New Elemental Evil Zones are too painfully SLOW

angrysprite

Even though this is something the Devs *need* to badly hear about, I am ~not~ directly addressing the Devs as that is against forum rules, so I hope it is understood this is thread is intended as a community discussion regarding the scenario. ~cough~

I've almost leveled a Devotion Paladin to 70. Currently at 68. For. Ever. Even with double-XP event rolling.

1) I like the tankiness of the class, and find the pathetic damage output an acceptable trade-off.
2) I like the challenge of the new mobs, etc. Crazy damage and HP and all of it.
3) Though pathetic damage output + crazy amounts of mob HP = really, really slow progress.

And I'm generally okay with all of it.

I even appreciate (and thoroughly enjoy) the reuse of existing zones such as Drowned Shore/Black Dagger Ruins and Reclamation Rock/Helm's Hold and so on. I really do. I can even forgive (barely) the crazy grinding of random "kill this then kill that" umpteen times without any kind of story or even motivation behind it. At least in Sharandar and Dread Ring there were stories attached, but even without it's still -almost- okay. Until my mind literally goes numb. Yes, literally.

Mind-numbing occurs when I have to kill 2,500 individual NPC mobs, per zone.

"16 Vigilance" is the initial zone task. One "vigilance" task may include something like "Kill 30 Lizardman". Okay, I can do that. I spot a group of 4 standing around; I attack, I complete that group in 20 seconds (because they hit hard, have high HP and I have almost no damage output - but that's okay. One down, 29 more to go.) So that's ½ to ¾ an hour.

And after I achieve that 16 vigilance I go to the next area and... "achieve 16 vigilance." Are you farking serious? And that's in zone one of four. I know: people say you can skip the first three Elemental zones and go straight to Spinward Rise or whatever. But I don't want to skip those zones. I actually enjoy the artwork, the atmosphere, and exploring around.

I'm enjoying my (always-wanted) class and the hard-hitting mobs are great, a nice challenge. Combat "balance" (PvE wise) feels pretty darned good to me at this point But it's just taking way to farking long. I've been at level 67/68 after playing all day yesterday (about 6 hours worth) - which I rarely do. I often prefer only a few (3 or 4) hours on Saturday and again on Sunday - no actual playtime on weekdays).

WHAT IF: Instead of 16 Vigilance each quest required only 6 or 8 vigilance before moving on? This is something I can do without utterly hating the time it's taking, making me mind-numbed from playing the exact same activity over and over and over and over again and again and again and again...

It would be great if I could just shout that out DIRECTLY TO THE DEVS, but that's not allowed. So this is a community discussion about the situation. Which part of this scenario do you hate more: the damage your class is outputting, the high HP the mobs have/time it takes to complete one zone-minion-mob, or the sheer ridiculous number of "Vigilance" needed to move from one main contact to the next?

Just asking.

EDIT: I also just thought of something: I know it appears that I'm ranting about XP gain and leveling up. No, that's not it. I'm ranting about how long it is taking to move through the these zones. I don't care if it takes me until September to go from level 68 to 70 - as long as I can have some fun scenery along the way. Elemental Evil zones make me feel like I'm stuck in mud.

TL;DR: Progressing forward through the zone itself at a decent rate is the issue for me, not the amount of XP I am earning or how fast.

mehguy138

First I thought that if it required 8 quests instead of 16, it would be acceptable. 2 days ago, I bought mulhorand weapons for my GWF and decided to level him while it's double exp. I didn't finish even the first 4 quests in the drowned, I just logged out because it's so freaking boring. I leveled 14 toons through questing and PvP up to 60, but I'm not gonna level more then one up to 70 through this vigilant hell ever again. Even if it was 10x exp.

mifiisu

Due to RL responsibilities I have taken mod 6 extremely slow and ultra-casual. I'm sitting in helms cathedral at lvl 66 currently (1 level of that was achieved via gateway leadership). The good part is that I don't have time to get mad at the grindiness of the game since I don't grind - I explore, look for skill nodes and do the occasional vigilance killing-spree (i try and combine the gather this kill that quests that are related). The only thing that requires some deep breaths every now and then is the combat perma-lag

thewolfisloose

Yeah this needed to be called out. EE is another zoo where you can fight the animals. Nothing really happening outside of HE's (which have been a good addition since IWD...but they're scheduled and predictable.) Fiery Pit was so dry. If only that area was like an all out war and you can fight you're way up for XP until you die and start over. I don't know something crazy. Anything besides knowing exactly what's gonna happen.

