, bosses around 60%, if what I read is true. I did not tested it myself. So the minimum is 4000 arp - since TR has no innate abilite for resistance ignored - but my aim would be around 6000 arp. That's achieavable with basic t1 gear, arp rings, artifacts etc.
Another exception is recovery - 200 recovery gives you 1% recharge speed increase. Reco wasnt an issue due to knife's Edge bug, which resetted your encounters. (please note, that I only used that for pve, no pvp cheating) Now, with that's gone some recovery, or even higher Intelligence is quite welcome for TR.
For stats, Its hard to say which is the best. Critical is less important maybe, due to stealth autocrit. I still like it, because you are still out of stealth sometime. I wouldnt go under 35-40% crit chance, but others may disagree with that. Power is simple, the more the better. I'm still trying to manage the recovery needed.
As for defense, you get a decent deflect from dex and cha. I wouldnt bother with defense stat, go for HP. Anyway, I do not have an issue with survive in pve, dodges are seems to be infinite, as a TR, you skills and reflexes save you, not the stats. I have no agro, I usually die the last from the party, or only if I screw up sth.
Combat advantage 800-1000 points, other secondary use the old curves, after 1000 points they have a harsh diminishing return.

mirlegris

Yeah, except Arp, Recovery and tenacity, all basic stats curves ( stats from gear ),at level 70, are the same : 400 Pts for 1%.

For Arp is 100pts for 1% but Arp curve have a diminishing return : 5000 Arp give not 50% Resistance Ignored, but 45-46%.

lordoadumbrate

So is the general consensus that for WKs, the most important stats are DEX and CHA, while for MIs it STR and some other stat?

Also, what do you guys think is the most reasonable amount of Crit, Recovery, defense, and deflection a WK or MI should cap at? I mean we can try and shoot for the 4000+ points in each but lets be honest, most are not going to be able to get to that in a short period of time. So with that, what do you think we should try and cap our stats at? Make sure to take both points of views into account.

karakla1

Thank you very much

mirlegris

For Crit, depend of your build. If you are a max-stealth TR, you don't need a lot ( cause 100% crit in stealth ). If you are a combat TR ( less of 50% of time in stealth ) you need a decent % of crit out of stealth.

Minimum Crit% for me is 33%, decent % is 40% for combat TR. Same for Deflection ( it's hard to reach 40%, DEX is important to stay close to this % ).

Just my opinion.

trgluestickz

I posted here earlier under the name dew whiskers.

I have changed my mind since I voted on the important stats here. I've since done a lot more research into what each stat gives me and have decided I no longer think dex is really that important. I actually have started an experimental rogue that stacks strength, charisma, and wisdom since that post. I'm hoping the wisdom combined with certain artifacts will make my dazes last longer and make it harder for others to keep me cc'd. I did not stack intelligence but my intelligence is high enough that it does not suck. Dex while not being stacked will still end up hitting 20 by the time my build is complete, counting artifact gear. I did not take an ability score set with any 18s because those 18s usually suck points out of strength and charisma. I actually am a non permastealth rogue executioner MI and find that I really don't need crit strike while out of stealth that much. I do not stack crit strike deliberately but since it often comes with gear, I always end up with a little bit. I do of course stack crit severity really heavily. As for deflection, I prefer to stack it over crit strike when it comes to things like boons. With all the armor pen people have now I see no reason to stack defense deliberately but I always end up with a little bit. My build is intended for pvp though it seems like it should be viable in pve as well, especially with the extended daze.

overdriver13

trgluestickz wrote: »

I posted here earlier under the name dew whiskers.

I have changed my mind since I voted on the important stats here. I've since done a lot more research into what each stat gives me and have decided I no longer think dex is really that important. I actually have started an experimental rogue that stacks strength, charisma, and wisdom since that post. I'm hoping the wisdom combined with certain artifacts will make my dazes last longer and make it harder for others to keep me cc'd. I did not stack intelligence but my intelligence is high enough that it does not suck. Dex while not being stacked will still end up hitting 20 by the time my build is complete, counting artifact gear. I did not take an ability score set with any 18s because those 18s usually suck points out of strength and charisma. I actually am a non permastealth rogue executioner MI and find that I really don't need crit strike while out of stealth that much. I do not stack crit strike deliberately but since it often comes with gear, I always end up with a little bit. I do of course stack crit severity really heavily. As for deflection, I prefer to stack it over crit strike when it comes to things like boons. With all the armor pen people have now I see no reason to stack defense deliberately but I always end up with a little bit. My build is intended for pvp though it seems like it should be viable in pve as well, especially with the extended daze.

This. Things for people to consider, some of which you pointed out, is that even non-permastealth = a ton of stealth. Even not stacking crit= a lot of crit. Same is true for some other stats. I stack arpen, power, deflection, and as you said crit severity. Without making dex a priority at all. Dex kind of happens on its own while stacking str, if you are geared right. For example, imo the bis belt is the lostmauth belt. You are getting dex out of that if you want it or not.

I play MI Exec and it seems somehow with all the changes, MI Exe ends up with an awesome combination of stealth (+ all the benefits that come with it), dazes, damage. ITC on top of it is just added awesomeness.

I stack deflect and tenacity over everything else because, like I said, you get everything else anyways whether or not you want it. Also, through sheer game mechanics, things like cc and cc resistance (itc) are simply just there for you. To me it is a matter of surviving and wearing the enemy down rather than one shotting him. Really high deflect keeps you alive when you are target locked in stealth, out of dodges, or gang jumped by an entire enemy team at the same time. My opinion anyways.

trgluestickz

Also, I need help with something, I know this is off topic but I keep seeing people whos posts have their characters listed below a white line for all posts. I assume this is a signature but I can't figure out how to make my own signature. I'd like to be able to list my active characters at the bottom of my posts.

izwor

For me CHA and DEX, why?
Because of deflection and combat advantage.
First one is important to survive, with ~45% deflect chance it's much easier, especialy, that rogues have 75% reflect severity.
Combat advatage is almost as good as damage bonus.
There are many ways to get combat advantage, go behind target, hitting marked target (need gf or gwf in party) or just being in stealth.
Companion bonus from charisma is nice extra (if it works at all).

s1lv3rdrgnforum

izwor wrote: »

For me CHA and DEX, why?
Because of deflection and combat advantage.
First one is important to survive, with ~45% deflect chance it's much easier, especialy, that rogues have 75% reflect severity.
Combat advatage is almost as good as damage bonus.
There are many ways to get combat advantage, go behind target, hitting marked target (need gf or gwf in party) or just being in stealth.
Companion bonus from charisma is nice extra (if it works at all).

Just to point out, Deflection is not for everyone. Some very intelligent people have done intensive testing on Mod 6 stats and have concluded that HP trumps all defense by a fair margin. Until you have 180k of it, keep stacking. On the flip side of the coin, if you are HEAVILY invested in deflection; ie Halfling, feats, scoundrel, etc.. then maybe it's not as great as HP but still worth something.

Cheers