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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › Player Feedback (PC)

Invocation now a painful process

kurtb88kurtb88 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 597 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
Invoking for me and my alts used to be a simple matter. All I need to do was Invoke once a day to earn the coin. Now I must invoke something like seven times a day on each character spread over many hours, meaning I must be online for hours, or login many times a day just to get the invoking done.

Anyone else think this is now a painful process?
Post edited by kurtb88 on
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Comments

  • vasdamasvasdamas Member Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    How many chars have you got? I've got 11 and think I am going to give up on invoking.
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  • karakla1karakla1 Member Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    You can still invocate once per day. It only takes a bit longer if you not get the last coin after 4 hours.
    The new system clearly benefits player with less characters.
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    Platypus wielding a giant hammer, your argument is invalild!
  • darkstarcrashdarkstarcrash Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    You can still just log in once a day for the coins, since they are rewards for the first invocation, but the AD rewards are back-loaded to encourage staying in the game longer.
  • raistlinmajere00raistlinmajere00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    darkstarcrash wrote: »
    You can still just log in once a day for the coins, since they are rewards for the first invocation, but the AD rewards are back-loaded to encourage staying in the game longer.

    If they wanna encourage staying in game longer, they should just fix the **** log in issue.
    image
  • ysil6969ysil6969 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    It's probably designed to stop people from jumping into the game on 25 characters and making quick AD. Rewards you for actually playing the game and not just alt jumping.
  • koalazebraiikoalazebraii Member Posts: 108 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    50 characters, RIP to invoking for me
  • amenephisamenephis Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'd lay you odds it was intended to deflate the economy some more, along with several other changes they made and recent things like the Alchemy event. Alongside this, it was probably proposed as another anti-botting measure, which is odd first of all since as we all know THERE ARE NO BOTS IN NEVERWINTER I WOULDN'T DREAM OF IMPLYING OTHERWISE MY BENEFICENT OVERLORDS. That is to say, a system put into place spreading rewards out over a greater period of time to make things less frontloaded, but in actuality rewards players who can simply stand in one spot for a prolonged period of time reaping rewards for doing nothing without getting bored. If there were bots in the game, and there aren't of course, but if there were, this system would directly benefit them while punishing the entire rest of the playerbase.
  • kurtb88kurtb88 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 597 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    vasdamas wrote: »
    How many chars have you got? I've got 11 and think I am going to give up on invoking.

    Seven, eight if I roll a pally.
  • blorkvonlubbblorkvonlubb Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I like the new process. You can still get your coins the first time you invoke, but you can't get the second unless you follow the entire path. I'll just get the first coin for all my alts and get the second on my main. That seems reasonable.
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,376 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    here my copy from other invoke topic
    i have 3 alts, i played my main, i used invoke whenever i could and not busy, but my 2 other alts just had invoke reset.

    i dont like this new invoke format, it seem "forced" to play and stay log for 5-6 hours and my doctor warned me not to exceed 2 hours without breaktimes and go out walking.
    it is no longer alt-friendly since Shandalar, Dread, and Icewind, dragon made them unplayable for alts who trying catching up with main character, now i cant get that artifact that required 2 alts with set of boons to unlock.

    i agreed with you, it shouldnt reset within few hours, should had reset once in 24 hours timer if not used.

    this was on http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?878981-Invocation-is-broken
  • wlobebwlobeb Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Invocation process is BROKEN now. (resets EVERY hour)

    From Patch Notes:

    "The Invocation day resets when daily quests reset, allowing players to begin Invoking anew."
  • thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    It is a train wreck.

    Mod 6 is a deathblow to the alt.

    I used to log in, invoke all my characters then select the character I wanted to play with.
    PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
  • rhoriangelusrhoriangelus Member Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I was bothered by it, but I've gotten my rhythm down. I use a scandinavian keyboard, so I bound invoke to ø and change character to æ. Invocation is instant now (no more waiting for the animation to complete) and they removed the 15 second wait between switching characters so I can quickly hit ø twice, then æ to switch to the next one, it only takes me a couple of minutes to invoke 30 characters - though I can't use arrow keys at the character selection screen anymore, which slows me down a little.