@OP what's your Paladin spec? I find even with a Justice Tankadin it's slow. Tho I don't even have a lesser plaguefire on her. I guess I can settle with that in return for the near-invincibility. Templar's Wrath is bonkers.

angrysprite

mifiisu wrote: »

Due to RL responsibilities I have taken mod 6 extremely slow and ultra-casual. I'm sitting in helms cathedral at lvl 66 currently (1 level of that was achieved via gateway leadership). The good part is that I don't have time to get mad at the grindiness of the game since I don't grind - I explore, look for skill nodes and do the occasional vigilance killing-spree (i try and combine the gather this kill that quests that are related). The only thing that requires some deep breaths every now and then is the combat perma-lag

I agree completely and this is how I generally spend my game-time. BUT, this is the class I always wanted since Alpha days. I am *so* *close* to CAP. I am level 68 and within INCHES of 69!!!11!!ONE!!11 -
do you not GET IT!!!!

LOL Hahahah.

thewolfisloose wrote: »

Yeah this needed to be called out. EE is another zoo where you can fight the animals. Nothing really happening outside of HE's (which have been a good addition since IWD...but they're scheduled and predictable.) Fiery Pit was so dry. If only that area was like an all out war and you can fight you're way up for XP until you die and start over. I don't know something crazy. Anything besides knowing exactly what's gonna happen.

@OP what's your Paladin spec? I find even with a Justice Tankadin it's slow. Tho I don't even have a lesser plaguefire on her. I guess I can settle with that in return for the near-invincibility. Templar's Wrath is bonkers.

I am Devotion tree with almost entirely Light branch. I have the Holy Knight Mace (which levels with you up to 70), all Gold or Dark enchantments for HP/ArmPen and whatnot. The damage, as "pathetic" as it apparently is (general term, not one I'd use) still feels pretty good. I still feel pretty strong and mobs just feel stronger (rather than my feeling weak against barely stronger mobs) - I'd say the combat experience for me is excellent right now (except when I accidentally end-up in a Heroic Encounter with only myself and a wizard (!)) LOL.

I don;t even mind how long it takes to whack a minion mob with two low-level and two medium-level and one high-level NPC. It takes much longer than any of my other classes (I have them all) - and I'm okay with THAT, too.

But 16 Vigilance. SIX-FEKING-TEEN. LOL No, no, no... I see that and it gives me the strongest urge to decline and skip the entire zone. Seriously. But I want to explore and experience. I don;t care what anyone says about the "recycling" of zones etc. A lot of great artists and hard-working people put in a strong effort and worked for months to recreate these zones, redress them, change-up the atmosphere and all the rest. I want to experience that for myself. So they know that their hard work isn't so easily dismissed with disdain by less-vocal players like myself.

But six-farking-teen Vigilants.

Z.O.M.G.

I also want to make it clear: I'm not ranting. I'm not complaining (or intending to). I'm just hoping the 'powers that be' will see my plight and understand it's simply intended as: I love this game, except for thissssssssssss!

mifiisu

I do undestand y ur hurtin and I imagine that once I'll get some time to put my feet up and dedicate an entire weekend to finish leveling I'll probably want to stick my eyes out after seeing the same vigilance quest pattern over and over and over again. I've already warned my cats that there will be excessive stress-related petting due to Mod 6 frustration which has yet to hit me with full power

angrysprite

magenubbie wrote: »

I don't mean this in a bad way and I hope you don't take it as such, but isn't this the fate tanks always suffer in MMOs? They are slow killers, plain and simple. Where a DPS class does those 16 quests in 2 hours, you simply need more time.

