Astral Seal and Prism powers in Well of Dragons

promytheas

I'd like to think that the majority of DCs and OPs are smart/informed enough not to cause excess lag by using Astral Seal and Prism during dragon runs in Well of Dragons. However there is a minority that do, either due to ignorance, greed (maybe that;s the only way they can achieve Great Success) or most likely in order to get some attention by trolling/annoying others. In my book this could count as an abuse/exploit.

So either change the code in a way that these powers don't cause as much lag or just deactivate them during dragon runs. Maybe make dragons immune to them?

Just an idea

phoenix1021

That's not causing the lag, the exploits of clerics and rangers are. Better tell people to stop using those instead of telling them not to use normal powers.

daggon87

Astral Seal does not cause noticeable lag. Stop using your powers yourself, it will lessen the charge on the servers.

instynctive

Fortunately, the OP's ignorance regarding Astral Seal is not as commonly shared as it once was. I've substituted that other at-will for AS and still get lagged out of Heralds. I've stopped using at-wills altogether and still lag out of Heralds. In other places where the lag isn't so bad, I've used nothing BUT Astral Seal, and that has created no lag.

Pretty sure the Astral Seal lag thing was fixed like 4 or 5 months ago.

It's rather funny, really.. so many people complaining about lifesteal being nerfed.. guess what Astral Seal does? Heals someone every time they hit something.

cococya

Prism is a passive feat, you cannot expect people not to use it since it ticks automatically when using a daily.
Also, astral seal works fine and it causes no extra lag, that's just hearsay and silly rumors going around.

silverkelt

phoenix1021 wrote: »

That's not causing the lag, the exploits of clerics and rangers are. Better tell people to stop using those instead of telling them not to use normal powers.

What dc exploits, the ap bug gain via offhand has been fixed.. the rest of the AP gain, is actually real! One of the DC trees is a AP feat , one of its purposes is to restore AP at a higher rate.

promytheas

From experience the runs go a lot slower whenever i see the Astral Seal icon under the dragon health bar. I've seen that over and over again. When no Astral Seal icon is present we usually do 5 or 6 dragons easily, when it is we hardly do 3. On same pc and on 40 ppl instances every time. Kind of makes me think AS has something to do with the lag

daggon87

From experience, as a Cleric, it makes no difference if I use it or not.

aulduron

How about you stop inviting people into full instances instead?

instynctive

promytheas wrote: »

From experience the runs go a lot slower whenever i see the Astral Seal icon under the dragon health bar. I've seen that over and over again. When no Astral Seal icon is present we usually do 5 or 6 dragons easily, when it is we hardly do 3. On same pc and on 40 ppl instances every time. Kind of makes me think AS has something to do with the lag

You mean the big triangle with all the runic characters on it, right?

promytheas

instynctive wrote: »

You mean the big triangle with all the runic characters on it, right?

I mean the icon that when you hover your cursor over it, a tool tip appears saying "Astral Seal"

instynctive

Maybe spend less time hovering over things and more time fighting.

promytheas

I have time when AS lags the game. The icon looks like 2 greenish circles one inside the other, next time when you are lagging look for it m its easy to spot once you know which one it is. Sometimes the icon has a number 1, 2 or 3 over it's button right corner.

promytheas

It should be said that not all AS users cause lag, I believe it happens when "Burning Guidance" is used at the same time.

schweifer1982

promytheas wrote: »

I'd like to think that the majority of DCs and OPs are smart/informed enough not to cause excess lag by using Astral Seal and Prism during dragon runs in Well of Dragons. However there is a minority that do, either due to ignorance, greed (maybe that;s the only way they can achieve Great Success) or most likely in order to get some attention by trolling/annoying others. In my book this could count as an abuse/exploit.

So either change the code in a way that these powers don't cause as much lag or just deactivate them during dragon runs. Maybe make dragons immune to them?

Just an idea

About Prism i think its a bug cuz it shoud only effect PT members aslo VS AS you can prevent to use AS but you cannot prevent not to use pism its not a skill its a feat.

rabbinicus

promytheas wrote: »

It should be said that not all AS users cause lag, I believe it happens when "Burning Guidance" is used at the same time.

Nope. This hasn't been a problem since the first post-Tiamat patch. It's unfortunate that people keep spreading this misinformation, but this simply isn't the cause of your lag.

