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Would removing AD from PVP dailies help improve match balance?
thestaggy
Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
I'll start by saying the 8k AD that can be earned from PVP is fairly useful. I am able to continually replace my choice of Glyphs without having to do any PVE content in order to earn the AD required. In the past I've been against this idea for the above reason.
However, last night was the final straw.
I had 4 PVP matches before I rage quit the game 2 minutes into my 4th match. The first PVP match was a pretty even 18-minute affair where we all knew what we were supposed to be doing. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th matches however were utterly ruined by PVE-specced players on my team that I assume are there to collect their AD.
Match 2 - Our TR goes to enemy node the rest of us hit mid. Good start. Then I see home being capped. I asked in party for our second TR to break off and stall it. He doesn't. I ask again. He doesn't. So I leave instead and begin to wear the enemy TR down. Lo and behold the 3 that were with me at mid suddenly appear on the node with me. I say in party chat that they must go away and head back to mid. No one listens. I leave and head back to mid. The TR kills all 3 and I am 3-manned down at Mid. I respawn, head back to mid and watch the 3 PVE heroes head back to home node and yes, die again to the TR while I die shortly after in another 3v1 on mid. I ask them to please listen and stop going to home node. They don't listen and for the next 12-minutes I watched the same 3 players die time and time again at home node. My good TR eventually gives up with me when he realises what the others are doing.
Match 3 - I go to mid, the other 4 go to our home node. I die quickly to a 5v1 assault at mid. The other 4 are quickly killed on their way to mid. I respawn and go to their home node, kill the guy trying to cap it and then watch my 4 teammates die again at our home node. I respawn but don't jump down and watch again as my 4 teammates go straight back to our home node and die. They do this for about 5-minutes before they finally realise it isn't working.
Match 4 - I go to mid, the other 4 go to our home node. I don't even bother fighting back against the 4 enemies that greet me at mid. I respwan, my allies quickly die. I watch all 4 of them respawn and go back to our home node. ESC, logout, quit.
One common theme; aside from the one TR in my 2nd match, none of the other 11 players in my last 3 matches were specced for PVP nor were they familiar with rudimentary PVP tactics (being baited into 3/4-manning our home node against a lone TR is a clear indication), telling me that these players are just getting their AD and in the process utterly ruining it for a genuine PVPer.
I also don't know if there is a language barrier in that most of these types of players do not respond to any feedback and tactics I offer, they flat out ignore me or chime in with ''n**b gf'' in party chat when I'm camping while they go 4v1 the TR at home.
Thoughts? Would the removal of AD from PVP improve the quality of matches. I am aware that this will also negatively impact queue times as well. Should AD reward be added to PVE daily lairs and mini-dungeons as an alternative? PVPers could easily get that AD if they need it but we won't have to deal with PVErs coming in to PVP and ruining it.
However, last night was the final straw.
I had 4 PVP matches before I rage quit the game 2 minutes into my 4th match. The first PVP match was a pretty even 18-minute affair where we all knew what we were supposed to be doing. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th matches however were utterly ruined by PVE-specced players on my team that I assume are there to collect their AD.
Match 2 - Our TR goes to enemy node the rest of us hit mid. Good start. Then I see home being capped. I asked in party for our second TR to break off and stall it. He doesn't. I ask again. He doesn't. So I leave instead and begin to wear the enemy TR down. Lo and behold the 3 that were with me at mid suddenly appear on the node with me. I say in party chat that they must go away and head back to mid. No one listens. I leave and head back to mid. The TR kills all 3 and I am 3-manned down at Mid. I respawn, head back to mid and watch the 3 PVE heroes head back to home node and yes, die again to the TR while I die shortly after in another 3v1 on mid. I ask them to please listen and stop going to home node. They don't listen and for the next 12-minutes I watched the same 3 players die time and time again at home node. My good TR eventually gives up with me when he realises what the others are doing.
Match 3 - I go to mid, the other 4 go to our home node. I die quickly to a 5v1 assault at mid. The other 4 are quickly killed on their way to mid. I respawn and go to their home node, kill the guy trying to cap it and then watch my 4 teammates die again at our home node. I respawn but don't jump down and watch again as my 4 teammates go straight back to our home node and die. They do this for about 5-minutes before they finally realise it isn't working.
Match 4 - I go to mid, the other 4 go to our home node. I don't even bother fighting back against the 4 enemies that greet me at mid. I respwan, my allies quickly die. I watch all 4 of them respawn and go back to our home node. ESC, logout, quit.
One common theme; aside from the one TR in my 2nd match, none of the other 11 players in my last 3 matches were specced for PVP nor were they familiar with rudimentary PVP tactics (being baited into 3/4-manning our home node against a lone TR is a clear indication), telling me that these players are just getting their AD and in the process utterly ruining it for a genuine PVPer.
I also don't know if there is a language barrier in that most of these types of players do not respond to any feedback and tactics I offer, they flat out ignore me or chime in with ''n**b gf'' in party chat when I'm camping while they go 4v1 the TR at home.
Thoughts? Would the removal of AD from PVP improve the quality of matches. I am aware that this will also negatively impact queue times as well. Should AD reward be added to PVE daily lairs and mini-dungeons as an alternative? PVPers could easily get that AD if they need it but we won't have to deal with PVErs coming in to PVP and ruining it.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Post edited by thestaggy on
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The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
More players = more options for MM system to create a match where all players have similar gear.
Less players = MM system need to split players in to 2 groups where in best case scenario each team will have some very well geared players and some undergeared 1 shot materials. In worst case scenario like i've seen in mod5, one team will be full of 25k GS while other will have players from 6 to 15k GS max.
