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Forfeit option would fix dom pvp
overdriver13
Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
Suggestions:
So long as the score from both teams does not yet add up to 1000, either team should be allowed a forfeit vote, requiring a 3/5 majority of a forfeiting teams members, to work.
Upon Forfeiting a match all players are despawned from the map, it is neither a win or loss for either team, the match-stats are erased and any DC'd player is not given the leaver penalty.
A player would have a limited number of times they could vote for a forfeit per day, and this number would go down as they climbed the leaderboard. Something like bottom 25% gets 4, lower middle 25% gets 3, upper middle 25% gets 2, and the top 25% would only get one.
I think this would go a long way towards increasing the quality of pvp. You know within 1000 collective points if you are getting crushed and cannot win.
It would lessen the incentive to make troll comps because when another team sees 5 dc's (or whatever) in the other party they can just forfeit right away. It would give much stronger teams an incentive to be honorable in victory and allow the other team to cap and so on. "We're going to win but please don't forfeit, we will let you trade caps".
Was in a pug today where any of the players on my team could kill three from the other and it was just straight out buggery for the other team. I asked in party chat to let them cap. One of my team mates said the weak deserve no mercy. So I said in zone chat that its only honorable to let the other team cap in roflstomp. No reply, but my tea,m then generally let the red team trade caps.
Increasing sportsmanship would go a long way to making domination pvp more enjoyable for casual players, and a forfeit option would definitely give stronger players incentive to be as honorable as possible while winning.
So long as the score from both teams does not yet add up to 1000, either team should be allowed a forfeit vote, requiring a 3/5 majority of a forfeiting teams members, to work.
Upon Forfeiting a match all players are despawned from the map, it is neither a win or loss for either team, the match-stats are erased and any DC'd player is not given the leaver penalty.
A player would have a limited number of times they could vote for a forfeit per day, and this number would go down as they climbed the leaderboard. Something like bottom 25% gets 4, lower middle 25% gets 3, upper middle 25% gets 2, and the top 25% would only get one.
I think this would go a long way towards increasing the quality of pvp. You know within 1000 collective points if you are getting crushed and cannot win.
It would lessen the incentive to make troll comps because when another team sees 5 dc's (or whatever) in the other party they can just forfeit right away. It would give much stronger teams an incentive to be honorable in victory and allow the other team to cap and so on. "We're going to win but please don't forfeit, we will let you trade caps".
Was in a pug today where any of the players on my team could kill three from the other and it was just straight out buggery for the other team. I asked in party chat to let them cap. One of my team mates said the weak deserve no mercy. So I said in zone chat that its only honorable to let the other team cap in roflstomp. No reply, but my tea,m then generally let the red team trade caps.
Increasing sportsmanship would go a long way to making domination pvp more enjoyable for casual players, and a forfeit option would definitely give stronger players incentive to be as honorable as possible while winning.
Post edited by overdriver13 on
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Comments
I think for the overgeared team, having 1/4th a match not count is less harmful to pvp than having undergeared teams sit through a match.
A forfeit option is essentially player created matchmaking. It would eliminate lop sided matches and make the wins mean more than tromping people with incredibly poor gear.
Why do you want your wins to be meaningless in such a way? Don't be afraid of the idea of wins meaning you actually had to compete. That is what I mean, I think it would make matches actually mean something. You win, you won against a fairly equal opponent. You lose and you lost to a fairly equal opponent.
And I think one thing you might be missing here is that when the leaderboard was actually a thing, winning against a bad team was worse than not playing at all. The reason I don't want people to be able to cancel a match halfway through is not because I want wins against undergeared players, its because I want to get my PVP daily done without having to spend 4 hours in the game.
I dunno man, I find matches where my team wins 1000-20 pretty boring. I suggested a 1000 point total so competitive matches aren't forfeited by the losing team. Maybe a three minute time limit would be better.
I just don't get the positives of absolutely crushing totally inferior teams. I actually like competition and it is pretty obvious within a minute or two from the start of the match if a team is just there to get humiliated by the other team or if they are there to compete. Might as well call it humiliation instead of domination without some soft touch for the casual or newer players.