TL/DR version: "Sorry Mario, your princess is in another castle."

hypervoreian

i know that my view belongs to a tiny minority but i will say it:Sometimes what causes lag during heralds/tia(at least in mod5 when i run them) was not the astral seal att will:

But the Astral Shield in divinity mode.Astral shield in divinity mode messes with enchantements /feats and powers of other classes /toons.,That sometimes causes lag.

Not all the times but sometimes.I have notice again and again.The moment i see on the ground the astral shild in divinity mode ,weird things start happen.Sometimes extreme lag.The server actually does not register hits.

phoenix1021

silverkelt wrote: »

What dc exploits, the ap bug gain via offhand has been fixed.. the rest of the AP gain, is actually real! One of the DC trees is a AP feat , one of its purposes is to restore AP at a higher rate.

Last time I did the heralds with my guardian my daily was recharged instantly after using it, I could just use it again and again. I also saw wizards using ice knife like crazy. That was after that last patch. I don't know how it works, but there is definately something fishy still going on.

jharlis

schweifer1982 wrote: »

About Prism i think its a bug cuz it shoud only effect PT members aslo VS AS you can prevent to use AS but you cannot prevent not to use pism its not a skill its a feat.

You can actually, all you need to do is not use your daily.
Which is a shame, but well, for the sake of getting 5/5 heralds i can do that sacrifice.

angrysprite

promytheas wrote: »

I'd like to think that the majority of DCs and OPs are smart/informed enough not to cause excess lag by using ...

Ummm... Informed how? Consider that less than 10% of the player base ever even think to look at these forums. "Smart" how? Most bugs do not have pop-up alerts that tell you when you're doing something that is bug-related. Please correct me if I am mistaken in this regard.

Speaking of "informed/smart" enough: where do you get your authoritative information that Astral Seal when used in conjunction with anything else causes "lag" especially when 75% of most lag is at the user's end or between the user and game servers?

My point: whatever bugs or problems there are: it's not a good idea to blame other players for them at all. They just play wanting to have fun. They don't intend to screw things up for you. Because you are not that important to them. You are a nobody to them, just another player. And this is true about all of us.

promytheas wrote: »

So either change the code in a way that these powers don't cause as much lag or just deactivate them during dragon runs. Maybe make dragons immune to them?

This is the part of your comment that is spot-on and I cheer you on and stand with you firmly in this regard. Any bug, any problem with the game not working as it should be, anything that goes wrong with things is the *developers'* fault, not the players. It is the developers' responsibility to fix things, not the players. The players just want to play. We all need to remember that.

rinat114

When will people understand... Astral Seal DOES NOT cause lag. It however causes encounters NOT to happen. You have to press your encounter 3 times to make it take effect. It's not lag, it's sort of delay.

almondum

I'd like to think that the majority of DCs and OPs are smart/informed enough not to cause excess lag by using Astral Seal and Prism during dragon runs in Well of Dragons. However there is a minority that do, either due to ignorance, greed (maybe that;s the only way they can achieve Great Success) or most likely in order to get some attention by trolling/annoying others. In my book this could count as an abuse/exploit.

So either change the code in a way that these powers don't cause as much lag or just deactivate them during dragon runs. Maybe make dragons immune to them?

Just an idea

Astral Seal DOES NOT CAUSE LATENCY, it has been said and confirmed countless times by DEVS. I tested it aswell and it does NOT cause latency.
What might cause latency is the boon named Burning Guidance. Anyone who has Burning Guidance will add to the latency....cleric or not.

Please stop spreading lies, thank you.


Have fun everyone,
Almondum.

promytheas

I've already said that about the Burning Guidance, and someone already said that it is not actually the case.

It may not be the powers on their own that cause the lag, but their synergy with other powers/boons that does.

Either way its not what matters, whatever the reason behind the lag is, its a confirmed fact over hundreds of herald runs (I would know I've done my fair share), that whenever these powers are used (a DC using astral seal or a Paladin with the Prism feat using a daily) then the runs slow down SIGNIFICANTLY. Typically a group of 40 would take out 5 to 6 dragons when these powers are not used, as opposed to about 3 dragons when they are used.

So what do we do?

Do we hope that as a player community that we can come to an agreement that it is to everyone's best interest not to use these powers when running heralds? That's probably too optimistic ...

Another alternative would be to have these powers and synergies with other powers/boons fixed. That would be ideal and I am all for that, but realistically speaking do you see this happening any time soon?