That said, the grind does get on your nerves and it's my biggest issue with this rework (I still refuse to call this a mod). The constant repeating quests -and the required waiting period to retake the same quests- make leveling feel like working instead of playing and it completely takes the fun out of the game and the leveling process as well. It's not just the tank classes that feel that way. It's the same for DPS classes, even if they complete quests faster. They suffer from the same annoying cooldown on the quests.
My road to 70 can be summed up like this:
1. Enter new area.
2. Take 4 quests you like.
3. Finish said quests in far less time it takes for them to cool down.
3A Interrupt your questing to invoke on your alts.
3B If you're not numb already take some other quests to pass the time. If you are, go to 4.
4. log out. wait for the cooldown to pass on the quests. Perhaps renew your invokes on alts if applicable or perhaps send companions away to train.
5. Rinse and repeat.

Effectively I've played only half the playtime I had for a single day.

Not taken in a negative way. And you're correct (and I fully embrace the truckloads of tank, pea-shooter power routine). My frustration isn't all that stuff. My question is this: if Vigilance tasks are kill-this-then-kill-that why must there be 16 of them before that sub-zone is completed? Why 16? Why not 8 or even 10; why must it be 16? 8 or 10 could still be painful, but not have a 'hopeless' feel to it. You can see the light at the end of "10" tunnel. But a "16" tunnel is a lot longer and darker. This is my point.

As for my mental deviation: I do invoke and all that. I don't dare take any of my 14 existing level 60's into IWD, DR, or Sharandar (got caught in DR only one daily from my final boon; spectacular result). That would just anger me and I don't want that; I also don't want to just repeat "Vigilance" with them, either. LOL

Oh, and I can't do the in-n-out-n-in thing. I log-in, stay a while, then change-characters for each invoking. Then I'm out and when I log out I have a personal rule: never log back in sooner than eight hours at least.

I am of the very firm belief that people who are in-and-out of their games repeatedly may have a genuine addiction, which is a neural-medical problem (I'm dealing with a 10 year old grandson who has such a technology addiction like this right now: iPad then iPhone, then PC, then iPad - I won't go into details but it is not pretty. It's damaging in a really serious way). But that's me.

So I'm leveling my second Paladin as a Protection tree this time. But still: why the dark must it be "16"? LOL

mifiisu wrote: »

I do undestand y ur hurtin and I imagine that once I'll get some time to put my feet up and dedicate an entire weekend to finish leveling I'll probably want to stick my eyes out after seeing the same vigilance quest pattern over and over and over again. I've already warned my cats that there will be excessive stress-related petting due to Mod 6 frustration which has yet to hit me with full power

I agree. It's one thing to demand it of a player's first character. But what about my 14 other toons? This is part of what people mean when they say Mod 6 is not only "not alt-friendly" but perhaps even outright "alt-hostile"?

vasdamas

I've done all zones, all 16+ quests in all zones. Hoped to see something interesting that could be obtained via campaign quests only like etheral cloak from 55-60 lvl quests in WC. Was wrong
I did like how Vanifer hit me for 220k with fireball though, was about to fall asleep doing Fiery Pit. Spinward was smooth though, if only there was no lag at that moment.....

cheesegromit

I agree on the tedious nature of progressing through the EE content. I personally don't mind the 16 vigilance tasks, it's the combination of that many tasks and the fact that most can take a while to complete. Pick one, 16 quickish tasks or a smaller number of lengthy tasks.

I'm not too fused at this point though because I realise I was guilty of playing the new content primarily for the reward - artifact main hand. I've solved that another way.

I skipped Drowned Shores since I'd played that on preview, did the minimum in Reclamation Rock and Fiery Pit to get access to Spinward Rise and completed 26 vigilant tasks. At that point I caved and purchased the required materials to craft the artifact mainhand via the ToD campaign task. I did the same for 5 additional characters. That leaves 2 characters that I need to do ToD with.