    Time will tell if I actually have the discipline to invoke everyone six times a day.

    HOWEVER.

    I really think this system should be rethought. It makes botting more rewarding than actually playing, and automating the process of invocation x6 would be INCREDIBLY easy.
  • isoplethisopleth Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    This new invoking method encourages very unhealthy behavior and I am not going to play (or let my family play) any game that doesn't care about our well being. I am so not giving myself a blood clot for Neverwinter.
  • ninatheaxeninatheaxe Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rhoriangelus wrote: »
    <snip> and automating the process of invocation x6 would be INCREDIBLY easy.


    Yeah, but it should be equally easy to detect the bots. Anyone who manages to reach that final tier of invoking on more than one toon on more than one day is highly likely to be cheating ;p
  • rhoriangelusrhoriangelus Member Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ninatheaxe wrote: »
    Yeah, but it should be equally easy to detect the bots. Anyone who manages to reach that final tier of invoking on more than one toon on more than one day is highly likely to be cheating ;p

    You can't just assume that, though. There will be enough people doing this legitimately on multiple toons that you can't punish people based on that alone. Unfortunately, if someone is running an automation that emulates keyboard/mouse input, how are they going to detect that? This is why profession bots have been so hard to combat.
  • tagnusironsordtagnusironsord Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    In my opinion, the 'new' invocation system is punative to the players. I only have 5 characters (one too new to invoke), but getting them through the system is a slow, painful process now.

    So, please devs, can we (the players, who have supported you for a very long time) have another kick in the crotch? The first one will only drive away some of the player base. Here, use my steel-toe work shoes, just to make it feel really good.
    image
  • tinead51tinead51 Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The final straw that broke the camels back for me. Time to go methinks, lamest Mod so far, so many fubars it's a joke.

    I played this game for a reason, now I dont, enjoy whats left of this so called MMO...
  • therealairheadtherealairhead Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    New system appears to be a strike against people with ALTs... doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not a 'whale', but I've thrown some money at the game to get ALTs (got max toons for every class...was interesting... FUN actually). I might play a few of them over time, but crafting and invoking is pretty much all they are good for. Some people have 20+ toons in my guild.

    So the question is, why? Why would the devs change a mechanic that goes against PAYERS, because the only way people have all these toons is because they've spent money. I can understand game changes that 'entice' and/or possibly even 'force' people to want to shell out some money. This change can do nothing but entice people NOT to shell out money for alts... makes no sense to me. Have the owners shorted their own stock?
  • rhoriangelusrhoriangelus Member Posts: 703 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    therealairhead wrote: »
    So the question is, why?

    I think they wanted to give people more incentive to actually PLAY the game for longer, rather than logging on, invoking, logging off, they're requiring us to invoke spaced out over four hours. They're trying to encourage people to play FOUR HOURS a day, and as isopleth said that absolutely is an unhealthy habit.

    At least the coins no longer disappear if you don't invoke though, so... yay?
  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Invoke wasn't broken, and it didn't need to be "fixed".

    Why not tend to other known bugs that have been around forever with the promises to get to and fix.. or Guild Strongholds..? Or any of the other messed up things that needed redoing?
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  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    therealairhead wrote: »
    New system appears to be a strike against people with ALTs... doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not a 'whale', but I've thrown some money at the game to get ALTs (got max toons for every class...was interesting... FUN actually). I might play a few of them over time, but crafting and invoking is pretty much all they are good for. Some people have 20+ toons in my guild.

    So the question is, why? Why would the devs change a mechanic that goes against PAYERS, because the only way people have all these toons is because they've spent money. I can understand game changes that 'entice' and/or possibly even 'force' people to want to shell out some money. This change can do nothing but entice people NOT to shell out money for alts... makes no sense to me. Have the owners shorted their own stock?