Hence, my idea was somewhat of a quick-fix, make the dragons immune to AS.

As for Prism, I have no other suggestion other than to ask OPs not to use dailies if they have this feat.

I am not here to point fingers, just trying to find a viable solution, feel free to contribute

pancakeattax

promytheas wrote: »

So what do we do?

alyaakh

silverkelt wrote: »

What dc exploits, the ap bug gain via offhand has been fixed.. the rest of the AP gain, is actually real! One of the DC trees is a AP feat , one of its purposes is to restore AP at a higher rate.

Wasn't fixed at all. Have been in several matches where I kept getting hit by multiple dailies during duration of a single AS then finished off afterwards by same ppl spamming dailies.

odelle12

I would love to get an official reply on this from a moderator.

As a cleric I'm sick of being abused by randoms telling me how to play my character and its my fault that everyone else is lagging.

Please respond mods!

lilhamlet

If it IS burning guidance, than you'll want those healers to not heal. I'm sure that will do wonders for the run. In that same vein, can you Renegade CWs please stop using your capstone feats, because that might be causing us lag. [/sarcasm]

Telling people what powers to use and how to spec is asinine, especially without definitive proof that it is those powers that are causing the issues in the first place. Frankly, servers have been glitchy of late. Sitting at the campfire before the eSOT boss my party was rubberbanding everywhere.

There are plenty of errors in this game that need to be fixed by the developers if it's going to have any life left to it. Please don't be antagonistic toward other players and kill their experience just because you assume it's a power they are using. As well, maybe not going into a 25 player instance when the cap is supposed to be 20 might help... just a thought.

Unknown

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alkemist80

Prism is a feat. The only way to stop it is not to use your daily. Much easier to do as a healadin, we still get great success without using it. I don't know about protection though, if they need to use a daily to survive.

Either way the option is there. While it's not ideal, it can still be controlled. Knowing that multiple prisms cause the healing to loop and overload the server, I do not use my daily when running dragons. Hopefully this will be fixed on Thursday..

jharlis

alkemist80 wrote: »

Prism is a feat. The only way to stop it is not to use your daily. Much easier to do as a healadin, we still get great success without using it. I don't know about protection though, if they need to use a daily to survive.

Either way the option is there. While it's not ideal, it can still be controlled. Knowing that multiple prisms cause the healing to loop and overload the server, I do not use my daily when running dragons. Hopefully this will be fixed on Thursday..

Prot Pally here, i don't use my daily, great success everytime.

zevathon

Take a step back. Breath. Now say what you really want to say: *FIX* the lag.

I know we're trying to help figure out what's going on and certainly anyone running around with folks at 45 after the hour (unless you're in one of those crazy 1/2 hour TZs) knows what we're talking about... which actually begs the question: why aren't the devs/community managers weighing in here and telling us what's going on? The community does a lot of self policing and informing. I think some clarity on this subject would go a long way.

But I think it's also important to break down the issue too. There's more than one cause of lag. There's video lag. You can dial down your video to mitigate things with switches like /unlit 1. But please just fix this. Take the animation out until you can manage to not grind the player experience to a halt.

Then there's server lag. Symptomatically, this probably manifests as rubberbanding. This has seemed to be one of the big hot topics. I know some folks have renamed Neverwinter to Alwayslagging, but that's not accurate. I think it has to do with numbers in a zone. When a zone in Spinward is super laggy, try switching to a "fresh" zone. In the realm of big endian vs little endian Well of Dragons is not sized right for Heralds. Maybe it works when everyone is spread out or maybe some are in a lair.

However, here we find ourselves with 40 folks (good luck on getting 30 folks to not add anyone else... this isn't a guild running an raid, this is just a zone) who just can't run the dragons.

So, reduce the number of folks a zone can handle down to say 30. Reduce the dragons by 1/4 as well to reflect the change.

We all probably have some good ideas on how to get the game back to being fun, cohesively. It's hard to not be negative considering how awkward this module is. There are a lot of gamers here who've seen plenty of other games upgraded. I've only seen 1 worse. With all the criticism because of it, I get the impression that folks aren't being listened to, and who'd want to? They know what some of the big bleeding is, but the little stuff that could go a long way to adding some smoothing to the rough edges is being drowned out by a lot of kinda not happy players who cling on in the hopes that there will be improvements.