Now, why would anybody bother queueing for a pvp match where you not only get 0 rewards but you cant even leave your respawn without getting 1 shoted?
you forgot to add and can ban their computers for up to 24 hours and infests it with viruses.
my point was it would never be put into the game and is unreasonable in general.
Not for the kind of people who pre mod6 were queuing for pvp with level 40 quest greens.
people still do that in mod 6 XD
PVP-spec does indeed exist: Tenacity, ability rolls and gear that favour defense over offense.
I get that removing AD/rewards will lower the population, but using my example (and I know many others have experienced this in PVP) we are talking about quantity and not quality with the rewards in place. I managed 4 PVP matches in an hour and 3 of those matches had me camping within 5 minutes and one of them caused me to end my gaming for the night out of sheer frustration.
GG can mask deficiencies somewhat, but in Domination two silly players will severely hamper you and three will lose the match.
Another alternative:
With GG permanently available, its faster queue times and its more forgiving nature, Domination should now have an old Kessel's style pre-requisite to entry. Like Kessel's required 'x' amount of Black Ice resistance to enter, Domination should require 'x' amount of tenacity above our base stat before you can queue. Players can go in to GG and earn glory which they can then use to gear up and enter Domination.
I'm pretty sure that winning a GG match count towards your daily Battlemaster ''quest'' of winning a PVP match.
10/10 would read again, DEVS GET ON IT
I'll drink for that.
Steel and Magic
They might claim that you are ruining THEIR PVP experience by being placed on a team with a domineering "pro PVPer" who isn't a team player and who wants to order them around.
Instead of demanding that they follow your strategy, why not adapt your strategy to match with the strengths and weaknesses of the team that you have? There is no single, uniquely correct strategy you know.
For instances: in the times that I do bring my CW into PVP matches, it is often the case that I am on teams where the TRs don't do any backcapping and instead just chase kills. So I take my CW and backcap the whole match. Not ideal, but it is better than no back-capping at all.
And besides, if you PUG, you get the PUG experience.
if 3 are constantly occupied by 1 there is no winning strategy around
thats what i do too, even as GF, if i jump alone, i go to the stairs and home caping too. but reality these starts predicted you lose this match. if you are experienced, you know that nearly 90% lost probability
I think unless this game builds up more interested toons on all gear and skill levels for PVP, the matchmaking and leaver penalty have to go. It was a good idea by the time it was introduced, but doesn't really fit today's playerbase any more.
match 2....i'm pretty sure this a result of the horrible fact that there are so many players that don't speak english...and so end up looking/playing like brainless ******s
it really is not so much a problem of pvers/ad go getters, it's a problem with the language/culture barrier imo
all your matches really, they sound like 99% of my pvp experience, and it's always because they don't speak english, as soon as i see "ajuda!" or the other language "help me"s, i know the match is pretty much over, there will be no communication and they will (most likely) play like braindead idiots
pvp finally needs proper rewards for playing, this attract more players, which make better matchmaking. really angry nobody at cryptic adress it yet. even at level up biggest module. dont sit on gear enchantment and players will show up
On the other hand, it's hard not to think poorly of someone queueing for max lvl pvp with the lvl 38-ish GF sword from helm's hold (probably because it's pretty) with lvl 40 to 50 greens as "gear". There should be some iLevel requirements for pvp. Definitely not high but people should understand that they have to kill monsters and see what drops on the ground when they level up their characters.
Now that there's zero requirements on levelling dungeons though, there should be less pressure on the pvp queues, since it's not the only "no requirements" queue anymore. That's a good start but levelling gear from the latest zones should also be a requirement.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?881-PvE-Discussion
I have been in that position. I've ended up in matches with players from the top-tier PVP guilds and I have listened to what they say. If what you are doing has failed for 12-minutes why would you not finally listen to what someone else has been saying?
There may be many strategies, but 3v1 at home is not one of those. That leaves 2 players to contest the other two nodes against superior numbers and that just isn't viable unless those two players can quickly and easily overcome superior numbers.
And I understand what PUGGING means, I'm just looking at ways to minimise the frustration. I don't want to watch 3 of my allies die at home for 12-minutes chasing a shadow and I'm pretty sure these players don't want to deal with an increasingly agitated party member.
Yes, at 70 you get a daily glory bonus and your seal.
Please don't remove the AD for running the daily. I REALLY NEED them!!!
THat said--my 1st time into a match I saw quickly what was going on. 3 node=2 nodes means victory. I think a toon should get points for time sitting on/holding a node even if not fighting. I'm perfectly willing to guard a node with my GF (especially center) if the rest of the team is going after another one---or two. IMHO--the whole team chasing after the same 1 node usually results in a loss. Yes it means sometimes I fight less but it also means the other team can't waltz in a cap without me in their way. I'm willing to take 1 (or5) for the team if it leads to victory. However, it also means I sacrifice honor points gained because I'm playing defense and see less combat.
Not getting any points for doing what my pvp experience from other MMO's has taught me seems rather--well--it promotes flailing around the map rather than actually achieving the objectives. Capturing nodes is great honor. Holding them even without combat should give some as well.
Again--please don't take away the daily AD bonus. This Newbie needs cash LOL! Instead--how about at the end of a match, the winning team gets 1/10 of his/her score as an AD bonus. This "should" make players think about winning as much as killing in the matches. Maybe it would result in a few players actually thinking about how to WIN rather than just how to fight--and lose.
Thoughts of this newbie...
Twinkle Toes
scumbags would find a way to exploit this as much as they can