    Comeon the entire alt army show is broken beyond beliefs, and i am litteraly amazed that they havent nerfed it further into the ground than changing the invoking system a Little bit, and making destroy enemy camp take 16 hours instead of 12!
    I personaly have 8 alts at lvl 20 leadership atm, and i havent spend a dime on this game in ages, and have absolutely no reason to do so, as long as i can generate that much ad from leadership... So yeah i am expecting further nerfs to this, and well hate to say it, but it is warranted...
  • therealairheadtherealairhead Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rhoriangelus wrote: »
    I think they wanted to give people more incentive to actually PLAY the game for longer, rather than logging on, invoking, logging off, they're requiring us to invoke spaced out over four hours. They're trying to encourage people to play FOUR HOURS a day, and as isopleth that absolutely is an unhealthy habit.

    At least the coins no longer disappear if you don't invoke though, so... yay?

    hehe... well, that theory makes even less sense to me. How does that make more money? nah...

    Actually, I could 'envision' some kind of Hegelian plan here... perhaps they let this new invocation method run along for some period of time (like 2-4 weeks), then introduce a ZEN item that let's you get all 7 daily invocations with a single daily click... that would make sense.
    Otherwise, hard to see how this change increases revenue as it stands now...
  • therealairheadtherealairhead Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    djoffer1 wrote: »
    Comeon the entire alt army show is broken beyond beliefs, and i am litteraly amazed that they havent nerfed it further into the ground than changing the invoking system a Little bit, and making destroy enemy camp take 16 hours instead of 12!
    I personaly have 8 alts at lvl 20 leadership atm, and i havent spend a dime on this game in ages, and have absolutely no reason to do so, as long as i can generate that much ad from leadership... So yeah i am expecting further nerfs to this, and well hate to say it, but it is warranted...

    hmm... so many wrong ideas here...
    If you have a f2p game, the whole goal is to entice people to pay... to catch 'whales'. You (and I) or not whales. I've spent 40 bucks, 10/mo is what I've allotted to this game, been playing since Christmas, will 'never' spend more than that, and worst case (from their point of view) will eventually just not play anymore. Our opinions of what is and what is not 'broken' is IRRELEVANT. The only votes that matter are the players who pay. Without money, game will die. f2p model just brings a lot more people in to play, which is cool (small pop MMOs are dead MMOs). Nerfing things that go against payers makes no sense; unless like I said above, they intend to follow it up with some pay-for-ease zen item...

    EDIT: 'irrelevant' may be a little overstated. f2p is actually a balancing act between no-pay players to keep up population, and the payers. They really need both. Got to make the no-pay players feel like it's 'fair', while at the same time, giving 'preference' to payers. Perhaps 'less-important' is a better term than 'irrelevant'...
  • rschragerrschrager Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Hrm... I get why people are upset by these changes - it's because they're losing something they once had, but I tend to look at it from the other side; this game has always provided something I've never had access to in any other games I've played (and I've played several), and it's been abused, so it was removed.

    This is the only game I'm aware of that rewards you for simply logging in. I don't see it as punishing someone with a bunch of alts, unless your gripe is that you can't just roll thru them one after another pushing ctrl-I on your keyboard and getting a prize. There's nothing associated with this change that prevents you from actually playing them - only from accumulating rewards from doing nothing. I'm ok with that... sorry to those who aren't.
  • translucentwolftranslucentwolf Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    therealairhead wrote: »
    hmm... so many wrong ideas here...
    If you have a f2p game, the whole goal is to entice people to pay... to catch 'whales'. You (and I) or not whales. I've spent 40 bucks, 10/mo is what I've allotted to this game, been playing since Christmas, will 'never' spend more than that, and worst case (from their point of view) will eventually just not play anymore. Our opinions of what is and what is not 'broken' is IRRELEVANT. The only votes that matter are the players who pay. Without money, game will die. f2p model just brings a lot more people in to play, which is cool (small pop MMOs are dead MMOs). Nerfing things that go against payers makes no sense; unless like I said above, they intend to follow it up with some pay-for-ease zen item...