In theory I can now play through the EE content at my leisure, if I want and it doesn't matter how long it takes. I'll see if that works in practice.

mjytresz

Personally, I find the progressions through levels to match up pretty well with the intended levels of the zones. I made a Paladin and hit 62 before going to Drowning Shore. Currently lvl 65 in Reclamation Rock and I didn't even finish Drowning Shore.
The problem is the content, as many have said above. It's painfully, mind numbingly boring.

Go here, kill that, finish this instance, turn in quests, repeat 4x16 times.
****ing hate questing.

bioshrike

The limitation of only being able to have 4 vigilance quests is enough. The quests should only require defeating, say, 12-16 enemies, not 30+. The "Complete 16 vigilance quests" should only be "Complete 4 vigilance quests". The quests should grant enough XP that you are ready to graduate to the next zone after doing the 3 or so sections of each zone, after doing 4 vigilance quests in each. So what if it takes less time to get to 70? These zones are recycled content for the most part, so forcing us to stick around those areas by limiting the XP isn't really helping anything.

I gt to 60 on OP before completing the Drow section of the Underdark. I opted to go straight into the Elemental Evil content at that point. If I had instead finished the Underdark stuff, I could have easily gotten to 63 or maybe even 64, and those are much more interesting and diverse quests.

My question is what is the intended goal of making the progress from 61-70 feel so slow and repetitive?

nwoun1

magenubbie wrote: »

The constant repeating quests -and the required waiting period to retake the same quests- make leveling feel like working instead of playing and it completely takes the fun out of the game.

It's strange they enforced such a waiting period on players once again after Mod 4 and the dragon HEs were such a disaster.

I remember in Mod 2 I would just accumulate the daily quests on my characters and circle around Dread Ring to complete them all once per week or so. That was not the most efficient way to do it, because some quests were handed out more than once per week, but that way all I had to do to progress with all characters next to gathering the quests was playing one char per day for one hour (+/-). It was great. Mod 3 was similar but since the Reghed Barbarian Relic got cheap rather fast, I only completed Safe Keeping/Needless Distractions on all characters every day and bought the rest of the currency.

In Mod 4, you were forced to wait for a Dragon on every single char every day to progress (that's gotten slightly better now that Common Cause doesn't include the Dragon quest any longer)
Mod 5 was better, but quests were random each day so you weren't guaranteed to get a full set of quests each week. Because my ALT farm had grown, I only did one rotation every two weeks on each char, but even that didn't mean all quests would show up. Now WoD is a no-go anyway unless properly geared.
And now Mod 6, you have hourly quests from which you may only have four at any given time. So we've gone from being able to accumulate quests every week over maybe being able to accumulate quests every week to not being able to accumulate any quests and safe time.

Not really sure what the grand picture is, but they definitely don't want players to be able to manage a lot of ALTs simultaneously.

nwoun1

One should also note that the heavy grind of the new zones is disproportionate to the speed you are able to level up with Leadership and invoking. My ALTs are about to hit 68-69 tomorrow without doing any Vigilance Quests.

I most definitely will only do the zones one more time with my Paladin, because he needs the Elemental Fire Weapon through completing Spinward Rise, and when he's ready, any other character will be 70 anyway.

fastrean3

cheesegromit wrote: »

I agree on the tedious nature of progressing through the EE content. I personally don't mind the 16 vigilance tasks, it's the combination of that many tasks and the fact that most can take a while to complete. Pick one, 16 quickish tasks or a smaller number of lengthy tasks.

I'm not too fused at this point though because I realise I was guilty of playing the new content primarily for the reward - artifact main hand. I've solved that another way.

I skipped Drowned Shores since I'd played that on preview, did the minimum in Reclamation Rock and Fiery Pit to get access to Spinward Rise and completed 26 vigilant tasks. At that point I caved and purchased the required materials to craft the artifact mainhand via the ToD campaign task. I did the same for 5 additional characters. That leaves 2 characters that I need to do ToD with.