I want the pvp community to grow, not shrink or be marginalized as the players of some broken side game. You do realize that most people feel that domination pvp is a broken side game, right? Whether or not they like it. I can't see wanting to keep it that way.
A forfeit is a waste of not just time, but energy. A forfeit will screw the other team, and your teammates, more than you. I believe that putting it to a vote would be a good concept.
Rage-quitting is a big 4Q to the team members who will not leave because we are out-gunned. I have realized from very early on, that my team was screwed by recognizing names. 2 of our teammates quit after they died once... at 1 minute into the match... that has happened more than once
Quitting penalizes you... a forfeit is just a different way to package the rage-quit.
Also, when a team is overly dominant and NOT looking to allow for a challenge... they will actually get much fewer glory for the win... than they would if it was a 1000 to 400 match. Does allowing your opponents gathering some glory and dignity from their loss say that you suck at PvP? Nope... it does show that you are human. The win is guaranteed to happen, your gear and dominance will make it so.
A wolf will never over-hunt an area because they live in balance with their surroundings. Your ego will not be scratched by allowing some "pity caps".
so you want to refuse to accept their surrender and force them out of spawn where you will stomp them repeatedly. classy
lolwut?
"Ooh? You going to win? Nah - we going to forfeit. So be nice my little ***** and gimme all the trade caps I want."
Did you ever think about the fact that there are people playing pvp not for the fricking glory but for the pvp?
No, but my time.
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I responded to a vague response with a vague response. What else am I going to say to "it just puts control of the game into the hands of losers?". Don't get salty, just explain how not having a forfeit option is good for competition and how having it is bad for competition.
It is really simple: People see they cannot win a match early on, they forfeit. How is that not good for competition?
The leaver penalty sucks because you get hit with it for very short duration disconnects which cannot be helped. If they would fix that part of it- give you 60 seconds to log back onto the game- the leaver penalty is a good thing. Without it, there is more incentive for people to just rage quit.
The thing is, there is no reason for the enemy to accept the surrender.
You don't get to take away another teams win if you forfeit, what you are describing is not forfeiting, it's taking your ball and going home to punish everyone because you are mad about losing, and it absolutely would be abused. If you decide you can't win and want to give up you should not get to cancel the results of the match. What you are saying is that you don't want to compete, you want to quit to deny people who beat you their rewards, if you think that is good for competition I don't know what to tell you.
Sure there is, if I already had my dailies done and the other team was sitting in the spawn I would absolutely accept there surrender so I could get in another match sooner, but that's because I don't need glory anymore. Most people want glory though and the losing team should not get to decide whether or not they get it.
You are already wasting time during a match while by watching the OWNED PuG members dance on the graveyard. Why not let them collect something for their wasted time? It cannot be the desire to develop your skills because you will never get better by decimating weaker opponents... fighting stronger opponents develops skill. The easy button does nothing but stroke the ego.
I don't get how people get so upset by the idea of a vastly undergeared team forfeiting at the beginning of a match. It is like some folks have found the perfect pay to win game and are enraged when anyone makes a suggestion in favor of actual competitive matches.
People might as well say, "Listen kid, I spent a few gran on this game to feel better about myself stomping the **** out of free players or those who spent less money than me. I'll be damned if this thing starts to resemble actual competition and I wasted that money!"
Nah, I have been really clear on what I have been saying. The common domination blowouts aren't one team beating another, it is just a ritual of humiliation and you know it. 1000-26 score is not a win. If you were a mma fighter would you kick the **** out of a teenager because somehow the game is so ****ed up it allows kids into matches, or would you let them just forfeit immediately?
I said in the case of early obvious blowouts people should be allowed to forfeit. People who really think that absolute blowouts are true wins have psychological problems well beyond the scope of this discussion.
Good luck with that, and flame the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of me, I don't care. I can't say anything more than that to advocate a system of regular blowouts is simply ****ed up. That is all there is to it.
You misunderstand. The losing team only gets to decide to forfeit if
1. IT IS A CLEAR BLOWOUT AND THAT CANNOT CAP PERIOD.
and
2. IT IS EARLY IN THE MATCH.
Why do you guys enjoy the blowout so much? If you do not than suggest some alternate ideas to a forfeit. Can;t just say, "well that is what the game is too bad"....it means you must love the system as it is now.