    EDIT: 'irrelevant' may be a little overstated. f2p is actually a balancing act between no-pay players to keep up population, and the payers. They really need both. Got to make the no-pay players feel like it's 'fair', while at the same time, giving 'preference' to payers. Perhaps 'less-important' is a better term than 'irrelevant'...

    You're the one with the wrong idea here. Involking for AD and Leadership for AD are what's preventing zen purchase. Why would you bother buying zen ( being a 'whale' ) when you can just... get it free by clicking around on your leadership army for 15 min / day?

    If they want to boost zen sales, they need to eliminate leadership, period.
  • djoffer1djoffer1 Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    therealairhead wrote: »
    hmm... so many wrong ideas here...
    If you have a f2p game, the whole goal is to entice people to pay... to catch 'whales'. You (and I) or not whales. I've spent 40 bucks, 10/mo is what I've allotted to this game, been playing since Christmas, will 'never' spend more than that, and worst case (from their point of view) will eventually just not play anymore. Our opinions of what is and what is not 'broken' is IRRELEVANT. The only votes that matter are the players who pay. Without money, game will die. f2p model just brings a lot more people in to play, which is cool (small pop MMOs are dead MMOs). Nerfing things that go against payers makes no sense; unless like I said above, they intend to follow it up with some pay-for-ease zen item...

    EDIT: 'irrelevant' may be a little overstated. f2p is actually a balancing act between no-pay players to keep up population, and the payers. They really need both. Got to make the no-pay players feel like it's 'fair', while at the same time, giving 'preference' to payers. Perhaps 'less-important' is a better term than 'irrelevant'...

    My point is, the first 6 months of this game i spend around 300 bucks, after i have gotten my leadership farm up and running(and i know a lot of players, have 20-30 leadership toons) i havent spend a singel buck on the game, and neither will i since my 8 leadership toons generate more than enough free ad for me to buy what ever i want for my main. And yes that is obviously a problem for a F2P game.
  • tinead51tinead51 Member Posts: 305 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    djoffer1 wrote: »
    My point is, the first 6 months of this game i spend around 300 bucks, after i have gotten my leadership farm up and running(and i know a lot of players, have 20-30 leadership toons) i havent spend a singel buck on the game, and neither will i since my 8 leadership toons generate more than enough free ad for me to buy what ever i want for my main. And yes that is obviously a problem for a F2P game.

    Good luck after this new Mod with your leadership tasks, lol, most of us have lives away from this time gated <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
  • doriangreighdoriangreigh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 707 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    rhoriangelus wrote: »
    I think they wanted to give people more incentive to actually PLAY the game for longer, rather than logging on, invoking, logging off, they're requiring us to invoke spaced out over four hours. They're trying to encourage people to play FOUR HOURS a day, and as isopleth that absolutely is an unhealthy habit.

    At least the coins no longer disappear if you don't invoke though, so... yay?

    Playing 4 hours a day is against the American Medical Associations recommended time, for tv and computers, it is irresponsible for devs in general to make games that encourages more time playing than is healthy.
  • therealairheadtherealairhead Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    translucentwolf wrote: »
    You're the one with the wrong idea here. Involking for AD and Leadership for AD are what's preventing zen purchase. Why would you bother buying zen ( being a 'whale' ) when you can just... get it free by clicking around on your leadership army for 15 min / day?

    If they want to boost zen sales, they need to eliminate leadership, period.

    That makes sense. good point. (Well, with leadership they at least get 50-100 to 'build' this leadership army. So leadership is sort of a "hey, let's AT LEAST get people to spend enough to build a leadership army...at a minimum" kind of thing)
    EDIT: I agree with you, but i thought we were talking about Invocation?
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