In theory I can now play through the EE content at my leisure, if I want and it doesn't matter how long it takes. I'll see if that works in practice.

The artifact mainhand crafted from the TOD campaign task is different to the one reward for complete the quests sprinwind rise, look at the stats carefully. I crafted the 70 mainhand for my tr and cw, but if you review on ctrl +j, they looks like weaker than the quest reward one.

rollingonit

I log in nowadays, invoke, think maybe Ill go level a bit. Then I think about the quests, and I log out.

Went from maybe 15 hours a week at least playing to maybe 20 minutes a week.

mirrorballs

Since EE launched, I arrived at level 70 last Saturday, playing maybe an hour or two everyday, with a bit longer sessions during the weekends. That's two and a half weeks for the final 10 levels.

I don't see anything unreasonable or slow.

Boring? Absolutely. Just brainless repetitions of fetch quests and kill quests non-stop. But is the leveling process too long? I don't think so.

thewolfisloose

vasdamas wrote: »

I did like how Vanifer hit me for 220k with fireball though, was about to fall asleep doing Fiery Pit.

Vanifer was fun. She was tanky, hit hard and had some nice moves. The Earth and Water prophets were unremarkable pushovers in combat and I didn't even see the Air prophet. There's no imposing / exciting threat in this mod. And, I know this is a WoW reference, but Mod6 doesn't have a Deathwing. It should have had one. Tia in Mod5 was cool the first time. But she was so easy to get, so available to get wrecked every hour, and does this thing where she is stuck in a hole all the time.

cheesegromit

fastrean3 wrote: »

The artifact mainhand crafted from the TOD campaign task is different to the one reward for complete the quests sprinwind rise, look at the stats carefully. I crafted the 70 mainhand for my tr and cw, but if you review on ctrl +j, they looks like weaker than the quest reward one.

Interesting, thank you. I'll look into it.

Edit: The L70 artifact weapon I have in my collections says it's obtained from Spinward Rise and there there no other. I'll have to wait and see what I get as a reward when I do eventually complete Spinward Rise, perhaps this weekend.

salna

New leveling zones as need kill allot of mobs is very easy and fast for clases who got good CC and good aoe damage.
As dps cleric i was waiting to get new tasks from ncp. As was finishing them to fast. Yes leveling process is boring but it was so fast took me ~48h to get 70 (i don't remember precise leveling time but was super fast) .

twilightwatchman

XP from the Whispering Caverns is still better all the way up to L64 at least. Of course you miss out on gear drops so I wouldn't recommend skipping too much of the EE content that way. A combination of the Vigilance quests, TOD dailies, and mopping up WC keeps it from becoming too boring.

msrebel1972

I find the vigilance tasks so boring and the leveling so slow that I'd almost prefer poking my eyes out with a sharp stick! The progression is deadly for a GF since we don't have enough DPS to kill anything quickly. So killing 30 or 40 whatevers takes forever. I find it so deadly boring that I can only do it for an hour and I'm done in. At this rate, I'll never hit lvl 70 and forget about doing it on the alts. I'm seriously reconsidering my dedication to this game.

silverkelt

twilightwatchman wrote: »

XP from the Whispering Caverns is still better all the way up to L64 at least. Of course you miss out on gear drops so I wouldn't recommend skipping too much of the EE content that way. A combination of the Vigilance quests, TOD dailies, and mopping up WC keeps it from becoming too boring.

There is literally nothing you need from the vigilance quests, other then spinward...

you can buy rare blues on par with alliance almost.. for almost nothing.

You might lose out on a few r5 drops.

Im still PISSSED off that they moved the ToD dailies to 1k quests instead of 5k ones. forcing you to do these quests basically going forward.

If you had skipped whispering in the past, yes you can skip some of the early junk.

you can go to spinward at 67 give or take and hit 70 even without the double exp.

otherwise, do the daily elemental quests, the weekly tod ones to get half a level or so.

There at the moment isnt a good alternative to skip this, which is sad, they shouldve left the TOD quests for everyone to give us a alternative to this.