That is sick.
Unless cryptic decides that you would get Glory from the other team forfeiting... they could wait until the very end of the match after your team destroyed them...
Hypothetically, collecting 200 points max, for the towers, and maybe 3 kills max for one of the people on your team. You will get very little glory for any of that. That would seriously waste a lot of people's time and energy.
I have seen that the harder you work and the more you do in a match... the higher the glory at the end.
I think it would be easier for better-geared players to take it easy accept the win and allow some semblance of balance in an area of imbalance. I know that stomps on the playing styles that have been followed for years, but then again... Mod 6 has jacked tht up all over.
Maybe, just maybe, that was Cryptic's idea to balance PvP. You want the maximum glory for PvP? Have honor and awareness that everyone is there for the same reasons.
Maybe it is a simple thought... if you choose to be overly aggresive you will pay the price, s you would if you were not aggresive one bit.
Ok, that makes sense. Ya, I am not for a game being anything like close or even 5 minutes into it and one team says, "nah forfeit". I mean if it is a super clear blowout within the first three minutes the losing team can forfeit.
I am full on aggressive in pvp and delight in exposing the weakness of fail builds and playstyles. I am also happy when the weakness is how I play or build is exposed to me. You learn and get better.
That also means that if another team is so shell shocked that they won't leave spawn, they should be able to forfeit and I should be able to find another match asap. I do the cap trading two step dance because I don't get off on shoving a clearly beaten opponents face in the dirt. Cap trading is not pvp. Blow outs are not pvp.
I would be quite happy to accept a forfeit as a member of a winning team. To sweeten that pot an additional sat of "number of times surrendered to" could be there, though it should be meaningless where leaderboard standing is concerned and times one has forfeited should not be listed.
reward based on personal performance, right now players get too penalized if their team loses even if they played good. What you can give is a 150 extra glory to winning team.
Should be like
1st--->600 glory
2nd--->550 glory
3rd--->500 glory
4th--->450 glory
5th--->400 glory
6th--->350 glory
7th--->300 glory
8th--->250 glory
9th--->200 glory
10th--->150 glory
Then
+100 to player with most points capped
+100 to player with most revived mates
+100 to longest time defending on node
to encourage good domination play
reduced glory gain from kills to 10 glory
auto-scramble during match. If the score difference get past 200 points, the game takes the best player from winning side and switches the worst player of losing side with him. Nodes cleared, teams back to base, then restart from that point. If difference gets over 300 points, another scramble and so on.
Glory gain is linked too much to who wins and with matchmaking not working well, it's obvious why players leave. Waste of time 10-15 minutes for like 150 glory if your team loses badly, and a puny 250-350 at best if you played wonderfully, ended up 1st but your team lost.
If players know that
a) they get a proportional reward to how they played
b) clearly unbalanced games get "adjusted" automatically so both sides can fight back and have fun
we have less leavers and overall better PvP environment.
Note: i penalized kills cause that actually would PUNISH selfish kill-hungry players and reward true domination play (capping node, defending points, helping mates).
What if no one uses it and wastes your time anyways?
I believe that my suggestion to make a more balanced match is for both sides to tone the aggression down... cap and fight. I had been in a 20v20 GG where both sides rarely fought or killed each other. We all just traveled in the same direction and capped what one or 2 towers at a time. There was always 1 tower between us.
Now we can play that way... as another option.
I myself love when a match lasts 20 minutes, I have 5 kills and 5k points... the score being 1000 to 500. I, also, dislike when I have been able to camp within 5 minutes. I would much rather fight and earn my glory. I do not like being gang-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> by 5 grandmasters because I am the only one brave/stupid enough to leave the graveyard.
I am sure that we have ALL had that experience...
A reply to Pando's post...
I have been 1st, 2nd and 3rd after losing a match... because I cap a lot. Because my team lost I will get almost nothing for my efforts. I feel that being in the top 5 and losing should be an achievement that gives us a bonus.
So I actually like your idea.
PvP is catharsis to many. Really the action combat is this games #1 selling point. It is weak in every other single area. I can't see ever tuning the aggression down before an enemy yields.